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Thought you have a point, this will cause end-user confusion and :apple: does not want to confuse the end-user. It's trying to cater to them so they buy more :apple: hardware. A few years ago, when the :apple: store was opening in locations outside the U.S.A., :apple: customers would come in the store with they MacBooks (PowerBooks), iMac, etc and state that the computer was not working with the ext device they had. The reason was that these customers were damaging or breaking the ports on the Mac hardware by forcefully trying to make the plugs fit, even though the wrong end was incorrectly being plugged into the Mac.

Again many people would not have this problem, however there is a quite a margin of customers who makes this common mistake.

What you are recommending :apple: do similar to what HP has done does not fair well. It will simply cause more confusion and more costly repairs for :apple: and its customers. In the end those customers will be angered that :apple: did not make it simple and give a negative user rating. And :apple: loves all the positive feedback it can acquire. :D

I'm sorry, but the whole scenario and reason to try and justify this is lame. Are Macs aimed at slow adults who would force a plug into a hole that doesn't fit? I know you want to defend Apple at all cost, but still.
 
Steve is not dumb he is just waiting on Intel to roll out the Light Peak in 2011 and here is the proof:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDHHM-NsGOo

Around min 1:27, If you carefully listen to Bauer saying that Light Peak will be available in 2011 through OEMs.

So, USB 3.0 is probably just a waste of time at this stage, its better to wait for something better till next year.
 
It's kind of expected, though I think the slow uptake might be a chicken & egg scenario, the biggest maker of chipsets, Intel, isn't including them just yet. There are plenty of drive enclosures now. Once Intel integrates it into their chipset, then I expect the following revisions of Macs to have USB 3. Why Intel is slow to include it, I don't know, Intel is one of the central players in the standard committee, other chip makers have had interface chips for commercial sale about ten months now.
 
This misses the point completely. It's not a matter of Blu-Ray vs streaming.

The point is this: You're currently shipping all Macs except the Air with optical drives. If you're gonna use these drives in the first place, why not make it up to date, supporting the latest and best disc standard for movies, Blu-Ray, instead of just old DVDs?

Downloadable content is all dandy and fine, but that has nothing to do with the optical drive.

The "... but soon it will all be in the cloud!"-card does not excuse using outdated components. If anything, it's actually an argument for leaving out certain components alltogether. In this case, this will for sure happen - eventually.

Meanwhile, almost all Macs still have an optical drive that doesn't support Blu-Ray. This is in late 2010. Unbelievable.

I agree, I love my downloadable content, my streaming etc however I also love running a bluray through FULL HI DEF (1080p) along with uncompressed sound through 7.2 surround sound. For those that have not pumped a very good quality bluray through a great system and TV you are missing out, it is beyond anything that is realistic for streaming at this point in time.
 
Steve Jobs wants to kill USB, wireless mouses and keyboards coming standard with Macs, then you'll see wireless sync as a standard for devices.

I agree that media/information will be delivered wirelessly more and more going forward. BluRay is DOA as Netflix enable its streaming service. Devices will sync wirelessly. The only wire most device needs in the future is a charging/power cord. I wouldn't be surprise the next MacBook Pro will loose its DVD drive.
 
^ what karlwhig said.

Not to mention, physical media isn't going anywhere until internet infrastructure becomes dramatically improved, and storage is cheaper. Imagine how many GBs the LOTR:EE Blu-ray will be when it finally comes out...why would I want it cluttering up a of my hard drive?

Also if you desire blu-ray drives http://www.mcetech.com/blu-ray/. Not every consumer wants blu-ray.

- Bruce

Those drives won't help you play Blu-ray movies because OS X doesn't support it.

As you've heard before "Blu-ray is a bag of hurt", but not meant from the consumer point of view. It’s great to watch movies, but the licensing is so complex. We’re (Apple) waiting until things settle down, and waiting until Blu-ray takes off before the burden is put on the consumer with the cost of licensing.

The licensing has been solved since February of 2009. And stop saying "We," since you obviously don't work for Apple. It's getting annoying.

As for Lightpeak vs. USB 3.0...I don't really care, I just want my iPhone syncs to stop being glacially slow.
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8B117 Safari/6531.22.7)

I can understand SJ not backing Blu-ray, but this seems too looney even for Steve.
 
Very funny. Intel Corporation isn't driving USB 3.0. They are moving toward LightPeak.

Err. Do read what you quote?

Light Peak is complementary to existing I/O technologies,

Even as Intel delivers Lightpeak they will still be delivering Ethernet , PCI 3.0 , SATA , and USB, including 3.0 eventually, solutions. There is no need for an exclusive "either or" work here. It is a big multibillion compnay that works on multiple things at once.


Lightpeak doesn't really get rid of any existing protocols. Complementary is substantively different than supersedes or obsoletes.


I'm betting Apple delivers the first LightPeak systems with support for existing interfaces that slave off of it.

An Apple monitor with only a LightPeak + Power cable. Sure, Apple Display Connector 2.0. They did it in 2000. It has been over 10 year, it is time for them to do it again. The 3 headed hydra cord shrinking to a 2 headed hydra cord will make them happier. connecting the MBA now with one is kind of sloppy. If they could plug into just two sockets on one side it would be "neater" than it is now.

Also means they get to continue to sell $15-20 dongles if want to connect to vast majority of non Apple monitors too.
 
...
One end of the USB3 cable is unique, the other end looks like USB2. If I have a 2010 computer (Mac or PC) that has a USB2 port, I can still plug in a USB3 device. "OH NO! It doesn't move data as fast as it should !!:mad:"

So the customer calls Tech Support to complain. And tech support has the unenviable job of telling the customer that they're an idiot.

...

....
what makes you think that brilliant customer even knows how fast somethings copying, by the sounds of it he or she probably doesn't even know what computer they have.

also, what makes you think that light peak isnt even more confusing to the avg non technical customer? usb 2 devices are compatible with usb 3, it will work with older devices, no usb device will work with light peak.

If your "brilliant customer" doesn't know how fast something is copying, then what's the point in making them pay for something that will not notice. I think the average customer will read on the box "An average movie takes XX minutes to copy with USB2, and only 1/10 the time with USB3". They will plug their USB3 device into their old USB2 port - remember, that backwards compatibility feature - and the movie will still take XX minutes to copy. Unhappy customer. Product goes back to the store as broken. Store clerk as the unenviable task of telling the customer they're an idiot.

What makes Lightpeak not confusing is that once it's adopted widely, you have a peripheral - any peripheral - you plug it into a LP port - any LP port - it works at it's full capacity. In theory 'case we ain't seen the real thing yet.
 
If you are using an ext magnetic HDD, chances are you will see little to no benefit as the bottleneck factor is in play.

You are kidding me right? Most modern day laptop drives will happily read and write at over 70MB/sec. The fastest 3.5" drives will read and write in excess of 150MB/sec.

USB2 is limited to 35-40MB/sec for very well done implementations.
 
As for Lightpeak vs. USB 3.0...I don't really care, I just want my iPhone syncs to stop being glacially slow.

iPhone sync is not constrained by USB 2, there is a weaker point in the chain somewhere. I had taken the size of the backup and divided it by the stopwatch backup time and found it to be about 20Mbps. I had posited that one might be able to sync over WiFi g with negligible speed penalty. I didn't try that with iPhone 4, but it doesn't seem so much faster that USB 2 is now the weak link.

I'd like to see Lightpeak, but I wonder if there's a potential limiting factor for that. USB 3.0 was originally going to have optical connectors, but it was taken out. I understand it to be due to cable/connector cost and complexity. Is Lightpeak going to make it work affordably? I sure hope so, but knowing that little bit of USB 3's development history, I have to wonder. It's not going to catch on if all the cables cost too much.
 
I think Steve Jobs tries a little too hard to be different from the competitors.

No Flash player, Bluray, USB 3, SATA 3??? These technologies will continue to be important whether Apple likes it or not. :rolleyes:

USB 3 and SATA 3 in my i7 hackintosh, but Apple doesn't support them. No drivers. Hopefully someone will make a kext.

The lack of this tech in the Mac Pro proves how overpriced it is.

I spent a $1000 on parts for a now working hackintosh that would've cost me $3500 from Apple.

Obviously you didn't buy the same processors, considering they cost over $1000 on their own OEM. One thing that gets me about people who "compare" the Mac Pro is that they don't realize what's actually in a Mac Pro.
 
If your "brilliant customer" doesn't know how fast something is copying, then what's the point in making them pay for something that will not notice. I think the average customer will read on the box "An average movie takes XX minutes to copy with USB2, and only 1/10 the time with USB3". They will plug their USB3 device into their old USB2 port - remember, that backwards compatibility feature - and the movie will still take XX minutes to copy. Unhappy customer. Product goes back to the store as broken. Store clerk as the unenviable task of telling the customer they're an idiot.

What makes Lightpeak not confusing is that once it's adopted widely, you have a peripheral - any peripheral - you plug it into a LP port - any LP port - it works at it's full capacity. In theory 'case we ain't seen the real thing yet.

I don't know if this is really has to be a problem. For example, if you connect a USB 2 device to a USB 1 port on Windows, the OS gives you a notice that you're going to run slow and you need to use a USB 2 port. It also tells you it will work, just not at its best speed.
 
Obviously you didn't buy the same processors, considering they cost over $1000 on their own OEM. One thing that gets me about people who "compare" the Mac Pro is that they don't realize what's actually in a Mac Pro.

So you're telling me it costs an additional $1200 to upgrade the 3 GB of RAM in the base model Mac Pro to 12 GB.

I can buy 12 GB DDR3 memory kits for $250. That's only a 400% markup!

2 TB 7200 RPM drive for $300? Gimme a break. 100% markup.

An additional Radeon 5770 for $250? lulz. 66% markup.
 
Because Lightpeak (if it ever makes it to manufacturing) appears to require optical cables. Those are more expensive and fragile than wired cables. Unless Intel finds a way of making those more durable, they will be useless for portable devices, for one.

Corning has solved that problem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ClearCurve ). I think there is a demo where the Intel researcher ties the cable into a very loose knot and it still works. This cable is way better than the plastic Tosklink stuff (it is a stretch to compare that to real optical high bandwith cable. ) but worse than the stuff used for long distance communication networks.

It is not however, in the same price range as a simple USB 2.0 cable. USB 3.0 cables are very slightly more expensive since there are really two sets of wires (one for legacy USB 2.0 and one for new SuperSpeed bus, which is not compatible ) in the cable. However, with volume that will shrink.

There is no reason why Lightpeak will get as much traction though. It is not physically compatible in any way with USB 2.0 in anyway. The lasers to pump the data are more expensive also. It is plainly a more expensive solution. It will be less expensive than optical 10+G Ethernet and Infiniband have been till now, but no way it is going to limbo down to USB 2.0 like prices anytime in the next couple of years. By then USB3.0 will have traction and volume to compete.
 
So you're telling me it costs an additional $1200 to upgrade the 3 GB of RAM in the base model Mac Pro to 12 GB.

I can buy 12 GB DDR3 memory kits for $250. That's only a 400% markup!

2 TB 7200 RPM drive for $300? Gimme a break. 100% markup.

Even a lot of die hard Apple fans don't buy Apple's memory and drive upgrades, those can be bought elsewhere.
 
Hmm, wow, a surprise: he blames Intel. Probably couldn't find a reason to blame Google or Adobe.
 
too thick.

it doesn't make any sense for Apple to adopt the USB3 standard when the form factor of the connector itself is thicker than the MacBook Air, and the bodies of all their other laptops.

something better and smaller will come around and it will be the way.
 
About time SJ stood aside and let some other person with vision step in. His views and approach to new technology is starting to allow Apple to lag (badly).
 
it doesn't make any sense for Apple to adopt the USB3 standard when the form factor of the connector itself is thicker than the MacBook Air, and the bodies of all their other laptops.

something better and smaller will come around and it will be the way.

RTFT

:rolleyes:
 
Why are there so many posts about "hoping for hdmi in the future lineup"? Isn't DisplayPort a more advanced interface?
 
Guys you're forgetting something: Apple is no longer a computer builder so dont give a flying <insert animal faeces here> about keeping the Mac line up to date any more.

Wishlist:

- USB3
- Blueray

'What we get list':
- old stuff that should have been removed long ago...bit like Steve really!
 
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