Steve Jobs to Kick Off WWDC with Preview of Mac OS X "Tiger"

[Iroganai]

thanks for pointing me to the Dock preferences
I tried and found the black triangle blinks instead,
with the same interval as the bounce

but I think the bounce/blink is not the cause for the slow launch.
just check with the Activity Monitor during apps loading.
Most of the cpu time etc. are spent by the Apps,
not the Dock displaying bounce.
Eliminating bouncing animation won't do much good for launch time

These eye-candies (bouncing, drop shadows, transparent menus)
do not cost much with the powerful Quartz Extreme...

 

[Colonel Panik]

That's my dream Tiger - what's yours?

I'd like the bugs and stupid behaviours cleaned up. For example, when an app is looking for a remote server that's gone offline, firstly the app gives the spinning wheel, and secondly the Finder then goes and does a bender, making a force quit necessary. Sometimes it gives the double dialog 'a remote server is unavailable. Do you want to disconnect', but if it doesn't, then a force quit is necessary. And that sucks.

Another thing I'd like is a 'refresh' contextual option in the finder, because windows don't automatically update, only when queried.

But my major request is that they make iChat available for Windows, and able to connect to all the different clients. Being able to iSight with a Windows MSN Messenger user would be cool. Perhaps they could integrate iChat into the OS somehow, coming up with some amazing new ways of using it.

Apart from that, I think that Panther is one cool OS.

 

[wizard]

What is more interesting is the cube computers at the bottom of the referenced page. Indications of things to come?

Dave

It may not be stated in the press release, but the WWDC page states it explicitly:

 

[BrianKonarsMac]

Mabey I am the only one to think of this yet, but will this be a full 64 bit OS? Not a 32 bit with 64 bit extensions. A true 64 bit os would really have a performance boost with G5 across the board.....G5 Powermac, G5 PowerBook, G5 iMac, etc. I would think this would be his biggest announcment.

Yes I know that iTunes and every other program would have to recompled, but isn't that what xCode is for? I am just ready for those G5 powerbooks. The last update was okay. A 9700 in a powerbook is awsome, and in reality a 1.5 G4 isn't shabby. They run on very little power. But I cannot make myself spend 2500 bucks on a machine that has a slower bus speed that my P3 from several years ago.

sorry, longhorn may be out before OS X is a true 64 bit os. look how long it took to completely drop OS 9 support, and people are still using OS 9. Imagine the user ratio of G4s to G5...until it's anywhere near the ratio of OS 9 to OS X users...no 64 bit OS.

What is more interesting is the cube computers at the bottom of the referenced page. Indications of things to come?

Dave

those would be the prize boxes...unfortunately not new G5 cubes :/.

 

[manu chao]

6.) Allow multiple work enviroments for one user via multiple Finders. I would love to have one Finder where I am working on Photoshop files. One where I am working on HTML coding another where I am surfing the web. It would take care of the clutter problem that OSX so easily suffers from. And you could use that nifty spinning cube effect to go between them.
Joe

You can have something similar already, e.g. in Photoshop hit crtl-cmd-H (in most apps it is simply cmd-H) and click on the webbrowser icon in the dock, optionally you could option-click the webbrowser icon.

Hiding an app is like switching to another work environment.

 

[SiliconAddict]

already exists - just put in your panther cd and re-install the system.

in reality XP system restore is the worst implementation i have ever seen - it eats hard drive space faster than you could ever imagine and when something goes wrong, the restore database is already so bloated that if it actually manages to restore the system, the process takes ages.

i'd rather re-install the system and have it working fast. XP restore is full of crap. believe me, i've tried it at work where my XP workstation crashed, and at the end of the day our it personnel decided to order me a new pc.

What are you talking about?!?! The process is only as long as how many files it has to restore. If your stupid and are monitoring ALL of your partitions and disks then yah its going to take a while and as for bloat you can specify as small or as much as the disk you want system restore to take up. Of course its going to bloat if you set it to 1.2GB but if you set it to something like 2% and 400MB its a simple to restore. I've had to use system restore only once and it saved me from having to rebuild the system from scratch. It was a 3 year old app that felt it had to overwrite non system protected system files. A sysrestore took 5 minutes to complete vs. 2 hours to rebuild my system. And you are compairing this to MS's system restore. Do you have ANY doubt that Apple couldn't do it better??!

 

[rog]

A few things I would like in Tiger:

Compatability with my Color Classic and MacTV.

Be able to use my drawing slate that worked fine with my Commodore 64. I've never understood why the Mac OS doesn't support this. It would also be nice if it supported my cassette tape drive.

Greyscale interface. Macs had a much larger share of the market when the OS only supported greyscale.

MacWeb as the default browser. This thing was superfast when it came out a few years back. Apple should buy the rights to it and get rid of Safari.

I agree it should come with Wine, but they might run into problems shipping to children and some states. Still the benefits of setting up an upgraded OS while drunk outweigh the drawbacks.

Bring back Clarus the Dogcow.

A feature that detects when people refer to desktop background pictures as their "screensaver" and promptly delivers an electric shock through the mouse .

Support for the PC Jr. chicklet keyboard. It's always been my favorite and I miss using it.

I would prefer it be called "Kitten" or at least allow for an optional login which features lots of pictures of cute little kittens throughout the GUI and major apps. It should also randomly make meow noises in the background. That would be so darling.

More advertising integrated into the OS to lower the price. I'd gladly save a couple dollars on the price if all I had to do was watch comercials for Charmin and such before being allowed to do things like delete files or send an email.

Bring back push technology. I don't know what ever happened to Pointcast, but we really need things like updated sports scores, news,weather, and a stock ticker running on the desktop at all times and using lots of bandwidth. It just makes life better.

I think Apple should consider making Tiger free intially, but pay as you go to use it. M$ is moving towards subscriptions but this would go one better. Apple could charge a few cents for things like creating a folder or opening a window. It would be great if it could ask you to confirm that you want to do each one of these things, and then charge it to your credit card or better yet, deduct it directly from your bank account. It would also help people be more efficient in their computing, i.e. do you really need to empty your trash 5 times today? If you were charged each time, you would dare waste the extra time and money and would ultimately be more productive.

These are just a few of the things I expect Tiger to have. If not, I'm going to through all my macs out the window and tell all my friends, meaning my mentally impaired 3rd cousin and my grandmother, never to buy a mac!

 

[xtekdiver]

Jobs will have a special guest with him on stage. None other than that Roy, or was it Sigfried, guy who almost got his head ripped off by one of his "pet" tigers. He will be demo-ing a new access feature allowing users to operate OS 10.4 when they have no face.

Oh, a demo of Tiger on a new headless G5 Mac by Sigfried and Roy is too rich! LOL!!!

 

[Colonel Panik]

btw, excuse my ignorance but what's the big deal with text to speech? Is this actually a popular feature? (why?) I mean I'll occasionally have Victoria (Vicki) read me something just to show off the capabilities of my mac, but other than that...

I have rules in Mail that use speech to let me know when a mail comes in that's work related. As I work from home, all my mail comes into the one account, and I just leave the machine on, and a nice little voice tells me when I've got a mail that needs immediate attention.

I also used to have some long long processes running on the Mac, and with energy saver the screen would go black, and if I got an error dialog, or some other feedback dialog, the Finder would read it out after 60 seconds. This meant that I wouldn't come back to the Mac after 4 or 5 hours, expecting a process to be finished, but it was stuck on some dialog.

 

[SiliconAddict]

sorry, longhorn may be out before OS X is a true 64 bit os. look how long it took to completely drop OS 9 support, and people are still using OS 9. Imagine the user ratio of G4s to G5...until it's anywhere near the ratio of OS 9 to OS X users...no 64 bit OS.

Longhorn will NOT be 64-bit optimized. That is a sure thing. They have been so focused on Windows XP SP2 MS has had to actually drop features from Longhorn to try and keep it on sched. If they are dropping features there is NO way they are doing to dink with 64-bit optimizations. My guess? 2007-2009 timeframe. Right now the only 64-bit desktop CPU for the PC is AMD's chip. Intel isn't expecting, AFAIK, anything for a while. Until it hits the mainstream MS isn't going to be in a hurry to rollout a 64-bit OS even though they do have a pure 64-bit version of Windows XP out right now. 64-bit Xp I wouldn't worry to much. Apple has plenty of time to get its 64-bit strategy up and running before MS is even a concern.

 

[VegetaPunk]

I hope the finder is zipper and most of all there are some network performance improvements.

 

[manu chao]

K, Im going to explain it with a timeline so you know what i am talking about... i don't know if you use photoshop on both platforms, but im going to assume that you don't since you don't know what i am talking about.

1ghz G4 Mac Opening up Photoshop CS
(Click On Icon) (Bounce) (Bounce) (Bounce) (Splash Screen/loading prefs, fonts, etc) (In Photoshop)

1ghz P3 WinXP Opening up Photoshop CS
(Click On Icon) (Splash Screen/loading prefs, fonts, etc) (In Photoshop)

I think the main point is how long does the whole thing take. Assuming it takes the same time, what is the difference between 2 seconds of bouncing (I personally like the flashing triangle much more) plus 2 seconds of splash screen on a Mac and 4 seconds of splash screen on Windows.

Actually, you might argue that there is only a 2 seconds splash screen on Windows (maybe, I don't know), then you would have a point, but one could counter that by saying (as others have already done) that you have to start your apps, at least your most common ones (which you don't mind cluttering up the Dock) only once per computer restart.

In principle this is also true on Windows, but it is more difficult to accomplish because, assuming the case of four open browser windows, closing three browser windows and not accidentally also closing the fourth one and instead minimizing it, is not as easy as it sounds.

 

[wizard]

You obviously have not had much exposure to the open source community. Spend a little time on www.freshmeat.net and see what I mean. Sourceforge is another good place to see what is up in the free software community.

Thanks
Dave

How can an acronym have itself in its definition. It just seems wrong. According to a little bit of web research, it seems it originally stood for WINdows Emulator, but later realizing it is not a "true" emulator, developers switched up the acronym.

 

[areyouwishing]

thanks for pointing me to the Dock preferences
I tried and found the black triangle blinks instead,
with the same interval as the bounce

but I think the bounce/blink is not the cause for the slow launch.
just check with the Activity Monitor during apps loading.
Most of the cpu time etc. are spent by the Apps,
not the Dock displaying bounce.
Eliminating bouncing animation won't do much good for launch time

These eye-candies (bouncing, drop shadows, transparent menus)
do not cost much with the powerful Quartz Extreme...

I think everyone thinks im an idiot or something...

I know you can turn off the bounce, my problem is the way the OS talks to the Applications to tell them to launch. Some apps don't have a splash screen, like mail, safari, fetch, itunes, etc. those apps load right after the bouncing is done, which makes sense.

With the more CPU/RAM intensive apps there are splash screens that SHOW YOU WHAT ITS LOADING AND WHEN, my point is that why is there bouncing before these apps load, WHAT IS THE OS THINKING ABOUT TO GET THESE APP'S SPLASH/LOAD SCREENS TO COME UP?

Its easy to compare photoshop on OS X and XP because I have both and the systems are almost identical (spec wise). Even Soundtrack 1.2 takes a few bounces before the splash screen loads, but everything on a PC is click>splash, not like OS X which is Click>Bounce>Splash. There is an extra step for some unknown reason. SOMEONE TELL ME WHY!!!!

 

[wizard]

Now whos to say those prize boxes don't contain G5 cubes?

Lets face it Apple needs a iMac replacement that actually sells to more than just its current customer base. A cube that actually has a price point and feature set acceptable to the rest of us would be very atractive.

Besides it will be a very long year for Appl if they don't come out with something new soon. They may not have the chips to upgrade the G5's but they do have the potential to deliver a much better consumer machine.

Dave

sorry, longhorn may be out before OS X is a true 64 bit os. look how long it took to completely drop OS 9 support, and people are still using OS 9. Imagine the user ratio of G4s to G5...until it's anywhere near the ratio of OS 9 to OS X users...no 64 bit OS.



those would be the prize boxes...unfortunately not new G5 cubes :/.

 

[areyouwishing]

I think the main point is how long does the whole thing take. Assuming it takes the same time, what is the difference between 2 seconds of bouncing (I personally like the flashing triangle much more) plus 2 seconds of splash screen on a Mac and 4 seconds of splash screen on Windows.

Actually, you might argue that there is only a 2 seconds splash screen on Windows (maybe, I don't know), then you would have a point, but one could counter that by saying (as others have already done) that you have to start your apps, at least your most common ones (which you don't mind cluttering up the Dock) only once per computer restart.

The splash is shown less on my PC (3 years old) vs. my mac (6 months old) So all in all, photoshop loads quicker on my 3 year old machine... the reason why is the hard drive speed, but typically once an app is loaded, it uses all memory to open it up a second time.

 

[cgc]

How long until Tiger Woods sues Apple (like Spike Lee sued "Spike TV")?

 

[JGowan]

Command-W

Maybe Tiger will finally fix my occasionally non-working Finder keyboard shortcuts. You know, I like using things like command-w to close a g*ddam window! Argh!

I've NEVER seen command-W not work and I've had OSX beta, X, X.1, X.2 and X.3!

Too Weird.

 

[NusuniAdmin]

Tiger should have these:
-have the long awaited speech compatibility
-Virtual terminal support
-Virtual desktops
-uhhhhhh
-uhhhhhhh
-uhhhhhh
-new expose things??
-Will have new safari version?
-uhhh ok im outta ideas...

 

[Bendit]

I don't think this would be to early....assuming IBM has that 3 ghz beast brewing. If they can work out those bugs in the fab. I really think that 10.4 will be a true 64 bit os. Plus, XP 64 bit will be out this year....It would look good on Steve's half to beat ol' Microcrap to the punch again. I will agree with you on this point that 10.5 will be a 64 bit OS. I just hope it is not the first.

Oh.....then they could filter the slower G5's into the ibook. A G5 1.6 iBook, and a G5 2.8 Powerbook, and dual G5 3.2 Powermac. Makes sense in my book.

I doubt Mac OS would become true 64-but until Mac OS 11. If so, every application will have to be available in two flavours, 32bit and 64bit. They would also have two version of Mac OS. I don't think Apple will ever make their users pic from a selection of programs to be compatible with their computer. They are going to wait until most people have G5s. People are still using Mac OS X on 4 year old computers, so I would say it would take another 4-5 years to be able to transition to 64 bit.

If apple were to go true 64 bit anytime soon it would probably only be for Mac OS X Server and only their server apps (and maybe pro apps) would have 64 bit versions.

 

[dstorey]

But my major request is that they make iChat available for Windows, and able to connect to all the different clients. Being able to iSight with a Windows MSN Messenger user would be cool. Perhaps they could integrate iChat into the OS somehow, coming up with some amazing new ways of using it.

Apart from that, I think that Panther is one cool OS.

I'd love this as I still have some friends on Yahoo! and the uni network only allows MSN, so when I need to do uni work, I have to use MSN...which is so poor on OS X, plus only app I use that has ad's. I have noticed that iChat works in an interesting way though with the ICQ/AIM bridge. If you already have someone in your address book with a AIM name and then add their ICQ number, but tell Address Book that it is a AIM number instead, then not only can you chat to them with ICQ but it only shows up as one buddy in the list, and show them online whichever client they log into. Not had them log into both at the same time, so not sure how it would handle that?

As for integrating iChat into the OS X, isn't it not already in the same way as Address Book and Safari is? Safari uses Web Kit, while I guess that iChat is just an interface to the Instant Messenging Framework. But yeah, if Yahoo, MSN and Jabber could be added and work the same way as ICQ/AIM does then that would be much use to me, plus we could all use this frame work in our own apps that need to communicate with people in sme way...collaberation features in applications anyone?

 

[oliverlubin]

improvements?

i havent read through 9 pages of posts but a few things that can be improved come to mind.

1) installers ignore network drives and iDisk drives. if you ever have a network drive mounted or your iDisk mounted and you run an installer it often kills the installer. Maybe this is for non-apple apps and it's a Installer VISE or whatever problem but it sucks either way.

2) bring back file selection by draging in list mode the way it used to be. make the new method an keyboard+click-drag. let me explain, right now if you are in list mode for a finder window and you select a file and drag down it just keeps selecting everything below that. before in list mode you could click and drag down and it would only select those files that stuck out far enough to overlap the drag erea you just created. i dont know if this is possible any more in 10.3.x and if it is in combination with a keystroke, someone please let me know.

3) improved iDisk speed. it takes FOREVER to send a file up to my iDisk, and about 1/2 as long to get it but still a while. would be great to improve this somehow.

4) built in disk-defragmentation. some low-level system process that will defragment drives on the fly or at user specified times w/o the need to reboot or start from special disks.

5) burn from finder improvements. the whole "create temp image and then burn" sucks and makes burning from the finder take so much longer. same goes for iTunes.

just a few thoughts...

 

[Bendit]

PHP stands for "PHP Hypertext Preprocessor". A more common example of a recursive acronym.

I beleive it was Pre Hypertext Processor.

And now PHP means nothing, they have dropped whatever rumoured name they used to have. PHP means PHP.

 

[Fukui]

To those saying OSX 64-bit wont run 32-bit apps, PowerPC (G5 and up) implements 64bit and 32bit integer/floating point math so in theory, they could test and compile the OS/frameworks and have have fat binaries where a single app can run on a G4 and run the 32-bit binary and on a G5 run the 64 bit binary...and on a G5 system, even on a fully 64-bit Panther/Tiger the 32-bit app can still run just fine because the PowerPC was designed just for this situation.

As a note, darwin has already been ported (not without bugs) to Itanium, so....

 

[Rower_CPU]

I beleive it was Pre Hypertext Processor.

And now PHP means nothing, they have dropped whatever rumoured name they used to have. PHP means PHP.

maintreetmark was right, it's PHP: Hypertext Preprocessor.

Check out the PHP site - it's in the page title as well as in the title tag on the acronym on the left side of the page.

I think we've had enough acronym chat - let's keep in on topic.