Surface Devices

[Rainbow Apple]

It's all a bit easier to do now with Windows 11 as there is native support for android

ie just install the Amazon AppStore from the Microsoft Store and its all done for you

Only if you want to sideload more APK's as the Amazon Store is not as comprehensive do you need to load a few more bits and make sure the developers setting is on in the settings for windows subsystem for android

How to Use and Sideload Android Apps in Windows 11

All Windows Insider builds can run Android apps.

www.tomshardware.com

I got that working a few days ago. While that lets Windoes run some Android apps, it does not turn Windoes into Android! It's just Windoes, a desktop system, with Android apps. A big step in the right direction, but Windoes is not yet a proper tablet system, and I like having a proper tablet system when useing my computer as a tablet. Not to metion, there's no Google app store.

 

[SteveJUAE]

I got that working a few days ago. While that lets Windoes run some Android apps, it does not turn Windoes into Android! It's just Windoes, a desktop system, with Android apps. A big step in the right direction, but Windoes is not yet a proper tablet system, and I like having a proper tablet system when useing my computer as a tablet. Not to metion, there's no Google app store.

Sure its not going to turn your Win 11 device in to say a Tab S8

But yet again it demonstrates the flexibility of these devices to accommodate many scenarios and the opportunity to save buying overlapping devices etc

 

[Rainbow Apple]

Sure its not going to turn your Win 11 device in to say a Tab S8

But yet again it demonstrates the flexibility of these devices to accommodate many scenarios and the opportunity to save buying overlapping devices etc

Let's distinguish beteen the device itself, and the oparing system running on the device:

One thing I like about the Surface (at least, the Intel-bassed Surface) is it's flexibility. Namely, that you can install other opating systems onto it! That means it will get securty updates forever, because even when it gets too old to get Windoes securty updates, you can install Linux. It also means you can install Android onto it, you can turn this Windoes device into a proper Android device.

 

[lepidotós]

Typing this on a Surface Laptop 3 15" i7 (try saying that three times, fast) running Fedora 37 for now until I swap out to probably PCLinuxOS. It's been an interesting experience so far. I want so desperately to like it, because I like a lot of things about it -- a 15", 3:2 display, 200ppi resolution, the keyboard feels pretty nice, and it's technically the fastest computer I've ever owned. Plus, it's nice and light and really easy to take everywhere, set down and use at a restaurant patio table. But so many things make me not like it, either. Fairly few ports, pretty paltry 7h battery life for very light tasks (it's the same in Windows, too), and just having an Xfce desktop and Firefox with six tabs open got it warm enough to kick on the fan. S0ix sleep rather than s3 means worse battery life when sleeping and the potential for it to just wake up and burn out, on top of not having support in e.g. OpenBSD. Plus, just it being amd64 in general and Intel in specific. If I wasn't looking to dual boot with a Hackintosh, I'd have looked for an SL4 AMD. I ultimately voted that I am a fan, but really only barely more a fan than not.​

 

[derekamoss]

Well, finally bit the bullet and bought me a Surface Laptop Studio i5 16gb 256gb. So far, I am enjoying it quite a bit. Coming from a Surface Book 2 and a Surface Pro 7. It was on sale for $200 dollars off and I had a $350 gift card, so I got it at a fairly decent price. First couple of impressions are:

1. The display is gorgeous! 120hz is awesome as well. Dolby Vision is also great.
2. The speakers on this thing are a beast. Super loud with Dolby Atmos with two tweeters and two subwoofers.
3. I thought nothing would be better than the Surface Book 2 keyboard, but I was wrong.
4. Battery life seems great so far, but I haven't been able to test it out fully.
5. Writing on this with a Slim Pen 2 feels so much nicer than before. The haptic feedback and 120hz screen really improve the writing on the screen.
6. Adjusting the display position is smooth and the hinge feels sturdy.
7. Having Windows 11 OOB makes it feel so much better than using a Surface Image with Windows 10 and upgrading it to 11 or using Windows 11 iso and letting Windows Update take care of the drivers. I mean ALOT better.
8. Being able to upgrade the SSD after purchase is amazing, especially since I am losing out on having a SD Card expansion.
9. Thunderbolt 4!!! Bought the one with only integrated GPU so the possibility of being able to use an external GPU is awesome. Never have gamed on the PC to much and have an Xbox Series S for that, but still the possibility...
10. The trackpad feels amazing, and the haptic feedback feels great. Not as big of a deal since the trackpads on my previous Surfaces were great as well.

Hopefully, I won't run into any unpleasant surprises but then again, that's what Microsoft Complete Warranty is for. (BTW, it now comes with three accidental damage claims instead of two and that's for already purchased extended warranties, so check yours on your Microsoft Account Page. Also, they now offer up to four years extended warranty instead of just two like before.)

 

[The_Interloper]

Well, finally bit the bullet and bought me a Surface Laptop Studio i5 16gb 256gb. So far, I am enjoying it quite a bit. Coming from a Surface Book 2 and a Surface Pro 7. It was on sale for $200 dollars off and I had a $350 gift card, so I got it at a fairly decent price. First couple of impressions are:

1. The display is gorgeous! 120hz is awesome as well. Dolby Vision is also great.
2. The speakers on this thing are a beast. Super loud with Dolby Atmos with two tweeters and two subwoofers.
3. I thought nothing would be better than the Surface Book 2 keyboard, but I was wrong.
4. Battery life seems great so far, but I haven't been able to test it out fully.
5. Writing on this with a Slim Pen 2 feels so much nicer than before. The haptic feedback and 120hz screen really improve the writing on the screen.
6. Adjusting the display position is smooth and the hinge feels sturdy.
7. Having Windows 11 OOB makes it feel so much better than using a Surface Image with Windows 10 and upgrading it to 11 or using Windows 11 iso and letting Windows Update take care of the drivers. I mean ALOT better.
8. Being able to upgrade the SSD after purchase is amazing, especially since I am losing out on having a SD Card expansion.
9. Thunderbolt 4!!! Bought the one with only integrated GPU so the possibility of being able to use an external GPU is awesome. Never have gamed on the PC to much and have an Xbox Series S for that, but still the possibility...
10. The trackpad feels amazing, and the haptic feedback feels great. Not as big of a deal since the trackpads on my previous Surfaces were great as well.

Hopefully, I won't run into any unpleasant surprises but then again, that's what Microsoft Complete Warranty is for. (BTW, it now comes with three accidental damage claims instead of two and that's for already purchased extended warranties, so check yours on your Microsoft Account Page. Also, they now offer up to four years extended warranty instead of just two like before.)

Congrats on your purchase! That is an absolutely awesome device – I used to have a Surface Book 2 and still regret selling it. I was initially annoyed that Microsoft ditched the "completely detachable screen" form factor, but the Laptop Studio is a worthy successor (I recently checked one out in a store and was seriously impressed).

I also just bought a Surface Pro X and Surface Duo. Despite their imperfections, I love the form factors Microsoft offer.

 

[derekamoss]

Congrats on your purchase! That is an absolutely awesome device – I used to have a Surface Book 2 and still regret selling it. I was initially annoyed that Microsoft ditched the "completely detachable screen" form factor, but the Laptop Studio is a worthy successor (I recently checked one out in a store and was seriously impressed).

I also just bought a Surface Pro X and Surface Duo. Despite their imperfections, I love the form factors Microsoft offer.

I had a Surface Pro 4 and basically used it in tablet mode most of the time. I bought a Surface Book2 just because I wanted a bigger screen tablet. At first, I figured I would use it detached and plugged into the Screen itself most of the time but ended up just flipping it backwards attached mostly but over time I found myself doing that less and less and just using it in laptop mode and folding it to tablet just for leisurely browsing, movies etc... That's why I had no problem losing the detachable screen. It's a bit heavier but nothing unmanageable. It's a lot easier switching it into a tablet than having to detach the screen, flip it around re attach and then fold it down. I had also bought a Slim Pen 2 a while ago after my new pup decided my old Surface Pen was a chew toy and while it worked great with the SB2, it's so much better with the SLS. The 120hz screen makes any lag go completely away. I was skeptical on how the haptic feedback would help with writing, but it does actually help even if it is only a placebo. The whole screen is just a major upgrade. Having an upgradable SSD is a huge relief when it came to choosing a model to buy and having 16gb Ram even though I won't need it really is good to have just in case. Still haven't found any downsides to it. I'm sure when the SLS 2 comes out I will be like ugh.... I want one, but as I said getting this for $500 dollars off relieves that LoL. Although a lot of that went to the 4 year MS Complete insurance.

 

[groove-agent]

I admire the surface tablets because it shows that you can have an all-in-one form factor with one OS despite what Apple says. My only issue is I find the Surface tablets super glossy.

I love my iPad, but it can't run any of my pro applications. So how can you have a an iPad Pro that can't run pro apps?

My dream is for Apple to merge all the OSes into one. However, Apple would prefer you have an iPhone, iPad, and a laptop/ desktop - as many devices as they can sell you.

 

[Dave245]

I admire the surface tablets because it shows that you can have an all-in-one form factor with one OS despite what Apple says. My only issue is I find the Surface tablets super glossy.

I love my iPad, but it can't run any of my pro applications. So how can you have a an iPad Pro that can't run pro apps?

My dream is for Apple to merge all the OSes into one. However, Apple would prefer you have an iPhone, iPad, and a laptop/ desktop - as many devices as they can sell you.

I have to disagree with the first part. After using a few Surfaces now, they are terrible tablets but good at being a PC. The iPad is a much better tablet, but the Surface is a better PC (apart from the Mac) in my opinion.

 

[paardenkapper]

My former employer bought several used Surface Pro 3 which needed battery service, one even had a shattered screen.
I really tried my best to remove the displays unscathed but almost all needed a new display afterwards.

Really hope they made the newer models a bit more serviceable but working on these really made me rethink on Apple products and their repair capabilities.

 

[SteveJUAE]

I have to disagree with the first part. After using a few Surfaces now, they are terrible tablets but good at being a PC. The iPad is a much better tablet, but the Surface is a better PC (apart from the Mac) in my opinion.

I have to disagree your noting interface preferences opposed to capability

The Ipad is a stunted device compared to the Surfaces have far more functionality and pro apps even than the Mac

 

[LeeW]

they are terrible tablets but good at being a PC.

I wouldn't say they were terrible tablets, average at best. For what the majority would use a tablet for it is fine. We all know it's always been a trade-off;

Surface - Average tablet, great laptop/desktop functionality. A complete all-rounder.
iPad - Best in-class tablet, poor laptop/desktop functionality. Just use it as a table, it's what Apple wants.

 

[Rainbow Apple]

Surface - Average tablet, great laptop/desktop functionality. A complete all-rounder.

I've found that under Windows, the Surface is a poor tablet (that's why I have both Windows and Android installed on mine). But maybe you know something I don't: How do you get a Surface to be an average tablet under Windows?

 

[LeeW]

How do you get a Surface to be an average tablet under Windows?

A tablet for the majority is about browsing, watching, and playing. Does the Surface cover that in a portable hand-held device? Yes. What more do you need to know? As I noted, it is an all-rounder. Not perfect in every aspect but does everything the majority need. If you have more specific needs then it comes down to what is best for you.

If you draw direct comparisons between iPadOS and Android when looking at the Surface then sure, there are clear differences. The former are tablets front and center, neither are trying to be anything else (well the iPad is and failing).

 

[maflynn]

I've found that under Windows, the Surface is a poor tablet (that's why I have both Windows and Android installed on mine). But maybe you know something I don't: How do you get a Surface to be an average tablet under Windows?

MY take on the surface as a tablet is that the iPad provide a much better tablet experience. Granted, its been several years since I owned a Surface Pro, but I found when I owned one, the idea of running desktop apps was its main feature. I used it more like a laptop then a tablet. Using it as a pure tablet wasn't the best UX imo.

 

[Rainbow Apple]

A tablet for the majority is about browsing, watching, and playing. Does the Surface cover that in a portable hand-held device? Yes.

Yes, but poorly. The close button at the top right is too easy to tap by mistake, especially when carrying the tablet. It uses non-standard finger-gestures, not the same finger-gestures as iOS and Android. It lacks the navigation buttons that Android has (granted, iOS lacks that too). It doesn't have a tablet-style launcher. In short: Windows 11 on a tablet in a clunky mess.

It wouldn't' take many changes to make Windows into a proper tablet operating system, without giving up what makes it a proper desktop system. But Microsoft refuses to make those changes. That's why I use Windows when using my Surface as a laptop, and Android when using it as a tablet.

 

[LeeW]

Yes, but poorly.

You asked me how I get a Surface to be an average tablet under Windows. You are getting into opinions/preferences on UI which is different from capability. That is fine, most are going to rate the iPadOS/Android UI way above the Surface in terms of it being a tablet which is expected, as its primary purpose is to be a tablet, nothing more.

Those that choose the Surface are not buying it to be a tablet in the main. They want more than a tablet but it's still a portable device so will still want to utilize it as if it were a tablet. So a compromise is required. That is why Apple wants you to buy a Mac and an iPad, no compromise.

The only difference between me watching something from Netflix on a surface vs iPad is how I get there. Once I am there it's a film or documentary, the same watching experience. The same applies to browsing, Apps, and so on.

 

[dmr727]

The only difference between me watching something from Netflix on a surface vs iPad is how I get there. Once I am there it's a film or documentary, the same watching experience. The same applies to browsing, Apps, and so on.

Yeah, I always told myself I'd be okay with a less than great tablet experience when content consumption is the primary use for that configuration. My biggest problem with Surface devices is the same as what many have already mentioned - if I'm going to pay a premium price, I don't want last gen tech. I don't need MS to update as fast as Dell, but their cadence is a little too leisurely for my taste.

 

[SteveJUAE]

You asked me how I get a Surface to be an average tablet under Windows. You are getting into opinions/preferences on UI which is different from capability. That is fine, most are going to rate the iPadOS/Android UI way above the Surface in terms of it being a tablet which is expected, as its primary purpose is to be a tablet, nothing more.

Those that choose the Surface are not buying it to be a tablet in the main. They want more than a tablet but it's still a portable device so will still want to utilize it as if it were a tablet. So a compromise is required. That is why Apple wants you to buy a Mac and an iPad, no compromise.

The only difference between me watching something from Netflix on a surface vs iPad is how I get there. Once I am there it's a film or documentary, the same watching experience. The same applies to browsing, Apps, and so on.

We should clarify the PadOS/Android UI way above the Surface in terms of it being a tablet when only using your digits

It not compulsory to interact this way and the UI with Surface is greatly enhance by using a pen at times and not just your digits

Its the same thing we hear time and time again with touch screen laptops/2 in 1's you can use a pen to avoid screen smudges for those that think this is an issue

 

[LeeW]

^^ And on that point of UI in general. Has anyone tried to use a mouse with the iPad? The mouse pointer in iPadOS seems like Apple's way of saying we are not giving you a pointer that actually makes sense. You will have a circle, you will like it as a circle or not at all and it will not be usable for finer work. Don't like it? Get a Mac..

 

[SteveJUAE]

^^ And on that point of UI in general. Has anyone tried to use a mouse with the iPad? The mouse pointer in iPadOS seems like Apple's way of saying we are not giving you a pointer that actually makes sense. You will have a circle, you will like it as a circle or not at all and it will not be usable for finer work. Don't like it? Get a Mac..

Yep I literally LOL when I 1st observed it, it looks like a karaoke prompt bouncing along the words with the music

Maybe get a pencil more than get a Mac

 

[Queen6]

We should clarify the PadOS/Android UI way above the Surface in terms of it being a tablet when only using your digits

It not compulsory to interact this way and the UI with Surface is greatly enhance by using a pen at times and not just your digits

Its the same thing we hear time and time again with touch screen laptops/2 in 1's you can use a pen to avoid screen smudges for those that think this is an issue

Bottom line is Surface and other similar Windows tablet formfactor devices can run full desktop apps on a desktop OS. Still have full touch screen & pen support offering far more versatility. iPad is deliberately limited by Apple to force market segregation.

The downside with the Windows based tablets they are more complex by nature to navigate. For me if iPad was the better device I'd own one. I dont as they are too inflexible as the focus of the devices line-up is consumption, not productivity...

Q-6

 

[LeeW]

I have an iPad as its best-in-class as a tablet. I have tried using it as a laptop replacement. Not even a full replacement but just to be able to do most of what I do on the laptop when I am on the move. Just doesn't work well enough.

£1,700 for the base 12.9 iPad with the magic keyboard and pencil vs £1,063 for the Surface Pro 9 i5 with keyboard and pencil. One just doesn't make sense if you want to do more.

 

[Queen6]

I have an iPad as its best-in-class as a tablet. I have tried using it as a laptop replacement. Not even a full replacement but just to be able to do most of what I do on the laptop when I am on the move. Just doesn't work well enough.

£1,700 for the base 12.9 iPad with the magic keyboard and pencil vs £1,063 for the Surface Pro 9 i5 with keyboard and pencil. One just doesn't make sense if you want to do more.

Daughters college opted for Apple, cost me more for her iPad, Apple keyboard & pencil and weighed more than my M1 MBP. Pencil died, we bought a local Pencil for literally 10% of Apple's cost.

My daughter has been invited exhibit in Hong Kong as she's a talented digital artist. She say's there is zero difference, what a rip off Apple has become.

UK prices are just insane, cant imagine living there again. Need to live not just survive...

Q-6

 

[kitenski]

£1,063 for the Surface Pro 9 i5 with keyboard and pencil. One just doesn't make sense if you want to do more.

Where do you see that pricing?