Surface Devices

[LeeW]

One thing I really did like was editing or creating something on the IPP using affinity or Pixelmator using Sidecar as the pencil made it easier then I could just switch it back to the desktop to finish off. Some aspects of the way they integrate things are good.

But as many will argue and I agree, they could make the MBP touch screen and have a more flexible hinge, allow the pencil to be used on the MBP and why would you need an IPP? But then that is the Apple way, you need to buy both!

 

[Queen6]

To be fair I don’t think you can blame Apple if someone drops their iPad and it breaks. Most devices will do that if you drop them, including your smartphone.

What I would blame Apple for is if my iPad arrived bent like some people have reported. The quest for thinness can have its issues.

Dave, the iPad should however be reasonably durable given the intended usage. I've dropped my phone's numerous times and so far they've been OK. Nor should the touch panel develop issues over a short period of time. Apple cuts corners, yet people keep throwing their money at the rotten fruit and excusing Apple's poor design.

My Acer Switch 5 has literally been around the world from the sub Artic to the jungles of Papua New Guinea, cost around $600 has a very solid build quality with an integral stand and keyboard cover, meanwhile at Apple...

Q-6

 

[Dave245]

Dave, the iPad should however be reasonably durable given the intended usage. I've dropped my phone's numerous times and so far they've been OK. Nor should the touch panel develop issues over a short period of time. Apple cuts corners, yet people keep throwing their money at the rotten fruit and excusing Apple's poor design.

My Acer Switch 5 has literally been around the world from the sub Artic to the jungles of Papua New Guinea, cost around $600 has a very solid build quality with an integral stand and keyboard cover, meanwhile at Apple...

Q-6

I agree they should be more durable, especially the newer (2018 onwards) model, that version seems to be less durable than previous versions. They are thinner by about 15% I think. I do like the design, thinner bezels and the removal of the home button in favour of Face ID I think are great. They could however of reinforced the frame to make it stronger.

I also agree about the touch issues, something I experienced on my first 2017 iPad Pro that eventually lead to it dying on me. I’m now experiencing the same with the replacement they sent me in late 2018.

 

[Expos of 1969]

Dave, the iPad should however be reasonably durable given the intended usage. I've dropped my phone's numerous times and so far they've been OK. Nor should the touch panel develop issues over a short period of time. Apple cuts corners, yet people keep throwing their money at the rotten fruit and excusing Apple's poor design.

So very true. You can lead a horse to water but.....

 

[Queen6]

I agree they should be more durable, especially the newer (2018 onwards) model, that version seems to be less durable than previous versions. They are thinner by about 15% I think. I do like the design, thinner bezels and the removal of the home button in favour of Face ID I think are great. They could however of reinforced the frame to make it stronger.

I also agree about the touch issues, something I experienced on my first 2017 iPad Pro that eventually lead to it dying on me. I’m now experiencing the same with the replacement they sent me in late 2018.

That's my point, I don't expect absolute durability, however Apple's nonsensical obsession with making everything thinner is simply working against the users and just another excuse for Apple reduce usability & upgradeability ever more. Phones & Tablets are handheld devices and should be able to withstand minor drops simple as that.

Personally I don't reward companies with my custom be it for personal or professional use if they continuously focus on themselves and design/produce flawed products of which Apple is major offender. How Apple dealt with the 2016 design notebooks is all you need to know how the company works internally and how little Apple actually values it's customers.

Said for many years that the best thing Apple sells is Apple and it shows...

Q-6

 

[SteveJUAE]

I was hoping I could get the 15" rather than 13" but at the moment it seems not. Wondering whether they will add it.

Yes the 15" is much better value, Odd UK specs etc are different and colours
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I agree the iPad Pro from 2018 onwards seems to be less sturdy, there are a few cases of them even arriving to people bent straight out of the box. They should make them more durable even if that means making them a little more heavy.

That being said, i do really like the look of the new iPad Pro's with Face ID (which i really like on my iPhone 11 Pro Max). The reduction in bezel is great and i'm a sucker for the space grey colour! also i recently (the other day in fact) found out that with the Magic Keyboard (yes that insanely priced accessory) it can be used to edit video in LumaFusion, an App i use on my current iPad Pro (2017 model) it's a great app that also works with Final Cut Pro, when i want hand off the editing over to my 2019 13" MacBook Pro i can do that. With this new keyboard on the iPad Pro 2020, i may find that i spend more time editing on the iPad than i do on my Mac. Something i would never of thought possible a few years ago.

That is where the conflict comes in, while i do like the possibilities with all of this, i do also recognise Apple has issues!

Dave stick with the devil you know, please buy an IPP 🙂

You can always sell it come Micro LED update time and think about the new Neo that should also be out by then

 

[Queen6]

So very true. You can lead a horse to water but.....

As long as people keep buying Apple has absolutely no reason to change. Personally I believe Apple wants out of the desktop OS and focus on IOS based devices and services. This is why I think Apple barely plays lip service to the Mac and just wants an excuse to kill it in the current form. Apple's problem is that it simply can't cull the Mac nor does it want to loose the revenue, rather more nudge the users to a model far closer to IOS, entrapping them ever deeper in Apple's ecosystem.

For Microsoft Surface is more a vehicle to keep it's name current and illustrate what it's desktop OS can do with well designed hardware. Surface is gaining more traction as the range grows and the word passes that the Surface systems are actually pretty decent although pricy. Personally the merits of Surface are what attracted me to the Mac many moons ago, which have sadly long since evaporated with Apple barely capable of designing a computer without having one issue or another...

Q-6

 

[LeeW]

Personally I believe Apple wants out of the desktop OS and focus on IOS based devices and services.

Been saying this for almost a year now.

Tim sees the change in the market, the way people are using devices, he is good at that, so he is moving Apple more and more to chase the services revenue with a smaller range at cheaper prices.

The iPhone SE is not Apple being nice or considering what people really want through a cheaper phone.

To focus on services and the revenue it generates he must grow the Apple customer base further than it ever has in the past, he needs Apple devices to become popular with everyone, at the end of the day, you can only sell services to people with an Apple device, nobody else is interested in them.

So the 'cheap' iPhone will drive more customers to Apple, maybe they will buy an iPad, so now a game subscription, news+, Apple TV and so on.

In time I really believe what you will see is that they will move entirely to their own chips, then it means you will see a version of IOS and iPadOS that can run whatever macOS can. Fewer MBP sales, more iPhone and iPad sales in the future, that is the way the average consumer is heading and thus where the bulk of revenue is going to come from.

Then your ridiculous, over-engineered units like the Mac Pro will satisfy the hipsters.

 

[Queen6]

Been saying this for almost a year now.

Tim sees the change in the market, the way people are using devices, he is good at that, so he is moving Apple more and more to chase the services revenue with a smaller range at cheaper prices.

The iPhone SE is not Apple being nice or considering what people really want through a cheaper phone.

To focus on services and the revenue it generates he must grow the Apple customer base further than it ever has in the past, he needs Apple devices to become popular with everyone, at the end of the day, you can only sell services to people with an Apple device, nobody else is interested in them.

So the 'cheap' iPhone will drive more customers to Apple, maybe they will buy an iPad, so now a game subscription, news+, Apple TV and so on.

In time I really believe what you will see is that they will move entirely to their own chips, then it means you will see a version of IOS and iPadOS that can run whatever macOS can. Fewer MBP sales, more iPhone and iPad sales in the future, that is the way the average consumer is heading and thus where the bulk of revenue is going to come from.

Then your ridiculous, over-engineered units like the Mac Pro will satisfy the hipsters.

That's how I see it; Apple wants an Apple device in as many hands as possible, with that device firmly tethered to Apple and subsequent monthly revenue from services. The Mac in it's current form doesn't allow being too open for Apple's liking so the obvious will happen sooner or later.

Personally I want a more open product where I the user make the decisions not Apple. Ideally I'd like to move to Linux, however it's not practical on several levels, although on my next hardware cycle I'll certainly be more mindful of seeking a compatible device. I don't have any issue with W10, likely just the old Mac sceptic inside 😆

Q-6

 

[Mendota]

I was hoping I could get the 15" rather than 13" but at the moment it seems not. Wondering whether they will add it.
[automerge]1591082520[/automerge]


I agree mostly, but it was not a crashing fall from height or anything, it was sitting on a table with a glass top, all that happened was that is fell forward whilst sitting on the stand. An £800 device should not be so fragile in my view. If it had fallen off the table to the concrete patio below, different story. That is the quest for thinness you mentioned.

I think that they will add it. My impression is that Samsung was caught off guard by how well it is selling. Best Buy here in the US is sold out, and Amazon also does not have the 15 inch size. I had to go directly to Samsung and it will not be delivered until the 16th of June. I think they are now trying to ramp it up.

 

[LeeW]

Best Buy here in the US is sold out, and Amazon also does not have the 15 inch size.

I just noticed that Amazon UK now has the 13" listed.

Getting old, you know. Well, the eyes are. Whilst the difference is not significant the 15" would make a difference. Going to hold for now, even if I did my usual impulse buy of the 13" it is not being released for a couple of weeks so I could not get it anyway, will see whether the 15" appears anywhere.

 

[The_Interloper]

 

[Dave245]

I already posted the link to that video in an earlier post. It’s a very interesting video, the guy said that he had 2 of the MacBook Pro’s, the 16” version which he sent back. Not being able to keep up and feeling like a downgrade, that’s not good for a “Pro” device.

I hope he does a follow up video with his thoughts on the Surface Book 3 and his comparisons against the Mac.

 

[SteveJUAE]

MS GO 2 and SB3 both now available for pre order here in KL

Disappointing price the GO 2 is nearly $150 more than US and the SB3 15" I7 32/512 is only $100 more

 

[The_Interloper]

I already posted the link to that video in an earlier post.

Apologies, I missed it in the preceding 104 pages. 🙂

The look on his face when he pulls that screen off for the first time. 😎 That's the thing about the Surface Book right there. If that doesn't convince people then I don't know what will, it's just not for them. I absolutely love mine, puts a smile on my face whenever I use it. And, yes, I use it just as much as a tablet as I do a laptop.

I've had nothing but iPads for years and I just can't see the point any more, especially in the iPad Pro (which I've had every iteration of, including the 2020 12.9" which I just returned). There's nothing "Pro" about it. It has almost no advantage over the basic entry-level model - same OS, pencil support, mobile apps etc - and the file system is a complete and utter farce. Don't get me started on the price of that silicone-coated "Magic" Keyboard.

All I keep hearing from naysayers over and over is how the Surface is a terrible tablet experience. I just don't get it. Don't people want to be able to use touch in a full desktop browser? Don't people want to be able to block ads in YouTube? How about connecting an external display without just mirroring? The iPad may be optimised for touch, but Windows is perfectly capable too.

Seriously, what is so bad about touch in Windows? When I scroll a webpage with my finger, it moves up and down – as expected. When I pinch, it zooms in and out – as expected. When I use multitouch gestures, they work – as expected. What, exactly, is so magical about the tablet experience on an iPad in comparison?

If it's the small touch targets in desktop Windows apps, well that's the price of having that power and convenience. If the mobile app ecosystem is a bit sparse for Windows, it's because it doesn't really need it. And you can always scale up the UI slightly or just use a pen instead of your finger anyway.

I don't know…maybe I'm just talking into the void. If people just want an iPad for touch and a separate Mac for everything else, that's cool. But I just don't get the hesitation people seem to have for having both on Windows when, in my experience, it's nothing but completely convenient and works just fine.

 

[Dave245]

Apologies, I missed it in the preceding 104 pages. 🙂

The look on his face when he pulls that screen off for the first time. 😎 That's the thing about the Surface Book right there. If that doesn't convince people then I don't know what will, it's just not for them. I absolutely love mine, puts a smile on my face whenever I use it. And, yes, I use it just as much as a tablet as I do a laptop.

I've had nothing but iPads for years and I just can't see the point any more, especially in the iPad Pro (which I've had every iteration of, including the 2020 12.9" which I just returned). There's nothing "Pro" about it. It has almost no advantage over the basic entry-level model - same OS, pencil support, mobile apps etc - and the file system is a complete and utter farce. Don't get me started on the price of that silicone-coated "Magic" Keyboard.

All I keep hearing from naysayers over and over is how the Surface is a terrible tablet experience. I just don't get it. Don't people want to be able to use touch in a full desktop browser? Don't people want to be able to block ads in YouTube? How about connecting an external display without just mirroring? The iPad may be optimised for touch, but Windows is perfectly capable too.

Seriously, what is so bad about touch in Windows? When I scroll a webpage with my finger, it moves up and down – as expected. When I pinch, it zooms in and out – as expected. When I use multitouch gestures, they work – as expected. What, exactly, is so magical about the tablet experience on an iPad in comparison?

If it's the small touch targets in desktop Windows apps, well that's the price of having that power and convenience. If the mobile app ecosystem is a bit sparse for Windows, it's because it doesn't really need it. And you can always scale up the UI slightly or just use a pen instead of your finger anyway.

I don't know…maybe I'm just talking into the void. If people just want an iPad for touch and a separate Mac for everything else, that's cool. But I just don't get the hesitation people seem to have for having both on Windows when, in my experience, it's nothing but completely convenient and works just fine.

It’s all good, I don’t expect anyone to read 104 pages that would just be insane 😂

You had the Magic Keyboard? and it only uses silicone, for that price I thought they were using a more premium material. Can I asked why you returned it? I’ve also had every iPad Pro since they first introduced it in 2015. Now on my 2017 iPad Pro which has had touch disease issues (now on my replacement device which also seems to have the same issue).

 

[LeeW]

Apologies, I missed it in the preceding 104 pages

Don't apologise, just read the entire thread properly. 😀

 

[The_Interloper]

You had the Magic Keyboard? and it only uses silicone, for that price I thought they were using a more premium material. Can I asked why you returned it? I’ve also had every iPad Pro since they first introduced it in 2015. Now on my 2017 iPad Pro which has had touch disease issues (now on my replacement device which also seems to have the same issue).

I had the 2020 12.9" iPad Pro and returned it. In fact:

• 12.9" 1st gen iPad Pro – touch disease, replaced under warranty (subsequently sold replacement)
• 12.9" 2nd gen iPad Pro – touch disease, replaced under warranty (subsequently sold replacement)
• 11" 2018 iPad Pro –touch disease in second year, replaced under AppleCare+ (subsequently sold replacement)
• 12.9" 2020 iPad Pro – touch disease, returned within first fourteen days

See a pattern here? I've come to the conclusion that the iPad Pro is simply too thin with a delicate internal structure and, while I may not be able to prove it, the touch disease is simply a consequence of too much stuff squished together in such a thin package with zero cooling. Or the software is junk. Or both.

I've also had a couple of the Smart Keyboards (the original origami abomination and the 2018 version), two of which eventually stopped working. There's no way on earth I would pay £349 for the new Magic Keyboard for several reasons:

1. It uses the same cheap and nasty grey silicone on the outside that is found on a £10 Amazon cover;
2. It weighs more than the iPad itself so isn't really a portable keyboard but a dock/stand in disguise;
3. The angle of the iPad is extremely limited, leading to…
4. Fingers hitting on the bottom of the iPad when you try to use the number row, due to the overhang.

Note that criticisms 3 and 4 are down to inherent design flaws in the iPad itself not having a self-supporting mechanism of some kind (e.g. a kickstand) and relying on an extra accessory to do this job whilst battling the laws of gravity.

 

[Dave245]

I had the 2020 12.9" iPad Pro and returned it. In fact:

• 12.9" 1st gen iPad Pro – touch disease, replaced under warranty (subsequently sold replacement)
• 12.9" 2nd gen iPad Pro – touch disease, replaced under warranty (subsequently sold replacement)
• 11" 2018 iPad Pro –touch disease in second year, replaced under AppleCare+ (subsequently sold replacement)
• 12.9" 2020 iPad Pro – touch disease, returned within first fourteen days

See a pattern here? I've come to the conclusion that the iPad Pro is simply too thin with a delicate internal structure and, while I may not be able to prove it, the touch disease is simply a consequence of too much stuff squished together in such a thin package with zero cooling. Or the software is junk. Or both.

I've also had a couple of the Smart Keyboards (the original origami abomination and the 2018 version), two of which eventually stopped working. There's no way on earth I would pay £349 for the new Magic Keyboard for several reasons:

1. It uses the same cheap and nasty grey silicone on the outside that is found on a £10 Amazon cover;
2. It weighs more than the iPad itself so isn't really a portable keyboard but a dock/stand in disguise;
3. The angle of the iPad is extremely limited, leading to…
4. Fingers hitting on the bottom of the iPad when you try to use the number row, due to the overhang.

Note that criticisms 3 and 4 are down to inherent design flaws in the iPad itself not having a self-supporting mechanism of some kind (e.g. a kickstand) and relying on an extra accessory to do this job whilst battling the laws of gravity.

Wow that is bad! My 2015 iPad Pro was fine, in fact my dad is using it since I upgraded to the 2017 version. It was with the 2017 version that I had issues, the first 15 or so months were fine but then it wouldn’t respond to touch and the screen would have lines go across it, eventually it died and so I contacted Apple. At first Apple wanted me to pay £500 for an out of warranty repair, I was not happy and so I fired off an email to Tim Cook and Phil Schiller, I got a phone call within a couple of hours from Apple executive relations. The next day I sent out the dead iPad and within 24 hours after that I received a replacement.

Now it seems like I’m having the same issue again, this one I’m typing on now, will suddenly stop recognising the touch and then suddenly start working again within a few seconds.

£349 is insane for a keyboard, for that price I did think it was going to be more premium.

 

[Queen6]

I had the 2020 12.9" iPad Pro and returned it. In fact:

• 12.9" 1st gen iPad Pro – touch disease, replaced under warranty (subsequently sold replacement)
• 12.9" 2nd gen iPad Pro – touch disease, replaced under warranty (subsequently sold replacement)
• 11" 2018 iPad Pro –touch disease in second year, replaced under AppleCare+ (subsequently sold replacement)
• 12.9" 2020 iPad Pro – touch disease, returned within first fourteen days

See a pattern here? I've come to the conclusion that the iPad Pro is simply too thin with a delicate internal structure and, while I may not be able to prove it, the touch disease is simply a consequence of too much stuff squished together in such a thin package with zero cooling. Or the software is junk. Or both.

I've also had a couple of the Smart Keyboards (the original origami abomination and the 2018 version), two of which eventually stopped working. There's no way on earth I would pay £349 for the new Magic Keyboard for several reasons:

1. It uses the same cheap and nasty grey silicone on the outside that is found on a £10 Amazon cover;
2. It weighs more than the iPad itself so isn't really a portable keyboard but a dock/stand in disguise;
3. The angle of the iPad is extremely limited, leading to…
4. Fingers hitting on the bottom of the iPad when you try to use the number row, due to the overhang.

Note that criticisms 3 and 4 are down to inherent design flaws in the iPad itself not having a self-supporting mechanism of some kind (e.g. a kickstand) and relying on an extra accessory to do this job whilst battling the laws of gravity.

IMO Apple no longer designs with longevity in mind, more just enough reliability to just keep the customer happy until the next "fix" arrives. Apple very much portrays itself and being ecologically responsible, however goes on to deliberately design some of the most unrepairable, non upgradable products on the market and then enforces strict regulation to prevent any third party repair. This is ecologically irresponsible by default and solely driven by Apple's greed and vanity, like much these days is all talk...

Like the Butterfly Keyboard Apple sometimes miscalculates and drops the ball resulting in significant cost, equally you can bet that the cost is fed right back to the consumer, as Apple isn't in the business of loosing money for one second. Everything Apple does is baked into the pricing of it's hardware including it's screwups. Just look at the total cost of all the IPP you've had issues with, who pays? Guaranteed it's not Apple.

I wouldn't have issue with Apple if it produced solid products as it once did. Yes some were flawed, equally similar to the MS Surface team you could sense that there was a real passion for the hardware & software. Today it all feels very much about the $$$$ and little else. Once Apple under promised and often over delivered, today the reverse is sadly far more accurate with big spec numbers that are not remotely realistic and

Ultimately we here on MR are not Apple's target audience; Apple wants those who don't challenge and gleefully upgrade on each cycle with as few questions as possible. Personally I gave up on iPad as the software was a joke requiring convoluted workarounds to perform basic tasks one would accomplish on a PC or Mac.

What irritates the most is Apple now solely designs for Apple not the customer and treats us like idiots. So very disappointing how Apple has evolved, giving me absolutely no reason to purchase it's hardware. Once we were 100% Apple today zero and for good reason....

Q-6

 

[LeeW]

Apple wants those who don't challenge and gleefully upgrade on each cycle with as few questions as possible.

To be fair to Apple that is exactly what they get, so why rock the boat? Customers are cash cows, buy a device, buy another device, you now can't buy anything but two more devices later as you can't mix them anything but Apple. Buy apps, lots of apps, then buy our services.

Don't get me wrong, if I could do what Apple does and get away with it I would do it as well. Google, Microsoft and others want what Apple has and would milk us just as dry if they could.

Microsoft are nearly there, they now have laptops, desktops, tablets, headphones, earphones and so on. If they get the Neo/Duo right then they will get there. But fortunately, it will be a choice to be within a Microsoft eco-system, you will be able to mix and match without being tied to them specifically, well, for now 🙂

 

[LeeW]

Oh, dear, who is the angry birdy? @chikorita157 why not tell us why instead of just being angry at the comments, or are you too deep in apples pockets that you just hate anything bad said about them? You seem to do it a lot. Some of us have been Apple loyal for 20+ years up to recently, so tell us why we are wrong.

 

[chikorita157]

Oh, dear, who is the angry birdy? @chikorita157 why not tell us why instead of just being angry at the comments, or are you too deep in apples pockets that you just hate anything bad said about them? You seem to do it a lot. Some of us have been Apple loyal for 20+ years up to recently, so tell us why we are wrong.

I do not nessarily agree with the posts. Sure, Apple is not perfect, but I have worse experience when it comes to Windows, especially with the lack of control taken away with forced updates, privacy issues, shoving ads in Windows 10, Group Policies to disable certain features taken away from the Pro version and only available on the Enterprise version. Also, I find Windows 10 a very pleasant experience and I have perhaps encountered more blue screens inside Windows 10 VMs, more so than on macOS or even on Linux. But yes, I do work on Windows systems for my daytime job and I definitely do not want to use it as my daily driver. In my opinion, the only last good OS Microsoft made is Windows 7. Everything else basically turned to crap, maybe except their Server operating systems maybe. Still, while I do not like Windows, I still find Office 365 a better service than what Google provides or even iWork and OpenOffice.

I also own a Surface Pro 2 and while it's a good idea on paper, in practice not so much. It's nice to run full desktop apps, but the experience, especially with touch isn't so great. Also, it started developing a yellow tint issue, which none of my Macbook Pros have any issues. In fact, I hardly experienced any hardware issues on my Macbook Pros, probably except the Late 2008 Macbook Pro when the Unibodies first came out, but it got replaced. On the other hand, I do not have any issues with my iPad Pros from heavy use and I don't go around abusing the crap out of it either. I find the experience with iPadOS a lot better than Windows 10 with touch. If I need Windows 10, I can simply remote into a machine on an iPad Pro with the Magic Keyboard attachment or use a desktop with it installed or virtual machine.

But in short, I am not a vocal minority as my experiences with Apple products are better. Sure, there are some questionable business practices with Apple, especially with the lack of repairability, but I believe that the grass is not necessarily better on the other side. I use what fits my needs and everyone should. I would not ever consider another Surface product mostly because I don't like Windows, but also from my past experiences and the lack of Thunderbolt 3. If I really need to switch, which is very unlikely since I need Adobe apps and Microsoft Office, I would go with a business class workstation running Linux distribution such as Red Hat Enterprise Linux or similar. I would never bear myself to use Windows 10 as a daily driver or even anything from the Surface lineup from my past experiences.

 

[kazmac]

Been saying this for almost a year now.

Tim sees the change in the market, the way people are using devices, he is good at that, so he is moving Apple more and more to chase the services revenue with a smaller range at cheaper prices.

The iPhone SE is not Apple being nice or considering what people really want through a cheaper phone.

To focus on services and the revenue it generates he must grow the Apple customer base further than it ever has in the past, he needs Apple devices to become popular with everyone, at the end of the day, you can only sell services to people with an Apple device, nobody else is interested in them.

So the 'cheap' iPhone will drive more customers to Apple, maybe they will buy an iPad, so now a game subscription, news+, Apple TV and so on.

In time I really believe what you will see is that they will move entirely to their own chips, then it means you will see a version of IOS and iPadOS that can run whatever macOS can. Fewer MBP sales, more iPhone and iPad sales in the future, that is the way the average consumer is heading and thus where the bulk of revenue is going to come from.

Then your ridiculous, over-engineered units like the Mac Pro will satisfy the hipsters.

Valid points.

I am not a fan of Apple’s services outside of those I’ve been using for the past decade: iTunes and the App Store.

Yes, I‘ve spent more than I expected recently, but even with the SE I resist iCloud, Music etc. The same goes for Microsoft, not a fan of always being signed in etc.

Anyway,

I had the 2020 12.9" iPad Pro and returned it. In fact:

• 12.9" 1st gen iPad Pro – touch disease, replaced under warranty (subsequently sold replacement)
• 12.9" 2nd gen iPad Pro – touch disease, replaced under warranty (subsequently sold replacement)
• 11" 2018 iPad Pro –touch disease in second year, replaced under AppleCare+ (subsequently sold replacement)
• 12.9" 2020 iPad Pro – touch disease, returned within first fourteen days

See a pattern here? I've come to the conclusion that the iPad Pro is simply too thin with a delicate internal structure and, while I may not be able to prove it, the touch disease is simply a consequence of too much stuff squished together in such a thin package with zero cooling. Or the software is junk. Or both.

I've also had a couple of the Smart Keyboards (the original origami abomination and the 2018 version), two of which eventually stopped working. There's no way on earth I would pay £349 for the new Magic Keyboard for several reasons:

1. It uses the same cheap and nasty grey silicone on the outside that is found on a £10 Amazon cover;
2. It weighs more than the iPad itself so isn't really a portable keyboard but a dock/stand in disguise;
3. The angle of the iPad is extremely limited, leading to…
4. Fingers hitting on the bottom of the iPad when you try to use the number row, due to the overhang.

Note that criticisms 3 and 4 are down to inherent design flaws in the iPad itself not having a self-supporting mechanism of some kind (e.g. a kickstand) and relying on an extra accessory to do this job whilst battling the laws of gravity.

Yup. Touch disease: it’s both hardware and software.

I’ve dealt with this on every single iPad Pro (and just about every iPad model Apple has released since 2017). Masochist me here bought a 2020 cellular 11” for work and it didn’t work with Citrix, amongst other things. To be fair, the Lenovo Yoga I bought for the same purpose doesn’t work with Citrix either and has a garbage WiFi card.

I am debating if I want to risk my health for possible -not definite- store credit for the Lenovo.

Anyway, back on topic, glad you like the Surface Book. Thanks for the comparisons.

 

[Mendota]

I do not nessarily agree with the posts. Sure, Apple is not perfect, but I have worse experience when it comes to Windows, especially with the lack of control taken away with forced updates, privacy issues, shoving ads in Windows 10, Group Policies to disable certain features taken away from the Pro version and only available on the Enterprise version. Also, I find Windows 10 a very pleasant experience and I have perhaps encountered more blue screens inside Windows 10 VMs, more so than on macOS or even on Linux. But yes, I do work on Windows systems for my daytime job and I definitely do not want to use it as my daily driver. In my opinion, the only last good OS Microsoft made is Windows 7. Everything else basically turned to crap, maybe except their Server operating systems maybe. Still, while I do not like Windows, I still find Office 365 a better service than what Google provides or even iWork and OpenOffice.

I also own a Surface Pro 2 and while it's a good idea on paper, in practice not so much. It's nice to run full desktop apps, but the experience, especially with touch isn't so great. Also, it started developing a yellow tint issue, which none of my Macbook Pros have any issues. In fact, I hardly experienced any hardware issues on my Macbook Pros, probably except the Late 2008 Macbook Pro when the Unibodies first came out, but it got replaced. On the other hand, I do not have any issues with my iPad Pros from heavy use and I don't go around abusing the crap out of it either. I find the experience with iPadOS a lot better than Windows 10 with touch. If I need Windows 10, I can simply remote into a machine on an iPad Pro with the Magic Keyboard attachment or use a desktop with it installed or virtual machine.

But in short, I am not a vocal minority as my experiences with Apple products are better. Sure, there are some questionable business practices with Apple, especially with the lack of repairability, but I believe that the grass is not necessarily better on the other side. I use what fits my needs and everyone should. I would not ever consider another Surface product mostly because I don't like Windows, but also from my past experiences and the lack of Thunderbolt 3. If I really need to switch, which is very unlikely since I need Adobe apps and Microsoft Office, I would go with a business class workstation running Linux distribution such as Red Hat Enterprise Linux or similar. I would never bear myself to use Windows 10 as a daily driver or even anything from the Surface lineup from my past experiences.

Updates on Windows are no more forced than they are on MacOS and IOS. On IOS in particular Apple does everything they can to force you to update, and there is no road back when things go wrong. It is also difficult to go back in MacOS. In Windows it is very easy to roll back an update. In addition Microsoft has been listening to users and they have made it quite easy to schedule and stop updates on all Windows machines. Apple contrarily makes it a point to ignore the complaints of users (the keyboard fiasco being just one example). It is fine if you prefer MacOS and are willing to put up with Apples restrictions, but don't delude yourself as to their draconian control and greed. For example I use to make it a point to use my MacBook Pro machines as a duel boot for Linux. Apple has made sure with their T2 chip that that is no longer an option. The T2 chip exist for no other reason than for Apple to control it's users, to force them to use Apple repair (another example) so that they can milk them for all they are worth.

As far as Thunderbolt 3 goes, Microsoft is concerned with some security issues that have been reported. In addition Thunderbolt 3 is most often used on "video challenged" macs to add an extended GPU. The Surface Book comes with very capable GPU with 6 gigs of video ram made by the best GPU maker in the market, so there is less desire and need with Surface products. If you want to continue to be used by Apple and put up with the limitation they impose, no one is stopping you, but it always pays to keep on open mind so that you don't get taken advantage of. I have run a lot of operating systems in my day, to include the BEos, various Linux distros (KDE plasma being my favorite), OS2, OS2 Warp, Geoworks back in the 286 days, MacOS 3 to 9, and of course Windows so I know the color of the grass in a lot of pastures.