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Steve Talks Up The iPhone?

netdog said:
The market for unlocked phones in the USA is still very small. Providers will generally not unlock them, and there aren't shops on the street who will unlock phones as there are here in Europe.
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T-Mobile will unlock a phone if you've been with them for 3mos. In fact, I've had them unlock 2 phones for me in the first 2 mos I was with them and my friend who still has T-Mobile has had many phones unlocked by T-Mobile.

Cingular, on the otherhand, gave me crap about how unlocking the phone made their network insecure and other BS. They completely refuse to unlock any of their phones.
 
jaxstate said:
Who wants to go through the trouble of doing a software change to unlock their phone.
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Me for one.
I have done it on all my phones. Reason is simple; when I travel outside Norway and will spend more than a week there, I´ll get a local SIM card because it´s so expensive to use my Norwegian phone (both calling and recieving) As I buy my phones locked to a provider in Norway, I have to unlock them to make this work.
Guess this is more relevant in Europe where people tend to visit different countries more often due to small distances
 
Dr.Gargoyle said:
There is a huge difference between an OS and a cellphone standard. Having two cellphone standards is like having two internets. You as a customer have no idea weather you use CDMA or GSM. I dont know about you, but I use my cell for talking end send/receive data. I dont give a rats ass whether this done through code division or time division...
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Yes, but I do notice that my data transfers are about 5x faster on my EVDO phone than on my EDGE phone and I don't get nearly as many dropped calls when switching between towers like I did when I used T-Mobile and Cingular.
 
Apple's reasons for being secretive about product releases don't apply to their potential phone because they don't have a current product which they want people to buy in the meantime. In fact, this time around, it'll be advantageous to Apple for people to know it's coming, as they may hold out for one instead of getting something else. Once there is an iPhone, then they will probably be secretive about the next version.
 
ccrandall77 said:
(according to internetworldstats.com estimates 291mil in Europe use the internet... I'd assume cell usage is similiar).
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First, what makes you think the cellusage is similar to internet????? Mind blowing step here.
Secondly, Europa has 291 million internet users; North america US&Canada 227 milion; Rest of the world 500 million
Hence europe would be close to 30% of the total market???? What about india??? Japan??? china??? come on you cant say jack *** from this statistics
 
jaxstate said:
Who wants to go through the trouble of doing a software change to unlock their phone.
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It is a code you are given to unlock the cell. NOT a software change, unless the carrier changes the entire phone software.
 
Dr.Gargoyle said:
First, what makes you think the cellusage is similar to internet????? Mind blowing step here.
Secondly, Europa has 291 million internet users; North america US&Canada 227 milion; Rest of the world 500 million
Hence europe would be close to 30% of the total market???? What about india??? Japan??? china??? come on you cant say jack *** from this statistics
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China, having bypassed installing a massive landline strucutre, now has enormous GSM network penetration.

India is also a HUGE GSM market.
 
Dr.Gargoyle said:
First, what makes you think the cellusage is similar to internet????? Mind blowing step here.
Secondly, Europa has 291 million internet users; North america US&Canada 227 milion; Rest of the world 500 million
Hence europe would be close to 30% of the total market???? What about india??? Japan??? china??? come on you cant say jack *** from this statistics
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World demographics are not the point. US consumers do not make their cell phone purchasing decisions based on signal standards in 'Europa' or elsewhere.
 
ccrandall77 said:
I don't get nearly as many dropped calls when switching between towers like I did when I used T-Mobile and Cingular.
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You know as well as I do that has to do with the signal, not whether it is Code division or time division. If you claim differently, show me reputable references.
 
Dr.Gargoyle said:
First, what makes you think the cellusage is similar to internet????? Mind blowing step here.
Secondly, Europa has 291 million internet users; North america US&Canada 227 milion; Rest of the world 500 million
Hence europe would be close to 30% of the total market???? What about india??? Japan??? china??? come on you cant say jack *** from this statistics
Click to expand...

So how many people in the world do you think have cell phones? Everyone?!?! Just doing a quick Google search, there were about 1.1billion cell users in the world in 2004. So, maybe it's up to 1.5 - 1.75bil now?

Now if there's ~700mil people in the EU with a workforce just under 400mil strong and internet usage is about 300mil. Ya, it would seem reasonable that roughly the same number of people use cell phones. Do you have a better estimate? I'm sure there's a lot of elderly, children, and poor in the 700mil that use cell phones, eh?

What about India, Japan, China? First of all, India and China have median incomes that are FAR less than the US or EU... so I doubt they have a relatively large cellular user base.

And oh, let me check with my cubemate.... yep, CDMA is used in parts of China.
 
netdog said:
China, having bypassed installing a massive landline strucutre, now has enormous GSM network penetration.

India is also a HUGE GSM market.
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Exactly my point. You cant use those numbers to show anything regarding cellphone shares...
 
ccrandall77 said:
Well only about 1.25bil out of the +6 actually have cell service and I'd suspect only about 300mil in Eurpoe use cell phones (according to internetworldstats.com estimates 291mil in Europe use the internet... I'd assume cell usage is similiar).

And factor in that the US, Canada and many of the other countries with CDMA service are amongst the most wealthy in the world. Those +150mil customers are nothing to sneeze at.
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Well now you ignorant yankie 😉 Firstly the mobile phone penetration in Europe is about 99% or maybe slighly more. You should really travel a bit to get some perspective.

And secondly, GSM has user base of over 1 billion while CDMA as you said has some 60m users. Which one you think would be more interesting market to cover for a new mobile phone manufacturer? And there is really no question of "we'll see which one wins" because GSM won a long long time ago, hands down.
 
I'd wager that what ever they do come out with will be considered a let down, seeing as so much hype is building around it. Its kinda like those supposed summer block-buster movies all hype but doesn't really deliver.

Also I wouldn't be surprised if it only held as many songs as the Rokr or Slvr (if any at all) anything more would threaten to encroach to much on the iPod line, and I don't think apple is dumb enough to do that.

I'd be happier if it replaced my Palm you know a Blackberry killer, since they don't communicate natively only via third party. It would have to have flawless integration with mail and 0 config wi-fi capabilities to make me even consider looking at it.
 
Dr.Gargoyle said:
You know as well as I do that has to do with the signal, not whether it is Code division or time division. If you claim differently, show me reputable references.
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Uh, actually tower handoff has relatively little to do with signal... it's two totally different things.

Want a reference? Is the IEEE reputable enough for you?
http://www.ieee.or.com/Archive/diversity_in_3g/diversity_in_3g.pdf

Page 6: Why CDMA? Allows soft handoffs.

Enuff said.

Care to back up any of your assumptions with reputable references?
 
sjo said:
Well now you ignorant yankie 😉 Firstly the mobile phone penetration in Europe is about 99% or maybe slighly more. You should really travel a bit to get some perspective.

And secondly, GSM has user base of over 1 billion while CDMA as you said has some 60m users. Which one you think would be more interesting market to cover for a new mobile phone manufacturer? And there is really no question of "we'll see which one wins" because GSM won a long long time ago, hands down.
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Are you saying 99% of Europeans use cell phones or that 99% of Europe is cell-ready? If the former, then there must be a ton of kids yapping it up on the wireless. 😉
 
i just want a cell phone that works.

all these phones today(by all these phones i mean the motorolas i have had, so mayby motorola's jsut suck) have this ridiculous amount of latency when you are navigating the menus. cause they have to have all this fancy crap flyin around. its like phones are using the same technology from 5 years ago but they are just piling these features into them so they dog down. overall phones today seem to suck just a bit. my nokia 8260 was the best phone i ever had and it was monochrome with no camera or video or stupid crap like that...

plus it seems that my phones ability to get reception when inside a building has gotten worse over time too. i used to get good reception inside my work, but now i don't. and its the same building.

so all in all, just give me a phone that works and functions well and i'll be happy.
 
sjo said:
Well now you ignorant yankie 😉 Firstly the mobile phone penetration in Europe is about 99% or maybe slighly more. You should really travel a bit to get some perspective.

And secondly, GSM has user base of over 1 billion while CDMA as you said has some 60m users. Which one you think would be more interesting market to cover for a new mobile phone manufacturer? And there is really no question of "we'll see which one wins" because GSM won a long long time ago, hands down.
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I don't need to travel to know that >99% mobile phone penetration is complete BS. Are you trying to say that EVERYONE in Europe has a cell phone?

Well using the Dr's stat, GSM is 81% of the market. A good chunk of the remaining 19% is CDMA. So roughly 1/5th of the market, with much of that market in affluent areas, uses CDMA. I stand by my statement that it's a significant market that Apple would be foolish to pass on.
 
ccrandall77 said:
So how many people in the world do you think have cell phones? Everyone?!?! Just doing a quick Google search, there were about 1.1billion cell users in the world in 2004. So, maybe it's up to 1.5 - 1.75bil now?

Now if there's ~700mil people in the EU with a workforce just under 400mil strong and internet usage is about 300mil. Ya, it would seem reasonable that roughly the same number of people use cell phones. Do you have a better estimate? I'm sure there's a lot of elderly, children, and poor in the 700mil that use cell phones, eh?

What about India, Japan, China? First of all, India and China have median incomes that are FAR less than the US or EU... so I doubt they have a relatively large cellular user base.

And oh, let me check with my cubemate.... yep, CDMA is used in parts of China.
Click to expand...
Well, I dont know where to begin... I work in science and you have to trust me when I say that you can't deduct anything from the "facts" you have. You are guessing.
The fact is that GSM has 81% of the world market... and that makes cdma a small market.
 
deconai said:
Are you saying 99% of Europeans use cell phones or that 99% of Europe is cell-ready? If the former, then there must be a ton of kids yapping it up on the wireless. 😉
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I'm saying that every one and their dog has a cell phone in Europe. Really. Quite literally. http://www.environmental-studies.de/products/Dog-Tracking/dog-tracking.html 😉

As soon as the kids goes to school they will get a phone and many people have several and machines utilizing mobile phones are getting more common, so in many countries the penetration number is now more than 100%.
 
jmsait19 said:
i just want a cell phone that works.

all these phones today(by all these phones i mean the motorolas i have had, so mayby motorola's jsut suck) have this ridiculous amount of latency when you are navigating the menus. cause they have to have all this fancy crap flyin around. its like phones are using the same technology from 5 years ago but they are just piling these features into them so they dog down. overall phones today seem to suck just a bit. my nokia 8260 was the best phone i ever had and it was monochrome with no camera or video or stupid crap like that...
Click to expand...

I used to have a Motorola loaded with everything but the kitchen sink (that is, until my wife decided to wash it in the washing machine 😛 ). I got a cheap Samsung SGH-E317 to replace it and I swear it works 100% faster than my Moto. It seems to receive the signal stronger as well.
 
Dr.Gargoyle said:
Well, I dont know where to begin... I work in science and you have to trust me when I say that you can't deduct anything from the "facts" you have. You are guessing.
The fact is that GSM has 81% of the world market... and that makes cdma a small market.
Click to expand...
It's called an estimate... a scientist should know what that is. Care to dispute, then provide your own "facts". I also have a science background... big whoppde do! And I standby my assumption that the amount of internet usage is probably a good gauge of cell phone usage.

+15% of +1.5bil is hardly small. It may be in the minority, but +150mil people from affluent countries is a very profitable market.
 
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