Surface Book 2 vs MBP

[BeforeTheMeds]

You're going to be really p*ssed at Windows for $2500... sure, you gain greater paper specs... say goodbye to macOS .. say goodbye to rock solid reliability...

But you can always make a new account after you sell the SB and come back on here free from any shame for trying ;-)

I beat that 2500 laptop for under 1000, dual booted windows the whole time I owned mac's so know how stable it is, so all you are trying to do is make yourself feel good. Still own a mac.
[doublepost=1508438959][/doublepost]

There are about 4 Macs in my household, and I had a Surface Pro 4 before I gave it to my father since he's always wanted one.(Plus, this being last two quarters of engineering college, I don't need a compact CAD machine like I used to) and I had no reliability issues with my SP4, and not once did it BSOD. I did buy after a year, when all the kinks were worked out though. So it's not like I've never used a Surface Product before.

I know all the Apple fans are up in-arms, but I simply don't find the new tbMBP worth it. It's not like I hate macOS.

Don't try telling the fanboys that feel they need to justify their purchase. 10 is rock solid. Buy whatever you like and I like both but osx is stale and slow compared to 10 in my opinion. Not worth paying 3 times as much for what I want, if someone wants to then good for you. Choice, its great. Getting mad because apple is slipping and ms getting better does nothing though.

 

[0989383]

There are 4 Macs in my household, and I had a Surface Pro 4 before I gave it to my father since he's always wanted one.(Plus, this being last two quarters of engineering college, I don't need a compact CAD machine like I used to) and I had no reliability issues with my SP4, and not once did it BSOD. I did buy after a year, when all the kinks were worked out though. So it's not like I've never used a Surface Product before.

I know all the Apple fans are up in-arms, but I simply don't find the new tbMBP worth it. It's not like I hate macOS.

Fair enough if that's your personal preference. But if you liked the SP4 so much, why give it away? I think the grass always looks greener..
[doublepost=1508439496][/doublepost]

I beat that 2500 laptop for under 1000, dual booted windows the whole time I owned mac's so know how stable it is, so all you are trying to do is make yourself feel good. Still own a mac.
[doublepost=1508438959][/doublepost]
Don't try telling the fanboys that feel they need to justify their purchase. 10 is rock solid. Buy whatever you like and I like both but osx is stale and slow compared to 10 in my opinion. Not worth paying 3 times as much for what I want, if someone wants to then good for you. Choice, its great. Getting mad because apple is slipping and ms getting better does nothing though.

Windows 10 is rock solid? Same old Windows under the hood...
OSX Stale and slow? Check out some of the new Macs .. or even couple of year old Macs, they're not slow by any means. Guarantee you my base model MBP could do so many real world tasks multiple-times as quick as that $2500 SurfaceBook..

Microsoft is getting better. but Apple, getting worse?

 

[TechZeke]

Fair enough if that's your personal preference. But if you liked the SP4 so much, why give it away? I think the grass always looks greener..

Because I still have a 15" rMBP for heavy stuff. Since I no longer have any CAD heavy classes, I have no need to have a fully fledged Windows tablet PC that can run engineering stuff.(Trying to move around my 15" rMBP in the Hydraulics lab was just a pain, SP4 was perfect.) For just casual stuff, I like an iPad better. My father on other hand is tired of VMs on his 15" cMBP(he's a controls engineer) and has to carry around a monstrous windows work laptop for work. Having a compact windows machine that can run all his special software is perfect for him.

 

[The Game 161]

Hopefully my macbook pro touch bar 2017 will last me a very long time. See no reason to upgrade it for at least the next 5 years.

 

[BeforeTheMeds]

Windows 10 is rock solid? Same old Windows under the hood...
OSX Stale and slow? Check out some of the new Macs .. or even couple of year old Macs, they're not slow by any means. Guarantee you my base model MBP could do so many real world tasks multiple-times as quick as that $2500 SurfaceBook..

Microsoft is getting better. but Apple, getting worse?

Windows is Rock solid. It hasn't always been but it is now with 10. Never have had a bsod one time bootcamping or running by itself since 10 came out. I also do clean installs on anything I have, no bloatware.

Osx hardly runs at all on a spinner as I said. It was a common complaint in the bootcamp forum when 10 came out, it was faster than osx. Still is. The problem is some tend to worship brands, to me apple is just one of the brands I use. I have a mac, lphone, ipad and atv. I do not need to justify my purchase nor do I need to put a rich company on a pedestal. It's a brand not a family member. I've been doing computers since dos, both windows and mac. Not brand loyal. Not to mention the apple tax is even far more here in mexico than even the us, tired of paying cook's bonuses especially now that windows has caught up.

Apple is getting worse absolutely. Less product for more money, worse. I absolutely wish that wasn't the case.

 

[0989383]

Windows is Rock solid. It hasn't always been but it is now with 10. Never have had a bsod one time bootcamping or running by itself since 10 came out. I also do clean installs on anything I have, no bloatware.

Osx hardly runs at all on a spinner as I said. It was a common complaint in the bootcamp forum when 10 came out, it was faster than osx. Still is. The problem is some tend to worship brands, to me apple is just one of the brands I use. I have a mac, lphone, ipad and atv. I do not need to justify my purchase nor do I need to put a rich company on a pedestal. It's a brand not a family member. I've been doing computers since dos, both windows and mac. Not brand loyal. Not to mention the apple tax is even far more here in mexico than even the us, tired of paying cook's bonuses especially now that windows has caught up.

Apple is getting worse absolutely. Less product for more money, worse. I absolutely wish that wasn't the case.

My experience on Windows 10 was much different. Apologies for the 'drunk' comment, came off as being rude and I didn't want to seem that way - I am somewhat of an Apple Fanboy, admittedly.

 

[ahostmadsen]

I think the central problem for Apple is this: What happens on the Windows side just seems much cooler. They have the Surface, Surface Book, the Surface desktop and then other manufacturers variations and innovations on the same themes. Apple has the touchbar.

When I buy new computers my heart says Windows, but my head says Mac — in the end the whole system of iPhone/iPad/Mac just works better. But shouldn’t Apple be the aspirational product? Didn’t is use to be the opposite: the heart says Mac, but the head says Windows?

 

[Alakagom]

15watt U series CPUs are terrible. They're quick enough, but when you use them in low to medium intensity processing tasks (e.g. restoring say about 10 Chrome tabs) you'll hear fans kicking in and suddenly your 8 hours of battery life on Windows shrinks to 3 and a half... Experience coming from a Lenovo ThinkPad .. i5 7200U, it was fast enough but couldn't last more than a few hours if you actually used it.

Seems I'm not the only one whose realised this as I've read it a few times now..

And that's why everyone is excited about this new 8th generation precisely....

15W CPUs jumped from 2/4 to 4/8 CT which is a huge step up, benchmarks show 50% performance boost over corresponding 7th gen 15W.

While 15W can't compete with 45W in longer tasks, the new 15W 8th gen pretty much equals i7 7700HQ 45W in shorter performances, such as opening tabs, browsers, excel etc.

 

[jerryk]

Hopefully my macbook pro touch bar 2017 will last me a very long time. See no reason to upgrade it for at least the next 5 years.

Hard to say about upgrades. By mid next year likely upgrade all of the 13" MBPs to quad core CPUs and the 15" to 6 core CPUs. Drives will likely get a bit faster and have a lower price to upgrade. 2 years from now we may see configuration with even faster processors, 32 GB options, and Optane drive architectures. And after that perhaps no more Intel CPUs and switch to Axx processors to complete part of Job's vision of "Sand". Silicon sand goes in one side, computer come out the other. Everything Apple branded

 

[ZapNZs]

If history has taught us anything Apple largely ignores the competition, they move at their own sweet pace

Yes, but for a long time, no one was offering anything even remotely close to what Apple had. Do you remember the Surface RT? It was released over half a decade ago, and some of the original reviewers haven't stopped laughing at it since.

Apple still makes great products, but many PC offerings have closed the gap. To me, that seems like more incentive for Apple to do even more with the Mac. And I would go as far to say that recent history has taught us, if anything, that Apple has a more revitalized interest in the Mac lineup now than they have in a long time.

 

[thefriendshipmachine]

I am seriously starting to doubt human rationality here.Whats wrong with everybody?

I posted a simple list of pros and cons, and you replied to me oozing with obnoxious retort for absolutely no reason. If you want to argue with someone you're going to have to put your tail between your legs and go home because I'm not interested. The Surface line has the newer generation of intel CPU and that's just a fact, one that I conveyed. If this fact is enough to cause you to become triggered and freak out then you're just going to have to find a way to deal with it... ""

 

[Queen6]

15" Surface Book is definitely going to replace my rMBP eventually. If I'm going to pay $2500, I should at least get a decent GPU, a nice touchscreen, and some versatility. The mediocre GPU and Touchbar really isn't doing it for me at the MBP's price tag.

This is also in my mind, I've used the Mac for over two decades and as the technology has developed Apple has become more and more staid, now in 2017 I feel that we are rather presented with a mediocre product for the price point. In short the intrinsic value the Mac & OS X represented has dwindled over time for many of us, leaving the door open to other options...

Q-6
[doublepost=1508473251][/doublepost]

You're going to be really p*ssed at Windows for $2500... sure, you gain greater paper specs... say goodbye to macOS .. say goodbye to rock solid reliability...

But you can always make a new account after you sell the SB and come back on here free from any shame for trying ;-)

Are you even using a modern Mac? Apple's desktop OS stability has dramatically decreased over recent years. At home with just basic use they are fine, however put them to task on engineering projects I'm lucky if the system remains stable for more than a few days, nor am I alone with such observations.

I own and use multiple Retina Mac's all exhibit the same instability with Apple's own applications and OS. I also own multiple Windows notebooks including a Surface Book which has yet to crash or present issue in close to a year of heavy use. All are used in professional roles...

Q-6
[doublepost=1508474268][/doublepost]

It's BS because I have as much as time in on my mac as my windows box so that's a moot point. Seriously, I really do not care if you like it or not or if you have to justify by whining about something that does not need to happen. If you actually know how to use a computer you can set it to install and reboot when you want it too. I have mine set to install and reboot at 2am, much easier than whining and sniveling about it. Again it helps to be smart enough to do that

Before I got this laptop I dual booted windows and osx. Had to put osx on ssd before it would run worth a crap and windows 10 on a spinner still was quicker.

I've lost more work in the last two years or so on Mac's thx to Apple's own App's or OS locking up, inversely Windows 10 has yet to raise any issue. I agree if your using you computer professionally the onus is on you to set it up for your needs be it W10 or OS X.

Is irrelevant if the OS or core apps crash and there is only so many questions one can poise to Apple or clean installs to realise that there is some fundamental underlying issue. Personally I would prefer to be using the OS X environment, equally I want it to be reliable and all the pointless bells & whistles removed and included as additional downloadable modules for those that value such trivia.

When it comes down to systems that are directly linked to revenue, brand loyalty is reserved for those that deliver...

Q-6
[doublepost=1508474705][/doublepost]

Yes, but for a long time, no one was offering anything even remotely close to what Apple had. Do you remember the Surface RT? It was released over half a decade ago, and some of the original reviewers haven't stopped laughing at it since.

Apple still makes great products, but many PC offerings have closed the gap. To me, that seems like more incentive for Apple to do even more with the Mac. And I would go as far to say that recent history has taught us, if anything, that Apple has a more revitalized interest in the Mac lineup now than they have in a long time.

Exactly we, especially the professional users should be pushing Apple to deliver, not lap up everything and anything Apple produces. This is one of the reasons why we are now stuck with such a mediocre computing line up. Apple is now simply a phone company and it shows...

Q-6

 

[Queen6]

If Apple managed to fit a 1060 GTX equivalent without having to downgrade the CPU, sure, I'd be all over it instantly. I don't want to sacrifice the CPU performance for that. For me at least, it would be a very noticeable downgrade.

I don't think that throttling is the primary thing to worry about. If I understood it correctly, the burst potential of these new CPUs comes from their ability to briefly go beyond their TDP. How would the system behave though if there is another power-hungry component? The dynamic nature of these CPUs makes them very flexible but also exceedingly difficult to test...

Its combined TDP is basically identical to the 15" MBP, so I don't see a bit mystery here. Reducing the TDP by 30W in one spot gives you 30W to use somewhere else. And 1060 GTX's optimised (Max-Q) TDP is as it happens more or less 30W above the Polaris chips Apple uses...

Well, we've been over this many times now, but I still can't understand where this perception of Apple abandoning the pro's comes from... What they did is release laptop with same kind CPU and GPU performance as any laptop they've ever made before, while making it slightly thinner. For some reason, it seems that this "thinner" thing really bugs some people off, in a fairly irrational manner, especially given the fact that Apple didn't compromise a bit on the innards (like you know, dropping the TDP of the CPU ).

And in regards to connectivity... sure, USB-C requires some readjustment and investment, but don't look at it as "just another connector". Look at it as 16 PCI-E 3.0 lanes exposed by your machine. Which is an incredibly powerful thing. What good is having that 1060 GTX for video editing, if you can't communicate fast enough with your external SSD RAID setup? The thing is, with TB3, you can have all of it. You can have an fast external GPU, a fast external SSD array, and you can still connect a bunch of 4K monitors to your system. This is the kind of flexibility which makes the MBP an excellent professional tool.

Without getting into a wall of text from what I've seem so far the new CPU's perform admirably and as long as the cooling and power supply is adequate there is no reason why they wont hold max frequency as long as is required. In short I doubt many will be disappointed. Be straight Thunderbolt has never had mass uptake nor is it likely to change until the majority of users have a solid requirement for such bandwidth currently.

I'm certainly not against USBC/TB-3 now on my 4th notebook with USB C, equally my observations remain accurate. IMHO Apple moved to USB C first and foremost for aesthetic reasons and to streamline it's production, however Apple being locked in it's own world didn't consider the backlash from it's users.

Q-6

 

[throAU]

Good on Microsoft for coming up with an OS that can work on desktops and tablets. But brah, I need my gestures.

Where “works” = UI / applications suck on both form factors.

 

[0989383]

This is also in my mind, I've used the Mac for over two decades and as the technology has developed Apple has become more and more staid, now in 2017 I feel that we are rather presented with a mediocre product for the price point. In short the intrinsic value the Mac & OS X represented has dwindled over time for many of us, leaving the door open to other options...

Q-6
[doublepost=1508473251][/doublepost]

Are you even using a modern Mac? Apple's desktop OS stability has dramatically decreased over recent years. At home with just basic use they are fine, however put them to task on engineering projects I'm lucky if the system remains stable for more than a few days, nor am I alone with such observations.

I own and use multiple Retina Mac's all exhibit the same instability with Apple's own applications and OS. I also own multiple Windows notebooks including a Surface Book which has yet to crash or present issue in close to a year of heavy use. All are used in professional roles...

Q-6
[doublepost=1508474268][/doublepost]

I've lost more work in the last two years or so on Mac's thx to Apple's own App's or OS locking up, inversely Windows 10 has yet to raise any issue. I agree if your using you computer professionally the onus is on you to set it up for your needs be it W10 or OS X.

Is irrelevant if the OS or core apps crash and there is only so many questions one can poise to Apple or clean installs to realise that there is some fundamental underlying issue. Personally I would prefer to be using the OS X environment, equally I want it to be reliable and all the pointless bells & whistles removed and included as additional downloadable modules for those that value such trivia.

When it comes down to systems that are directly linked to revenue, brand loyalty is reserved for those that deliver...

Q-6
[doublepost=1508474705][/doublepost]

Exactly we, especially the professional users should be pushing Apple to deliver, not lap up everything and anything Apple produces. This is one of the reasons why we are now stuck with such a mediocre computing line up. Apple is now simply a phone company and it shows...

Q-6

Which parts of macOS are you experiencing issues with? Honestly, I want to see if I can replicate it (over time). I’m using a 2017 MBP 13” now so surely it’ll exhibit the issues you’re talking about. I’m not disbelieving you, but if I can see it for myself consider my ‘Mac is the best’ arguments finished

 

[Nixir]

This is also in my mind, I've used the Mac for over two decades and as the technology has developed Apple has become more and more staid, now in 2017 I feel that we are rather presented with a mediocre product for the price point. In short the intrinsic value the Mac & OS X represented has dwindled over time for many of us, leaving the door open to other options...

Q-6
[doublepost=1508473251][/doublepost]

Are you even using a modern Mac? Apple's desktop OS stability has dramatically decreased over recent years. At home with just basic use they are fine, however put them to task on engineering projects I'm lucky if the system remains stable for more than a few days, nor am I alone with such observations.

I own and use multiple Retina Mac's all exhibit the same instability with Apple's own applications and OS. I also own multiple Windows notebooks including a Surface Book which has yet to crash or present issue in close to a year of heavy use. All are used in professional roles...

Q-6
[doublepost=1508474268][/doublepost]

I've lost more work in the last two years or so on Mac's thx to Apple's own App's or OS locking up, inversely Windows 10 has yet to raise any issue. I agree if your using you computer professionally the onus is on you to set it up for your needs be it W10 or OS X.

Is irrelevant if the OS or core apps crash and there is only so many questions one can poise to Apple or clean installs to realise that there is some fundamental underlying issue. Personally I would prefer to be using the OS X environment, equally I want it to be reliable and all the pointless bells & whistles removed and included as additional downloadable modules for those that value such trivia.

When it comes down to systems that are directly linked to revenue, brand loyalty is reserved for those that deliver...

Q-6
[doublepost=1508474705][/doublepost]

Exactly we, especially the professional users should be pushing Apple to deliver, not lap up everything and anything Apple produces. This is one of the reasons why we are now stuck with such a mediocre computing line up. Apple is now simply a phone company and it shows...

Q-6

Took the words right out of my mouth! I am a software engineer and work with variety of systems on a daily basis, pre-Windows 7 days, OSX was vastly superior to it. Today's Windows 10 is a whole different beast, most cross-platform professional apps simply work better, faster, and more stable under Windows, because Microsoft actually bothers to provide support and optimization tools for third party developers. Now my household is still locked into the Apple ecosystem and we have over 20 years of investments into it, but when the next round of system upgrades come, Microsoft simply has more exciting products and the OS itself has matured to become very usable.

 

[Queen6]

Which parts of macOS are you experiencing issues with? Honestly, I want to see if I can replicate it (over time). I’m using a 2017 MBP 13” now so surely it’ll exhibit the issues you’re talking about. I’m not disbelieving you, but if I can see it for myself consider my ‘Mac is the best’ arguments finished

Notably Mail. Preview, Finder, equally your not going to be able to reproduce the load on the system or workflow. I am not suggesting all Mac's do this however under the same load and conditions there is a fair chance they will. The pattern is very clear, soon as the system is loaded up, the likelihood of a crash or lockup significantly increases. Nor is it related to a specific location of facility as we work globally...

I also discussed with a colleague who also runs Mac's in the same role, his response was near identical and he is very much a fan of Apple. He's not switched to Windows yet, equally his next notebook will likely be W10 for the same reasons.

Q-6

 

[Nixir]

Which parts of macOS are you experiencing issues with? Honestly, I want to see if I can replicate it (over time). I’m using a 2017 MBP 13” now so surely it’ll exhibit the issues you’re talking about. I’m not disbelieving you, but if I can see it for myself consider my ‘Mac is the best’ arguments finished

For one App Exposé is broken since 10.12, where my mouse cursor disappears frequently (now Apple has disabled it by default on clean installations, instead of fixing it). As someone who has to navigate around 20+ various types of office/design documents all day long, this has been my favourite osx feature since its debut and it very very annoying that I can no longer depend on it. Secondly, on the exactly same machine, OSX gets slower and bogged down with more bloat with each "update" whereas Windows is getting faster; also with each "update", things that previously function somehow stops working (apparently even Apple's own App Exposé feature can't stay working)...

At the end of the day, Apple can talk all day long about how they care about content creators and industry professionals, but their products don't reflect it.
[doublepost=1508515501][/doublepost]And since we are on the topic of hardware. One word: ports. For professionals working in the field and who frequently have to meet with clients all over the world, yes we care deeply about the future, but we care even more deeply that our tools can function as tools.

It used to be the case that Apple laptops offers the most bells and whistles, stuff that your average consumer would probably never find out or care about: an optical output from the headphone jack (ask any of your audio engineer friends how much they loved it); Firewire; Mini display port? SD card reader; IR receiver? battery light indicator; the list goes on.

Jobs said he was all about making the best products, and Apple was the business of selling only the best products Apple makes - this was the reason he gave for simplifying Apple's offerings. We were happy to pay a premium because we also believed in Job's philosophy. Tim's products only reflects what he really cares about: profits.

 

[0989383]

Notably Mail. Preview, Finder, equally your not going to be able to reproduce the load on the system or workflow. I am not suggesting all Mac's do this however under the same load and conditions there is a fair chance they will. The pattern is very clear, soon as the system is loaded up, the likelihood of a crash or lockup significantly increases. Nor is it related to a specific location of facility as we work globally...

I also discussed with a colleague who also runs Mac's in the same role, his response was near identical and he is very much a fan of Apple. He's not switched to Windows yet, equally his next notebook will likely be W10 for the same reasons.

Q-6

I have a pretty heavy workflow on most of the dock apps and Preview and hardly the most powerful Mac and I've never had a crash on Mail or Preview. On my old MBP I got lock ups due to the SSHD at times and you could see the read/write speed maxing out.

I understand it's different per computer / situation, but I think you guys also need to understand a lot of people do have the same old problems they had years ago even with Windows 10. And they seem to be more vocal about it. Plus, on a Mac orientated forum, you'll always be running an uphill argument (if that makes sense)
[doublepost=1508517431][/doublepost]

For one App Exposé is broken since 10.12, where my mouse cursor disappears frequently (now Apple has disabled it by default on clean installations, instead of fixing it). As someone who has to navigate around 20+ various types of office/design documents all day long, this has been my favourite osx feature since its debut and it very very annoying that I can no longer depend on it. Secondly, on the exactly same machine, OSX gets slower and bogged down with more bloat with each "update" whereas Windows is getting faster; also with each "update", things that previously function somehow stops working (apparently even Apple's own App Exposé feature can't stay working)...

At the end of the day, Apple can talk all day long about how they care about content creators and industry professionals, but their products don't reflect it.
[doublepost=1508515501][/doublepost]And since we are on the topic of hardware. One word: ports. For professionals working in the field and who frequently have to meet with clients all over the world, yes we care deeply about the future, but we care even more deeply that our tools can function as tools.

It used to be the case that Apple laptops offers the most bells and whistles, stuff that your average consumer would probably never find out or care about: an optical output from the headphone jack (ask any of your audio engineer friends how much they loved it); Firewire; Mini display port? SD card reader; IR receiver? battery light indicator; the list goes on.

Jobs said he was all about making the best products, and Apple was the business of selling only the best products Apple makes - this was the reason he gave for simplifying Apple's offerings. We were happy to pay a premium because we also believed in Job's philosophy. Tim's products only reflects what he really cares about: profits.

Of the people who buy MacBooks of all models.. the majority did not use all of the ports, from day one. It makes much more sense to have less ports and have people who actually need them buy an adapter. It would only be complaint worthy if the ports they did include lacked the power to actually drive these things. There are still some 'professional' notebooks in the Windows world with VGA on them and not a single USB-C/Thunderbolt port. Thankfully we're not that neglected.

All notebook computers will be the same - when, I don't know. But it's like how now all of the best Android phones all have built in batteries and storage.. Progress.

 

[jerryk]

Of the people who buy MacBooks of all models.. the majority did not use all of the ports, from day one. It makes much more sense to have less ports and have people who actually need them buy an adapter. It would only be complaint worthy if the ports they did include lacked the power to actually drive these things. There are still some 'professional' notebooks in the Windows world with VGA on them and not a single USB-C/Thunderbolt port. Thankfully we're not that neglected.

You laugh, but I was speaking at a conference a few weeks ago and a lot of the rooms only had VGA inputs to the projector. I was lucky that my room had HDMI, and my 2015 15" MBP had an HDMI port.

 

[Nixir]

Of the people who buy MacBooks of all models.. the majority did not use all of the ports, from day one. It makes much more sense to have less ports and have people who actually need them buy an adapter. It would only be complaint worthy if the ports they did include lacked the power to actually drive these things. There are still some 'professional' notebooks in the Windows world with VGA on them and not a single USB-C/Thunderbolt port. Thankfully we're not that neglected.

The majority of the people can be served by an IPad or the smaller Macbook. My point is Macbook PROs were truly designed for working professionals when it was conceived. Now it shares similar limitations as the Macbook.

 

[0989383]

You laugh, but I was speaking at a conference a few weeks ago and a lot of the rooms only had VGA inputs to the projector. I was lucky that my room had HDMI, and my 2015 15" MBP had an HDMI port.

To be honest, it's down to you to phone ahead and make sure you're prepared for what connection is available in the room. You can't blame Apple for if you had have been unlucky and stuck with VGA etc. Though the whole idea does sound like your typical thread on the Alternatives to Mac section on here.... 'I MESSED UP, SCREW APPLE I'M GOING TO WINDOWS' lol

 

[BeforeTheMeds]

Are you even using a modern Mac? Apple's desktop OS stability has dramatically decreased over recent years. At home with just basic use they are fine, however put them to task on engineering projects I'm lucky if the system remains stable for more than a few days, nor am I alone with such observations.

I own and use multiple Retina Mac's all exhibit the same instability with Apple's own applications and OS. I also own multiple Windows notebooks including a Surface Book which has yet to crash or present issue in close to a year of heavy use. All are used in professional roles...

Q-6
[doublepost=1508474268][/doublepost]

I've lost more work in the last two years or so on Mac's thx to Apple's own App's or OS locking up, inversely Windows 10 has yet to raise any issue. I agree if your using you computer professionally the onus is on you to set it up for your needs be it W10 or OS X.

Is irrelevant if the OS or core apps crash and there is only so many questions one can poise to Apple or clean installs to realise that there is some fundamental underlying issue. Personally I would prefer to be using the OS X environment, equally I want it to be reliable and all the pointless bells & whistles removed and included as additional downloadable modules for those that value such trivia.

When it comes down to systems that are directly linked to revenue, brand loyalty is reserved for those that deliver...

Q-6
[doublepost=1508474705][/doublepost]

Exactly we, especially the professional users should be pushing Apple to deliver, not lap up everything and anything Apple produces. This is one of the reasons why we are now stuck with such a mediocre computing line up. Apple is now simply a phone company and it shows...

Q-6

Really a well stated post. That last paragraph is gold and why I am moving away. Not gone but moving away. Brand loyalty and worship makes it tougher on those looking for a good product at a good price. It removes the incentive for the rich company to do anything but get richer.
[doublepost=1508539589][/doublepost]

Took the words right out of my mouth! I am a software engineer and work with variety of systems on a daily basis, pre-Windows 7 days, OSX was vastly superior to it. Today's Windows 10 is a whole different beast, most cross-platform professional apps simply work better, faster, and more stable under Windows, because Microsoft actually bothers to provide support and optimization tools for third party developers. Now my household is still locked into the Apple ecosystem and we have over 20 years of investments into it, but when the next round of system upgrades come, Microsoft simply has more exciting products and the OS itself has matured to become very usable.

I agree 7 was a big step closer, 10 was a flying leap. A clean install of 10 gets me no bsods and degrades even less than osx. Contrary to what some like to claim osx even on an ssd boots slower even sooner than 10. Not hate at all on apple, just a realist and sad that's the way it has to be, I truly wish it wasn't. When running bootcamp it's absolutely an apples to apples comparison. OSX also used more memory on the same mac.

I really hate what has happened and blind brand worship does nothing at all to change anything.

 

[jerryk]

To be honest, it's down to you to phone ahead and make sure you're prepared for what connection is available in the room. You can't blame Apple for if you had have been unlucky and stuck with VGA etc. Though the whole idea does sound like your typical thread on the Alternatives to Mac section on here.... 'I MESSED UP, SCREW APPLE I'M GOING TO WINDOWS' lol

Quite honestly you are just deflecting. I was just trying to point out that old tech exists out there. Let's leave it at that.

 

[BeforeTheMeds]

Quite honestly you are just deflecting. I was just trying to point out that old tech exists out there. Let's leave it at that.

Deflect and bring up apple's profit margin. That's the argument from those that buy for brand name.