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Steve Jobs Suggests Blu-ray Not Coming to Mac Anytime Soon

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I can't see Apple ever putting a Blu-Ray drive in a Mac. Physical media has peaked in the market. Blu Ray was meant to be a natural progression from DVD, yet several years on DVD sales still account for 75% of market share of physical media. DVD itself has been in decline for the last 4 years. In the 1st Quarter of 2011 physical sales in the DVD market have dropped 19% and high street rental fell by 36% year on year (UK stats).

I understand that a minority of people care about a Blu-Ray drive in the Mac, but Apple has never focused on the minority of people (take a look at Final Cut Pro X). The lack of a Blu Ray drive is not hurting Mac sales so clearly the majority of people don't care. Apple likes to set trends not follow them, and I just can't see it take a step back and invest in physical media as the market is now moving to digital downloads.

If you want Blu Ray get a PC or a dedicated player but I just can't see Apple ever putting one in a Mac now.
 
James Craner said:
I can't see Apple ever putting a Blu-Ray drive in a Mac. Physical media has peaked in the market. Blu Ray was meant to be a natural progression from DVD, yet several years on DVD sales still account for 75% of market share of physical media. DVD itself has been in decline for the last 4 years. In the 1st Quarter of 2011 physical sales in the DVD market have dropped 19% and high street rental fell by 36% year on year (UK stats).

I understand that a minority of people care about a Blu-Ray drive in the Mac, but Apple has never focused on the minority of people (take a look at Final Cut Pro X). The lack of a Blu Ray drive is not hurting Mac sales so clearly the majority of people don't care. Apple likes to set trends not follow them, and I just can't see it take a step back and invest in physical media as the market is now moving to digital downloads.

If you want Blu Ray get a PC or a dedicated player but I just can't see Apple ever putting one in a Mac now.
Click to expand...

The problem is that what Apple calls "HD" :rolleyes: downloads are really compressed garbage. Try watching on a 52" or larger TV and you can really see it. There is a reason Blu-Ray discs hold 50 GB of data.

Apple has made a lot of money selling people crap - like 128 bit MP3s - but just because the masses are willing to settle for mediocrity doesn't mean we all will.

When Apple is offering uncompressed BD quality downloads (that I can get quickly and without upsetting my ISPs) I'll listen to the reasons not to have a BD player. Until then, screw Apple.
 
oban14 said:
Apple has made a lot of money selling people crap - like 128 bit MP3s - but just because the masses are willing to settle for mediocrity doesn't mean we all will.
Click to expand...

I don't think you understand what a bit is. 128 bits is ~1/2 seconds of standard quality music.
 
iEdd said:
Why did people vote this post down? Everything you have just said is indisputable fact.

I'm done paying huge amounts for AV boxes in the lounge room, considering how the UIs are plain bad and every feature is far cheaper on an HTPC (or Mac, if Blu-ray were possible).
Click to expand...

regardless you probably need a receiver for the audio on an HTPC right?
 
oban14 said:
The problem is that what Apple calls "HD" :rolleyes: downloads are really compressed garbage. Try watching on a 52" or larger TV and you can really see it. There is a reason Blu-Ray discs hold 50 GB of data.

Apple has made a lot of money selling people crap - like 128 bit MP3s - but just because the masses are willing to settle for mediocrity doesn't mean we all will.

When Apple is offering uncompressed BD quality downloads (that I can get quickly and without upsetting my ISPs) I'll listen to the reasons not to have a BD player. Until then, screw Apple.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with you. Currently Downloads do not have the same quality as Blu-Ray. I also agree that there are a lot of people who would like to see a Blu-Ray player in a Mac.

Unfortunately Apple like to push technology forward and it does not see the future in Physical media. It holds the MacBook Air up as the future of laptops and that does not even have a DVD / CD Player built in. Apple was the first computer company to drop the floppy drive, and I suspect in the next 3-5 years it will drop optical drives as a standard built in component in all its consumer Macs.

Now a number of people may not be happy with this, but you do have other ways of watching Blu-Ray. It is just that Apple is not bothered if you can't play them on your Mac, and to be brutally honest the majority of people buying Mac's clearly don't care either.
 
Actually, slrandall is right. He was being a smartarse, but he's right.

bit != bits/second
 
James Craner said:
I can't see Apple ever putting a Blu-Ray drive in a Mac. Physical media has peaked in the market. Blu Ray was meant to be a natural progression from DVD, yet several years on DVD sales still account for 75% of market share of physical media. DVD itself has been in decline for the last 4 years. In the 1st Quarter of 2011 physical sales in the DVD market have dropped 19% and high street rental fell by 36% year on year (UK stats).

I understand that a minority of people care about a Blu-Ray drive in the Mac, but Apple has never focused on the minority of people (take a look at Final Cut Pro X). The lack of a Blu Ray drive is not hurting Mac sales so clearly the majority of people don't care. Apple likes to set trends not follow them, and I just can't see it take a step back and invest in physical media as the market is now moving to digital downloads.
Click to expand...
Globally cd still outsell digital.
Bd will finally be bigger than dvd, it just takes time.
Going straight from dvd to high quality digital downloads and skipping bd will not work. If you have followed any of these conversations, you know why.

Apple's not interested in minority? Well, that do you call ThunderBolt then?
And not putting usb3?
Apple has traditionally been for minority and things just changed after iOS.
They are still the high-end option in phones and mainstream only in tablets.

But after all your right, crying for bd to macs is just us old timers thinking back when Macs were state-of-the-art and wondering how state-of-the-art they could be now, when Apple could financially do anything they like.
 
tempusfugit said:
Let me guess: you were one of the people also saying "the iPad is just a big iPod touch and it will FAIL"
Click to expand...

Nope, I'm actually a big enthusiast of the iDevices.

What I don't like is the dumbing down of Apple computers.

Devices that lose functionality (e.g. taking away firewire).

New versions of things (Final Cut, iMovie) that are less functional than their predecessors.

Falling behind the industry in areas where Apple once excelled (lack of Blu-Ray and multichannel audio).

Proliferation of "good enough" standards (lossy iTunes music, poorly compressed 720p videos on iTunes, no Blu-Ray).

It's very clear to me that Apple is moving towards the "mittens" approach where the tools will become simplified and less functional, dumbed down versions.

It's also clear to me within 5 years the Macintosh as we know it will no longer exist -- I foresee giant iDevice laptop and desktops, the Intel-based Mac will be all but extinct, and the only place to get content and apps will be iTunes. Lion is only the first step in iOS-ifying the desktop. Get used to the iOS versions of Garage Band and iWork -- that's the future.

Your theories about Blu-Ray are ignorant, the data has been referenced several times in this thread already that Blu-Ray is a growing format that accounts for approximately 1/3 of newly released hits and the format is outpacing DVD at the same points in their lives. Additionally, sales of physical media still dwarf online sales. Streaming accounts for less than 10% of the video market; CDs still outsell music downloads.

The problem with all you "download only" people is that you don't give a rat's ass about quality, prime example of the "good enough" mentality. Those of us who want Blu-Ray understand it's markedly better, it's not that we're luddites clamoring for a physical format only because it's physical. We want it because it's leaps and bounds better.

Apple used to be all about the quality; now it's about "good enough" while charging prices for the highest quality.

James Craner said:
Apple likes to set trends not follow them, and I just can't see it take a step back and invest in physical media as the market is now moving to digital downloads.

If you want Blu Ray get a PC or a dedicated player but I just can't see Apple ever putting one in a Mac now.
Click to expand...

I've said before, Steve Jobs says he wants to skate to where the puck is going not where it is now, but the problem is right now he's skating to where the puck will be while they still have the hardwood down playing a basketball game.

As of today, and for the next several years, downloads simply cannot match what Blu-Ray offers. Further, there are all sorts of infrastructure problems that will prevent this download utopia of yours from happening. High bandwidth infrastructure is not available in all parts of the world; ISPs are not prepared for every household to be streaming 50mbps videos at the same time; many ISPs have monthly bandwidth caps that will retard online video streaming; and at least in the US we have a net neutrality fight where the ISPs want to throttle and de-prioritize certain traffic (such as video) to prevent all their bandwidth from being sucked up.

Are downloads/streaming important? Yes. I stream and download plenty. But I don't see it taking over any time soon, and since I insist on the best quality for my home theater, that's Blu-Ray and will be for several years to come.

Note I didn't even touch upon the DRM issue, where content you buy on iTunes is locked to your iTunes store account and cannot be resold, whereas a Blu-Ray can be played anywhere and sold to anybody when you tire of it.
 
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toke lahti said:
Globally cd still outsell digital.
Bd will finally be bigger than dvd, it just takes time.
Going straight from dvd to high quality digital downloads and skipping bd will not work. If you have followed any of these conversations, you know why.

Apple's not interested in minority? Well, that do you call ThunderBolt then?
And not putting usb3?
Apple has traditionally been for minority and things just changed after iOS.
They are still the high-end option in phones and mainstream only in tablets.

But after all your right, crying for bd to macs is just us old timers thinking back when Macs were state-of-the-art and wondering how state-of-the-art they could be now, when Apple could financially do anything they like.
Click to expand...

CD is digital.
BluRay will never have the market saturation DVD did. Streaming is the future of most media.
 
iEdd said:
I'm done paying huge amounts for AV boxes in the lounge room, considering how the UIs are plain bad and every feature is far cheaper on an HTPC (or Mac, if Blu-ray were possible).
Click to expand...
I'm done also, but not any smarter, because right now, I would pay similiar amounts for Genelegs.
When I was young, I worked a long time to get Pioneer's M-90a. I still love it, it's beatiful with wooden ends and eats respectable amounts of electricity.
But I will never spend so much for a such a box ever more.
And the amount of boxes just keep rising.
Nobody has typewriter on the desk and fax next to it, when you can do both (and even some more) with computer. Same thing for ht-boxes; if you want to build your home theather to kind of museum it's okay, but there's really no technical reason for that.
And it's quite strange when somebody wants to have old fashion boxes, but at the same time tells that we need to skip one generation of distribution of data. How about "live in the now"?
AppleDApp said:
regardless you probably need a receiver for the audio on an HTPC right?
Click to expand...
This is also something that has gone really to the bad tracks in recent years.
When surround amps have become mainstream, same thing has happened than in almost all consumer electronics: 95% buys cheapest bulk and the rest overpriced high-end, so there's really no reasonably priced good quality mid range anymore.
Every year you should buy a new box when new function or standard comes up; no modularity or expandability whatsoever.
There was few über expensive receivers, which were card based, but their price was way out of any reasonable window and updates just somehow were pretty much forgotten.
Since I find active speakers and balanced audio lines technically nice (also to my ears), I'd like to have decent surround pre-amp with just basic set of features and xlr outputs (and maybe airplay and...:)), but suprisingly there just isn't any.
Well after the mortgages are paid and kids have good jobs and I'm retired, I might buy this amazing box with "hundred year old miracle" called balanced lines...
blueroom said:
CD is digital.
BluRay will never have the market saturation DVD did. Streaming is the future of most media.
Click to expand...
"Digital" is short for "digital download & streaming" and we all know that.
Maybe you are the one who ran from classroom to the other telling people that "you can't digitize miniDV-tapes, since they are already digital"...:rolleyes:
And of course you are right that bd will never exceed dvd's popularity. 7 years ago dvd was the only option. Bd will never be the only option. But bd will overwhelmingly outsell "digital download & streaming" in a couple of years and maybe for the rest of this decade.
Streaming is the future of most media, but sadly we are not living in the future.
At present time we still use cars, instead of flying or teleport and we want best possible quality and resale value with the technology that gives us that today and also has some kind of standard for interoperability.
Ever tried to give iTunes movie you bought, to your friend as a present, since you don't want it, but you know he/she will?
There is a reason why distributors would like as to go fully "digital" even today. You couldn't own copies any more, only some rights to use them sometimes.
You can also count on it, that Apple will make a great offer to you to upgrade your 720p iTunes movies to 1080p for very reasonable price. Next offer will be "1080p with REAL BD quality (1080p+). Then 3D version, then xvYCC...
 
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JAT said:
No, ghetto would be a Sony LCD. Shiny, overpriced, and absolute crap.

You sure like saying "THX".
Click to expand...

linux2mac can't go 5 seconds without namedropping, especially telling us about his projection screen, so I'm following suit; I paid a lot for my plasma (THX certification does add to the cost, generally speaking, at least it indicates a certain level of performance) and it does offer the best picture you can get anywhere at any size and any technology. :cool:

blueroom said:
BluRay will never have the market saturation DVD did. Streaming is the future of most media.
Click to expand...

I remember people saying DVD will never catch on because VHS is too popular and the previous disc formats VCD and LaserDisc failed. It only went on to become the fastest growing format ever.

Blu-Ray is already outpacing DVD at the same points in their lives. How a format that is selling faster than the best selling format ever can be called a failure is mind boggling.

Even if it never reaches DVD's total saturation (and I wouldn't expect it to because DVDs are cheaper to produce and good enough for disposable media), that doesn't mean it is by any means a failure -- only the 2nd most successful format ever. Oh the horror.

Looking for player sales information, I came across the weekly sales for June 20 - June 26.

Top Five Sellers for Week Ending 06/26/11 (Blu-ray's market share).

The Adjustment Bureau (43%)
Unknown (41%)
Diary of a Wimpy Kid: Rodrick Rules (24%)
Battle: Los Angeles (47%)
True Grit (40%)

Aside from the kid movie, Blu-Ray scores 41-47% of the top selling discs. You should be nervous, because 51% means it's overtaken DVD and it's knocking on the door. I expect by this fall all the summer blockbusters will be hitting 50% Blu-Ray.

EDIT: Digging deeper I found the prior week's sales:

Top Five Sellers for Week Ending 06/19/11 (Blu-ray's market share).

Battle: Los Angeles (59%)
True Grit (57%)
Red Riding Hood (36%)
Hall Pass (40%)
Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part 1 (42%)


Well well, Blu-Ray accounted for 60% of the top two titles that week.

Streaming may be the future but it isn't NOW. Blu-Ray's been here since 2007 and it isn't going away. Apple would be wise to adopt it while we all wait another 5-10 years for the download utopia to materialize and catch up.
 
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blueroom said:
CD is digital.
BluRay will never have the market saturation DVD did. Streaming is the future of most media.
Click to expand...

Never say never :)

Assuming that 'Streaming' does take over, the lower bandwidth of DVD will "Die" first, resulting in a period where BR will have a greater market presence ... but that's merely a transient until BR's physical media is also usurped by Streaming...its merely a question of the timeline for ample I/O bandwidth (and bandwidth caps) to make it happen.

Of course, there will be other factors which delay this transition. For example, the availability (in various markets) of cheap counterfeit optical disks already serves to "prop up" the popularity of some media formats over another.


-hh
 
Really, I think it will be good to have Blu ray on Mac... I remember when I went to school and there wasn't internet connection there to watch a movie in 720p from my iTunes account, and someone brought his blu ray, and he asked me to watch it on my Mac, but unfrotunately, my Mac can't... and I was wondering why Apple so highly spoke about Internet based movie download rather than support blu ray.. ?
 
Blu Ray was dead the day it was conceived. Apple know this. Blu Ray & HD-DVD were released simultaneously a few years ago - no wonder consumers held back from taking the leap of risk. VHS/Beta to DVD was a *massive* upgrade; not only were you moving from fuzzy analogue to digital, you had random access too AND a far better resolution.

I feel consumers en masse, probably thought/are thinking "oh look, here we go AGAIN!", after only just having settled into DVD, they're told DVD is dead, and now HD is a "must have". Blu Ray player adoption is nothing like the mass adoption of DVD, and its' not as if it has only just been released, either.

To all those who complain that Apple don't use Blu Ray drives, I suggest you sit down and think the logic through a little deeper - it's not exactly "revolutionary" in the same way that VHS ---> DVD was, it's just another spinning plastic disc, albeit with higher resolution... oh, and you HAVE to buy a new HDTV too, Mr Consumer person :rolleyes:

Optical: dying & old tech + Apple: forward thinking with superb insight = "not gonna happen. Move on."

If you're desperate to have it, go buy an external drive.

[EDIT] Loving all the down-rating of this post - only reinforces my opinion further!
 
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Jobs is the kind of guy that would burn his best friend (Woz) out of money, that's what Jobs is all about, he's a liar and greedy. He preys on those who'll blindly take whatever he says as gold and unfortunately there's a lot of them in the Mac community.

The entire issue has to do with licensing, and when you talk licensing, we're talking $$$. He wants each Mac user to continue buying HD video content through iTunes, he makes a bigger cut that way than if you go to your local Blockbuster and buy/rent an HD/BR movie.
 
Remove Optical drive as a standard option, make it a BTO option, upgrade SuperDrive to include BD for the BTO internal option and upgrade the external drive to BD & TB. Then Apple can sell a BD player app on the mac app store (with the Kernel extensions etc. necessary) Everyone gets what they want and all the silly debating can end. The problem with this debate is that everyone is right in some fashion or another. We all use computers differently and for different purposes so we have different desires, requirements, etc. I want BD for the storage medium, but I don't really care about playing the movies on my laptop as I usually get suckered into buying the multipack with the digital copy and the BD copy. I much prefer BD for my movies but don't really care much if I have them on my computer. Guess what, I'm completely correct in my view, just as someone who has no need for BD at all is also correct. All the bantering back and forth is silly because everyone is different and everyone wants to do things their own way for their own reasons. I can think of 100 reasons why I like BD's and I'm sure someone else could come up with 100 counter points for why they don't and that's perfectly okay. In short, I have no doubt that optical media will eventually die, but for now I personally think people should have the choice to decide if it's something they want to spend money on or not.
 
Just try to watch an iTunes movie on a VPR (5mt base screen) and tell me if there's no need of bluray.
I've spent 10.000$+ for my HT and I've quit going to cinema...it's definitely better quality in my cinema room ;)
Once it won't be a problem downloading 50-100Gb for each movie, then i'll agree with Steve!

Melagodo
 
I can't believe this thread is still going. One of my favorite themes is that BR (the present) is dead because streaming is the alleged future. Only occasionally is the point made that BR is far superior to streaming/downloading.

It's pretty obvious that many (most?) people don't really care about audio or video quality as long as it's "good enough" For consumers who find iPods, iPhones and iPads to be good enough that's really good news. Technology has met their needs.

There is however that other group of which I'm a member. Our much smaller group of consumers is willing to spend a lot more on equipment and media in order to have everything work better. Apple currently provides some of that "better" equipment and by golly I buy it!

It's not our choice whether Apple continues to court our allegiance. Only the computer/software powerhouses can decide that. Whether future high-end media lovers are Apple/Mac users or HP/Windows users we will definitely be in the market for powerful computers, BR or above audio/video quality.
 
iphonepiephone said:
Blu Ray was dead the day it was conceived. Apple know this. Blu Ray & HD-DVD were released simultaneously a few years ago - no wonder consumers held back from taking the leap of risk. VHS/Beta to DVD was a *massive* upgrade; not only were you moving from fuzzy analogue to digital, you had random access too AND a far better resolution.

I feel consumers en masse, probably thought/are thinking "oh look, here we go AGAIN!", after only just having settled into DVD, they're told DVD is dead, and now HD is a "must have". Blu Ray player adoption is nothing like the mass adoption of DVD, and its' not as if it has only just been released, either.

To all those who complain that Apple don't use Blu Ray drives, I suggest you sit down and think the logic through a little deeper - it's not exactly "revolutionary" in the same way that VHS ---> DVD was, it's just another spinning plastic disc, albeit with higher resolution... oh, and you HAVE to buy a new HDTV too, Mr Consumer person :rolleyes:

Optical: dying & old tech + Apple: forward thinking with superb insight = "not gonna happen. Move on."

If you're desperate to have it, go buy an external drive.

[EDIT] Loving all the down-rating of this post - only reinforces my opinion further!
Click to expand...

What you say makes a lot of sense. But here is what I don't get.

1) DVD was revolutionary but Blu-ray offers everything DVD offers (random access) and a much higher resolution. So Blu-ray is inferior just because it isn't as revolutionary but does everything better? We should stick with a 480p format because the 1080p format isn't as revolutionary?

2) Apple's forward thinking to a streaming future is correct but right now we are limited to 720p compressed movies due to bandwidth caps and the fact that the broadband hasn't even penetrated throughout the entire country.

So why is it a bad thing for Apple to include Blu-ray for the time being, just until that streaming future is here? It makes all the sense in the world if 1080p movies are here at this moment on iTunes. But since they are not, you're saying it is better off to include DVD drives instead of Blu-ray? What you say makes PERFECT sense if Apple removed optical drives all together. But they didn't. Instead they chose to still include DVD drives which is an older technology than Blu-ray. That makes no sense if what you say is true regarding Apple's forward thinking.
 
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