Surface Devices

[kazmac]

I personally don’t hate Apple at all, In fact I’ve been a fan for many years. However I have found myself very disappointed on a few occasions. But I always find myself going back to Apple, simply because I find their products better (ecosystem also plays a part).

Windows puts me off, however the Surface Pro was a pretty great device.

This would be me too. Very disappointed and annoyed with Apple’s build quality in hardware and software lately, but I still use and intend to buy Apple.

Windows is not my cup > I’ll use it for work, but some of Microsoft’s hardware is great (Surface Studio, Surface Pro).

 

[LeeW]

the only thing I found is a lot of Apple hate

No hate here, you have miss-understood the people that dominate this thread. They are people who have used Apple products for decades, not so much Fanboys/Fangirls, people who actually use macOS for real productivity who despite years of loyalty to the brand has been consistently let down over recent years.

Disappointment, not hate.

 

[Mendota]

Yes, the Surface products are worth the money. They are well made and offer some unique options for hardware. In addition, being Microsoft products, you have the advantage of excellent customer support as the hardware and software are coming from the same company. Windows is different from MacOS, but it is just as usable and more powerful in many ways. For example, there is no limit to the hardware options with Windows. I use Surface products and I have never been let down.

 

[Jason2000]

No hate here, you have miss-understood the people that dominate this thread. They are people who have used Apple products for decades, not so much Fanboys/Fangirls, people who actually use macOS for real productivity who despite years of loyalty to the brand has been consistently let down over recent years.

Disappointment, not hate.

Fair enough although I still say some of it was hate. But we can move past that. I have been an Apple user for only about 12-13 years but I am growing tired of them for some of the same reasons as people here stated. But what I really wanted and I guess I should have just address it was whether Surface devices are worth the money. Reviewers of more recent hardware tend to like them but I want real users opinions. I thought about picking up a Surface Laptop (don't care about the tablet as I have several iPads) and getting back into Windows. Seriously thinking about picking up a Pixel 5 whenever they come out and giving Android another try although giving up the Watch will be hard to do.
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Yes, the Surface products are worth the money. They are well made and offer some unique options for hardware. In addition, being Microsoft products, you have the advantage of excellent customer support as the hardware and software are coming from the same company. Windows is different from MacOS, but it is just as usable and more powerful in many ways. For example, there is no limit to the hardware options with Windows. I use Surface products and I have never been let down.

Thanks for the input.

 

[kazmac]

Fair enough although I still say some of it was hate. But we can move past that. I have been an Apple user for only about 12-13 years but I am growing tired of them for some of the same reasons as people here stated. But what I really wanted and I guess I should have just address it was whether Surface devices are worth the money. Reviewers of more recent hardware tend to like them but I want real users opinions. I thought about picking up a Surface Laptop (don't care about the tablet as I have several iPads) and getting back into Windows. Seriously thinking about picking up a Pixel 5 whenever they come out and giving Android another try although giving up the Watch will be hard to do.
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Thanks for the input.

Surface Laptops are excellent. I loved the SL2, but it wasn't enough power for my productivity. I've heard SL3s are more fragile and have some build quality issues, but like any OEM now, that is to be expected.

 

[SteveJUAE]

I have read many many pages on this post hoping to come to a conclusion about Surface devices as I have never used or owned one but the only thing I found is a lot of Apple hate. Are the Surface devices worth the money ? Thinking of getting a Surface Laptop. I looked at the Samsung Flex and it looks nice but can not get over the screen being 1080. I guess I am used to the retina screens on the MacBooks that when I look at a device with 1080 it looks so blurry to me.

Your right this has become a little bit of a niche forum of MS supporters me included but make no mistake many of us have owned many Apple products

You pose several questions and points

All premium devices cost similar prices after all they are mainly the same components however both MS and Apple carry some levy over other brands and are less value for money on face value

Surface value only kicks in if it means you can drop some intermediate device like an Ipad and want a complete solution in one device while maintaining a full OS

Screens are very up and down I have the current best AMOLED screen in my 15 Razer that puts retina to shame yet the same panel is used by other OEMs not so well.

Samsung screens are among the best in the world with QLED so unless you have physically seen the flex in action do not be too dismissive from paper specs is my advice

The surface screens generally are excellent for productivity work especially the Surface Book range

There are many reasons to break out of the Apple ECO and most seem trapped by trivial conveniences that are easily replaced or even a watch

You need to be like Dave and have a compelling reason to make the jump else stay with Apple

 

[Dave245]

My advice would be to give it a try, but don’t make the mistake I did with the Surface Pro 7, which is to get scared with Windows give in and sell it. I regret that decision and think I should of kept my Surface Pro 6 and stuck it out.

when the Duo comes available here in the U.K I will get one, i will also be waiting to see what Microsoft announce with the Surface Pro 8 and Surface Pro X gen 2. Even tho I’m an Apple fan (not as much as I use to be) the Microsoft event from October is one of my favourite events in a long time.

 

[canesalato]

Your right this has become a little bit of a niche forum of MS supporters me included but make no mistake many of us have owned many Apple products

Yeah, and many of us still own apple devices, especially iPhones.

You pose several questions and points

All premium devices cost similar prices after all they are mainly the same components however both MS and Apple carry some levy over other brands and are less value for money on face value

Surface value only kicks in if it means you can drop some intermediate device like an Ipad and want a complete solution in one device while maintaining a full OS

The surface screens generally are excellent for productivity work especially the Surface Book range

Agree.
I would also add: the Surface Pro has a higher pixel density than any MacBook (and on par with that of the iPad Pro). The screen is great in terms of resolution and has a good brightness. It's a bit too reflective and backlight bleeding is an issue when watching dark images at night with lights off, at least on my unit. On this, your mileage may vary. Because the form factor is quite unique, I would say it's well worth the money. SSD space upgrades, however, are overpriced. Recently redesigned products, like the Surface Pro X and the Surface laptop 3 have replaceable storage, which is really great. Hopefully the Surface pro 8 will follow, so that one can just get the base model and replace the 128gb ssd with a 512 one for a good price.

 

[Dave245]

Yeah, and many of us still own apple devices, especially iPhones.


Agree.
I would also add: the Surface Pro has a higher pixel density than any MacBook (and on par with that of the iPad Pro). The screen is great in terms of resolution and has a good brightness. It's a bit too reflective and backlight bleeding is an issue when watching dark images at night with lights off, at least on my unit. On this, your mileage may vary. Because the form factor is quite unique, I would say it's well worth the money. SSD space upgrades, however, are overpriced. Recently redesigned products, like the Surface Pro X and the Surface laptop 3 have replaceable storage, which is really great. Hopefully the Surface pro 8 will follow, so that one can just get the base model and replace the 128gb ssd with a 512 one for a good price.

I’m hoping that the Surface Pro 8 has a similar design to the Pro X. Thinner bezels and the new Slim Pen. I think that would be great.

 

[canesalato]

I’m hoping that the Surface Pro 8 has a similar design to the Pro X. Thinner bezels and the new Slim Pen. I think that would be great.

Indeed, the Pro X has thin bezels, (therefore) a larger screen, better speakers, a space to store the pen and an easy to replace ssd. A Surface Pro 8 with this form factor would be incredibly close to be my dream machine. Add to that a larger trackpad (they have the space to increase the size...and they should) and...we'd have something insanely great. If they don't do this, they are crazy. ;-)

 

[Dave245]

Indeed, the Pro X has thin bezels, (therefore) a larger screen, better speakers, a space to store the pen and an easy to replace ssd. A Surface Pro 8 with this form factor would be incredibly close to be my dream machine. Add to that a larger trackpad (they have the space to increase the size...and they should) and...we'd have something insanely great. If they don't do this, they are crazy. ;-)

Yea it would be great! The only reason I can think of for them not doing it, the Surface Pro X. Microsoft may want to keep the two devices separate. It is time the Pro got a redesign tho.

 

[canesalato]

Yea it would be great! The only reason I can think of for them not doing it, the Surface Pro X. Microsoft may want to keep the two devices separate. It is time the Pro got a redesign tho.

Uhm...indeed this is possible and would be a big mistake, in my opinion.
For the foreseeable future, the Pro X will be a niche device (and Surface devices are already niche devices, albeit profitable and solid): it's relatively slow and, what's worse, it cannot run many important applications. It's far from the Surface Pro original promise: a tablet that is so good that it can also be your laptop. A powerful laptop that also works well as a tablet.

The Pro X, on the other hand, has some great features that will keep making it unique and separate from the regular Pro line: it's super thin, it runs cool with no fan, it supports LTE and has a great battery life, while being always on, thanks to its ARM processor. I think these features (plus new one in newer models) would be enough to keep it different and interesting for a niche of people who can live with its limitations. It's the sexy experimental device for rich hipsters and executives.

The Pro X is just not there for most people. It might be the future, but it's not the present and it's far from being the present...I would say at least a couple of years away, if they work hard on the software side. And we never know...intel might catch up...or AMD. For this reason, crippling the regular Pro to "push" the X, to me, doesn't make sense. They have built some momentum and they should not waste it. This is the moment to be aggressive, ambitious and compete. The choice is between making a niche become a mainstream success, or crippling it for the sake of the niche of a niche...

 

[Dave245]

Seems like Surface Duo will be available soon

 

[meddow]

Seems like Surface Duo will be available soon

View attachment 938531

cant wait to try somthing different in the phone space!

 

[thejadedmonkey]

cant wait to try somthing different in the phone space!

Fool me thrice, shame on me. I'd love to see the Duo succeed, but I'm going to wait a while to get one. I've been through enough heartbreak with WP7, WP8, and WM10. The iPhone 12 will be "good enough".

 

[Dave245]

Fool me thrice, shame on me. I'd love to see the Duo succeed, but I'm going to wait a while to get one. I've been through enough heartbreak with WP7, WP8, and WM10. The iPhone 12 will be "good enough".

I have the iPhone 11 Pro Max, it’s a great phone and with iOS 14 (widgets and so on) it will become even better. However the iPhone 12 doesn’t seem like it will offer much more than my current Pro Max.

I would love to try something new, Duo or the Note 20. I will still keep my iPhone but I also want to try something new.

 

[derekamoss]

Well took my Surface Book 2 for the first time on a trip. Very enjoyable, didn't get to test out the battery life to much since I have an AC adapter for the cigarette lighter to keep it charged. What was very beneficial and hadn't used in a LONG time was my At&T personal Hotspot, so I could watch Netflix on the road. Even did a windows update on the road which was flawless. Never even hooked up to the hotel WIFI, but if I had to, at least I had a VPN. Perfect relaxing vacation if it wasn't for my stepfather's funeral. He wasn't able to beat his battle with cancer, but on the brighter side, he never really got sick or lost cognitive functions. Hell, he was outside mowing two days before he passed so we feel blessed for that. Wouldn't have traveled for anything other than that right now. Took all and probably extra precautions and I could see the hotel was doing the same. Wouldn't even open the front entrance unless you were wearing a mask. It's weird looking forward to a funeral because you aren't able to have one for closure since he passed a month ago... Hope everyone else is safe!

 

[canesalato]

Well took my Surface Book 2 for the first time on a trip. Very enjoyable, didn't get to test out the battery life to much since I have an AC adapter for the cigarette lighter to keep it charged. What was very beneficial and hadn't used in a LONG time was my At&T personal Hotspot, so I could watch Netflix on the road. Even did a windows update on the road which was flawless. Never even hooked up to the hotel WIFI, but if I had to, at least I had a VPN. Perfect relaxing vacation if it wasn't for my stepfather's funeral. He wasn't able to beat his battle with cancer, but on the brighter side, he never really got sick or lost cognitive functions. Hell, he was outside mowing two days before he passed so we feel blessed for that. Wouldn't have traveled for anything other than that right now. Took all and probably extra precautions and I could see the hotel was doing the same. Wouldn't even open the front entrance unless you were wearing a mask. It's weird looking forward to a funeral because you aren't able to have one for closure since he passed a month ago... Hope everyone else is safe!

First of all, I am really sorry for your loss. And I am glad his last days were peaceful. Also, I really do appreciate the human touch you add when describing your experiences with your devices and how they fit into your everyday life.

It used to be relatively safe where I live (a Japanese island in the subtropics). Unfortunately, due to the massive US military presence here, the virus has finally reached us after months with no cases. From today I am locked down too...we have more than one million people here and 20 ICUs, so better be careful. Oh boy.

Now, I am especially grateful for my Surface. I can go to the forest or at some remote beach while still being able to get some work done from there. All the software I need to run works properly, and fast enough. Even though it's not perfect, in this context it's just a fantastic little swiss knife. Something I had been dreaming for years, when I was using iPads.

 

[derekamoss]

First of all, I am really sorry for your loss. And I am glad his last days were peaceful. Also, I really do appreciate the human touch you add when describing your experiences with your devices and how they fit into your everyday life.

It used to be relatively safe where I live (a Japanese island in the subtropics). Unfortunately, due to the massive US military presence here, the virus has finally reached us after months with no cases. From today I am locked down too...we have more than one million people here and 20 ICUs, so better be careful. Oh boy.

Now, I am especially grateful for my Surface. I can go to the forest or at some remote beach while still being able to get some work done from there. All the software I need to run works properly, and fast enough. Even though it's not perfect, in this context it's just a fantastic little swiss knife. Something I had been dreaming for years, when I was using iPads.

I feel for you on how having a US Military Base near can be frustrating at times. I was in the Navy stationed in the US and when we would hit ports, I honestly felt bad for the parent country because I know how ignorant and stupid military can be overseas and sometimes very uncompassionate so I can safely say I am sorry. Glad to hear you went this long staying away from covid and sorry to hear it's at your doorstep now, I imagine it's scary since it's new for you. Here is my advice and it has worked for me and my family and the news doesn't quite give the best advice IMO. Obviously wear masks. At the least a home made one but I would highly suggest getting a few 3m n95 masks even if it's a little expensive because it is what the CDC uses and filters so much out and they aren't uncomfortable. I can also buy n99 masks which are better but more expensive but search for reusable n99 masks because you can buy one and wash it. Also don't just one time use the n95 masks. Use one and when done leave it in the sun for a few days for the virus to die and in the mean time use another n95 mask and just repeat. I honestly use mine multiple days in a row and if you take them off correctly on the sides that protrude you should be fine.

Now here is the extra the news doesn't convey. A mask alone is pointless. You can just as easy get it through your eyes. Most glasses should be ok but I went online and bought three 3m safety glasses that are clear plastic and enclose your eyes and they are anti fog. They cost about 5 dollars each but you can sanitize them after each use since they are durable plastic and they are pretty comfortable. Lastly latex or plastic gloves, even dish washing yellow gloves. Wear those and sanitize when done. These are the requirements for a lvl 3 biohazard lab which covid would be in. Deadly airborne viruses and Ebola with a high mortality rate are lvl 4 and there are only 4 places in the world who can handle it. Other then that it's just like using an antivirus on a PC. Just use common sense. Social distancing is great but if the people around you cough and you walk through where they did it without both mask and glasses then you have just as much chance if they coughed on you and you weren't wearing a mask. With all these procautions since Feb I have gone to the store probably twice a week, picked up food and had delivered and did curbside at stores and have been fine so it's possible. Sorry for the rant and am glad you are enjoying your Surface. Having one really does remind me of the excitement from back in the day of having a Mac, pre iPhone era.

 

[canesalato]

I feel for you on how having a US Military Base near can be frustrating at times. I was in the Navy stationed in the US and when we would hit ports, I honestly felt bad for the parent country because I know how ignorant and stupid military can be overseas and sometimes very uncompassionate so I can safely say I am sorry. Glad to hear you went this long staying away from covid and sorry to hear it's at your doorstep now, I imagine it's scary since it's new for you. Here is my advice and it has worked for me and my family and the news doesn't quite give the best advice IMO. Obviously wear masks. At the least a home made one but I would highly suggest getting a few 3m n95 masks even if it's a little expensive because it is what the CDC uses and filters so much out and they aren't uncomfortable. I can also buy n99 masks which are better but more expensive but search for reusable n99 masks because you can buy one and wash it. Also don't just one time use the n95 masks. Use one and when done leave it in the sun for a few days for the virus to die and in the mean time use another n95 mask and just repeat. I honestly use mine multiple days in a row and if you take them off correctly on the sides that protrude you should be fine.

Now here is the extra the news doesn't convey. A mask alone is pointless. You can just as easy get it through your eyes. Most glasses should be ok but I went online and bought three 3m safety glasses that are clear plastic and enclose your eyes and they are anti fog. They cost about 5 dollars each but you can sanitize them after each use since they are durable plastic and they are pretty comfortable. Lastly latex or plastic gloves, even dish washing yellow gloves. Wear those and sanitize when done. These are the requirements for a lvl 3 biohazard lab which covid would be in. Deadly airborne viruses and Ebola with a high mortality rate are lvl 4 and there are only 4 places in the world who can handle it. Other then that it's just like using an antivirus on a PC. Just use common sense. Social distancing is great but if the people around you cough and you walk through where they did it without both mask and glasses then you have just as much chance if they coughed on you and you weren't wearing a mask. With all these procautions since Feb I have gone to the store probably twice a week, picked up food and had delivered and did curbside at stores and have been fine so it's possible. Sorry for the rant and am glad you are enjoying your Surface. Having one really does remind me of the excitement from back in the day of having a Mac, pre iPhone era.

Please don't call it rant or apologize. I am really thankful that you took the time to write this. Thank you for all your advice! I will treasure everything you said and do my best to stay safe. Luckily I work in a biology lab, so I have easy access to all kinds of PPE, plus autoclave and UV for sterilization. I agree with what you wrote and also use the n95 mask and protective glasses myself. Finally, I am sure that even back in the day you were the opposite of stupid, ignorant, and uncompassionate, so I think you have nothing to apologize for, quite the opposite. =)

 

[derekamoss]

Please don't call it rant or apologize. I am really thankful that you took the time to write this. Thank you for all your advice! I will treasure everything you said and do my best to stay safe. Luckily I work in a biology lab, so I have easy access to all kinds of PPE, plus autoclave and UV for sterilization. I agree with what you wrote and also use the n95 mask and protective glasses myself. Finally, I am sure that even back in the day you were the opposite of stupid, ignorant, and uncompassionate, so I think you have nothing to apologize for, quite the opposite. =)

Glad that you have access to all the PPE. Working in a Bio lab and being more scientifically minded I am sure you are better equipped as well to handle the situation than most. You will be in my thoughts!

 

[xraydoc]

So the battery (the main battery in the keyboard base) in my i7 Surface Book 2 is starting to significantly diminish in capacity. I’m currently getting only about 3-4 hours at reasonable screen brightness in “recommended” power mode and maybe 5 hours (haven’t timed it in that mode) in power-saver mode with a lower screen brightness. Interestingly, the smaller battery in the screen itself seems to be close to normal capacity (about 1.5 hrs run time)

Computer itself isn’t running hot and there’s no weird runaway apps/threads. All software & firmware is up to date. dGPU isn’t in use. Just degrading battery. The machine is exactly two years old. Didn’t happen over night, but noticing it much more now that I’m doing more work from home... pretty much need to be tethered to the AC adapter.

Kind of a bummer, but the machine does have some miles on it. Will hold off on replacing it for a while, since it’ll be some time before business travel resumes (thanks COVID). May not replace it with an SB3. Might look at a more conventional laptop this time like a Dell XPS 13” since I have an 11” iPad Pro that handles my Pen (Pencil) input needs.

 

[canesalato]

So the battery (the main battery in the keyboard base) in my i7 Surface Book 2 is starting to significantly diminish in capacity. I’m currently getting only about 3-4 hours at reasonable screen brightness in “recommended” power mode and maybe 5 hours (haven’t timed it in that mode) in power-saver mode with a lower screen brightness. Interestingly, the smaller battery in the screen itself seems to be close to normal capacity (about 1.5 hrs run time)

Computer itself isn’t running hot and there’s no weird runaway apps/threads. All software & firmware is up to date. dGPU isn’t in use. Just degrading battery. The machine is exactly two years old. Didn’t happen over night, but noticing it much more now that I’m doing more work from home... pretty much need to be tethered to the AC adapter.

Kind of a bummer, but the machine does have some miles on it. Will hold off on replacing it for a while, since it’ll be some time before business travel resumes (thanks COVID). May not replace it with an SB3. Might look at a more conventional laptop this time like a Dell XPS 13” since I have an 11” iPad Pro that handles my Pen (Pencil) input needs.

Can I suggest you to try throttlestop? By using it, you can quickly and very easily disable turbo boost. If you are not doing heavy work, the performance will still be ok. I have found that this can significantly extends my SP7 battery life.
The long-term battery life will also be longer, as essentially the computer runs at cooler temperatures.
It's a tradeoff between performance and battery life and you can switch between on and off with one click.

 

[xraydoc]

Can I suggest you to try throttlestop? By using it, you can quickly and very easily disable turbo boost. If you are not doing heavy work, the performance will still be ok. I have found that this can significantly extends my SP7 battery life.
The long-term battery life will also be longer, as essentially the computer runs at cooler temperatures.
It's a tradeoff between performance and battery life and you can switch between on and off with one click.

View attachment 940392

Will give it a try. Isn’t that essentially what the battery saver mode on Windows does, or no?

 

[Mendota]

So the battery (the main battery in the keyboard base) in my i7 Surface Book 2 is starting to significantly diminish in capacity. I’m currently getting only about 3-4 hours at reasonable screen brightness in “recommended” power mode and maybe 5 hours (haven’t timed it in that mode) in power-saver mode with a lower screen brightness. Interestingly, the smaller battery in the screen itself seems to be close to normal capacity (about 1.5 hrs run time)

Computer itself isn’t running hot and there’s no weird runaway apps/threads. All software & firmware is up to date. dGPU isn’t in use. Just degrading battery. The machine is exactly two years old. Didn’t happen over night, but noticing it much more now that I’m doing more work from home... pretty much need to be tethered to the AC adapter.

Kind of a bummer, but the machine does have some miles on it. Will hold off on replacing it for a while, since it’ll be some time before business travel resumes (thanks COVID). May not replace it with an SB3. Might look at a more conventional laptop this time like a Dell XPS 13” since I have an 11” iPad Pro that handles my Pen (Pencil) input needs.

Check with Microsoft. They might be willing to send you a new base or replace the computer.