I don't agree with some of your comments but I appreciate you coming back and explaining.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Surface Devices
- Thread starter Dave245
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I don't agree with some of your comments but I appreciate you coming back and explaining.
To be fair to Apple that is exactly what they get, so why rock the boat? Customers are cash cows, buy a device, buy another device, you now can't buy anything but two more devices later as you can't mix them anything but Apple. Buy apps, lots of apps, then buy our services.
Don't get me wrong, if I could do what Apple does and get away with it I would do it as well. Google, Microsoft and others want what Apple has and would milk us just as dry if they could.
Microsoft are nearly there, they now have laptops, desktops, tablets, headphones, earphones and so on. If they get the Neo/Duo right then they will get there. But fortunately, it will be a choice to be within a Microsoft eco-system, you will be able to mix and match without being tied to them specifically, well, for now
Core Rot
That's the thing the other OEM's are more open don't obstruct, force and lockdown their products. Apple on the other hand aggressively does so and with a double helping of hypocrisy. This why I ditched Apple for any professional use, Apple has systematically proved itself on numerous occasions that it's not capable of designing solid reliable hardware intended for professional level use. Apple far prefers to slap the "Pro" moniker on anything it can to attract and sell to the uninformed at a higher price.
If anything "Pro" with Apple means; more expensive, more likely to have design issues and less reliable. Any with doubts need only to research the history of the 15" MBP it's literally a joke at just how many models over the years have had significant issue, topped of with four years of the Butterfly auto fail keyboard that will be costing it's customers royally once Apple's minimum fix expires.
What needs to happen to Apple is it should be forced to refund or actually replace every single one the computers irrespective of age with hardware that works as advertised. Only then will Apple cease to cut corners and produce such unmitigated rubbish. Although I was a long time Apple user it's always been a curiosity how people literally fawn over Apple, more so now the fruit is rotten to the core driven by greed & vanity.
I honestly wish Apple would spin off the Mac and let those that care about the platform deal with it. Personally I believe sales would increase with the line offering greater usability, reliability and something much lacking innovation, however under Tim & Co the Mac is viewed merely as an inconvenient artefact from the past they would gleefully bury if they could get away with it and how they've tried.
The Apple has literally fallen very far from the tree...
Q-6
Indeed, the last hope for me was the Mac Mini, I would have been happy to use that for the things I like macOS most and Windows for everything else. But even that;
1. Upgrade to Catalina, HMDI stops working, must use USB-C for display.
2. Bluetooth stops working if you plug in a USB hub, solution? You need to keep it about 2ft away due to interference.
3. Upgradeable ram, yay! Oh, Apple says you can't do it yourself and only they can do it or risk warranty issues.
Show me a device from the last 4 years that just ****ing works!
Certainly seems to be the case. The 2020 iPad Pro I briefly had began exhibiting it after 4 days; this was a total scrolling freeze (the occasional tapping of links still worked) and an inability to "swipe up" to get back to the home screen. After a hard restart, it was the more familiar intermittent freezes.
That was the last straw for me. I'd been tossing up between a Surface Book and the Pro 12.9" anyway and after sending it back, the SB2 went on discount (£500 off) so decision made. Zero regrets.
Agree with Queen6's point regarding workarounds for everything on iPadOS. It's insane, the UX gymnastics you have to perform just to copy a file from a NAS to local storage for import into, say, LumaFusion. Couple that with the restrictions on apps (Apple won't allow Torrent or even Vaping apps for example!), inability to set default browser/mail/messaging apps, no way to fill the screen on external monitors...the list goes on and on.
I had to legitimately install an old version of macOS (El Capitan) on a Mac Mini a while back and had no way to get the installer file other than from a torrent site. Just try doing that on an iPad. The steps involved are sweat-inducing.
Windows is far from perfect but at least it's powerful and allows you to do just about anything. The lack of mobile apps isn't a problem as you can just install web sites as "apps" using Edge and the versatility of the system allows you to do things such as display cable streaming apps on large TVs (e.g. Sky Go in the UK), something that isn't possible due to DRM on iPads (even though you legitimately pay for the service).
Is why we dumped Apple as their hardware was a joke and OS not far behind. Worse Apple is so very fickle that you simply can't trust it in a professional business role. Maybe Apple will update, maybe Apple won't with the latter desktop OS line being a joke and actually detrimental to the workflow of many.
I simply tired of the excuses and obvious lack of interest as did many others; 10 years ago we were all on OS X, today none as Apple has simply not honoured it's end of the deal. Nor do I doubt such professional's or companies will be eager to return to Apple for most likely more of the same...
Q-6
Apple was very clever when they developed their ecosystem, my very first experience with Apple was with an iPod (it was great) then the iPhone, which then lead onto the Mac (university and work) then an iPad to carry around university for when i didn't need my Mac. That all lead onto an iMac for when i was back home (still using my 2012 iMac), Apple Watch, which i wear from the moment i get up in a morning until i go to bed at night, i wear it for running and even in the shower. Oh and AirPods, i have really enjoyed the things.
I also like Apple Music, iCloud storage (only the 50GB which is £0.79 a month), but my overall point is that when Apple have you in the ecosystem it's difficult to get out, sometimes simply because it's just easier to stay rather than all the hassle of leaving. I can't say that i've had a lot of issues, literally been with my 2017 iPad Pro and touch disease and my AirPods Pro with them not holding a charge well and a fuzzy sound when using noise cancelation.
The thing is as well, Apple are very good at this. Never before would i of thought to pay £249 for a pair of wireless ear buds. Apple comes out with AirPods, i jump at them. It's been the same for years with iPhones, i never really needed the upgrades i just loved upgrading.
It's a perfect business model that Apple have mastered well. The thing is i don't even mind paying the money out, however when i do i expect things to be great quality and to work well, even better than other devices from competitors. Just lately (as you can tell from other posts i have made) the magic just doesn't seem to be there and i don't feel the same towards Apple as i use too. I really hope it changes and that they can prove me wrong.
I also like Apple Music, iCloud storage (only the 50GB which is £0.79 a month), but my overall point is that when Apple have you in the ecosystem it's difficult to get out, sometimes simply because it's just easier to stay rather than all the hassle of leaving. I can't say that i've had a lot of issues, literally been with my 2017 iPad Pro and touch disease and my AirPods Pro with them not holding a charge well and a fuzzy sound when using noise cancelation.
The thing is as well, Apple are very good at this. Never before would i of thought to pay £249 for a pair of wireless ear buds. Apple comes out with AirPods, i jump at them. It's been the same for years with iPhones, i never really needed the upgrades i just loved upgrading.
It's a perfect business model that Apple have mastered well. The thing is i don't even mind paying the money out, however when i do i expect things to be great quality and to work well, even better than other devices from competitors. Just lately (as you can tell from other posts i have made) the magic just doesn't seem to be there and i don't feel the same towards Apple as i use too. I really hope it changes and that they can prove me wrong.
They were. It didn't happen in a vacuum, and they deserve their success because of it. However, you aren't as trapped as you think you are.
The only thing truly "trapping" most people is the iPhone (and, as a consequence, iMessage). Once you dispose of that, the ecosystem crumbles pretty quickly, especially when you realise there are equal or better alternatives out there which work with everything.
Spotify and certainly Tidal are better music platforms and iCloud is little more than an app sync service; OneDrive, Google Drive, Dropbox etc are far superior in many ways. It shows how second-tier and disposable Apple's services really are that in the current pandemic, the only video conferencing platform not to have moved the needle is Facetime.
They are brilliant at marketing. Again, there are better sounding wireless earbuds from Sony, Sennheiser, even Samsung...but they're not "AirPods".
Well, for those of us who have been Apple customers a long time I'd argue it's because the company we loved, the one created by Steve Jobs, is gone. Tim Cook has done an astounding job for Apple - they are more successful than ever - but he has firmly moved the company into the realm of being a luxury lifestyle brand. They now make you want things because of great marketing - look at your AirPods example above.
Jobs made us want their products because they were better. But like a frontman leaving a band, it's not the same. Imagine U2 without Bono, The Eagles without Don Henley. Queen have tried to soldier on without Freddie Mercury, but it's a different animal. The company is the same but the soul has gone.
Jobs argued Apple stood between the crossroads of technology and the liberal arts. Cook has taken a different path, almost replacing the liberal arts with commerce. That's where Apple now stand - very successfully - but it's what makes so many of us ready to move on.
Something definitely feels different with Apple. I personally think there is an issue with the AirPods Pro, the noise cancellation crackles even on my replacement model, not all the while but I definitely notice it while running.
I have seen the Galaxy Buds and I have to admit the Blue ones look really nice. I’m looking into the Note as phone this year, instead of upgrading my iPhone (which I don’t need to do), but I will still keep my iPhone around for my Apple Watch, at least for the short term future. Looking forward to seeing what the Note 20 has in store.
Apple definitely need to up their game. Although I fear they won’t.
Interesting. Possible Surface Watch later this year or 2021?
www.windowscentral.com
Microsoft patents watch light sensor to track health data
Despite not making a watch right now, Microsoft patented a sensor for one.
www.windowscentral.com
IMHO, the Apple we've loved is long gone. That Apple unfortunately died with Steve Jobs. Apple just doesn't have the same magic anymore. What made Jobs one of the greatest visionaries was his keen ability to know what customers wanted before they wanted it. But more importantly, he also cared about the customer. He wouldn't try to raise prices unless he thought it was worth it, or jack up RAM prices because there might be a shortage. Apple now is all about Money and how to make more. They come out with something decent once in a while, but they still lack the polish and quality control of when Jobs was running the show. That's what separates Apple from what it is now.
Apple's success has always been tied to Jobs. When he left they were doing well for a bit, but then the innovation well ran dry and they almost went into bankruptcy. Cook is a good money guy and they've been squeezing the iphone and ipad for all it's worth. Eventually it will catch up to them like it did in the 1990's. Apple was just lucky Jobs made them technologically so far ahead of everyone else, but now we're going to see companies slowly take the pie away from them. You can't just keep raising prices and come out with the same devices to appease stock holders. It was Jobs who could get the very best out of Ive, Forstall and everyone else at Apple.
I've been harping this for a while, but Microsoft really needs something similar to Messenger and have it run on all platforms with support for SMS, MMS, RCS, voice/video calls and all the dumb emojis/animojis for the younger generations.
Apple's success has always been tied to Jobs. When he left they were doing well for a bit, but then the innovation well ran dry and they almost went into bankruptcy. Cook is a good money guy and they've been squeezing the iphone and ipad for all it's worth. Eventually it will catch up to them like it did in the 1990's. Apple was just lucky Jobs made them technologically so far ahead of everyone else, but now we're going to see companies slowly take the pie away from them. You can't just keep raising prices and come out with the same devices to appease stock holders. It was Jobs who could get the very best out of Ive, Forstall and everyone else at Apple.
I've been harping this for a while, but Microsoft really needs something similar to Messenger and have it run on all platforms with support for SMS, MMS, RCS, voice/video calls and all the dumb emojis/animojis for the younger generations.
Last edited:
Dave whats different is you not Apple
The cracks and flaws have always been there. Just on so many points Apple were given a free pass be it brand loyalty or FOMO or ECO commitment. Many rationalized out these short comings, hence the almost venomous defense by Apple Fans even over the most trivial of points and claims to bragging rights etc
It is a very hard thing to do and sit back and analyse convenience, services etc vs expenditure or value, particularly in the premium consumer market Apple targets
There are many consumer differences between typical western trends or attitudes to other parts of the world, obviously income being a primary factor. But generally western markets have been changing for decades be it food, shopping and IT or services and most notably and more recent on-line shopping and subscriptions
There is a natural tendency (Hunter Gather) to want to have a complete set of things and Apple have used this card with many new products regardless of use or performance as long as their is a discriminating factor over other similar products
I believe the accumulated mass of those that have embraced the whole list of devices, accessories and now shift to subscription based services has eroded the once easy acceptance of it's the Apple way to disregard some of the nuisances of Apple.
Shifts and changes by competition have forced Apple to adjust construct methods and design (re thinness) along with market saturation. To sustain growth, additions and further circling the walled garden has encouraged extra commitment of consumers to the Apple ECO
The now cycle of changing and upgrading your Apple products has now become a questionable practice for some and the realization of inter-dependency gains of having all your eggs in one basket has shifted from convenience to entrapment for many.
Those that are heavily embedded in the ECO now have to dismiss better products simply out of hand as Apple has prohibited cross platform integration with 1 or 2 or 3 of the products they own. To the point where a lessor accessory can be governing a major purchase, for some.
I think the other factor is also boredom people want to change goods and because of the ECO they often wait years in the hope of a new release letting many innovative products by others go by and then wonder why they waited.
There is of course a reverse commitment to breaking out and its not a bed of roses however what you do gain is a re-balance of your consumer choice, for those that want it
Dave whats different is you not Apple
The now cycle of changing and upgrading your Apple products has now become a questionable practice for some and the realization of inter-dependency gains of having all your eggs in one basket has shifted from convenience to entrapment for many.
Those that are heavily embedded in the ECO now have to dismiss better products simply out of hand as Apple has prohibited cross platform integration with 1 or 2 or 3 of the products they own. To the point where a lessor accessory can be governing a major purchase, for some.
I agree, it started for me a while back when i had issues with my iPad Pro (which is in turn why i started looking at Surface devices and then created this thread
)I suddenly saw that there is a whole different world separate from Apple. I purchased the Surface Pro (as you know) and later sold it because it was different from Apple. What i do find interesting is that i know miss having that Surface Pro 6 around, (which is typical after selling it) i think i was far to quick to turn around and go back to Apple/the safety net. Had i of stuck it out and continued to use and get use to the Surface Pro, i think it would of replaced my iPad Pro 2017 by now.
One of two things happened, Apple sent me a replacement for the faulty iPad Pro 2017 which i started using and got encompassed back in the iPad way of doing things. Then i couldn't see a value of having the Surface Pro and so i sold it.
Fast forward and i know regret not keeping it around.
Not to long ago, i got to experience the Samsung Galaxy Note 10 Plus, as soon as i held it in my hand it instantly felt far more advanced and far more futuristic than my iPhone 11 Pro Max (which i paid around the same price for). Included with the Note 10 is the S-Pen, a tool that i would use daily, i'm always taking notes (i need to for my work) and i love to draw and experiment. Now i look at my iPhone and i think "You're boring" while i love the long battery life and the camera is great, there just isn't as much that can be done with it compared to the Note 10 and Note 10 Plus.
I'm not sure if it's because i've taken a peak from behind the curtain and saw what others have been doing, but everything feels different now.
It can be difficult, I have tried several times and always went back to Apple, but I am truly done now. I keep the iPhone because it's fine for me, I don't have any allegiance to it other than the Watch which I do love for several reasons.
I am only keeping the iPad now as I broke the screen, I may replace it with a cheaper one when the time comes as a tablet is now a media consumption device for me so I will go with whatever is best for that.
I am like a kid in a candy store recently, refreshingly unlocked from Apple I can build a desktop with whatever budget I have and however I like. I have more laptops to choose from that I could ever imagine.
Windows is different, of course, it is, but not better or worse than macOS, they both have their issues and elements we all like/dislike. Still, my Mac Mini has not been on though. Windows and related devices have opened up so many possibilities I never imagined.
The Mac Mini is going on eBay as soon as the next free seller fee weekend comes up.
Last edited:
Boy, I can relate to this.
Hit yet another serious wall with the iPads this week, cut and paste does not just work anymore (from Notes app into Google blogger and in Safari.)
Neither does scrolling. Also touch disease etc. on the iDevices. Kind of ruins the experience when I cannot write on the go now either. Not surprised.Whatever possessed Sierra in the reinstall is doing all kinds of buggy garbage to my old iMac too.
The SE is fine for now because it’s a mostly work phone and IDC (I do like the smaller size).
So, yes, the iPads have pretty much become consumption devices, except for drawing.
I’ve reluctantly hung onto Apple stuff because my creativity exploded on Macs, and with the Apple Pencil; it is so much harder to justify though. You all know my comical attempts at Windows. I’ll keep trying to switch.
And now onto subject, Mr. Mobile tried a surface book 3.
Once it is listed, don't touch or even look at the damn thing
Once it's listed, it will be reset, put in the box and left
A bit off topic but I would be interested in knowing why you find the watch so good. I have not tried one and I don't receive a steady stream of emails or messages (I am retired) all day which require checking instantly and I don't need to be reminded to stand up
,but your comments would be appreciated.
A bit off topic but I would be interested in knowing why you find the watch so good. I have not tried one and I don't receive a steady stream of emails or messages (I am retired) all day which require checking instantly and I don't need to be reminded to stand up
I also have the Apple Watch, I've had both the very first and now the Series 4 version. The reason I like mine is because of fitness (I use it mainly for running) the Heart rate sensor and fitness tracking is the most accurate I have used.
Also I like the design, I think the squared off design is better than the rounded ones that are out there. I do wish Apple would add more health related features, blood pressure and sleep tracking, being the main ones.
It's also very useful to get notifications on, for example we have smart security cameras at the house, if the any of them are triggered not only do I get a notification on my iPhone but also on my Apple Watch. It's a nice feature.
About 5 years ago I had a stroke, caused by poor diet, being overweight at 225 pounds and so on. It was a minor stroke as strokes go but a warning nonetheless. The only way forward was a lifestyle change and I needed a way to track that.
I tried many devices, Fitbit was the main choice initially before eventually moving to the Apple Watch which was never my preferred option once it came out. I have tried many devices, Garmin, Samsung and so on.
Part of the issue is that I wanted something that looked good as well as being accurate if I was going to wear a device as my all day and the only timepiece then it needed to be something I wanted to wear and have utility.
Counting calories, tracking exercise and monitoring health and converting all that information into sensible, accurate results is not easy for any device, but having spent a lot of time (I won't bore you with the math) testing devices Apple gets closer than any other, that's my view.
Add to that it got ECG and fall detection, for me more than many these two go together in a really important way given my past stroke and could just be life-saving.
Further to that, I can go for a run like I did this morning with only my Airpods and Watch, no phone required, I can still take/make calls, get texts/messages and listen to music. Beneficial additional utility.
It transfers all the health data to the apps I use and with weekly weight updates, it handles all the calculations and goals incredibly well.
I don't bother with the stand goals and other elements, but I do find it useful when away from my phone to ensure I don't miss calls or important messages.
So overall it's the best device for me, not a statement or a fad, it has importance. 75 pounds lighter, staying that way and significantly healthier, as a result, I owe most of my achievements to the Watch keeping me on track and motivated.
Very inspirational story. To be able to do what you do on a run and leave the phone at home, I assume you need the LTE model watch?
Switching a desktop OS is never an easy matter and costs on multiple levels. Apple's focus is simply elsewhere with the Mac not being a priority by any means. Personally I'm mostly disappointed at the outcome and the path the Mac has taken. Apple is and will likely remain to be tremendously successful, however for some it's simply EOL as the Mac no longer presents the value, usability & flexibly it once did, rather more yet another disposable consumer product.
I also don't care for Surface's rather locked down hardware, however there's hope with recent products having replaceable M.2 SSD and the OS still remains to be open. Surface Neo is what I'm waiting to see first hand next, looking to be the culmination of many products and many solutions
Q-6
I also don't care for Surface's rather locked down hardware, however there's hope with recent products having replaceable M.2 SSD and the OS still remains to be open. Surface Neo is what I'm waiting to see first hand next, looking to be the culmination of many products and many solutions
Q-6
Apple not even on the radar these days and yes while the SB3 was a little disappointing in some respects improving on a unique form factor that is already optimal in some areas is not easySwitching a desktop OS is never an easy matter and costs on multiple levels. Apple's focus is simply elsewhere with the Mac not being a priority by any means. Personally I'm mostly disappointed at the outcome and the path the Mac has taken. Apple is and will likely remain to be tremendously successful, however for some it's simply EOL as the Mac no longer presents the value, usability & flexibly it once did, rather more yet another disposable consumer product.
I also don't care for Surface's rather locked down hardware, however there's hope with recent products having replaceable M.2 SSD and the OS still remains to be open. Surface Neo is what I'm waiting to see first hand next, looking to be the culmination of many products and many solutions
Q-6
IMO I think they could of kept the tablet portion but offered a range of base docking units as sort of semi modular approach with the tablet being the common item. They could of come up with some interesting options
from a super thick power desk top base to an ultra light battery extension to the tablet portion and several options in betweenImagine a 10cm desktop base with expansion slots etc that the tablet could dock to or a 150g sheet battery KB cover etc
The Neo as long as not Arm based is an instant buy for me as I like to explore the different form factors
Last edited:
Apparently, it was intended to be ARM-based but there has been some backtracking and it will now go with Intel Lakefield.