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Lol, you guys are a kind of absurd to the point it's hard to take you seriously.

I use MacOS myself for most of my computing and I have to say I don't understand what exactly is better about MacOS compared to Windows 10. They're different OSes, but nothing stands out as better to me.


I own both and completely agree with the exception being that I prefer windows 10 for my daily driver. I got the fall update yesterday and love it, rock solid.
[doublepost=1508383698][/doublepost]

IBM can say what they want but the windows laptop I got at under 1000.00 (aluminum) would cost 2500.00 in the closest mac version and still have less ssd and memory. So on an individual scale its bs. When my mac gets too old I won't be replacing it with another, far too much for an os that's no longer better. Still like my mac, but its too much for what you get.

Fanless design.
  • Full-size island-style backlit keyboard
  • 12 GB DDR4-2133 SDRAM (1 x 4 GB, 1 x 8 GB)
  • Intel® 802.11ac (2x2) Wi-Fi® and Bluetooth® 4.2 Combo
  • 15.6" diagonal 4K UHD IPS UWVA WLED-backlit (3840 x 2160) Touchscreen (for HD Camera)
  • Windows 10 Pro 64
  • Wide Vision HD Webcam with Dual Digital Microphone (For Touch)
  • 3-cell 52 WHr Lithium-ion Battery
  • Intel® Core™ i7-7560U (2.4 GHz, up to 3.8 GHz, 4 MB cache, 2 cores) + Intel® Iris™ Plus Graphics 640
  • 1 TB PCIe® NVMe™ M.2 SSD
Live in Mexico and don't have 1st world problems like money to burn. Not trying to hurt anyone's feelings but gone are the days when stability of an os played a part or when the only windows laptops were cheap junk.
 
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Hello folks,
I am the user of tge latest pre-dongle MBP that is maxed out. I was very surprised to see the latest generation of MBP. Taking ports out...Ok, I can live with it. Adding emoji bar? This is something pofessional creatives really needed:)
Now that tgere is the Surface Book 2, which is the most innovative and created for professionals of these 2?
 
Imagine Apple released the same computer with exactly the same specs. I’d buy it in a heartbeat without any hesitation.
The specs are just so ridiculously superior compared to Apple’s best offerings. Yes, even including the 15W CPU.

Sad time to be tied so strongly to Apple ecosystem...
 
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A more advanced emoji bar?

I wouldn't get the Surface Book as I love macOS and MBP's designs much more but the SB2 has some good specs in the top end.

Looking forward to Apple's answer in 2018 I guess.

 
I own both and completely agree with the exception being that I prefer windows 10 for my daily driver. I got the fall update yesterday and love it, rock solid.
[doublepost=1508383698][/doublepost]

IBM can say what they want but the windows laptop I got at under 1000.00 (aluminum) would cost 2500.00 in the closest mac version and still have less ssd and memory. So on an individual scale its bs. When my mac gets too old I won't be replacing it with another, far too much for an os that's no longer better. Still like my mac, but its too much for what you get.

Fanless design.
  • Full-size island-style backlit keyboard
  • 12 GB DDR4-2133 SDRAM (1 x 4 GB, 1 x 8 GB)
  • Intel® 802.11ac (2x2) Wi-Fi® and Bluetooth® 4.2 Combo
  • 15.6" diagonal 4K UHD IPS UWVA WLED-backlit (3840 x 2160) Touchscreen (for HD Camera)
  • Windows 10 Pro 64
  • Wide Vision HD Webcam with Dual Digital Microphone (For Touch)
  • 3-cell 52 WHr Lithium-ion Battery
  • Intel® Core™ i7-7560U (2.4 GHz, up to 3.8 GHz, 4 MB cache, 2 cores) + Intel® Iris™ Plus Graphics 640
  • 1 TB PCIe® NVMe™ M.2 SSD
Live in Mexico and don't have 1st world problems like money to burn. Not trying to hurt anyone's feelings but gone are the days when stability of an os played a part or when the only windows laptops were cheap junk.


On a personal scale its only BS if you value your own time at $0/hr.

I value my personal time off work at 2-3x my hourly rate (reasoning: i have a lot less free time than i do work time, and its for what I WANT TO DO - especially when it comes to IT related things, because that’s my day job), so for me, if a PC costs me more than a couple of hours of screwing around compared to my mac, the effective cost difference is eliminated pretty quickly. A few times losing my work when it reboots without saving things if i leave it running overnight due to windows update = mac has paid for itself. Or even if windows demands a reboot when i am busy using it.

1. the mac doesn’t auto reboot without asking
2. when the mac does reboot, anything open is saved.

I get a lot more hassles for reboots and other disruptive events on Windows than I do on my Macs. I didn’t even mention the Windows habit of applications “focus stealing” (pop up a dialog in the middle of the screen, disrupting your active task) instead of just notifying you in the background via dock bounce or similar when they need attention.

That annoys the hell out of me.
 
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This tells the whole story. It is no longer about a better product. It is emotional following. Subsxription program.

Imagine Apple released the same computer with exactly the same specs. I’d buy it in a heartbeat without any hesitation.
The specs are just so ridiculously superior compared to Apple’s best offerings. Yes, even including the 15W CPU.

Sad time to be tied so strongly to Apple ecosystem...
 
With the Surface Book 2, you are getting the following:

An advanced MacBook Pro with 8th gen Intel processors and nVidia 1060 graphics with 6 GBs of video RAM
A 15 inch iPad
A keyboard thats nice to use
USB A, USB C (TB3), SD Card Reader
Cool Biometrics like the new iPhone X which unlocks your device

The fact that its not running macOS is neglible. The apps are what matter and last I checked: Adobe Creative Suite, Microsoft Office (the real stuff), AutoDesk, real QuickBooks and Quicken.

Of course, there are the little things in macOS I like - like previewing files, batch editing, expose. Macs seems to have some magical power at power management. I left a VMWare session open with Windows 10 for a day and I was shocked when I logged in, it was logged in and only 15% battery used. Windows 10 is still perfect, but hopefully power throttling can fix that.

Windows 10 is really good too, you get tools to really experience the hot technologies now like mixed reality. I have been using Windows 10 since its launch I've had little problem with it except for its a bandwidth hog - but macOS is just as worse and you don't have anything built in to mitigate. At least Windows 10 has a metered connection option, you can pause updates and disable background apps. macOS, I had to pay $7 for Trip Mode.

Windows 10 has matured well, five releases have done wonders and I can only see it getting better. I provide support for it and I notice there are less complains than previous versions. SO, it likely means they are doing something right.

I love features like Task View, Snaps, being able to say Hey, Cortana - which song is playing, shutdown computer, whats the weather in xyz.

Apple has great hardware design as far my early 2015 MBP '13 goes, but it looks likes starting take a nose dive with the 2016 and '17 MBPs. I am considering taking a detour back to Windows 10 with these new SBs. I just wish they would have pushed for DDR4 to make it perfect. Those LPDDR4's are starting to sound like unicorns.

Let me introduce you the idea of trade-off.

- The GPU is better on the Surface Book but the CPU is not. If one uses the laptop for CPU intensive tasks, then the SB2 is a no-go.
- A 15 inch iPad that is thicker, heavier, with poor battery life, and no truly app ecosystem that takes advantage of the tablet form factor. A tablet is supposed to be light, small, great battery life, with touch-friendly apps. Calling this a tablet replacement for someone who really needs a tablet is atrocious.
- Keyboard is a matter of preference. Some people like more key travel. Others do not mind less key travel for a more clicky fell and less mushy keys.
- 4 UBC C (TB3) have a theoretical bandwidth of 200 Gb/s. What the MacBook Pro lacks in convenience at this point in time, makes up for true expandability (EGPUs, driving 5k displays, and so on)
- You have Touch ID which seems faster and more reliable than what the SB2 has. And please, do not compare iPhone X biometrics with SB's. They are really two different beasts.

I'm not saying the Surface Book 2 is a bad computer. I'm just saying that you should consider what you're not getting to get what you get on the computer.

In regards to the operative system, it really is a matter of preference. Apps are available in both operative systems, sure. But there are advantages to macOS that, no matter what you do, you'll not find in Windows 10. Ecosystem plays a huge role in that.
Good luck in your journey to Windows 10, though. Make sure you don't buy a computer with a super high DPI otherwise you'll have a bad time when you find out that behind fresh cover of paint, the OS still uses graphical resources that date back to the Windows 98 days.
 
Imagine Apple released the same computer with exactly the same specs. I’d buy it in a heartbeat without any hesitation.
The specs are just so ridiculously superior compared to Apple’s best offerings. Yes, even including the 15W CPU.

Would you? Personally, I'd very disappointed about Apple abandoning the professional user. 30-50% slower CPU on sustained performance-demanding workflows in order to fit in a gaming GPU? Sure, your application might be niche enough to benefit from it. No pro-level connectivity? A gimmick where you can turn your screen into an oversized tablet with barely any battery life?
[doublepost=1508405094][/doublepost]
This tells the whole story. It is no longer about a better product. It is emotional following. Subsxription program.

What this tells is people falling for marketing BS, which Microsoft is great at. Remember when they released a ridiculously priced AOI computer with a laptop CPU and no pro-level connectivity whatsoever, which was immediately praised as the "iMac killer for pro market"?
 
I'm impressed with Microsoft. Although I hear that the original Surface Book was plagued with hardware issues (My brother in law has one), I like the fact that MS is pushing the envelope. I think Apple needs to bring their notebook design teams back to reality.

What does this even mean?

Bring the MacBook team back to reality? MacBook design is probably the best in the world.

MS is pushing the envelope? By copying the same design as the previous model?

Come on man, you can do better than some random statements.
[doublepost=1508411660][/doublepost]
Lol, you guys are a kind of absurd to the point it's hard to take you seriously.

I use MacOS myself for most of my computing and I have to say I don't understand what exactly is better about MacOS compared to Windows 10. They're different OSes, but nothing stands out as better to me.

Haha.. Good point.

I'll switch back to Windows when they can get the split between Control Panel and Settings sorted.

Good on Microsoft for coming up with an OS that can work on desktops and tablets. But brah, I need my gestures.
 
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30-50% slower CPU on sustained performance-demanding workflows in order to fit in a gaming GPU? Sure, your application might be niche enough to benefit from it.

Oh yeah, because nVidia GPUs are only for gamers? Have you ever heard of CUDA optimized software? Niche like Adobe CC

And BTW, High end nVidia GPUs are better then the AMD ones also in OpenCL.
 
Oh yeah, because nVidia GPUs are only for gamers? Have you ever heard of CUDA optimized software? Niche like Adobe CC

What I mean is that while many software packages are utilizing GPU acceleration nowadays, only few of them scale well with GPU performance. For most of your Photoshop etc. use, a difference in 100% faster GPU will translate to almost no real world win. There are enough tests and benchmarks out there that show this. There are undoubtedly some applications that can utilise the GPU better, e.g. GPU-assisted learning mentioned by jerryk, maybe some particular workflows in video editing. But I don't believe that the group of users that benefit from this kind of setup is particularly large (gamers notwithstanding). Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about having a faster GPU, quite in contrary. But you need to be aware of the trade offs. And it appears odd to me to make a laptop with a beefy GPU at the cost of the CPU thermal headroom. I'm curious to see how SB2 actually operates in real world. How will that CPU behave in a presence of a hot GPU like the 1060 GTX?
 
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Let me introduce you the idea of trade-off.

- The GPU is better on the Surface Book but the CPU is not. If one uses the laptop for CPU intensive tasks, then the SB2 is a no-go.
- A 15 inch iPad that is thicker, heavier, with poor battery life, and no truly app ecosystem that takes advantage of the tablet form factor. A tablet is supposed to be light, small, great battery life, with touch-friendly apps. Calling this a tablet replacement for someone who really needs a tablet is atrocious.
- Keyboard is a matter of preference. Some people like more key travel. Others do not mind less key travel for a more clicky fell and less mushy keys.
- 4 UBC C (TB3) have a theoretical bandwidth of 200 Gb/s. What the MacBook Pro lacks in convenience at this point in time, makes up for true expandability (EGPUs, driving 5k displays, and so on)
- You have Touch ID which seems faster and more reliable than what the SB2 has. And please, do not compare iPhone X biometrics with SB's. They are really two different beasts.

I'm not saying the Surface Book 2 is a bad computer. I'm just saying that you should consider what you're not getting to get what you get on the computer.

In regards to the operative system, it really is a matter of preference. Apps are available in both operative systems, sure. But there are advantages to macOS that, no matter what you do, you'll not find in Windows 10. Ecosystem plays a huge role in that.
Good luck in your journey to Windows 10, though. Make sure you don't buy a computer with a super high DPI otherwise you'll have a bad time when you find out that behind fresh cover of paint, the OS still uses graphical resources that date back to the Windows 98 days.

I use Windows 10 Pro everyday, I have a Surface Pro 3 - uh, no problems here. This is in addition to my Acer Aspire, HP Elitebook 8460p, HP Z210 Workstation.
 
What I mean is that while many software packages are utilizing GPU acceleration nowadays, only few of them scale well with GPU performance. For most of your Photoshop etc. use, a difference in 100% faster GPU will translate to almost no real world win. There are enough tests and benchmarks out there that show this.

On the contrary...

http://barefeats.com/rmbpnode13in.html

an High-end nVidia GPU of the previous generation, even with the limited bandwith of TB3, has a fairly big impact on the overall performances. Pascal with the appropriate drivers would be even better.
A MBP with a Pascal Max-Q card would fly on CUDA optimized software...

If Apple did not cripple his own software, also FCP would fly with an nVidia GPU....
 
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I use Windows 10 Pro everyday, I have a Surface Pro 3 - uh, no problems here. This is in addition to my Acer Aspire, HP Elitebook 8460p, HP Z210 Workstation.

I’m not saying you should have any problems. Just wanted you to be aware that every device is a compromise
 
On the contrary...

http://barefeats.com/rmbpnode13in.html

an High-end nVidia GPU of the previous generation, even with the limited bandwith of TB3, has a fairly big impact on the overall performances. Pascal with the appropriate drivers would be even better.
A MBP with a Pascal Max-Q card would fly on CUDA optimized software...

Sure, those are examples where GPU acceleration scales well. Certainly not arguing with that. On the other hand you have this: https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Photoshop-CC-2017-NVIDIA-GeForce-GPU-Performance-899/

There are of course many more variables in the equation. Do all effects show this kind of performance difference or just the one's barefeats posted? How often are these effects actually used in common workflows? Is the OpenCL backend of the software properly optimised (there is nothing about CUDA that makes it more performant inherently)? Also, how would a 15W CPU influence the tests? This is why I am looking forward to seeing these kind of tests on the SB2 once it becomes available.
 
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Exactly. Kaby Lake R is optimised for burst, 45W quad cores are optimised for both burst and sustained performance. If all you need is burst (Office, everyday computing, Internet etc.), Kaby Lake R is incredible. Once you need sustain, its a significant downgrade from a 45W CPU. Of course, most reviews focus on burst performance (e.g. Geekbench). In other words, the Kaby Lake R is an ideal 'casual' CPU. And there is nothing wrong with that. I found it very strange though that so many people would consider it an upgrade over even a 7700HQ. Is it just because there is "Gen 8" written on the spec sheet?.

As long as the cooling solution is robust the new 8th Gen U series quad cores will be a significant improvement on the previous U series CPU. For many users being more than powerful enough, who will never notice the difference versus the 7700HQ. I don't perceive that there will be a massive delta in performance even with heavy sustained computational tasks. The 7700HQ will definitely pull ahead, equally outside of benchmarks or time critical applications not a deal breaker for the majority.

I agree there is a level of confusion, and the 7700HQ and upwards remain the choice for heavy lifting until the 8th Gen revisions are released. Personally thinking the U series are far better suited to thin & light notebooks allowing for less substantial cooling systems, while the H series is better suited to the more traditional larger notebooks that offer larger more robust cooling systems.

In short the 8th Gen U series is a significant upgrade, equally not in comparison to the top tier 7700HQ which is a different class of mobile CPU. Getting back to Surface Book 2 Microsoft have the advantage and additional complexity of two thermal zones, I'm pretty confident that SB-2 will be capable of adequate cooling and prevent thermal throttling...

Q-6
[doublepost=1508430768][/doublepost]
Would you? Personally, I'd very disappointed about Apple abandoning the professional user. 30-50% slower CPU on sustained performance-demanding workflows in order to fit in a gaming GPU? Sure, your application might be niche enough to benefit from it. No pro-level connectivity? A gimmick where you can turn your screen into an oversized tablet with barely any battery life?
[doublepost=1508405094][/doublepost]

What this tells is people falling for marketing BS, which Microsoft is great at. Remember when they released a ridiculously priced AOI computer with a laptop CPU and no pro-level connectivity whatsoever, which was immediately praised as the "iMac killer for pro market"?

Well for many Apple that's exactly has done, and we are very disappointed. Nor are the U series quad cores going to be so ""dramatically" slower as you purport. They will in fact be perfectly fine for the vast majority of users and run cooler. dGPU come on if Apple did this you would be all over it, more and more SW is levering GPU computation, so all power to MS for pulling it off. There's no hardship here at all, maybe just sour grapes, and why shouldn't even professional's enjoy a better gaming experience, let alone AR..

Connectivity is perfectly fine, as a professional who works globally with major multinationals I've yet to see one facility set up and wired for TB-3. As for the gimmicks Apple's got some of that going on with thin for the sake of thinner, flaky keyboards and the Touch Bar.

Marketing BS, Apple is the king, anyone not overly invested knows this, like many others thing's sometimes it just don't always work. I own and use both multiple Mac portables and a Surface Book, I can categorically state that the Surface Book is an excellent notebook, although I'm confident that your going to spend as much energy as possible to put it down :p

MS is not perfect by any means, however at least they are trying to break the mould, while Apple has become locked into a single paradigm and spot of competition is exactly what Apple needs...

Q-6
 
What I mean is that while many software packages are utilizing GPU acceleration nowadays, only few of them scale well with GPU performance. For most of your Photoshop etc. use, a difference in 100% faster GPU will translate to almost no real world win. There are enough tests and benchmarks out there that show this. There are undoubtedly some applications that can utilise the GPU better, e.g. GPU-assisted learning mentioned by jerryk, maybe some particular workflows in video editing. But I don't believe that the group of users that benefit from this kind of setup is particularly large (gamers notwithstanding). Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about having a faster GPU, quite in contrary. But you need to be aware of the trade offs. And it appears odd to me to make a laptop with a beefy GPU at the cost of the CPU thermal headroom. I'm curious to see how SB2 actually operates in real world. How will that CPU behave in a presence of a hot GPU like the 1060 GTX?

I don't think the heat will be an issue, as the Surface Book has two separate thermal zones. What interests me is how MS is going to power the 15" SB-2, as it's going to need a fair size power supply, even with the U series CPU...

To me it's obvious why MS opted for the U series CPU's given it's a 2 in 1, even if MS could cool a 45W quad core adequately, it would likely be uncomfortable to handle as a tablet. MBP's are the same hence why Apple doesn't use the term laptop nor recommends such usage, as they become uncomfortably hot under heavy loads...

Q-6
 
15watt U series CPUs are terrible. They're quick enough, but when you use them in low to medium intensity processing tasks (e.g. restoring say about 10 Chrome tabs) you'll hear fans kicking in and suddenly your 8 hours of battery life on Windows shrinks to 3 and a half... Experience coming from a Lenovo ThinkPad .. i5 7200U, it was fast enough but couldn't last more than a few hours if you actually used it.

Seems I'm not the only one whose realised this as I've read it a few times now..
 
No Thunderbolt 3 support is a dealbreaker. I like being able to connect my 15" tMBP to my 1080 Ti and my ultrawide using a single cable.

I also value the integration of the tMBP into the rest of Apple's ecosystem, ie. Apple Watch, iPhone, iPad, etc.
 
dGPU come on if Apple did this you would be all over it, more and more SW is levering GPU computation, so all power to MS for pulling it off. There's no hardship here at all, maybe just sour grapes, and why shouldn't even professional's enjoy a better gaming experience, let alone AR..

If Apple managed to fit a 1060 GTX equivalent without having to downgrade the CPU, sure, I'd be all over it instantly. I don't want to sacrifice the CPU performance for that. For me at least, it would be a very noticeable downgrade.

I'm pretty confident that SB-2 will be capable of adequate cooling and prevent thermal throttling...

I don't think that throttling is the primary thing to worry about. If I understood it correctly, the burst potential of these new CPUs comes from their ability to briefly go beyond their TDP. How would the system behave though if there is another power-hungry component? The dynamic nature of these CPUs makes them very flexible but also exceedingly difficult to test...

What interests me is how MS is going to power the 15" SB-2, as it's going to need a fair size power supply, even with the U series CPU...

Its combined TDP is basically identical to the 15" MBP, so I don't see a bit mystery here. Reducing the TDP by 30W in one spot gives you 30W to use somewhere else. And 1060 GTX's optimised (Max-Q) TDP is as it happens more or less 30W above the Polaris chips Apple uses...


Well for many Apple that's exactly has done, and we are very disappointed.

Well, we've been over this many times now, but I still can't understand where this perception of Apple abandoning the pro's comes from... What they did is release laptop with same kind CPU and GPU performance as any laptop they've ever made before, while making it slightly thinner. For some reason, it seems that this "thinner" thing really bugs some people off, in a fairly irrational manner, especially given the fact that Apple didn't compromise a bit on the innards (like you know, dropping the TDP of the CPU ;) ).

And in regards to connectivity... sure, USB-C requires some readjustment and investment, but don't look at it as "just another connector". Look at it as 16 PCI-E 3.0 lanes exposed by your machine. Which is an incredibly powerful thing. What good is having that 1060 GTX for video editing, if you can't communicate fast enough with your external SSD RAID setup? The thing is, with TB3, you can have all of it. You can have an fast external GPU, a fast external SSD array, and you can still connect a bunch of 4K monitors to your system. This is the kind of flexibility which makes the MBP an excellent professional tool.
 
As someone who owns and uses a 1st Gen Surface Book I will definitely follow the new release with interest, likely purchasing a 15" 512 early to mid 2018. I'll let Microsoft and it's partners sort out the initial bugs in the interim.

My own Surface Book has proved to be a fabulous productivity tool, something I once envisioned only Apple would have been capable of producing. It replaced a long line of MBP's, equally the Surface Book has not disappointed, now with the release of the more powerful 15" the 15" MBP is simply no longer a consideration. If you can take advantage of the Surface Book's features it really is a great product, and it really delivers...

Q-6

15" Surface Book is definitely going to replace my rMBP eventually. If I'm going to pay $2500, I should at least get a decent GPU, a nice touchscreen, and some versatility. The mediocre GPU and Touchbar really isn't doing it for me at the MBP's price tag.
 
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15" Surface Book is definitely going to replace my rMBP eventually. If I'm going to pay $2500, I should at least get a decent GPU, a nice touchscreen, and some versatility. The mediocre GPU and Touchbar really isn't doing it for me at the MBP's price tag.

You're going to be really p*ssed at Windows for $2500... sure, you gain greater paper specs... say goodbye to macOS .. say goodbye to rock solid reliability...

But you can always make a new account after you sell the SB and come back on here free from any shame for trying ;-)
 
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On a personal scale its only BS if you value your own time at $0/hr.

I value my personal time off work at 2-3x my hourly rate (reasoning: i have a lot less free time than i do work time, and its for what I WANT TO DO - especially when it comes to IT related things, because that’s my day job), so for me, if a PC costs me more than a couple of hours of screwing around compared to my mac, the effective cost difference is eliminated pretty quickly. A few times losing my work when it reboots without saving things if i leave it running overnight due to windows update = mac has paid for itself. Or even if windows demands a reboot when i am busy using it.

1. the mac doesn’t auto reboot without asking
2. when the mac does reboot, anything open is saved.

I get a lot more hassles for reboots and other disruptive events on Windows than I do on my Macs. I didn’t even mention the Windows habit of applications “focus stealing” (pop up a dialog in the middle of the screen, disrupting your active task) instead of just notifying you in the background via dock bounce or similar when they need attention.

That annoys the hell out of me.

It's BS because I have as much as time in on my mac as my windows box so that's a moot point. Seriously, I really do not care if you like it or not or if you have to justify by whining about something that does not need to happen. If you actually know how to use a computer you can set it to install and reboot when you want it too. I have mine set to install and reboot at 2am, much easier than whining and sniveling about it. Again it helps to be smart enough to do that

Before I got this laptop I dual booted windows and osx. Had to put osx on ssd before it would run worth a crap and windows 10 on a spinner still was quicker.
 
You're going to be really p*ssed at Windows for $2500... sure, you gain greater paper specs... say goodbye to macOS .. say goodbye to rock solid reliability...

But you can always make a new account after you sell the SB and come back on here free from any shame for trying ;-)

There are 4 Macs in my household, and I had a Surface Pro 4 before I gave it to my father since he's always wanted one.(Plus, this being last two quarters of engineering college, I don't need a compact CAD machine like I used to) and I had no reliability issues with my SP4, and not once did it BSOD. I did buy after a year, when all the kinks were worked out though. So it's not like I've never used a Surface Product before.

I know all the Apple fans are up in-arms, but I simply don't find the new tbMBP worth it. It's not like I hate macOS.
 
What does this even mean?

Bring the MacBook team back to reality? MacBook design is probably the best in the world.

MS is pushing the envelope? By copying the same design as the previous model?

Come on man, you can do better than some random statements.
[doublepost=1508411660][/doublepost]

I would agree that the MacBook build quality is the definitely some of the best in the world but I wouldn't agree that their design philosophy is the best in the world. Apple's design choices have been increasingly questionable recently. Touchbar/Keyboard/Ports all have been controversial and have caused people to question whether they are putting the customer first. MS is pushing the envelope the Surface Book is an incredibly versatile product simply from a hardware perspective. Too bad it has to run Windows. I welcome the competition. It can only lead to better products from Apple.
 
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