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I've been building and overclocking computers for years too!

I now have a Hackintosh.

What does that tell you?

Tells me you aren't very successful and your a piracy advocate? j/k

I would buy a Mac Pro before building another PC or even building a Hackintosh, FYI. Honestly, it gets old after a while - I'll keep my work at work and keep my devices at home as simple as possible.

I would not, however, buy anything more than a baseline Mac Pro - as I'd do with Alienware or any other brand that charges for upgrades without taking into account the deduction of the price of the component you are replacing...which is every brand out there. And that leads me to the real problem, where people compare home built stuff to complete packages from manufacturers. Yes, it will always be cheaper, but Apple's not exactly that much more expensive than the competition. Only when you compare bargain brands instead of the higher end stuff Apple actually competes with.
 
I have to agree with you. Personally, I don't miss USB 3 at all. I'm totaly satisfied with FW800. It may be slower, but I had terrible experiences with USB 2 using up too much CPU on my MBP and lagging during backups.
 
Unless, you have to like reinstall your OS. Actually, installing Hackintosh is faster than installing from media since HDD > DVD.



Didn't really need to source parts at all. Had the PC already.



Hey, me neither, it was as simple as running a script and including a couple of files onto the hard drive.



Sounds like you shouldn't work either, if Easy Life > Saving money.

What a steal! Saving $1000 for an hour of work.

EDIT: BTW, you can't even overclock a Mac Pro. Get back to me when you get your i7 running at 4.2 GHz.

Since he's using a Xeon instead of an i7...you know, workstation class, and can speedstep on 2 cores instead of just one. Then again, as I said, you don't seem to understand what's actually in a Mac Pro.
 
It looks like "slow" people like it slow.

I use FW400. Tried FW800 (Oxford 922 chipset) did not see much of an improvement in speed. USB2.0 is general and fits my needs.

I in no hurry for USB 3.0, it just means I have save more on upgrading all my equipment. So the question comes down to either spend money for USB 3.0 that is still in rev 1.0 or wait till something else leap-frogs it and worth my time and money.

I am sure there are a select group who USB 3.0 will benefit, however if speed = money to your business then I am sure you are not on this forum complaining as you have acquired another solution by now rather than wait for USB 3.0.

If USB 3.0 is introduced on the next iMac, it would make little to no difference to me. For some it might, to many it will add confusion. This was the same argument when :apple: still refuses to adopt eSATA. It is not happening and I am not complaining. Do not like it, buy a PC. :p:D
 
Apple can quiet you all with a single product release. A PCI card that has a dongle stick out the back of the computer with 12 legacy and bleeding edge plug types in it. Or an external pod. A driver to run it, and every PCI based (or Ethernet, FW) Mac could access it.

I like the wild dongle best so if you need the plug bad enough you have to look funny using it too.

Rocketman
 
Light Peak is the way to go. Hopefully it will allow Target Disk Mode (as now possible with FireWire on Mac).
 
They bundle a copper wire along as well.

No they don't. The initial implementations and plan was not to include power. Putting in copper and getting into the power distribution business inhibits one of the features they were going for; distance. Stuff like USB , PCI-e , display busses and to a very large extent even FW (although I doubt they are trying to address FW with Lightpeak) only work over distances like 10m (or less). Lightpeak is suppose to work around 100m.

Additionally, wrapping two disparate cables into one (a fiber and a copper one) will tend to make the cable more expensive and at least thicker.


Powering other devices is a short haul problem. That's at odds with want they wanted to solve. Over very short distances the native protocols work fine. You have a disk sitting inside a computer... you'll use SATA. You won't convert to LP then back to SATA just to run it 6 inches. Likewise if are plugging a USB device directly into a socket on the box.... why add extra costs to convert USB signals to/from LP? All that does is just add costs. No speed improve.... it just costs more. Who wants that? Most people don't want something that is gratuitously more expensive.

If the disk is 5 feet and the USB device is 30 feet away... yeah sure. LP have huge leverage and benefits. That is one problem space Intel aimed this technology at. Likewise if your monitor with its USB hub and cameras/mics are feet from the computer. One wire multiplexing several protocols into one data stream.

Intel said they'd look at maybe putting in copper. That certainly helps with building the "one ring to rule them all" hype that people want to spread about LightPeak. It is a cheesy experiment to do for them since they can just pull the USB 3.0 fiber experiments off the shelf. (just like pulled elements of that off the shelve to do Lightpeak itself. ) USB 3.0 using fiber for the superspeed bus got rejected by a significant number of device implementers due to higher costs. I don't see what about lightpeak makes that better. The laser costs are down but they and cable costs are still higher.

If the objective is to be, as stated by Intel, to be complementary to USB then copper isn't necessary. USB sockets can solve short haul problems and LP the long haul and greater than 5Gbps ones. Makes no sense to try to build one system that spans the entire continuum from mouse to 10TB disk array box. That's a "hammer meet nail" mentality, that is grossly myopic.
What you tend to end up with is a system that does less of everything, than be better than most in a smaller solution space.
 
Picture

I bet many people think that the right one is usb 3.0 and the left one usb 2.0 when in fact they are both usb3.0.
 
On the one hand this sounds like the sort of thing a purely reactive company would say, but on the other Apple are probably right that USB 3 would make no difference to 95% of purchasers.

All those external hard drives, that people buy like hotcakes, are imaginary then.
 
Err. Do read what you quote?



Even as Intel delivers Lightpeak they will still be delivering Ethernet , PCI 3.0 , SATA , and USB, including 3.0 eventually, solutions. There is no need for an exclusive "either or" work here. It is a big multibillion compnay that works on multiple things at once.


Lightpeak doesn't really get rid of any existing protocols. Complementary is substantively different than supersedes or obsoletes.




An Apple monitor with only a LightPeak + Power cable. Sure, Apple Display Connector 2.0. They did it in 2000. It has been over 10 year, it is time for them to do it again. The 3 headed hydra cord shrinking to a 2 headed hydra cord will make them happier. connecting the MBA now with one is kind of sloppy. If they could plug into just two sockets on one side it would be "neater" than it is now.

Also means they get to continue to sell $15-20 dongles if want to connect to vast majority of non Apple monitors too.

You don't grasp the complementary aspect. The interfaces for all those pre-existing protocols can be managed by Lightpeak.

That's the intention of Intel.

From the Overview:

Light Peak Controller Chip
The main component used in Light Peak is the controller chip. The controller chip provides protocol switching capabilities to support multiple protocols over a single cable. Today, to plug a display into a PC, one needs a display cable plugged into a display connector. Likewise, plugging a storage device into a PC requires a different cable and connector. Not so with Light Peak, because the Light Peak controller implements multi-protocol.

Intel will transition to Light Peak and by way of this Multi-Protocol chip leave it up to Vendors to offer a pure Light Peak implementation that support legacy interfaces, to a mixed-use version where there is redundancy to support older hardware and firmware.
 
All those external hard drives, that people buy like hotcakes, are imaginary then.

Or people wouldn't notice the difference in transfer speeds or really care very much. If you're moving a text document to a hard drive, who cares about speed...if you're moving a 20 GB Blu-Ray rip you're going to wait for the file to move, it's a matter of just how long.
 
Apple should be putting more advanced/pro stuff.

They need to put in USB 3.0 AND Lightpeak in Macs.

Also Apple put the Expresscard port back in the 15' MBP's!!! MAKE THE 15' and 17' MBPs have the bigger version, not the smaller one -_-.
 
They need to put in USB 3.0 AND Lightpeak in Macs.

Also Apple put the Expresscard port back in the 15' MBP's!!! MAKE THE 15' and 17' MBPs have the bigger version, not the smaller one -_-.

Why would they want to have USB 3 AND LightPeak when LP can do everything USB does better and faster?

I do agree on the ExpressCard slot though.
 
my reply to sjobs at apple dot com

>We don’t see USB 3 taking off at this time. No support from Intel, for example.

Is this for real? There are USB 3 peripherals all over the place and it's the one thing stopping me from upgrading my four year old MacBook Pro. Just add the NEC chip. If you're serious I think I'll go and buy a Dell. This is sad, you used to be an innovative company.
 
LOL, you actually think the average consumer has more than 2 things plugged into an entry level notebook at one time?

Lets see, the average consumer might have a USB flash drive plugged in and.............ya, exactly.


Apple doesn't sell entry level hardware. Entry level notebooks retail for $500.

The average consumer might like to use a mouse for instance, when at home. Or connect a printer. Or do what ever else USB was invented for. You know, connect stuff.

2 ports is just lame, and there is no excuse for it really. Especially when they are so close together that a big UMTS stick might block the other port and necessitates an ugly extension cord. It doesn't matter much when on the road, but a quickly growing number of people use notebooks as desktop replacement.

And no, not everyone has a Bluetooth mouse and a wireless printer.
 
Why would they want to have USB 3 AND LightPeak when LP can do everything USB does better and faster?

I do agree on the ExpressCard slot though.


Is that a joke. Please direct me to a place where I can buy Lightpeak hardware.
 
Apple doesn't sell entry level hardware. Entry level notebooks retail for $500.

The average consumer might like to use a mouse for instance, when at home. Or connect a printer. Or do what ever else USB was invented for. You know, connect stuff.

2 ports is just lame, and there is no excuse for it really. Especially when they are so close together that a big UMTS stick might block the other port and necessitates an ugly extension cord. It doesn't matter much when on the road, but a quickly growing number of people use notebooks as desktop replacement.

And no, not everyone has a Bluetooth mouse and a wireless printer.

I think it's safe to assume most of the people who pay $1k plus on a notebook do have a bluetooth mouse. Seriously.

Is that a joke. Please direct me to a place where I can buy Lightpeak hardware.

By the time LightPeak is introduced I'm sure it will be more popular.
 
I don't think this means anything more than Apple won't support USB 3.0 until Intel supports USB 3.0. Waiting for official support from Intel simplifies Apple's support and design.
 
Or people wouldn't notice the difference in transfer speeds or really care very much. If you're moving a text document to a hard drive, who cares about speed...


God, some people are so in denial, it actually hurts. It takes bloody ages to copy several GB around. This is noticable and a PITA for even the dumbest computer user. And even the dumbest people have discovered MP3s and AVIs and 14MP cameras by now. Have you ever tried to make a backup of your data to a USB 2 drive? Obviously not.
 
Actually, the air is not a sub 500 computer and it uses a core2duo, not an tom processor. It's a ntoebook, not a netbook. You can do a lot more with it than surf the 'net and wordprocess...not a lot more, but more

Job is just talking about the current situation and products. Mac App Store was never supposed to happen. But it did. Same for Apple netbook, aka 11.6" MBA.

It's still unsure whether Sandy Bridge will support USB 3.0 or not. The latest piece of news from Fudzilla says it will. If it will, then Apple should include USB 3.0 as well. Intel hasn't said a single word about USB in Sandy Bridge so we may have to wait till CES to get the final answer.

If Steve said USB 3.0 is taking off, it might hurt the sales as people would wait for USB 3.0.
 
I think it's safe to assume most of the people who pay $1k plus on a notebook do have a bluetooth mouse. Seriously.

When have you last seen regular computer users?
I assure you most of them don't have BT mice. People don't have a clue what Bluetooth actually is, and they will go out and buy a random cordless mouse that they like. And the majority of mice is actually not Bluetooth.


By the time LightPeak is introduced I'm sure it will be more popular.

It is not even clear WHEN Lightpeak will hit the market and even less when it will see any sort of adoption, being a completely new, incompatible standard requiring fiber optics cables and all. It is very likely that absolutely nothing will happen before 2012. Apparently you have a lot of time at hand. Time you can fill waiting for your data to be copied to your USB 2 drive...
 
No Firewire 3200 Either

The Firewire 3200 standard was completed before USB 3, and it is again faster than USB thanks to the ability to stream data. It is available to be implemented into hardware, but no one is bothering that I know of. Apparently the alternatives are fast enough at this time, such as Firewire 800 for video capture and editing. Meanwhile, USB 2 is 'good enough' for not-speed-critical data transfer. Someday, but not today.

BTW: What's with that clunky USB 3 connector? Come on Intel! Lazy lazy lazy.
 
I don't think this means anything more than Apple won't support USB 3.0 until Intel supports USB 3.0. Waiting for official support from Intel simplifies Apple's support and design.

It also means total disrespect for their customers.
 
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