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Your personal experience of iTunes doesn't reflect the rest of the world. Look on apple discussion forums to see that iTunes doesn't work 100% reliably.


1: Itunes has always worked 100% reliably on every PC or mac I've ever installed it on. I can't speak for Junk Tech as I've never installed it on any....but then this is the crux of the entire PC vs Mac philosophy ain't it!...Even Windows is reliable on good H/W.

2:please show respect in the presence of greatness!!! Apple Fan Boi's have achieved a form of higher consciousness, a state of technological nirvana and an understanding to the deeper meaning of life.
They will all re-incarnate as dolphins on the ocean planet of Applegaio and live playfully in the sunbathed crystal blue seas without threat or harm or any nastiness ever coming to pass before finally ascending into the light of universal unity...Anti-mac users of course will come back to a parallel earth as 16th century miners and be forced to dig coal from deep beneath the hot earth with their bare hands...
ROTFL.
:D
 
Just a quick question here to all of you:

If you buy music from iTunes and buy and listen to it legally, then what's the point of not having DRM if it won't really affect the way you buy and listen to music?
I have 12936 songs in my iTunes Library, 2318 are purchased from iTunes. Most of the rest are from CDs, and a couple hundred remain as "illegal" MP3 downloads from the pre-iTMS days that are still not available on iTMS or CDs (ie odd one-hit wonders, rare remixes, live versions, etc). All the other downloads I used to have I have replaced from iTMS, or buying & ripping used CDs from various sources (mostly Amazon.com). The iTMS actually spurred me into replacing my Napster-Limewired MP3s, even for songs it did not carry!

I used jhymn on all my iTMS purchases, until it broke. The primary reason was that I was using the Elgato EyeHome as a networked media player to my home entertainment system, and it could not play the DRM'ed files. The secondary reason was related to that...how could I be certain in the future that there wouldn't be some other device I'd rather use, or that Apple itself (gasp!) might go bankrupt, vanish off the face of the earth, go out of the music business altogether, change their terms, etc. Using jhymn was to future-proof my >$2000 investment in music purchases, not to do anything illegal. Interestingly, the default settings of jhymn left the purchaser's "info" embedded in the track, just removed the "lock"...I wonder if this sort of DRM would be good enough. Would people be willing to trade/copy music if their name/email was being propagated along with the song?

I have 4 Macs, 5 iPods, and now use a Mac mini as my media hub. I suppose at some point I'll buy an AppleTV and thus be so enmeshed in the Apple ecosystem that the DRM will "always" work for me and be completely transparent...or will it? I've bought precious few songs (<20) from iTMS since jhymn broke.
 
I've read through this thread, but I still don't see how record labels are ever going to allow non DRM downloads. It'd be great for consumers, but wouldn't it just be too easy to fileshare? Even easier than importing a CD and sharing the resulting files?
 
Everyone is missing the point of the letter.....


Without biting the hand that feeds it, Steve Jobs has brought the issue into the public and has successfully got the masses of users talking about DRM-free music.

Only the consumers have the power to sway the big labels - not Apple, Inc.

By getting the consumers all fired up about DRM-free music and by revealing the hypocrisity of the big music labels themselves, Steve can effectively have the consumers act on Apple's behalf.

Very savy on Steve's part. iTunes now has a substantial revenue stream, so the big labels won't be so quick to drop iTunes support. Apple has made the iPod into the dominate digital player device and now, all that is needed is a bunch of irate consumers demanding DRM-free music and the big label companies have been painted into a corner. They won't be able to lash out at Apple or iTunes or Steve Jobs without hurting their revenue streams, although I am sure that they are furious at him nonetheless.

A brilliant CheckMate move. Steve Jobs is dancing a dangerous dance, but doing it well, indeed.

-joedy
 
i understand that i am in no way typical.

but i think that all of this is hilariuos. probably because i buy cds and rip them. DRM is so...2000s.

tDRM is the only way they can say they made an effort to protect IP. it is a necessary thing. it sucks sometimes...but how often?
 
I've read through this thread, but I still don't see how record labels are ever going to allow non DRM downloads. It'd be great for consumers, but wouldn't it just be too easy to fileshare? Even easier than importing a CD and sharing the resulting files?
The labels will have no choice if they're not careful... right now they're losing their grip on owning the distribution channels to Apple. The only way they can get that back is by removing DRM, so they can sell music from other stores that will work on the world's most popular player.

http://islayer.com/blog/?p=112
 
Drm

Well done to Steve Jobs. At least he has told us the reasons behind the DRM situation. I think people are forgetting that Apple's iTunes Store was the first "commercial" online store for music. The music companies were very hesitant in joining this venture and Apple had to bargain with them on what to do. Obviously, DRM was a feature the music companies wanted. They wanted to protect themselves completely, especially after the debacle of online piracy.

However, it is apparent that DRM isn't working. As Steve Jobs pointed out, CDs don't have DRM and pretty much anything on iTunes can be found on CD and most likely on a P2P site.

This is the problem I have: what is the big deal about DRM? It's my money, it's my music, I'm the one who is going to listen to it. If I want someone else to listen to my music or I want it on a player other than an iPod, I can always burn an audio CD which can then be used like any other music CD. Surely this isn't that much of an effort for people?!

Also, I don't believe if the iTunes Store is DRM-free it will make much difference to iPod sales. Everyone knows iPods are the best music players on the market, they will just continue buying them. As for iTunes, everyone knows it's the best music jukebox software available. If anything, I'm sure people will buy songs from iTunes but own a player other than an iPod, which will mean iTunes will be even more popular.

Someone thinks The Beatles music will be DRM-free. As they're with EMI, it depends if they will put their entire catalog DRM-free.

And as for the person complaining about no news about Mac Pros, OS10.5, etc., get a life. Stop flogging a dead horse. Why hijack every topic and mention this constantly? It won't change a thing.
 
This is the problem I have: what is the big deal about DRM? It's my money, it's my music, I'm the one who is going to listen to it. If I want someone else to listen to my music or I want it on a player other than an iPod, I can always burn an audio CD which can then be used like any other music CD. Surely this isn't that much of an effort for people?!
Burning a CD loses your meta-data, cover art and reduces quality (on a song that already doesn't sound as good as a 16bit/44.1khz master... ie a normal CD). Plus, it can't be automated.

Why settle for a substandard and possibly illegal solution when it should be easy and legal?
 
this is a joke...right?:confused:

What problems did they have?

There are different versions of WMA, some media players won't support the latest versions - but thats hardly MS fault.

WMA has been hacked a couple of times, just like Fairplay.
 
I've read through this thread, but I still don't see how record labels are ever going to allow non DRM downloads. It'd be great for consumers, but wouldn't it just be too easy to fileshare? Even easier than importing a CD and sharing the resulting files?

Some may have better arguments or reasons, but this is my understanding of the situation. DRM exists to make piracy hard, but is only administered to those of us who have made the choice to obtain our music legally online. Obtaining music without paying for it is just as easy as purchasing from itunes, but we have shown through our purchase that we support buying it. We are not the root of piracy problems, but we are paying the price for it. The ones creating the problem do not suffer at all because of DRM, so the solution is not addressing the problem.

We are not the ones that are sick, yet the medicine is being forced down our throats against our will, and it tastes like ass.
 
<ultra cynical mode>

Has Steve just been really clever here? All he's said is: "We'd prefer not to have DRM, but if we need to have it, it's better to have a closed DRM system as other companies will leak the technical details and it won't work".

That's a safe gamble, given that he knows the big labels are very, very unlikely to agree to DRM-free music! Effectively, all he's saying is "it's better to have a closed DRM system".
 
I really don't think other players should be allowed to use itunes. Itunes is an integral part for the iPod which helps it separate itself from the competition. If you want to use iTunes get an iPod.

Your opinion seems to be one hundred percent opposite to that of Steve Jobs, who has just said that Apple would love it if the big record companies allowed everyone to sell DRM-free music, which would play on any device, allowing new music stores to be opened by competitors who are currently stopped by the complexity of implementing DRM, and allowing new, innovative players to be created by competitors. That's what Steve Jobs says, and who am I to argue with that.
 
iTunes

Burning a CD loses your meta-data, cover art and reduces quality (on a song that already doesn't sound as good as a 16bit/44.1khz master... ie a normal CD). Plus, it can't be automated.

Why settle for a substandard and possibly illegal solution when it should be easy and legal?

Fair enough, but I doubt the average user will notice much difference (if any) with the sound quality. I know people complain about not having lossless on the iTunes store, but can you really notice the difference? Most people would convert it (degrade it) to a smaller file anyway.

Also, the cover art will reappear on iTunes as the program will get it from the store again when you copy the CD onto iTunes.
 
If you are going to make such claims you should have the proof to back them up.

Quite frankly, it sounds like you made it up.

No, probably listed to Eric Weber and other authors in the Baen SF library. They found that as they released FREE novels and stories, they go more sales of not only their other work, but also OF THE WORKS THEY RELEASED FOR FREE.

Boggled my mind, but it IS true.
 
Burning a CD loses your meta-data, cover art and reduces quality (on a song that already doesn't sound as good as a 16bit/44.1khz master... ie a normal CD).
Yes, you lose your meta-data, especially if you've taken the effort to add information to the ID3 tags or correct errors with data from the CDDB.

But burning a compressed format to CD does not introduce any more reduction in quality. It will have the same quality as the original source, since CD format is a lossless one. It is only if you rip that CD into another lossy format that you would get further reduction in quality.
 
Even Windows is reliable on good H/W.

I beg to differ. Windows still behaves like an unruly child on even the best hardware, i.e. my Mac Pro. All drivers properly installed on a seperate drive without the help of bootcamp and I still get goofy assed errors like, "fldrclnr.dll could not be found." Thanks, and the only option is to click "OK," so I have no recourse, and I also get random win32 service crashes. Windows is a very fickle beast, I've only got 13 apps installed on the Windows drive, and it still behaves ridiculously. Go figure.
 
I beg to differ. Windows still behaves like an unruly child on even the best hardware, i.e. my Mac Pro. All drivers properly installed on a seperate drive without the help of bootcamp and I still get goofy assed errors like, "fldrclnr.dll could not be found." Thanks, and the only option is to click "OK," so I have no recourse, and I also get random win32 service crashes. Windows is a very fickle beast, I've only got 13 apps installed on the Windows drive, and it still behaves ridiculously. Go figure.

bootcamp is still in beta...
 
As a general note, please do not describe ways to get rid of the DRM in these forums. That constitutes a violation of the usage agreement, as I'm sure you already know.

It also puts MacRumors at risk because it seems that we're providing the information.

Talk of piracy is not allowed and removing the DRM by itself may not be that but it's step number one in allowing it.
 
I've read through this thread, but I still don't see how record labels are ever going to allow non DRM downloads. It'd be great for consumers, but wouldn't it just be too easy to fileshare? Even easier than importing a CD and sharing the resulting files?

Actually the opposite appears to be happening. Three weeks ago at one of the major world music conferences in Canne, France, several major labels discussed this very thing and were open to it. DRM free music. It IS coming!!!
 
Are you kidding?

I am sure that, with more than 300 replies, there are some very considered responses as well as the usual "Way to go"! type replies. But it is amazing to me that Steve Jobs would take a such a position.

Everyone reading this knows Steve is a visionary and that, as such, he has gained the respect, admiration and perhaps fear from fans, friends and foes. But a DRM-free iTunes store seems irresponsible. As an artist, I would like to understand more about this thinking, because it may very well be that Steve has the ability to see into the future and understand how this might work out for all.

But it seems that allowing music to be sold without DRM will do nothing more than diminish the number of sales. This would be very similar to the idea that software should be sold without copy protection. We have all heard from the software makers about how much piracy has hurt their sales. There is even an enormous "Turn in the software pirate" campaign that ran recently (or perhaps is still running), where software makers offered rewards to people who turned in software pirates.

Look at the video tape business. Before copy protection was added to video tapes people were copying the tapes and some were even then trying to SELL or RENT the copies for profit. This was a huge burden to the video industry, which was relieved somewhat by adding copy protection.

The argument about there not being copy protection on CDs just does not make sense, either. When CDs were first manufactured it was essentially impossible for anyone to do more than make an audio cassette copy of the CD. And even the most prolific copy makers needed to do so in real time (1 minute of song takes 1 minute to record). For a 40 minute album someone would have to allocate a significant amount of time to make copies in quantities that would hurt the recording industry. It could be done, sure, but it was not so easy to do.

Not so with digital. I can make a digital copy of a CD in a few minutes, and I don't need to buy any media to distribute it. Nor do I need to invest in any method of distribution, presuming that since I have the capability to make a digital copy that I am also on the internet. I can make a copy of a song and send it to 100 (or 1,000, or 10,000) of my friends in just a few minutes, or post it to a web site for other to download.

Sony tried to implement DRM on their CDs and it blew up in their face. That does not mean that it was not the right answer, it just means that SONY had the wrong answer. Record companies recognize that music piracy erodes, not helps, sales - and that is likely one of the big reasons they felt DRM was so important in a digital environment.

I think in an ideal world everything should be freely available to everyone. That model might work, but as long as people are laboring - and believe me, it is a labor to compose, record, master and distribute music - they need to be compensated for that labor.

The few cents I receive from a digital play on Napster or the percentage of the sale I receive from an iTunes purchase is not much for an artist at my level. But at the Nickelback or Bocelli levels, these few cents amount to a significant amount of money. Much of which would not happen if I could buy once and reproduce and distribute freely.

Apple sold 21,066,000 iPods in Q1 of 2007. Granted, with a DRM-free iTunes store they would probably sell even more hardware. But the 5 million songs per day they sell in the iTunes store would probably experience a significant drop. So is Steve saying hardware is more important than the software? In this instance he makes the hardware and just resells the software. Hmmm. Maybe to him the software isn’t as important. Anyone got a copy of Final Cut Studio they'd like to pass around? Let's get a few hundred unprotected copies of some Apple software in circulation and see what Steve says about DRM.
 
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