Stolen Macbook Pro

[goMac]

I believe you may be mistaken. I don't know the law particularly, but I'm siding with the other (correct) group

No, I'm not. If my Macbook Pro was stolen, and I saw someone with it on the street, I could take it back. I don't have to be nicey nicey, I don't have to gently ask the thief for it, I don't have to provide a bunch of paperwork, I can just take it. Yoink. It's mine.

Now if it wasn't mine, then I'd be stealing it, so I'd better be damn sure it's mine. But if I knew for sure it was mine, then I'm not doing anything at all illegal.

Same reason banks can hire repossession agents to drive up to your house and haul away your boat without even telling you. Technically it's not your boat, it belongs to the bank.

Can I come to your house and take your tv later? It's mine.

If it's actually your tv, then yes you can, actually. Ever heard of a repo agent? Happens all the time.

(Banks also get sued all the time when they repo something that doesn't actually belong to them. But if it is something they own, then it is legal.)

 

[mac jones]

You are either trolling, really stupid or a preteen.

Following your way of thinking, if you think something is yours you can LEGALLY take it off someone without having the need of showing any kind of proof that the thing is actually yours.

Can I come to your house and take your tv later? It's mine.

Oh, don't call the police, I don't need to show any evidence. It's mine because I said so.

That's right. Judge Judy would make him look like a schmuck (Her words ).

All in the documentation. Gotta have that, or you have no leg.

Hammer drops........Ruling is for the plaintiff.....next loser?

 

[Criticalmass]

No, I'm not. If my Macbook Pro was stolen, and I saw someone with it on the street, I could take it back. I don't have to be nicey nicey, I don't have to gently ask the thief for it, I don't have to provide a bunch of paperwork, I can just take it. Yoink. It's mine.

Now if it wasn't mine, then I'd be stealing it, so I'd better be damn sure it's mine. But if I knew for sure it was mine, then I'm not doing anything at all illegal.

Same reason banks can hire repossession agents to drive up to your house and haul away your boat without even telling you. Technically it's not your boat, it belongs to the bank.



If it's actually your tv, then yes you can, actually. Ever heard of a repo agent? Happens all the time.

Repo agents carry proof, so that if law enforcement becomes involved, they aren't arrested and carted off to jail.

If you tried that on the street, you'd end up in jail if you just tried to pry it out of someone's hands. You don't seem to really know the law as well as you think you do.

 

[far4477]

That's right. Judge Judy would make him look like a schmuck (Her words ).

All in the documentation. Gotta have that, or you have no leg.

Hammer drops........Ruling is for the plaintiff.....next loser?

Repo agents carry proof, so that if law enforcement becomes involved, they aren't arrested and carted off to jail.

If you tried that on the street, you'd end up in jail if you just tried to pry it out of someone's hands. You don't seem to really know the law as well as you think you do.

Thanks for saving some of my time

 

[goMac]

Repo agents carry proof, so that if law enforcement becomes involved, they aren't arrested and carted off to jail.

Yes. But they don't have to give the person in possession of the item the proof to take the item. The person in possession doesn't even have to be present.

This is also why I suggested OP get the police involved.

If you tried that on the street, you'd end up in jail if you just tried to pry it out of someone's hands. You don't seem to really know the law as well as you think you do.

I've worked with these sort of cases before, with police. You can just grab it. You don't need to provide proof. Again, it's your laptop.

Did the thief sit you down and provide a bunch of paperwork when he stole the laptop? No? Then why on earth would you do that with him?

Again, with the disclaimer that if it isn't yours you will get the pants sued off you.

 

[mac jones]

Yes. But they don't have to give the person in possession of the item the proof to take the item. The person in possession doesn't even have to be present.

This is also why I suggested OP get the police involved.



I've worked with these sort of cases before, with police. You can just grab it. You don't need to provide proof. Again, it's your laptop.

Did the thief sit you down and provide a bunch of paperwork when he stole the laptop? No? Then why on earth would you do that with him?

Again, with the disclaimer that if it isn't yours you will get the pants sued off you.

I'm going to have to go to law school for this. I'll get back to this thread in 5 years for the answer.

 

[goMac]

I'm going to have to go to law school for this. I'll get back to this thread in 5 years for the answer.

I worked in a job where I was IT, and we had about 8,000 Macbooks, with them constantly getting stolen. We were working pretty close with the police.

If the computer is yours you can just take it. It's your computer. Why would you need to provide paperwork to take your computer? Boggles the mind.

 

[einmusiker]

No, you don't have to provide any proof. Why should you need to provide proof to take your own computer?

However, if it wasn't Apple's, then Apple is guilty of theft. Which is why the police should be involved.



They don't have to provide proof if it's their computer. Would it be nice? Yes. But they have no obligation to do so.



Ok... kind of not the same analogy. But if you did find your guitar, you could take it back without having to be all nicey nicey about it. You don't have to ask the thief's permission to take your guitar back. That would just be stupid.

You obviously dont understand the law. I hope you dont take your own legal advice for your own sake

 

[goMac]

You obviously dont understand the law. I hope you dont take your own legal advice for your own sake

Again, I've worked with police on these exact sort of situations.

It's your computer. Why do you need to provide proof to pick up your computer?

(That said, it's best to always call the police. I would have called them at the store.)

 

[mac jones]

Documentation you must have, and the Apple store does, of course.

The only question is: Can they just take it from you without showing you proof.

I think the answer to this may be yes (depending on the state). As long as they can prove it 'when required to' then they have the right.
(i'm on a roll here). Of course, you may also have a right not to let them have it because after all it's yours....right? But you must be a ble to show documentation, which you don't have so........ you is pooched.

 

[Brooklynmacman]

Update

So, this afternoon I was called by a detective from Chicago. He informed me that a rash of Apple store burglaries has been happening from Chicago, all the way to the eastern seaboard. Cleveland, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, had all been hit. The stolen machine I bought was stolen from the Apple store in his jurisdiction. He has been tracking the stolen computers, and they have been turning up all over the place. Apple has been forwarding much of the evidence and victims info to him. He also informed me that the FBI is was involved.

I also found out how the burglarys happen. Basically, the burglars smash through the glass/front entrance of the particular store, and grab all they can in just a minute or two. You can see a video of one such incident on youtube. Just search for Apple Store burglary. It's pretty crazy. Apparently Apple refuses to put security gates/bars on their stores....it's an aesthetic choice I think. Anyway, the burglars are organized, and pretty clever. They use pre paid phones and travel around selling these computers to unsuspecting people on craigslist. My description of the suspect matched up with feedback the detective was getting from some of the other victims. It's basically a organized gang of young men. I have more info, but don't think it wise to share any more details.

I also spoke with Apple customer relations today. They took all my information, and created a case. They said it might take a few days before they get back to me. The rep informed me that this incident needed escalated, and he had never dealt with such an incident. He forwarded the case to the theft/loss division. I'm pretty sure the theft/loss division is a bit understaffed/overwhelmed at the moment. I plan on calling back everyday and bugging them until the situation is resolved.

So anyway, this is where I'm at. I feel better after talking with the detective. He told me that there has been some talk of reimbursing the victims with Apple vouchers so they can get new computers. Obviously the final decision would be Apple's, but at least the idea has been brought up.

It's all actually pretty interesting.

Fingers crossed.

 

[RockPortTech]

Well at least it's part good news, Apple MAY reimburse you and for one hope they truly do. Your hard earned money and diligence should be rewarded at the end, hoping sooner than later. Thanks for the update and keep us posted if possible.

Cheers and honestly, good luck!!!!

 

[iApples]

So, this afternoon I was called by a detective from Chicago. He informed me that a rash of Apple store burglaries has been happening from Chicago, all the way to the eastern seaboard. Cleveland, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, had all been hit. The stolen machine I bought was stolen from the Apple store in his jurisdiction. He has been tracking the stolen computers, and they have been turning up all over the place. Apple has been forwarding much of the evidence and victims info to him. He also informed me that the FBI is was involved.

I also found out how the burglarys happen. Basically, the burglars smash through the glass/front entrance of the particular store, and grab all they can in just a minute or two. You can see a video of one such incident on youtube. Just search for Apple Store burglary. It's pretty crazy. Apparently Apple refuses to put security gates/bars on their stores....it's an aesthetic choice I think. Anyway, the burglars are organized, and pretty clever. They use pre paid phones and travel around selling these computers to unsuspecting people on craigslist. My description of the suspect matched up with feedback the detective was getting from some of the other victims. It's basically a organized gang of young men. I have more info, but don't think it wise to share any more details.

I also spoke with Apple customer relations today. They took all my information, and created a case. They said it might take a few days before they get back to me. The rep informed me that this incident needed escalated, and he had never dealt with such an incident. He forwarded the case to the theft/loss division. I'm pretty sure the theft/loss division is a bit understaffed/overwhelmed at the moment. I plan on calling back everyday and bugging them until the situation is resolved.

So anyway, this is where I'm at. I feel better after talking with the detective. He told me that there has been some talk of reimbursing the victims with Apple vouchers so they can get new computers. Obviously the final decision would be Apple's, but at least the idea has been brought up.

It's all actually pretty interesting.

Fingers crossed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhvDsqW7JCs

23 Macbook Pro's, 14 iPhone's and 9 iPod Touch devices stolen in 31 seconds. Ridiculous.

These guys sure are pros and this was obviously well planned out.

 

[macdatadrive]

I see. The fact is that people misread things. The person on the phone may have had no idea whatsoever OR simply it may not have been recorded as stolen yet. The other fact is true. Don't use craigslist.

 

[xdbuix]

This is why i buy cheap stuff off of Craigslist. $100 and below. Because with Craigslist theres no insurance that the selling you're buying is reputable. With thousands of dollars on the line, buy straight from Apple or some website with a good reputation. Safest and best way imo.

But I am really sorry taht happened to you though. I hope you get a new mbp

 

[Vook]

It would have taken every genius geek in the state to pry the comp from my clutches.

 

[Amerabian]

After reading some of these very insightful posts (not kidding actually ),

It indeed is interesting!

I've come to belief that this store manager acted rashly and not inline with Apple policies. As some one mentioned, they are not a police force.
....the manger could have made such a stupid mistake that could get both Apple and himself in serious legal trouble.

The store manager's mistake of confiscating the MBP really puts himself and Apple in a very embarrassing position. This stupid move, to my understanding, is what will -almost- guarantee that the OP will get a MacBook Pro back. Apple invests millions of dollars to please its customers and advertise for it's flawless customer service.

Did i try to trick the thief into meeting me so i could pistol whip him and take my guitar back? Yu bet. Hope you get the point

You, my friend, are the man!

It's your computer. Why do you need to provide proof to pick up your computer?

You need to show proof SO YOU DON'T BECOME A THIEF TOO!

WITHOUT PROOF OF OWNERSHIP, YOU.ARE.A.THIEF!

Working with the police doesn't mean you understand how the law works, what you already expressed shows clearly that you do not understand ANYTHING about the law.

 

[Macsavvytech]

It indeed is interesting!



The store manager's mistake of confiscating the MBP really puts himself and Apple in a very embarrassing position. This stupid move, to my understanding, is what will -almost- guarantee that the OP will get a MacBook Pro back. Apple invests millions of dollars to please its customers and advertise for it's flawless customer service.



You, my friend, are the man!



You need to show proof SO YOU DON'T BECOME A THIEF TOO!

WITHOUT PROOF OF OWNERSHIP, YOU.ARE.A.THIEF!

Working with the police doesn't mean you understand how the law works, what you already expressed shows clearly that you do not understand ANYTHING about the law.

Need to show proof the the police not the person you are taking the computer from, personally i would ask for it nicely first.

 

[Amerabian]

So anyway, this is where I'm at. I feel better after talking with the detective. He told me that there has been some talk of reimbursing the victims with Apple vouchers so they can get new computers. Obviously the final decision would be Apple's, but at least the idea has been brought up.

It's all actually pretty interesting.

Fingers crossed.

WoW!

After reading your post, the whole thing seems pretty big!

Just so GoMac sees this again..

DON'T WORRY, You will get a MacBook Pro at the very least!. (READ AGAIN)!

 

[Amerabian]

Need to show proof the the police not the person you are taking the computer from, personally i would ask for it nicely first.

The store manager HAS TO SHOW PROOF TO THE OP!

Have you ever worked with a reputable company or even a nice restaurant??

HE IS NOT YOU, HE IS AN APPLE EMPLOYEE, WORKING FOR APPLE, UNDER APPLE'S UMBRELLA..

THUS, he has to follow guidelines AND BE NICE AND COURTEOUS AND SHOW PROOF.

I'm just so surprised at some people here who think this world is a competition over who's more of a badass than the other!

 

[Macsavvytech]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8H7 Safari/6533.18.5)

Need to show proof the the police not the person you are taking the computer from, personally i would ask for it nicely first.

The store manager HAS TO SHOW PROOF TO THE OP!

Have you ever worked with a reputable company or even a nice restaurant??

HE IS NOT YOU, HE IS AN APPLE EMPLOYEE, WORKING FOR APPLE, UNDER APPLE'S UMBRELLA..

THUS, he has to follow guidelines AND BE NICE AND COURTEOUS AND SHOW PROOF.

I'm just so surprised at some people here who think this world is a competition over who's more of a badass than the other!

If the store manager knows he owns the laptop he doesn't need to give the OP any proof (only the police), if the OP disagrees he can go call the police. Considering the police are already involved ...
Also I don't consider myself to be "badass", you are simply degrading our level of conversation.

 

[Macsavvytech]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8H7 Safari/6533.18.5)

Need to show proof the the police not the person you are taking the computer from, personally i would ask for it nicely first.

The store manager HAS TO SHOW PROOF TO THE OP!

Have you ever worked with a reputable company or even a nice restaurant??

HE IS NOT YOU, HE IS AN APPLE EMPLOYEE, WORKING FOR APPLE, UNDER APPLE'S UMBRELLA..

THUS, he has to follow guidelines AND BE NICE AND COURTEOUS AND SHOW PROOF.

I'm just so surprised at some people here who think this world is a competition over who's more of a badass than the other!

Oh and we are talking on legal terms not practical terms

 

[Al Coholic]

If the store manager knows he owns the laptop he doesn't need to give the OP any proof

Ok. I own your house. Give it to me. Don't ask me why I own it... I just do. You prove otherwise. Disagree? Fine. We'll wait for the authorities/courts to decide. In the meantime, move out.

Same thing as the OP.

1.) Op buys merchandise.
2.) OP shows merchandise to somebody else, he says it's his. Keeps it.
3.) Op says OK. Walks away.

LOL!

Whoever has the item at the time of the dispute keeps it until the proper authorities decide where it goes.

End of story.

 

[Amerabian]

Same thing as the OP.

1.) Op buys merchandise.
2.) OP shows merchandise to somebody else, he says it's his. Keeps it.
3.) Op says OK. Walks away.

I've had too much krap from people in real life, now I'm different. So I don't think I would let a store manager take a a laptop whether it was stolen or not. (Over my dead body, call the cops, I'm here, I'll browse your merchandise).

The OP seems like a well mannered nice guy who -almost- fell for two thieves, the seller, and the store manager.

Good thing it's not just him, this means someone higher up in the Apple's regional offices is following up on this already with the buyers, police, FBI, etc..

Someone's getting a NEW MacBook Pro for the price of a used one

 

[goMac]

Ok. I own your house. Give it to me. Don't ask me why I own it... I just do. You prove otherwise. Disagree? Fine. We'll wait for the authorities/courts to decide. In the meantime, move out.

You stole my house? Ok. I'll live outside while we wait for the courts to work it out. Makes total sense. Just be sure not to make too much of a mess. I don't happen to carry my deed for the house on me, so I can't prove it's mine. I certainly won't go and kick you out of my house until a judge tells me it's ok. I'll just live outside in a cardboard box until then. I could go inside the house and get the deed, but sadly I can't go in my house because I can't prove that I own it instead of you.

What? Do you expect Apple to just give the laptop to the guy who possibly could be the thief? (and I'm not saying OP is a thief, but from Apple's perspective, he could be.)

"Oh. You possibly stole this laptop? Here. You hold on to it. Pinky swear you'll come back in if it's the stolen laptop."

Same thing as the OP.

1.) Op buys merchandise.
2.) OP shows merchandise to somebody else, he says it's his. Keeps it.
3.) Op says OK. Walks away.

LOL!

Well, step 3 should be OP calls the police if he believes it really is his. Saying "ok" and walking away is where the OP made a mistake.

OP didn't dispute it was stolen. Apple took it and said it was stolen. OP says "OK". From a legal perspective, Apple doesn't need to prove anything because OP didn't actually dispute anything. He agreed that it belonged to Apple.

If he said "no, you can't have it" then it probably would be in police custody right now.

Whoever has the item at the time of the dispute keeps it until the proper authorities decide where it goes

End of story.

Did you even think about this?

"Yes, potential thief. Keep the laptop! Promise you won't skip town! Because if you're possibly the thief you're obviously totally trustworthy! And if it is stolen, you're totally going to bring it back, right?"

Dumb dumb dumb dumb. How could you think that's ever what is supposed to happen?

Keep in mind, from Apple's perspective, OP could possibly be the thief. Why on earth would you put the laptop back in the hands of someone who could have been the person who stole it?

Anyway, I hope the OP gets a new Macbook Pro. It certainly doesn't seem like he was involved with any thievery at all, and he seems like a generally nice guy.