Surface Devices

[KarmaRocket]

I was hoping they would somehow manage to put an RTX in the base. Or wait until later this year and see what Nvidia's Ampere will offer (or even AMD). They are still decent specs, but I plan on keeping it for 3 years or more. RTX would have kept me happy. Even if the CPU wasn't that great.

Wishful thinking would have been Ryzen 4900HS and RTX/Ampere. Maybe in the next update 2-3 years from now.

 

[Queen6]

I was hoping they would somehow manage to put an RTX in the base. Or wait until later this year and see what Nvidia's Ampere will offer (or even AMD). They are still decent specs, but I plan on keeping it for 3 years or more. RTX would have kept me happy. Even if the CPU wasn't that great.


Wishful thinking would have been Ryzen 4900HS and RTX/Ampere. Maybe in the next update 2-3 years from now.

Quadro is more appropriate for the target audience with SB-3, and MS is unlikely to spoil it's relationship with Intel given the history.

Q-6

 

[kazmac]

Youch...very pricey just like Apple. Unlike Apple though, MS and Best Buy will put these on sale soon enough.

Some nice specs.

 

[Dave245]

Quadro is more appropriate for the target audience with SB-3, and MS is unlikely to spoil it's relationship with Intel given the history.

Q-6

Apple seem to be switching to ARM as if next year, I think that will be interesting. If they can control the chip set, they can also introduce regular updates!

The Surface Book 3 will be interesting, I’m looking forward to seeing what they announce. How will they announce it tho? will there be a couple of videos online with Panos talking/presenting or will they announce it via marketing videos (similar to Apple with the new iPad Pro).

I’m keeping a close eye on both companies at the moment.

 

[Queen6]

Apple seem to be switching to ARM as if next year, I think that will be interesting. If they can control the chip set, they can also introduce regular updates!

The Surface Book 3 will be interesting, I’m looking forward to seeing what they announce. How will they announce it tho? will there be a couple of videos online with Panos talking/presenting or will they announce it via marketing videos (similar to Apple with the new iPad Pro).

I’m keeping a close eye on both companies at the moment.

I don't blame Apple for wanting switch away from Intel at all, personally I'm considering AMD next cycle. Intel was lazy and to some extents sloppy resulting in multiple vulnerabilities.

Q-6

 

[Dave245]

I don't blame Apple for wanting switch away from Intel at all, personally I'm considering AMD next cycle. Intel was lazy and to some extents sloppy resulting in multiple vulnerabilities.

Q-6

Yea maybe Apple are starting to rectify their issues? I’m hoping so.

 

[LeeW]

Apple seem to be switching to ARM as if next year

I would caveat that. Apple is not switching to ARM in totality, they are going to bring out some ARM devices alongside the regular line to tempt people and start getting software providers to start thinking more about the future.

No way they will just switch everything to ARM, that is a long way off.

 

[Falhófnir]

I don't blame Apple for wanting switch away from Intel at all, personally I'm considering AMD next cycle. Intel was lazy and to some extents sloppy resulting in multiple vulnerabilities.

Q-6

Think Apple's design principles don't mesh well with the reality of the product Intel is offering any longer - and unfortunately it's the customer who is paying the price for the disparity. If the end result of a switch is a computer that offers the power they want, the thermals they want, and the quiet operation they want, then more power to them on that.

 

[Dave245]

I would caveat that. Apple is not switching to ARM in totality, they are going to bring out some ARM devices alongside the regular line to tempt people and start getting software providers to start thinking more about the future.

No way they will just switch everything to ARM, that is a long way off.

I would like to see Apple get back to what they use to be. Now a days Apple doesn’t seem to care about quality like they use to, for example the buggy software that was IOS 13, the keyboard on the Macbooks, bending iPad Pro’s, problems with AirPods Pro software. Yes there were issues years back, even under Steve Jobs there was the iPhone 4 antenna issue, however it just seems more and more just lately.

Also Apple seems to be making more and more products, they seems to also offer a lot more variations than they did a few years back (1 version of the iPhone and iPad). I’m not saying they should remove choice, I think the choice is definitely better under Tim Cook, I don’t even think Tim is a bad CEO, I just think Apple should pay more attention.

a redesigned iMac (which looks like it may be coming) and keep the quality the best in the industry like it use to be along with the best customer service.

 

[grmlin]

I said this somewhere else already, I hope not here

If Apple transitions to an ARM based MacBook lineup, and their efforts porting ARM apps from iOS to MacOS using catalyst are any indication of what to expect, than the system is genuinely f****. Sorry for the wording, but that's what I think.
Catalyst apps are in such a sad state, I find it quite hard to believe, that this is a released feature.

Microsoft had years to make the transition. It all started with Windows 8 and the first ARM based Surface Tablet RT. We bought one of these in the office to make apps for it. It failed, but look what we have now. An ARM based Surface that actually works. (It even emulates win32 software, right?)

I have a hard time believing, that Apple pulls that off. If they don't announce a totally new operating system, I don't see what would convince me to play pre alpha tester.


A good example is all the excitement for XCode on iOS. Who would want to use an iPad as a development platform? It can't even drive external monitors at it's native resolution. In don't know, maybe I'm too negative, but for me it feels as if Apple is in the position that Microsoft was during Windows Vista times...

 

[LeeW]

In don't know, maybe I'm too negative, but for me it feels as if Apple is in the position that Microsoft was during Windows Vista times...

Agreed, this is why I know they are not going all-in with this right away. We will see a Macbook Air style device up first, that will be cheaper than your normal Air to get people buying, then a cheaper MBP and a cheaper iMac. This will be all in an effort to get people buying ARM devices across the product range, not your complex buyer, the home user that has fewer requirements than others.

Once it works fine for them and they have people singing about it (assuming they get it right) other will convert and in time Intel machines will start to disappear, talking years for that to happen though.

For me, I would be happy with ARM, as an opensource developer it will be fine providing they get it right, am I confident they can get it right? Well, in the last few years they have got so much wrong, so why would I think a massive change like this will be any different?

Not even cautiously optimistic, just cautious.

 

[xraydoc]

I said this somewhere else already, I hope not here

If Apple transitions to an ARM based MacBook lineup, and their efforts porting ARM apps from iOS to MacOS using catalyst are any indication of what to expect, than the system is genuinely f****. Sorry for the wording, but that's what I think.
Catalyst apps are in such a sad state, I find it quite hard to believe, that this is a released feature.

Microsoft had years to make the transition. It all started with Windows 8 and the first ARM based Surface Tablet RT. We bought one of these in the office to make apps for it. It failed, but look what we have now. An ARM based Surface that actually works. (It even emulates win32 software, right?)

I have a hard time believing, that Apple pulls that off. If they don't announce a totally new operating system, I don't see what would convince me to play pre alpha tester.


A good example is all the excitement for XCode on iOS. Who would want to use an iPad as a development platform? It can't even drive external monitors at it's native resolution. In don't know, maybe I'm too negative, but for me it feels as if Apple is in the position that Microsoft was during Windows Vista times...

Apple’s had a lot of experience changing platforms. The PowerPC Macs ran 68000 code until developers were able to recompile their apps. The Intel Macs ran PowerPC code until developers were able to recompile their apps. The first OS X Macs could run OS 9 apps until developers recoded their apps.

I fully expect Apple won’t release an ARM-based Mac until they’re certain they can get it running most current x86 apps to bide time until developers recompile their apps.

I think the first ARM Macs might be a MacBook Air or variant — a place where maximum speed isn’t required but super long battery life and instant startup would be welcomed.

 

[LeeW]

Apple’s had a lot of experience changing platforms. The PowerPC Macs ran 68000 code until developers were able to recompile their apps. The Intel Macs ran PowerPC code until developers were able to recompile their apps. The first OS X Macs could run OS 9 apps until developers recoded their apps.

They have a lot of experience designing hardware, but their past abilities and behaviours really don't represent the present.

 

[grmlin]

Apple’s had a lot of experience changing platforms. The PowerPC Macs ran 68000 code until developers were able to recompile their apps. The Intel Macs ran PowerPC code until developers were able to recompile their apps. The first OS X Macs could run OS 9 apps until developers recoded their apps.

I fully expect Apple won’t release an ARM-based Mac until they’re certain they can get it running most current x86 apps to bide time until developers recompile their apps.

I think the first ARM Macs might be a MacBook Air or variant — a place where maximum speed isn’t required but super long battery life and instant startup would be welcomed.

I really hope that’s true. But looking at the decline of software quality and all the problems with their Mac hardware, I’m very pessimistic

 

[Queen6]

They have a lot of experience designing hardware, but their past abilities and behaviours really don't represent the present.

I really hope that’s true. But looking at the decline of software quality and all the problems with their Mac hardware, I’m very pessimistic

IMO the Mac and the desktop OS in it's current form is simply not a priority for Apple, hence all the issues. As Apple moves to ARM based Mac's things may change, equally the path is pretty clear at this point in time...

Apple wants to design and market IOS type devices with associated services, that's been evident for years with Tim Cook on record as stating the future of computing is the iPad. Apple could easily bring a competent MBP to market, equally they choose not too? Maybe next cycle or maybe not, personally I gave up waiting years ago...

Q-6

 

[Dave245]

Apple wants to design and market IOS type devices with associated services, that's been evident for years with Tim Cook on record as stating the future of computing is the iPad. Apple could easily bring a competent MBP to market, equally they choose not too? Maybe next cycle or maybe not, personally I gave up waiting years ago...

Q-6

Didn't they bring a competent MBP with the 16” people seem to like it. The new keyboard gets good reviews, much better then the old one anyways.

a lot of people are locked into Apple and I think that’s the problem, otherwise people would of jumped a while ago.
Myself included, at the moment I’m thinking of trying a Note phone (currently waiting for the next update), but at the same time I think I will keep my iPhone 11 Pro Max as a back up, and if I want to go back to it. Also I have an Apple Watch which are the best smart watches, unfortunately they only work with an iPhone!

 

[LeeW]

Didn't they bring a competent MBP with the 16” people seem to like it. The new keyboard gets good reviews, much better then the old one anyways.

Yeah, serious issues with audio popping and display ghosting issues. The new keyboard is great though..

 

[grmlin]

And a bug/hardware issue when you connect the 16” to external monitors. It is has lots of issues afaik.

 

[Queen6]

Didn't they bring a competent MBP with the 16” people seem to like it. The new keyboard gets good reviews, much better then the old one anyways.

a lot of people are locked into Apple and I think that’s the problem, otherwise people would of jumped a while ago.
Myself included, at the moment I’m thinking of trying a Note phone (currently waiting for the next update), but at the same time I think I will keep my iPhone 11 Pro Max as a back up, and if I want to go back to it. Also I have an Apple Watch which are the best smart watches, unfortunately they only work with an iPhone!

No not IMO, still too problematic TOTL notebook that has issues with ghosting and overheats with external displays Apple's just talk, especially given the marketing strategy for the 16". Said for a long time I don't need Apple's excuses, better to use other hardware that doesn't present such issues in the first place.

Best thing I did was break the cycle as now I can pick and choose the hardware & software for my needs, not have to deal with a single source that may or may not deliver who only wants to entrap me ever deeper...

FWIW was once 100% Apple, equally those days are long gone.

Q-6

 

[maflynn]

They have a lot of experience designing hardware, but their past abilities and behaviours really don't represent the present.

People still emulate their design language - they still make some really beautiful machines.

Didn't they bring a competent MBP with the 16” people seem to like it. The new keyboard gets good reviews, much better then the old one anyways.

I think the 16" MBP is the pinnacle of the 2016 model line, but its hard to overcome the unaddressed design flaws. Adding the T2 chip has meant 4 years of kernel panics. a display panel choice that is inferior and causes ghosting, the thinness and choosing a less aggressive cooling philosophy means driving an external monitor causes some issues

As for the software side, I think they dug themselves into a whole and each year macOS has less new features announced but that new release seems less stable then the prior one. Catalina seems to be quite a problem for many people

I really can't see myself coming back to the MBP fold in all honesty, I won't say I'll never will but the competition has surpassed Apple in many ways.

 

[LeeW]

they still make some really beautiful machines.

Well, I guess if people value design over reliability and usability you might be on to something.

 

[maflynn]

Well, I guess if people value design over reliability and usability you might be on to something.

Well, back in the day Apple was known for reliability and I will say MBPs still are highly usable, though the Touchbar does detract from its useability - at least for me.

My thought is that back in the day Apple was huge in the education market and that generated a whole segment of apple users. Fast forward to today, and while apple is no longer in schools [purchased units by the school system], they have captured the hearts and minds of students. Go into any Apple store during late summer and you see Suzy student with mom and dad looking at the MBPs. I don't think that will change any time soon, so lack of reliability may not over come Apple's coolness reputation.

 

[Queen6]

Well, I guess if people value design over reliability and usability you might be on to something.

Apple's been stripping the usability & versatility of the Mac for years, resulting in little more than another throwaway appliance. The intrinsic value the Mac once represented is all but gone, with Apple far too wrapped up in it's own corporate hubris. Best thing Apple sells today is Apple and the Mac way down the list of priorities...

Q-6

 

[LeeW]

I will say MBPs still are highly usable

Oh, completely agree with that, I may be using Windows more but I cannot completely let go, no matter how hard I try. To be fair I don't want to for some things.

Go into any Apple store during late summer and you see Suzy student with mom and dad looking at the MBPs. I don't think that will change any time soon, so lack of reliability may not over come Apple's coolness reputation.

Indeed, and I have said this so often on this forum. What you see on Macrumors and any Mac-related forum is a very small representation of the overall customer base.

So when something goes wrong like the keyboard issues, screen ghosting, Bluetooth issues and whatever. the vast majority are actually happy with what they have.

I know many that are still bashing that butterfly keyboard daily since 2017, eating over it and generally not taking too much 'care' and have had zero issues with it. Never known anyone with a bending iPad. And so on.

Not trying to gloss over the issues or suggest they are insignificant in any way, but in the outside world, Apple users, using whatever devices they have, are happy enough.

If I did not come to this forum, I would have a far more positive view of Apple devices given I have had very little issues myself in recent years (1 dodgy keyboard on a MBP and Bluetooth issues with the Mac Mini). So it stands to reason most Apple users that don't focus on these things as we all do, they will have a positive view generally.

 

[Dave245]

Yeah, serious issues with audio popping and display ghosting issues. The new keyboard is great though..

I didn't buy one, i brought the 2019 13" MacBook Pro that was updated. So far it's not been a bad machine, no issues anyway.

I'm looking forward to seeing what the Surface Book 3 brings to the table, hopefully they can wow us.