Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Rubaiyat said:
Yes I know, nobody's forcing me to upgrade my OS but for how long will Apple provide Panther-compatible upgrades of Safari after Tiger is released?

Apple will most likely never provide Safari updates for anything but the latest system. This is because WebKit, which safari uses to download and display web pages is part of the system -- Safari isn't a "standalone" browser. However, there's nothing keeping you from using something like Camino (which is basically functionally identical to Safari, with the added bonus of handling secure sites properly) on any system -- It still runs on systems back to 10.1.

Apple software is not the only software there is, and third-party equivalents of the apple apps, as well as older versions, continue to work just fine on older systems.
 
coolsoldier said:
Apple will most likely never provide Safari updates for anything but the latest system. This is because WebKit, which safari uses to download and display web pages is part of the system.

it really depends of how much they need to change. i understand why they left jaguar users behind, but in the future the changes to webkit must become smaller, and therefore they can be updated easier.

so if panther users will not get the latest safari after tiger release, most likely tiger users will get the latest after the next big cat.
 
WHAT'S IN A NAME?
TIGER & LION don't sound as exotic as Jaguar or Panther, but they're bigger cats so we're just going to have to get used to the idea. I'm curious at what other types of cats we're going to see in the evolution of OS X. At 10.4 we're at TIGER. Will there be a different cat name for every increment until OS 11? How many cats are there bigger than a TIGER?

UPGRADING TO TIGER
"Will I have to pay for another update?"

First of all, this won't be an update, it's an UPGRADE. Paying for a new release of an OS is always a sore spot for some users. People want to experience "a whole new Mac", but they don't want to pay for it. Grow up. Some people are so selfish that they would rather Apple only updated their OS every few years so THEY wouldn't have to pay more money. Never mind that Apple wants to generate revenue AND advance technology. Never mind that millions of others WANT the upgrades. They're the same people who buys a new computer and then gets pissed that a NEWER MODEL comes out four months later, de-throning them of having the "top of the line". How rediculous. How selfish.

Secondly, it's been said a million times before, but if you don't want to pay for the new features, stick with OS9 or X or X.1 or X.2 or X.3 -- whatever you have! The programs you're working with the day before a new release will still work the day after a new release. If you can't afford $129 or if you'd rather keep your money, be happy with whatever operating system you find yourself running. Just quit the b!tching about money. No one wants to hear you piss & moan about having to pay for another upgrade. Get used to the fact that Apple is going to release a new OS upgrade every September.

THE SEX of "X"
I know what's throwing some people in relation to "having to pay for another update". They're looking at the numbers. "10.2 is just a little bigger than 10.1, so why do I have to pay". That goes for the apparently "small" one/tenth incremental jumps that cost $129. Just looking at the numbers, it doesn't make sense. Most people are thinking "I should only have to pay when the numbers go up a whole number. 8 to 9 or 9 to 10,etc.

What people are not looking at is the SEXY FACTOR of 10. Roman Numberal 10 = X.... wow... pretty sexy. OS X ... that isn't coming around again. So while they are only going up technically 1/10 of number (and charging you for it), it's really only to keep the number "X" alive. Think about this: if Apple was releasing OS 11 in September, you wouldn't think twice about plunking down the green. It's because "you're only going from 10.3 to 10.4" that you feel ripped. It doesn't matter than the features are going to be really cool, innovative, benefitial and numerous, you still want your whole number. Just realize, Apple wants to keep the SEX of "X".
 
stoid said:

I love your sentiment stoid! ;) It's perrrrr..fect! Anxious to see what Pixar has though. It seems that we are going to have a good laugh over this release. Maybe it will just help with marketing, something very catchy. This is something that sticks in the head and plays over & over! :D
 
Let's just keep these upgrades coming! Did anyone notice that when Panther came out, 2-3 months later Microsoft announced that Longhorn would be delayed (again) until 2005? Every time Apple releases a new OS X, Microsoft just has to spend that much more time playing "catch up" so Longhorn won't be an embarrassment! If we keep this up, Longhorn might never be released!
 
I would like to see cross-platform development support for desktop applications. The way I see it, they have a few options.
- Java-Swing/SWT applications, provided they can get it to get ultra-fast. I shouldn't see the difference between a java application starting up, or a native one.
- Make Cocoa opensource, and port it too windows and linux. (maybe sync the codebase with GNUStep).
- Python/Ruby with wxWidgets, it would be nice if it had support in xcode and interface builder.
- .NET support. dotNET framework is a pretty good technology. Apple would have the mono project to start from.

DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS!
laugh with monkey boy all you want, but developers are pretty much the most important users of a platform :)
 
areyouwishing said:
5. NO MORE DOCK BOUNCING!!! Why does it take 3 bounces to open Photoshops splash screen, and my PC needs ZERO seconds (ie, click icon, see splash... instantaneously) What is the finder doing during this bouncing?
Hey, the system is loading the program WHILE the bouncing !

bertagert said:
This is something Apple should address some how. When I first switched, this was one of my fears (that windows seemed snappier). New windows machines launch programs rather quickly. It is perceived to the end user that windows is a faster machine. Once you learn how OS X works, then you realize that both machines are compariable in speed (for the most part anyway). If I didn't do as much studying on as I did, I'd still have a windows box. The GUI seems much more snappy than OS X.
I had the same kind of trouble when I switched...
In the Windows (especially pre XP,2000) world,
I couldn't open many apps reliably, so I made a habit of quitting apps often.
In OS X however, you can't quit an app just by closing the window :eek:
I at first cmd-Q'ed every time and clicked the dock icon to open every time,
and it was somewhat slow.

But fortunately I learned OS X is so stable :D
I need not quit apps ! Just closing or hiding is ok,
and then apps comes to front almost immediately
when you clicked the dock icon !
 
The new Tiger Finder

finder_tiger.jpg

... in my dreams ;)
 
So looks like Apple are seeking a revenue stream of 1 OS update a year, looking at IIRC about 10 million machines to upgrade p.a...

Guess its not a huge price to pay... $15 AUD a month...

But then an iLife update in January... ~$10 a month...

Mmm.
 
JFreak said:
do you say that unix server administrators are stupider computer users than regular joe using windows? unix servers are planned having 5min downtime each year, so that's what apple should also be targetting.

I was not talking about servers, i guess i should have been more specific.

Apple does a poor job at the 5min/yr downtime in the server market, I agree that they should work on that.
 
pjkelnhofer said:
Only if you want to upgrade. If you are happy your Panther you don't have to upgrade. I know plenty of people who are still using Jaguar, and I will probably wait a couple of years before upgrading (Ocelot?, Cougar?).
Yes, but apple quickly makes the "old" OS obsolete, thus it isn't very compatible
 
Foocha: That would be an awesome viewer for Finder.

I'd also like to see them show the first frame of a video file in the preview window.
 
Keynote Is Free For VIPs and Press

radhak said:
So when is Tiger going to be out? (that name is pretty bland, after Panther :rolleyes: )

Btw, the cost of attending this WWDC is $1595!!! Who can afford to attend at those prices? Has anybody attended any of these? Who paid?
Keynote Is Free For VIPs and Press. That's where Steve pulls a rabbit out of his hat. ; ^ )

:p

There are scholarships for students and the rest mostly are paid for by the companies they work for.

Tiger should be out this Fall like every other OS for the past 4 years.
 
Whiners 101: a quick review of the facts about that $129

Not that there's been as much whining as usual so far, thankfully :) I'm impressed.

Since OS X 10.0 was released in early 2001, there have only been TWO paid upgrades of OS X ever: 10.2 and 10.3 (remember: 10.1 was free). The time before these paid versions was 17 months and 14 months. So if anyone complains about having a paid upgrade every year, they are very mistaken.

People often overlook four things when they complain that Apple advances Mac OS X too quickly:

First, you don't HAVE to upgrade just because you can. Your current apps will keep right on running, AND most new apps will run on your slightly-older OS too. Some new ones won't, but app vendors make clear when that's the case. You can then stick with the older OS/app until the timing is better for you. You won't be left out of security updates, either, if you're afraid that OS X may get its first virus. Apple updates older OS versions for a time. (10.0 got a free update to 10.1, and 10.2 is still receiving updates even with 10.3 long since out.)

Second, regarding cost, $129 is NOT "full" price, it's an upgrade to whatever version of Mac OS (8? 9? X?) you already own. Some expect OS X should ship at two different prices--like a new version of Photoshop or Office does--but that would only make sense if there were buyers who did not ALREADY own Mac OS. Apple has never sold Macs without Mac OS, so there IS no "standalone"/"first purchase" price for OS X. Everyone's first Mac OS purchase is simply bundled WITH a Mac. Apple could still offer a range of different prices depending on HOW old your current OS is--but many app vendors don't do that either: it complicates the upgrade for both buyers and retailers. Buyers would then need to use a serial number scheme or dig up an old DVD or otherwise electronically prover ownership, while retailers would have to stock at least 2 different versions. I'm glad Apple has kept it simple rather than charging more to OS 8/9 owners or something like that. (Sure, I'd love every upgrade of every software to be $5... or free... but developing them isn't free.)

Third, regarding version numbers, 10.3 (etc.) is NOT just a "point release" as some people like to pretend. Many companies use a decimal point for minor updates, and change the main version number for every major update. But Apple doesn't anymore. They have a known brand (and logo) for Mac OS X, and they want to stick with that for now. So they put the major number after the 10. 10.3 is like Mac OS 13. One look at the feature list of Panther will make clear that it is no minor release. The number is not what's important. You tend to get a LOT for your money with an OS X upgrade. (If you choose to buy.)

Fourth, regarding timing, OS X was a new OS, and thus initially it was subject to faster improvement and more frequent upgrades. That's very desirable in a new product! If fast change is hard on certain businesses, that inevitably made OS X less attractive in the early years to that kind of customer. There's no way around the fact that an enterprise customer may not wish to be an early adopter. But the update rate slows down over time--and that's clearly been the case as OS X has grown from a promising start into the mature OS we now have:

Mac OS X Public Beta: 9/13/2000
$30 (free shipping, like all versions), all credited towards purchase of 10.0.

...6 months...

10.0 Cheeta: 3/24/2001
$129 upgrade from all earlier versions of Mac OS: 8, 9, or X. ($99 for Public Beta users.) Or $69 for students/teachers/staff.

...6 months...

10.1 Puma: 9/29/2001
Free to 10.0 owners ($129 or $69 upgrade from all pre-X versions, same as 10.0 was). Given away at CompUSA and other stores. Mac users who have been with OS X from the beta days have still only paid for it once.

...11 months...

10.2 Jaguar: 8/24/2002
$129 or $69 upgrade from all earlier versions of Mac OS. The first of two paid upgrades. But available for free to educators.

...14 months...

10.3 Panther: 10/24/2003
$129 or $69 upgrade from all earlier versions of Mac OS. The second of two paid upgrades. (Or the first ever, for educators.)

...more than 14 months?...

10.4 Tiger: 2004 or 2005?

So the upgrade cycle, in months, has been: 6 - 6 - 11 - 14 (with two free versions early on). Apple's rate of change has naturally slowed as the OS has matured.

Panther took 3 months longer than Jaguar. What if 10.4/Tiger takes 3 months longer (17 months) than Panther? 10.4 would then be released in late March 2005. Or if development STOPS slowing down and 10.4 only takes 14 months again... that's still late December 2004. So even if 10.4 takes the same or slightly less time than 10.3, Apple might still wait a few days and release it in 2005. That would please the vocal people who think Apple should move slower: there would be NO paid releases in 2004.

And remember that earliest reports and developer previews of a new Mac OS often come out FAR ahead of the shipping product. So I think early 2005 is very likely for 10.4.

If Tiger makes it in 2004, though, I'll be pleased. I won't HAVE to buy it if I'd rather wait a few months or even skip it and wait for 10.5. (With most products I buy every other upgrade and cut my costs in half.) But if it's like Jaguar and Panther were, it will be well worth my money.
 
Iroganai said:
Hey, the system is loading the program WHILE the bouncing !
K, Im going to explain it with a timeline so you know what i am talking about... i don't know if you use photoshop on both platforms, but im going to assume that you don't since you don't know what i am talking about.

1ghz G4 Mac Opening up Photoshop CS
(Click On Icon) (Bounce) (Bounce) (Bounce) (Splash Screen/loading prefs, fonts, etc) (In Photoshop)

1ghz P3 WinXP Opening up Photoshop CS
(Click On Icon) (Splash Screen/loading prefs, fonts, etc) (In Photoshop)

In this little timeline you can see that on a PC you go straight from click to splash with no IN-BETWEEN LOADING like on a mac... also known as bounces.
 
the preview-system could use a little work, for instance, letting you define the apps to do the previewing, and not have QT trying with every single file.

If I'm in column view, and highlight a DivX file, QT will try to show it, and I either get a message saying it can't, or a black/white screen with no audio, or just audio etc.

If I could just say: VLC should handle all my .avi-previews, thank-you-very-much I would be very pleased.
 
Mac users CANNOT complain that Windows OSes costs more than OS X... especially when OS X now has a semi-mandatory upgrade every 18 months.

Am I the only one who said out loud, "Jeez, already?" when they saw the news?
 
kirk26 said:
How about this for Tiger: Can I please finally choose Copy, Cut, or Paste when I right click on a mouse. Is there a 3rd party program that does this basic neanderthal function?

Works in my Finder - OSX 10.3.3, I have copy and paste in the contextual menu :-/
 
hayesk said:
Impressive, but how often do people boot their machines these days. Doesn't everyone just put them to sleep every day.

I do, and everyone should, but most people don't. I work in IT, and I say with a lot of confidence that most people think shutting down their computer at the end of the day is the proper thing to do.
 
idkew said:
i'm getting deja vu nagromme

I've been adapting that post as needed for some time :)

ZildjianKX said:
semi-mandatory upgrade every 18 months

Could be worse than a semi-mandatory major feature upgrade twice in three years :)
 
Thank You For The History Lesson nagromme

Thank You For The History Lesson nagromme. I did not mean to overstate the costs nor trivialize the intervals between updates. That was an excellent overview of OS X's history and costs. I agree that next year would be an appropriate time for Tiger to get into my Macs' Tanks.
 
areyouwishing said:
K, Im going to explain it with a timeline so you know what i am talking about... i don't know if you use photoshop on both platforms, but im going to assume that you don't since you don't know what i am talking about.

1ghz G4 Mac Opening up Photoshop CS
(Click On Icon) (Bounce) (Bounce) (Bounce) (Splash Screen/loading prefs, fonts, etc) (In Photoshop)

1ghz P3 WinXP Opening up Photoshop CS
(Click On Icon) (Splash Screen/loading prefs, fonts, etc) (In Photoshop)

In this little timeline you can see that on a PC you go straight from click to splash with no IN-BETWEEN LOADING like on a mac... also known as bounces.

but it loads that individual program during the bounce...the splash screen doesnt mean much....
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.