Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Steve Wozniak on Apple, Leopard and Jailbreaking the iPhone
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Personally, I have one ring tone. Its very different. I like it that way because I know its my phone rather than someone elses ( i.e., RING RING )
However, there are a great many people who like ring tones. It sucks for people like you who don't like varied ring tones, but you'll just have to live with it
.Apple's ring tone policy is anti-consumer ( having to pay multiple times for products you have *legally* purchased ).
The ring tones is completely apple being greedy. ATT clearly does not have an issue with it because all their phones allow it.
Also the ring tone only is allowed if you own the song that you bought from the iTMS. If you have not done that you have to buy the song and then pay another $1 to make it a ring tone ($2.00 total). On top of that it only works if apple allows that song to be made into a ring tone.
The rings tones I used my my cell phone you could not get from iTMS even if I wanted to because I made them out of a song that no where sells it. iTMS sure as hell does not have it. or I got it from sony for free and transfered it to my new phone.
People try to pin this on ATT but ATT is not going to get a penny of that ring tone money. Apple gets it.
Speaking as a former employee of Sony, there's absolutely no question that's the case. Whatever innovation which Sony once stood for has been undercut and compromised by what they've become in the years since Morita-san's departure from that company.
They've ceased being a pioneer, a leader, an innovator or anything else positive and have, instead, turned into an all-consuming monster. And if you laugh at the visual image of some cheezy Japanese monster movie which that description brings, please know I'm not speaking figuratively, but rather in an unfortunately quite literal sense.
Sony has compensated for their lack of vision with a merciless power-grab. Look how much of the electronics industry they control. Look how much of the entertainment industry they control. The only thing keeping a company the size of Sony going so long and so well is the sheer amount of revenue they bring in through these other means. The Playstation group used to do this, but then Sony butchered that, too, and came out with the PS III, which to this day is eating away at Sony's bottom line, to say nothing of their pre-eminent status amongst console game platforms.
In short, to paraphrase Lt. Pete Mitchell (Maverick)'s CO from Top-Gun, Sony is writing checks it's body can't cash.
They've ceased being a pioneer, a leader, an innovator or anything else positive and have, instead, turned into an all-consuming monster. And if you laugh at the visual image of some cheezy Japanese monster movie which that description brings, please know I'm not speaking figuratively, but rather in an unfortunately quite literal sense.
Sony has compensated for their lack of vision with a merciless power-grab. Look how much of the electronics industry they control. Look how much of the entertainment industry they control. The only thing keeping a company the size of Sony going so long and so well is the sheer amount of revenue they bring in through these other means. The Playstation group used to do this, but then Sony butchered that, too, and came out with the PS III, which to this day is eating away at Sony's bottom line, to say nothing of their pre-eminent status amongst console game platforms.
In short, to paraphrase Lt. Pete Mitchell (Maverick)'s CO from Top-Gun, Sony is writing checks it's body can't cash.
As far as ringtones go - AT&T is not the only partner Apple has to deal with, there are also the record companies. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple is charging for ringtones and locking down the installation process because the record companies are applying a lot of pressure. Ringtones are a multi-billion dollar industry and I'll bet they are loathe to give up on that revenue source. Greedy bastards.
I happen to disagree, but respect your point of view and the democratic process.
We as consumers need to:
1) Let apple know by writting to them
2) Vote with our wallet, by not purchasing software or hardware that does not meet our needs / expectations.
3) Understand that like it or not, the prime directive of a corporation it's is shareholders.
4) Understand that no matter how much of a fan we are, the product they are selling with the specific conditions is the way it is, and that we may not be the primary target/market. Apple is going to try to satisfy and provide the features for that particular product primary market.
Once again, vote with your wallet.
While he may not have a lot of pull inside of Apple, He has a lot of pull with the masses and can rally the troops.
Given that he should always be responsible with his comments as they can take life of their own.
He can't, Jobs is marketting and has always been, WOZ is creativity. I remember a company (DEC) that had a superior CPU, the company was full of creative types and went under because they could not market the chip.
Woz is the bomb! He's awesome!
Any one who says bad stuff about him, obviously doesn't know what they are taking about.
WOZ church is around the corner, don't drink the coolaid.
This is a good example of why when Woz talks, it may cause damage to Apple and why he needs to be very responsible and choose his words.
If Woz was in charge, the company would go under, he is not a Marketing guy.
Apple does well because they find ways for people to want their product even if the product does not fit a need or is perfect.
Hah, I know Steve's game. "3rd party applications" are being held back because they'll be a major touted feature for the iPhone2, he will announce it at one of the special events and everyone will cheer and do a standing ovation - result: it looks like a major new feature
Uhm, he announced it via a press release like two weeks ago. Where were you?
Personally, I have one ring tone. Its very different. I like it that way because I know its my phone rather than someone elses ( i.e., RING RING )
However, there are a great many people who like ring tones. It sucks for people like you who don't like varied ring tones, but you'll just have to live with it
Apple's ring tone policy is anti-consumer ( having to pay multiple times for products you have *legally* purchased ).
I am looking for a digitized version of the ring tone for the old crank phones. Works for me.
It wasn't until I read your post and saw that quote for the second time that I realized how absurd that quote is. Especially given the context of where I'm reading it and where it was originally given. But let's ignore that for the time being.
How it will work for someone who knows nothing about the computer? What is he talking about there? Is he refering to hardware or software? I thought the trend in computing lately was to make data more accessible no matter where it is in the machine. Isn't that what computers are for? To hold our information, our files, our data until we want to do something with it? The basics of computer operation are such that people can jump from Windows to Mac OS X to Linux and still have a basic idea of how to get around the system. Linux has to have a GUI installed and active but isn't that what we were moving towards anyway? Abstraction then interaction.
The quote sounds nice but it doesn't mean anything. What are the real dreams? And whose dreams are they? If they're not being implemented then why isn't something done about it? If they're so meaningful then they should sell shouldn't they?
I don't get it. Maybe I don't get Apple, Inc. All I know is I've got no problem with my MacBook Pro, on the whole, and I don't have an iPhone. Maybe I am ignorant to the promise of technology. Someone enlighten me.
Why does everyone seem to think Woz is creative? Woz is a good engineer, a great engineer. But creative?.. No, not at all.
Steve Jobs was the visionary, always was and always will be. Without his vision of what the PC should be we never would have had the Mac. He was the driving force behind all of what makes Apple so great today- OS X, the iPod/iPhone family, the Mac. Not only did he have the vision, but the keen business sense to reinvigorate the Apple brand through marketing, opening retail stores, etc..
Woz could have NEVER done what Jobs has done with Apple in the last 10 years. This is why Jobs is at the helm of one of the fastest growing companies in tech, and Woz is playing with laser pointers and talking about the pranks he likes to pull.
Steve Jobs was the visionary, always was and always will be. Without his vision of what the PC should be we never would have had the Mac. He was the driving force behind all of what makes Apple so great today- OS X, the iPod/iPhone family, the Mac. Not only did he have the vision, but the keen business sense to reinvigorate the Apple brand through marketing, opening retail stores, etc..
Woz could have NEVER done what Jobs has done with Apple in the last 10 years. This is why Jobs is at the helm of one of the fastest growing companies in tech, and Woz is playing with laser pointers and talking about the pranks he likes to pull.
Wow ... lots of opinions here...
I think Wozniak said some true things, and I think it has put Jobs in a delicate position that makes him like a little like a hypocrite.
As far as the AT&T ring tone thing, don't you have to buy those through iTunes? Therefore isn't Apple getting that money not AT&T? (Seriously, its a question, not being smug.)
All this being said, Apple has really turned things around over the last 5 or so years. Is Jobs the only person at Apple to give that credit to?. No. Jobs is not Apple. Can you say that Wozniak couldn't have done the same thing with Apple? No. Once again one person does not do all the designing, marketing, production, and creative thinking that runs the entire company.
I agree completely with Wozniak when he said that computers have "lost their way" (my paraphrase). All OS' GUIs are so eye-candy covered that their main goal is to win over any user - and the development of programs, utilities etc., that do what the end user wants to do have been put on a hold for several years by the main OS developers. Hence, the dire need for 3rd party software.
That's just all my opinion - take it or leave it.
I think Wozniak said some true things, and I think it has put Jobs in a delicate position that makes him like a little like a hypocrite.
As far as the AT&T ring tone thing, don't you have to buy those through iTunes? Therefore isn't Apple getting that money not AT&T? (Seriously, its a question, not being smug.)
All this being said, Apple has really turned things around over the last 5 or so years. Is Jobs the only person at Apple to give that credit to?. No. Jobs is not Apple. Can you say that Wozniak couldn't have done the same thing with Apple? No. Once again one person does not do all the designing, marketing, production, and creative thinking that runs the entire company.
I agree completely with Wozniak when he said that computers have "lost their way" (my paraphrase). All OS' GUIs are so eye-candy covered that their main goal is to win over any user - and the development of programs, utilities etc., that do what the end user wants to do have been put on a hold for several years by the main OS developers. Hence, the dire need for 3rd party software.
That's just all my opinion - take it or leave it.
Woz should still be employed by Apple at certain levels of development. While his business views might be concurrent with a teenager, or his 1974 persona, his ideas of computers' functions are extremely valid. Most of the computer market is oriented to computers as a lifestyle instead of computers as a tool to accentuate non-technical people. Apple is going in that direction, but should make even greater strides and separate almost completely from the dopey nerd-pack.
iPod,iTunes,iPhone....
All i can see happening with apple ever since the above named 3 is Greedyness, 85% market share means power, and as always , absolute power corrupts absolutly , i thought steve and apple were above that but the proof that they aren't is there to be seen all over the place, just look at the prices in EUROS, it has been long proven that that is not only Taxes.
Ringtones, And locked phones, i'll stillbe bying all of it but i really dislike the greedyness of the Apple companie.
All i can see happening with apple ever since the above named 3 is Greedyness, 85% market share means power, and as always , absolute power corrupts absolutly , i thought steve and apple were above that but the proof that they aren't is there to be seen all over the place, just look at the prices in EUROS, it has been long proven that that is not only Taxes.
Ringtones, And locked phones, i'll stillbe bying all of it but i really dislike the greedyness of the Apple companie.
Gah! It's not about PAYING for a ringtone that's an issue, it's about not being able to use your OWN ringtone that is. I would gladly pay for software to put a ringtone of my own creation on my cell phone, and would even consider paying for the "service" to convert a audio file to a ringtone. The fact that you can only do this with a select number of songs (not even sounds) on iTunes does not satisfy my desire for a ringtone that is unlike everyone else's.
Is it right to charge $3/ringtone that I own the rights to, one of my own creation? That's a decision that the market will determine.
rockosmodurnlif said:
I think that the quote means that Woz wanted the comupter to be an enabler to the dreams of the users, rather than force the users to become computer experts in order to realize their dreams. This is done by making them easier to use, but also has to be balanced by making sure that the features are rich enough to fully realize them. This is often down through third-party applications.
-jt2
I am with you man. I can't believe people here are complaining about Jobs. Must be a bunch of teenagers that did not know about Gil Amelio and Apple's troubles prior to Jobs comeback. Apple is healthy and doing fantastic. I hope Jobs stay leading Apple for years to come.
but a lot of people forget about when Jobs was fired. Jobs needed to be fired from apple back then. He was going to kill the company if he was not removed. Even Steve Jobs agrees that when he was fired from apple it was the right thing to do.
To me Jobs seems good at getting a company off the ground and starting it up but when it become successful and larger he fails to have to adapt to the new rules of the game. The very strong interlinking between apple stuff start backfiring after a while and starts becoming the undoing. I think Jobs fails when it comes to that part.
This is why I think it time for Jobs to announce he is retiring/stepping down from CEO. If he does it right it not going to really phase the stock prices or the company much at all. Just announce when he plans on handing over the reins to some new like a year away. This gives remove the shock factor.
well said...
You said it right. Lets look at the quotes from the interview:
"The real dreams of how it will work for someone who knows nothing about the computer have been lost and don't get addressed anymore."
Well, why don't you address it then? Anybody could be saying that. It does not mean they are geniuses. Seriously, this guy was a great engineer, but not a visionary. And what has he done after the Apple I, II, and some limited influence on the Macintosh? I know what he does now, and it is great, but although it helps us all, as human beings, (his altruist job is remarkable), it has no impact in the computer industry, and it has been like that for a long time.
Just look at this other quote for the interview:
"Question: Beyond touch, how would you like to see user interfaces evolve?
SW Answer: I don't think anything revolutionary is close on the horizon, but I guess you never know. I didn't think the iPhone would be as pleasing. I was really surprised. Eventually, I would love a little computer with a camera that recognizes me, and I can throw a lot of little gestures at it, and it responds to what I say and do. It will be very hard to create a computer that can understand our voice and our rhythm."
Is that supposed to be a great visionary of the computer industry that will take Apple to the next level? that answer certainly cannot be one to tag as ingenious.
And about his rant on the iPhone being closed, etc., as I said before, Apple had things planned long ago. They are not talking about an SDK because of the pressure from the whiners, I mean hackers, etc. they just wanted to do it right, and that is what they said since day one.
As for ring-tones, it is not Apple's decision to charge for it. In this digital era of greedy labels trying to survive, it is in their legal definition of fair use that you cannot use your music for such thing. That is why they sell you the ring-tone capability as extra. In fact, that is something usually sold at a higher price by other cellular companies. Additionally, I read somewhere that the artists actually fought for this one with the record labels, since they wanted to control and sell the ring tones directly, but it was concluded that the labels had the rights on the music and its uses, or something to that effect. The one thing that Apple could have done, though, is to implement the ring tone builder to work on music that has no DRM protection. I guess the problem is that labels are already selling music without DRM and they still consider the ring-tone usage as something outside of their fair use agreement. Anyway, I think Apple could have done something else so you can create your own ring-tones using whatever you like, Garage Band, a microphone, etc.m but that is about it. And that whole ring-tone thing is more of a popular trend that will fade in a couple of years, or at least until those users grow up. (No offense to heavy ring-tone users)
You said it right. Lets look at the quotes from the interview:
"The real dreams of how it will work for someone who knows nothing about the computer have been lost and don't get addressed anymore."
Well, why don't you address it then? Anybody could be saying that. It does not mean they are geniuses. Seriously, this guy was a great engineer, but not a visionary. And what has he done after the Apple I, II, and some limited influence on the Macintosh? I know what he does now, and it is great, but although it helps us all, as human beings, (his altruist job is remarkable), it has no impact in the computer industry, and it has been like that for a long time.
Just look at this other quote for the interview:
"Question: Beyond touch, how would you like to see user interfaces evolve?
SW Answer: I don't think anything revolutionary is close on the horizon, but I guess you never know. I didn't think the iPhone would be as pleasing. I was really surprised. Eventually, I would love a little computer with a camera that recognizes me, and I can throw a lot of little gestures at it, and it responds to what I say and do. It will be very hard to create a computer that can understand our voice and our rhythm."
Is that supposed to be a great visionary of the computer industry that will take Apple to the next level? that answer certainly cannot be one to tag as ingenious.
And about his rant on the iPhone being closed, etc., as I said before, Apple had things planned long ago. They are not talking about an SDK because of the pressure from the whiners, I mean hackers, etc. they just wanted to do it right, and that is what they said since day one.
As for ring-tones, it is not Apple's decision to charge for it. In this digital era of greedy labels trying to survive, it is in their legal definition of fair use that you cannot use your music for such thing. That is why they sell you the ring-tone capability as extra. In fact, that is something usually sold at a higher price by other cellular companies. Additionally, I read somewhere that the artists actually fought for this one with the record labels, since they wanted to control and sell the ring tones directly, but it was concluded that the labels had the rights on the music and its uses, or something to that effect. The one thing that Apple could have done, though, is to implement the ring tone builder to work on music that has no DRM protection. I guess the problem is that labels are already selling music without DRM and they still consider the ring-tone usage as something outside of their fair use agreement. Anyway, I think Apple could have done something else so you can create your own ring-tones using whatever you like, Garage Band, a microphone, etc.m but that is about it. And that whole ring-tone thing is more of a popular trend that will fade in a couple of years, or at least until those users grow up. (No offense to heavy ring-tone users)
Apple should hand out free puppies with every Macbook sold in any retail location. Give me a promotion!
Will never happen- Woz, was-- he is a not now and never will be.
He is not a luminary, has little vision and could never make a product that would be useful. His utility left him many moons ago.
Put SJ and him side by side and you have NO comparison.
Are you serious! Steve Wozniak remains me of my mother -- lovely lady, but give me a brake.