Still unconvinced...convince me?

[HEK]

That is because there is an equal and opposite vehemence by anti-jailbreakers as to the wrongness of jailbreaking - as if what we are doing is both illegal and unethical. Just because Apple has decided that it voids warranty.

Spurious accusations such as jailbreakers only do this to commit piracy or that somehow the act of jailbreaking immediately compromises the device.

One person on here even took us to task becuase we were "violating" the EULA and for him that was akin to breaking a law.

Those people and their arguments are just as unpersuasive as the jailbreak arguements. I object to statements that for whatever reasons Apple is somehow doing wrong by providing what majority of customers want. There will always be a vocal minority for whom the path they take will end civilization as we know it.

There is no need for either side to convince the other regarding the rightness of their choice. This begins to take on traits of a religious war. No need for jihad from either side. Can't you just see the NSA servelance software lighting up with the use of the word jihad.

 

[convergent]

And that scares me somewhat.

I'm a PowerPC user since System 7 and on into OS X. I am used to being able to customize my Mac the way I wish, which is one of the reasons I latched onto jailbreaking as quick as I did when I got my first iPhone.

But with El Capitan, Apple is implementing System Integrity Protection (SIP). This prevents any modification of underlying UNIX folders on a Mac system. Right now you can turn it off, but in the future? Who knows. If Apple is truly gravitating towards their own ecosystem then I can see a day where just like iOS, the only thing you can customize on a Mac is your wallpaper and where you place your icons. Installing an app will mean it comes from the app store and not a downloadable installer.

Now, most people will ask why you'd want to mess around with the underlying UNIX folders on a Mac. Customization. But Apple wants to ensure that every install looks exactly the same - so there goes any customization of the OS.

This is one reason my MP at work is not upgraded to El Capitan and one reason I continue to stick with PowerPC Macs at home.

If Apple ever does get there entirely (in locking everything down) then I will indeed be looking at a different manufacturer for my devices.

Innovation is great, but for me, the price of not being able to customize my device is too great.

To Apple, safety and stability often overrules flexibility and customizability. I'm a pretty tech savvy person and Android to me is just way too complex and has way to many "shoot yourself in the foot" landmines for where I'm at in my desires of a device and system. Its a tool. I want it to just work.

If you want to jailbreak, go for it. If you want Android, go for it. I like that there are different options and choices. As for the rightness or wrongness of jailbreaking, I think it largely falls in these same category as people that freely use all of Googles ecosystem but then want to block their ability to let them access and use your data... which is how they make money. I think that Apple has a cat and mouse relationship where they tolerate it, but make sure to keep it difficult so that the masses don't all of a sudden start doing it. If everyone with an iPhone were able to have access to jailbreaking, then I would say that Apple's support infrastructure would collapse from all the people who had no idea what they were doing blowing everything up. It would also likely collapse if they had to support the complex world of Android with all the different hardware/software combinations. Again, this is the same with Microsoft vs. Apple for PCs... the same different models exist.

I fully expect Apple to go more in the direction you say scares you. Its what the majority of those buying Apple want... its their value proposition vs. the competition. Its what they'd done for 20-30 years. I don't see them suddenly changing. Rather than live in a jailbreak world perpetually, I think I'd probably rather be on Android where I don't need two worry about my world constantly being blocked by an update.

 

[Laserducky]

There is no Apple iPhone without iOS, and there is no Apple innovation in the iPhone without innovation in iOS.

This again proves my point... Apple doesn't approach this the way that Google or the Jailbreakers do. And I'd also go so far to say that it doesn't stop at the hardware and iOS... its the whole Apple ecosystem including iCloud, Siri, Apple Pay, Apple Music, Macs, iTunes, Apple TV... etc.. heck you can even include AirPort Routers. Its an ecosystem that they continue to evolve. The more you buy into it, the better the experience and more innovation you can tap into.

Apple has no interest in the individual merits of the OS vs. some other OS. Its not their game. They are after the whole being greater than the parts... which it definitely is.

This definitely contributed to my dissatisfaction with Android... dropping it into an existing Apple ecosystem... but it wasn't the main reason I gave up on Android (for now). It was more the myriad of things that left it being a bit kludgey, insecure, and way to "high maintenance" for my taste. Google too has an ecosystem of essentially free stuff they give away to get you bought in and providing them the user data that is how they make their money.

Google is into freebies but all they want in exchange is your data. Photos,locations et al.

Of course there's going to be a trade-off between sharing more data with Google (or Faceboook etc for that matter) and one's privacy.

Its a matter of choice to the user : what balance they want to strike regarding their online life.

Cheers!

 

[angel76ph]

For the record i still stand by (some) of my suggestions or what you call "complaints". Do appreciate your replies and i'm sorry if i was rude to anyone but you know I did my research and did have an iPhone 6 in the past so that is why i changed the tone & questioning of my thread into somewhat of a "challenge" to you guys if you can advice/provide me with workarounds on those "complaints".

I have a Mac and i love it. Had it for 3 years now. Never going back to Windows. My Mac does everything simple & fast and what i need in life & work. But i must admit though this "locked" OS in the form of iOS on phones and tablets isn't helping Apple i think. I can understand they want a "seamless, closed" environment (e.g. seeing your Notes from a Mac to your iPhone, etc.) but i guess Android & Windows are also as guilty as Apple. In that respect.

I think Apple's success (& innovation) is partly because of fancy names & language used on their Keynotes and hardware. Apple Pay is just NFC. But it's "locked" to paying for goods, not transferring files like with Android. Mind you i don't use NFC that much on my Android but it's a welcome addition to a device in case one need in the future like the upcoming Samsung/Android Pay.

Apple also should also be careful with their product "innovations" because they will be accused of hypocrisy. Why? Well some features...c'mon guys admit it...has been copied or taken from other platforms. Yes Apple might innovate but they have to be careful. (Read: History of complaints vs Samsung et al)

I did hear that Google mines/keeps/stores data to sell to other 3rd-parties. I would be mad of course. I'm somewhat less worried in a way as i don't use my phone to do bank transactions or voice out my "day at work" on a social network site or search on stuff relating to terrorism, etc. But if i use Google Now, Photos, Google+ on an iPhone will that make me as "less secure" as i'm using a Google product?

And btw, i still haven't made up my mind yet. Still looking for a 6/6S (or Plus) on Ebay.

 

[convergent]

For the record i still stand by (some) of my suggestions or what you call "complaints". Do appreciate your replies and i'm sorry if i was rude to anyone but you know I did my research and did have an iPhone 6 in the past so that is why i changed the tone & questioning of my thread into somewhat of a "challenge" to you guys if you can advice/provide me with workarounds on those "complaints".

I have a Mac and i love it. Had it for 3 years now. Never going back to Windows. My Mac does everything simple & fast and what i need in life & work. But i must admit though this "locked" OS in the form of iOS on phones and tablets isn't helping Apple i think. I can understand they want a "seamless, closed" environment (e.g. seeing your Notes from a Mac to your iPhone, etc.) but i guess Android & Windows are also as guilty as Apple. In that respect.

I think Apple's success (& innovation) is partly because of fancy names & language used on their Keynotes and hardware. Apple Pay is just NFC. But it's "locked" to paying for goods, not transferring files like with Android. Mind you i don't use NFC that much on my Android but it's a welcome addition to a device in case one need in the future like the upcoming Samsung/Android Pay.

Apple also should also be careful with their product "innovations" because they will be accused of hypocrisy. Why? Well some features...c'mon guys admit it...has been copied or taken from other platforms. Yes Apple might innovate but they have to be careful. (Read: History of complaints vs Samsung et al)

I did hear that Google mines/keeps/stores data to sell to other 3rd-parties. I would be mad of course. I'm somewhat less worried in a way as i don't use my phone to do bank transactions or voice out my "day at work" on a social network site or search on stuff relating to terrorism, etc. But if i use Google Now, Photos, Google+ on an iPhone will that make me as "less secure" as i'm using a Google product?

And btw, i still haven't made up my mind yet. Still looking for a 6/6S (or Plus) on Ebay.

No worries... all fun on a forum. I'm sure I came across rude too at times, but wasn't really my intention.

The Mac world is part of the same "closed" environment in many ways. The notable exception being that it predated the App Store concept, so that leaves a fairly wide opening for people to load whatever they want.

My point on Apple Pay is that NFC was around and really went nowhere until Apple "did it right". Remember all the stores that didn't even realize they had it enabled and then turned it off as soon as iPhones started supporting it. Apple has a tendency to NOT adopt features as quickly as others... they are waiting back to try and work it into their overall system in a better way. Sometimes they get it right... sometimes they don't for sure. Apple Maps comes to mind.

The copying of things isn't new in technology either. Both Gates and Jobs heisted the mouse, GUI, and network from Xerox. So basically the foundation of modern computing was copied. The difference is that Microsoft and Apple were able to do something with it in a way that made a difference. Just like I said that smartphones had been around for at least 5 years doing all that an iPhone did, but it wasn't until Apple stepped in that it moved to the masses. Prior to that, it was just a niche. They are trying to do that now with the Watch... not quite there yet, but they've gone further with it than anyone else. If history repeats, the second version of the watch will the breakout version.

 

[eyoungren]

My point on Apple Pay is that NFC was around and really went nowhere until Apple "did it right".

Remember my earlier post about NFC being around for awhile?

I have to disagree with you on your comment that it really went nowhere.

Speedpass was introduced in 1997 by Mobil Oil. NFC to pay with a keyfob was around ten years before the first iPhone. Perhaps it was limited to just your Mobil card and payment at Mobil at the time, but it did not go "nowhere". NFC expanded from that.

Sure, Apple has a better implementation but I don't believe that previous NFC implementations were poor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedpass

 

[convergent]

Remember my earlier post about NFC being around for awhile?

I have to disagree with you on your comment that it really went nowhere.

Speedpass was introduced in 1997 by Mobil Oil. NFC to pay with a keyfob was around ten years before the first iPhone. Perhaps it was limited to just your Mobil card and payment at Mobil at the time, but it did not go "nowhere". NFC expanded from that.

Sure, Apple has a better implementation but I don't believe that previous NFC implementations were poor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedpass

Compare how widespread mobile payments had been used in other than niches (I would call a single gas card a niche) from 1997 until 2014 vs. the number of providers and merchants that Apple has signed up from 2014 until now. That was my point. When Apple finally jumps into something, they often disrupt the market. I think that applies to Apple Pay.

 

[eyoungren]

Compare how widespread mobile payments had been used in other than niches (I would call a single gas card a niche) from 1997 until 2014 vs. the number of providers and merchants that Apple has signed up from 2014 until now. That was my point. When Apple finally jumps into something, they often disrupt the market. I think that applies to Apple Pay.

I think then we will have to agree to disagree.

I see your point, and the actual process itself I would concede to you on. But the technology itself? No.

Let's say it this way then. Apple was innovative with the technology in regard to how they used it. But not in creating the technology itself.

Can we agree on that statement?

 

[convergent]

I think then we will have to agree to disagree.

I see your point, and the actual process itself I would concede to you on. But the technology itself? No.

Let's say it this way then. Apple was innovative with the technology in regard to how they used it. But not in creating the technology itself.

Can we agree on that statement?

Absolutely! Apple's innovation is in seeing how to put the whole thing together in a way that reaches the masses in a way that fits their overall design and ecosystem philosophy. That is a type of innovation.

I think OP's point is that there are various features that Android has that iOS doesn't. Apple's not in the feature race. They are content to have feature lag (sometimes for a very long time) but rather have the "sum is greater than the parts" ecosystem. Two different models... neither is "right" or the "best"... just different approaches to the market.

The iPhone was at least 5 years late to the dance. Pocket PC, Palm, Blackberry, and Symbian all had significant market presence and more features than what Apple brought with the iPhone... 5 years later. But they blew up the smartphone world when they landed... and Google just happened to be cooking up something of their own at the same time. I'm very thankful that neither of them was able to run the table unchecked. We as consumers benefit greatly from two titans battling. I hope Microsoft is able to get a foothold and build some momentum to make it a 3 horse race at some point, but they have a steep curve to get back to the top.

 

[HEK]

Absolutely! Apple's innovation is in seeing how to put the whole thing together in a way that reaches the masses in a way that fits their overall design and ecosystem philosophy. That is a type of innovation.

I think OP's point is that there are various features that Android has that iOS doesn't. Apple's not in the feature race. They are content to have feature lag (sometimes for a very long time) but rather have the "sum is greater than the parts" ecosystem. Two different models... neither is "right" or the "best"... just different approaches to the market.

The iPhone was at least 5 years late to the dance. Pocket PC, Palm, Blackberry, and Symbian all had significant market presence and more features than what Apple brought with the iPhone... 5 years later. But they blew up the smartphone world when they landed... and Google just happened to be cooking up something of their own at the same time. I'm very thankful that neither of them was able to run the table unchecked. We as consumers benefit greatly from two titans battling. I hope Microsoft is able to get a foothold and build some momentum to make it a 3 horse race at some point, but they have a steep curve to get back to the top.

I'm remind of a visit to the Henry Ford Museum years ago in grade school. They had a teaching tool to demonstrate what innovation is defined as. It consisted of separating colored balls that were mixed together. Combining tools and developing a process, clearly demonstrated the synergy that was not at first apparent from the individual steps.

Henry Ford was recognized as being an innovator. He brought together technology, inventions, and processes that, here to for, had not been combined and produced a modern automobile that the worker building it could personally buy. Buy combining these elements he ushered in the growth and emergence of a large middle class that fuels the world economy to this day.

Henry Ford didn't invent the automobile, it already existed for the wealthy. He did not invent the assembly line, as it was being used elsewhere, on chicken farms, if memory serves me right. And he didn't invent providing a living wage for the work his employees did. Yet by combining these elements he brought a synergy with results far greater than than the sum of the parts would suggest.

The Macintosh personal computer, the iPod music player, the iPhone, and the iPad along with their integrated software, the marketing, the customer sales and service support, the high amount of money and talent spent on R&D, have fostered numerous innovations. Products and ways of solving problems that few envisioned. Combining these elements with the vision to see possibilities is what has been innovative. Many companies and products are inventive, a few are innovative.

 

[HEK]

I was just thinking, maybe this thread has run it's course. Nothing new left to add. If it rains the rut around the barn will become a moat.

Edit: Never mind, I guess I'm not done myself. LOL

 

[HEK]

The copying of things isn't new in technology either. Both Gates and Jobs heisted the mouse, GUI, and network from Xerox. So basically the foundation of modern computing was copied. The difference is that Microsoft and Apple were able to do something with it in a way that made a difference. Just like I said that smartphones had been around for at least 5 years doing all that an iPhone did, but it wasn't until Apple stepped in that it moved to the masses. Prior to that, it was just a niche. They are trying to do that now with the Watch... not quite there yet, but they've gone further with it than anyone else. If history repeats, the second version of the watch will the breakout version.

Quite true and remember that the Xerox executives and board dismissed their own R&D research believing what the Park team had come up with would never sell. It took a visit by Steve Jobs to see the future and begin Macintosh. And Bill Gates to see DOS as dead end and copying the GUI from Macintosh and calling it Windows. Every innovation is built on the inventions and infrastructure of others. You don't innovate on a desert island by yourself.

 

[angel76ph]

I really think that Apple has success to what it is now because of a mixture of having fancy names & fancy words on their "own" hardware, copying features from other OS, incremental innovations that sounds and looks massive (because again of being given fancy names) but also because almost everything works (apart from early days of a major update wherein the OS is somewhat incompatible or made incompatible/obsolete on older devices) and companies are "obliged" to support as it is seen as a high-end, well-built phone which they see a good marketing/business model. Like the success of Windows OS of the past years.

The bottom line is everyone's a hypocrite with each one copying the other. Each has their own strengths & weaknesses. But one's device's weakness is overshadowed by fancy marketing stuff most of the times.

 

[eyoungren]

I really think that Apple has success to what it is now because of a mixture of having fancy names & fancy words on their "own" hardware, copying features from other OS, incremental innovations that sounds and looks massive (because again of being given fancy names) but also because almost everything works (apart from early days of a major update wherein the OS is somewhat incompatible or made incompatible/obsolete on older devices) and companies are "obliged" to support as it is seen as a high-end, well-built phone which they see a good marketing/business model. Like the success of Windows OS of the past years.

The bottom line is everyone's a hypocrite with each one copying the other. Each has their own strengths & weaknesses. But one's device's weakness is overshadowed by fancy marketing stuff most of the times.

Perhaps.

Sometimes they do jump on technology before it takes off.

For instance. At this moment I am typing this on a Mac Pro at work. But to the left of me are two PowerMac G4s, 1999-2000 vintage. Both of those Macs have Firewire and that alone, along with the G4 Quicksilver I have at home and my 17" PowerBook G4 has kept me relevant for 15 years.

Without FW on these Macs, without USB even, these Macs would be useless to me right now. But at that point in time, Apple's forward thinking to include this on the G4 has meant I've benefited for this long.

Sometimes, little things like that Apple does and it just opens things right up.

 

[convergent]

I really think that Apple has success to what it is now because of a mixture of having fancy names & fancy words on their "own" hardware, copying features from other OS, incremental innovations that sounds and looks massive (because again of being given fancy names) but also because almost everything works (apart from early days of a major update wherein the OS is somewhat incompatible or made incompatible/obsolete on older devices) and companies are "obliged" to support as it is seen as a high-end, well-built phone which they see a good marketing/business model. Like the success of Windows OS of the past years.

The bottom line is everyone's a hypocrite with each one copying the other. Each has their own strengths & weaknesses. But one's device's weakness is overshadowed by fancy marketing stuff most of the times.

I think there is a bit more to Apple's success than fancy words.

Given the court battles, Apple has been copied just as much as they have copied.

Not sure how you think at this point in smartphone development you are going to get more than "incremental" additions. When you have a huge install base, you aren't going to take some radical departure. How well did that work with Microsoft and Windows 8?

Their stuff isn't "seen" as high-end and well built, is "is" high end and well built. If Apple does anything, they make suburb hardware. Suburb being well designed and built, not bleeding edge. They almost always lag the bleeding edge which lets them maximize stability and profitability. The majority of folks don't want unstable bleeding edge products.

And why would a company not try to "overshadow" their "weaknesses" with "fancy marketing stuff". Name for me a company that produces marketing material that highlights their weaknesses. That would be pretty stupid. Any company or product has strengths and weaknesses, and the whole point of their marketing is to get people to buy, so they are going to minimize their weaknesses.

My interpretation of what you've tried to say here is that Apple is an unworthy company making inferior products and are just using a fancy spin team to convince ignorant sheep to buy their overpriced inferior copies of what other people invented? Does that size it up? Well if that were true, it would be the great coup of a lifetime. I have a different view. My opinion is that Apple has a very clear vision for their product designs and ecosystem, a standard for quality and support, and will produce their products in a way to maximize customer satisfaction and profits.

 

[angel76ph]

Apple does have a clear vision alright. But on where i am right now their success is giving their hardware fancy and catchy titles, being "ahead" of its competitors with expensive hardware, etc. Yes it has been proven countless times that with cheap labour they are selling (for example) a Macbook for £700 which in actuality has been put on almost half of its original price. It's sort of like a dress from a well-known high street shop such as Zara or Mango. A £70 dress is actually only £30 with materials made, labour, etc. Dunno if is see my point here. They try and inflate the prices thinking that people will think of them as "high' quality" or posh-looking.

I would maybe agree with you on my comment about incremental upgrade. Yes your user base might be a lot but you can never tell if they actually like the incremental upgrades or not. If you have a camera of 8MP for 3 years surely one would be bored by now and perhaps consider looking at the competition for better features, etc. Yes again there were incremental updates to the cameras through the years. I had a 4S, 5C, 5S & 6. It was incremental updates to the camera. And i had to keep coming back to Android because they offer a lot. Again for conversation sake who still does mono video recording in this year? Only Apple. Who doesn't have Manual controls on their camera? Only Apple.

Apple has good innovations and updates to their phones. I know coz i had iPhones in the past. But i will admit i did not have them long (perhaps 3 months is the longest and that's with the 6) again because of reasons i gave in previous replies.

I agree Of course no company would "hide" their weakness. That would be brave of them. But if compare your device to another then that creates an environment of healthy competition and gives the consumers a choice.

And yes Apple does offer support to their customers. What of the expensive 3-year Apple Care? And where is the chat service in their website? And i noticed Apple seem to really care about the environment with this & that free on devices. But not a single donation or support to charities? Could be wrong here.

 

[Megalobyte]

Apple does have a clear vision alright. But on where i am right now their success is giving their hardware fancy and catchy titles, being "ahead" of its competitors with expensive hardware, etc. Yes it has been proven countless times that with cheap labour they are selling (for example) a Macbook for £700 which in actuality has been put on almost half of its original price. It's sort of like a dress from a well-known high street shop such as Zara or Mango. A £70 dress is actually only £30 with materials made, labour, etc. Dunno if is see my point here. They try and inflate the prices thinking that people will think of them as "high' quality" or posh-looking.

I would maybe agree with you on my comment about incremental upgrade. Yes your user base might be a lot but you can never tell if they actually like the incremental upgrades or not. If you have a camera of 8MP for 3 years surely one would be bored by now and perhaps consider looking at the competition for better features, etc. Yes again there were incremental updates to the cameras through the years. I had a 4S, 5C, 5S & 6. It was incremental updates to the camera. And i had to keep coming back to Android because they offer a lot. Again for conversation sake who still does mono video recording in this year? Only Apple. Who doesn't have Manual controls on their camera? Only Apple.

Apple has good innovations and updates to their phones. I know coz i had iPhones in the past. But i will admit i did not have them long (perhaps 3 months is the longest and that's with the 6) again because of reasons i gave in previous replies.

I agree Of course no company would "hide" their weakness. That would be brave of them. But if compare your device to another then that creates an environment of healthy competition and gives the consumers a choice.

And yes Apple does offer support to their customers. What of the expensive 3-year Apple Care? And where is the chat service in their website? And i noticed Apple seem to really care about the environment with this & that free on devices. But not a single donation or support to charities? Could be wrong here.

 

[Megalobyte]

Pretty clear you have an anti Apple agenda. Which is fine long as we understand it's what you're doing.

 

[angel76ph]

Pretty clear you have an anti Apple agenda. Which is fine long as we understand it's what you're doing.

Far from it. Open your mind and see what i'm trying to say here. I'm merely stating in all honestly my personal views (which is based on my own experience of owning an Apple device and from reviews from well-known sites,etc.) and what i want/think of an iPhone.

And yes i haven't found my iPhone yet.

 

[HEK]

Far from it. Open your mind and see what i'm trying to say here. I'm merely stating in all honestly my personal views (which is based on my own experience of owning an Apple device and from reviews from well-known sites,etc.) and what i want/think of an iPhone.

And yes i haven't found my iPhone yet.

Ok your'e right, we're wrong, you phone is good, our phones are not, Apple is rotten to core, but other manufacturers are saints caring only about their customer's welfare. Giving you all that, please refer to my recent poll regarding, if what you and others like you say on this forum, has any effect on changing what people use as their phone. You might as well give up, because you won't convince anyone to change the phone they have.

All you are is dust in the wind.........dust in the wind....All you are is dust in the wind.

 

[angel76ph]

Ok your'e right, we're wrong, you phone is good, our phones are not, Apple is rotten to core, but other manufacturers are saints caring only about their customer's welfare. Giving you all that, please refer to my recent poll regarding, if what you and others like you say on this forum, has any effect on changing what people use as their phone. You might as well give up, because you won't convince anyone to change the phone they have.

All you are is dust in the wind.........dust in the wind....All you are is dust in the wind.

Such an arrogant & rude reply. I don't know why you see my thread in a bad light. You just don't get my point do you? My point of asking & challenging everyone (and Apple included). I'm not an Android "fanboy". I'm an Android user. And i'm not right. Android ain't a perfect mobile OS but it sure does meet (so far) my needs.

If you acknowledge your mistakes & misgivings and address those issues then people will respect you and buy your products. The same goes with "talking" & interacting with people.

 

[I7guy]

Far from it. Open your mind and see what i'm trying to say here. I'm merely stating in all honestly my personal views (which is based on my own experience of owning an Apple device and from reviews from well-known sites,etc.) and what i want/think of an iPhone.

And yes i haven't found my iPhone yet.

I've seen that on car forums, where posters posted talking points about cars lifted straight from car mags.

 

[angel76ph]

I've seen that on car forums, where posters posted talking points about cars lifted straight from car mags.

But maybe not just "another" car magazine. They would probably be from well-known/well-established/long-time car magazine who earn a living by reviewing cars.

Much like GSMArena or Android Authority who have been around for a long time reviewing phones et al.

 

[geta]

Far from it. Open your mind and see what i'm trying to say here. I'm merely stating in all honestly my personal views (which is based on my own experience of owning an Apple device and from reviews from well-known sites,etc.) and what i want/think of an iPhone.

And yes i haven't found my iPhone yet.

Ok, you dont hate iPhones\iOS, after all you had few models in the past for few weeks top... they dont have all the options and specs you need compare to other companies\Android phones. we get it, so get yourself your dream Android phone and move on.

 

[angel76ph]

Ok, you dont hate iPhones\iOS, after all you had few models in the past for few weeks top... they dont have all the options and specs you need compare to other companies\Android phones. we get it, so get yourself your dream Android phone and move on.

Still haven't made up my mind yet though.