Surface Devices

[Dave245]

Even at the discounted price, an i7 and 16GB ram but only 256GB SSD at £1,799, honestly that is just outrageous.

Yea, it's forcing me to jump up just to get the extra storage. At least Apple lets me add the extra storage without having to get the extra Ram and so on.
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Even at the discounted price, an i7 and 16GB ram but only 256GB SSD at £1,799, honestly that is just outrageous.

Also the processor is only Quad Core, the MacBook Pro 16" is 6 or 8 core.

 

[grmlin]

If the device runs cool and quiet the CPU choice makes sense. If it’s as loud and hot as a MacBook I would be pretty disappointed

 

[Dave245]

If the device runs cool and quiet the CPU choice makes sense. If it’s as loud and hot as a MacBook I would be pretty disappointed

I'm going to wait for reviews before deciding what to do. Book 3 doesn't come out until June in the U.K anyway.

I'm also looking to see what Apple do with the iMac, Jon Prosser says the iMac is ready to ship. It's probably going to be just a spec bump again, but we will see.

 

[LeeW]

I will be really disappointed if Apple just do a spec bump on the iMac, it has been crying out for attention on the design front for so long now.

 

[grmlin]

I can already here the outcry if they don’t redesign the iMac lol.
not much they can do about it with a spec bump anyway. Killing HHDs would be a good start

 

[Dave245]

I will be really disappointed if Apple just do a spec bump on the iMac, it has been crying out for attention on the design front for so long now.

i agree, it’s what I’ve been wanting for a while. Even if it’s just a reduction in the bezels and chin. I think we will see it at WWDC, especially if it’s a redesign.

 

[maflynn]

Killing HHDs would be a good start

Using a 5400 rpm drive in 2020 is inexcusable, but then its coming from a company that is charging 700 dollars for wheels and 1,000 for a monitor stand that doesn't even swivel.

 

[Dave245]

So if the Surface Book 3 is Quad Core, but the iPad Pro is an 8 Core processor and 8 core GPU. Does that mean the iPad Pro is faster? I’m not very good when it comes to specs like that.

 

[c0ppo]

So if the Surface Book 3 is Quad Core, but the iPad Pro is an 8 Core processor and 8 core GPU. Does that mean the iPad Pro is faster? I’m not very good when it comes to specs like that.

More cores is usually better, but it doesn't mean it is faster. And iPad uses and ARM CPU and an 'mobile' OS.
Surface Book 3 uses 'real desktop' OS.

Just on the OS side, it's a huge difference. iPad is a better tablet. But for example, I can't use iPad as a work machine. At all. Literally impossible for me. But I can use SB3 as a tablet if I wanted to, and as a work device.

 

[grmlin]

That's two different platforms, ARM and i86, that can't be compared by looking at specs. They also run on different operating systems.

I personally think, that the Apple ARM chips are fantastic. But they don't have deal with the same load as a CPU in a PC running MacOS/Windows/Linux. iOS is heavily optimized for one app at a time, maybe two if you use "multitasking".

So I would wait for a MacBook running MacOS on ARM and not jump to any conclusions.

 

[maflynn]

So if the Surface Book 3 is Quad Core, but the iPad Pro is an 8 Core processor and 8 core GPU. Does that mean the iPad Pro is faster? I’m not very good when it comes to specs like that.

I think its an apples and oranges comparison, given the architecture of ARM vs. Intel and tablet vs. laptop.

 

[Dave245]

I think its an apples and oranges comparison, given the architecture of ARM vs. Intel and tablet vs. laptop.

Ok, I just wondered if that was maybe the reason why the iPad Pro costs as much. Also they say that the iPad Pro is faster than 90% of all PCs, I just wasn’t sure if they also meant Surface devices because they don’t give any examples or call out any brands.

 

[maflynn]

Also they say that the iPad Pro is faster than 90% of all PCs

I know, and I have some problems understanding and/or believing that claim. The problem as I see it is that iOs is not a highly multithreaded/mulitprocessor environment allowing high volumes of apps to be running at the same time. At best you can have three apps, and only a few people run two apps. So the OS is designed and optimized for such an operation where as macOS and windows is geared for a muli-windowed environment.

I guess we'll find out how good Apple's ARM chips are when they roll out an ARM based laptop. I'm not saying that Apple's ARM is slower, just that claiming its faster on the iPad then a laptop is misleading given the differences that were noted.

 

[Queen6]

Surface Go 2 first look

Nice upgrade on the top tier model of the Go 2, but nowhere near enough to tempt me to switch away from my UMPC 2in1 with 8th Gen i7 (just released 10th Gen i7)

Q-6

 

[Falhófnir]

I was thinking the 13.5" with 512 SSD, 32GB Ram will probably be a bit overkill for me, however the 256 SSD isn't enough for my needs. My iPad Pro is 512GB and i only have about 50GB of that free. With discount that would top out at £2,204.10 OR there is the 15" also with 32GB ram and 512 SSD, that would cost £2,429.10, so for an extra £225 i can jump from the 13.5" to the 15" Surface Book 3.


The Maxed out 15" would cost £2,609.10 with 1TB SSD, 32GB ram
The maxed out 13" would cost £2,429. 10, again that would be with 1TB SSD, 32GB Ram


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Yeah feel like the SSD capacities at the low end are the real pain point - My 15" MBP that cost £1,599 back in 2015 came with 256GB, and that being quite tight is the only real problem I've had with it, so I think anything less than 512 for north of £2,000 is very harsh pricing. As far as I can see they've not added the replaceable SSDs to these like the Surface Laptop and Surface Pro got? That would certainly make the lower tier models a more interesting prospect, even if the SSDs they use are quite difficult to source. I guess at the end of the day though they're really nice machines if you don't mind parting with the cash!

 

[Queen6]

Ok, I just wondered if that was maybe the reason why the iPad Pro costs as much. Also they say that the iPad Pro is faster than 90% of all PCs, I just wasn’t sure if they also meant Surface devices because they don’t give any examples or call out any brands.

I know, and I have some problems understanding and/or believing that claim. The problem as I see it is that iOs is not a highly multithreaded/mulitprocessor environment allowing high volumes of apps to be running at the same time. At best you can have three apps, and only a few people run two apps. So the OS is designed and optimized for such an operation where as macOS and windows is geared for a muli-windowed environment.

I guess we'll find out how good Apple's ARM chips are when they roll out an ARM based laptop. I'm not saying that Apple's ARM is slower, just that claiming its faster on the iPad then a laptop is misleading given the differences that were noted.

Just Apple sales and marketing, simple as that. My UMPC above exceeds more than 4GHz, equally implying that it's faster than the majority of other notebooks would be disingenuous at best, then again this is in the context of Apple...

If the IPP's SOC was so truly capable it would already be in new Mac's today, it's not. Likely ARM is coming to the Mac, equally with a pared down OS.

Q-6

 

[SteveJUAE]

Ok, I just wondered if that was maybe the reason why the iPad Pro costs as much. Also they say that the iPad Pro is faster than 90% of all PCs, I just wasn’t sure if they also meant Surface devices because they don’t give any examples or call out any brands.

Yes Apple metrics on that claim is a bit odd, something to do with how many instructions it can process, but as others have noted due to the limits of IOS it can't be loaded up, so reality is its spinning it's nuts off in neutral

Think you have seen my usual jibe on this "Fastest dumb thing out there"

Sure Apple needs to find away to use this capability then we can see how it fares

 

[maflynn]

my UMPC 2in1 with 8th Gen i7 (just released 10th Gen i7)

Which model do you have?

 

[Queen6]

Yes Apple metrics on that claim is a bit odd, something to do with how many instructions it can process, but as others have noted due to the limits of IOS it can't be loaded up, so reality is its spiny it's nuts off in neutral

Think you have seen my usual jibe on this "Fastest dumb thing out there"

Sure Apple needs to find away to use this capabilty then we can see how it fares

Apple claims that the 16" MBP can run four displays with 4096‑by‑2304 resolution, likely it can as long as you don't actually expect do anything with the computer. Once Apple used to under promise and over deliver, today it's on the verge of blatantly lying.

I'll believe the IPP claims when it's tested on the same platform as what it's purporting to be so much faster than. While IPP remains on a limited mobile OS, it also remains to be predominantly a consumption device for the vast majority.

Apple want to sell as many devices and services as it possibly can locking the consumer in as much as possible. That I don't need nor want and will opt for a Surface product or other premium 2in1 any day...

Q-6

 

[Dave245]

I'll believe the IPP claims when it's tested on the same platform as what it's purporting to be so much faster than. While IPP remains on a limited mobile OS, it also remains to be predominantly a consumption device for the vast majority.

Apple want to sell as many devices and services as it possibly can locking the consumer in as much as possible. That I don't need nor want and will opt for a Surface product or other premium 2in1 any day...

Q-6

My issue with the iPad Pro isn’t that it’s a consumption or productivity device, it’s gotten a lot better over the years (you can even edit videos in LumaFusion) my issue is the quality on both hardware (bendgate and 2018 onwards iPad Pro’s are too thin) and software (random crashes, freezes and so on).

I don’t mind paying a premium for a quality device, ive been doing it over the years with Apple products when they have actually had quality. Another I have is that they don’t seem focused on things like the iMac (my favourite all in one) and pushing things forward.

 

[Queen6]

Which model do you have?

One-Netbook 's OneMix 3s Platinum - Intel i7 8500Y, 16Gb RAM, 512 Micro SSD, expanded to 1TB via microSD, 8.4" 2K display, full Pen & touch support, 360 Yoga style, reasonable port solution, build quality is top notch. The OneMix is a premium product, and feels like one, just the feel in the hand and the 360 hinge alignment alone speaks volumes. Keyboard although oddly placed due to space constraint puts any modern Mac to shame and is backlit.

New 10th Gen i7 10510Y quad core is just released, basically the same with upgraded processor. Doubt would be faster in real world use for my needs. I did have a chance to briefly try the new 10th Gen model, which performed as I expected.

8th Gen https://www.1netbook.com/onemix-3pt/
10th Gen https://www.1netbook.com/onemix-3pro-pt/

UMPC's are very niche machines, equally the OneMix beautifully put together and very fluid for a Y series system. To put things into perspective it's a full PC with the footprint of a 8" Android tablet, with the power & flexibility of a full desktop OS.

This simply leaves any Android or Apple mobile OS device dead in the water, with real world performance that equates to 8th Gen i3/i5 depending on the use.

Q-6
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My issue with the iPad Pro isn’t that it’s a consumption or productivity device, it’s gotten a lot better over the years (you can even edit videos in LumaFusion) my issue is the quality on both hardware (bendgate and 2018 onwards iPad Pro’s are too thin) and software (random crashes, freezes and so on).

I don’t mind paying a premium for a quality device, ive been doing it over the years with Apple products when they have actually had quality. Another I have is that they don’t seem focused on things like the iMac (my favourite all in one) and pushing things forward.

Just not for me I've been through iPads & Android tablets and they are all too limiting, nor remotely interested in paying a premium only to hear excuses from the manufacturer.

What Apple is today and what Apple was in the past is a very different animal. I far rather prefer to put my $$$$ into companies that care and strive to produce the best product they can for the customer.

Above all Apple now produces products that serve Apple first and foremost, simple as that. Once 100% Apple, today I retain a few older MBP's for personal use, the rest out the door...

Q-6

 

[Dave245]

Just not for me I've been through iPads & Android tablets and they are all too limiting, nor remotely interested in paying a premium only to hear excuses from the manufacturer.

What Apple is today and what Apple was in the past is a very different animal. I far rather prefer to put my $$$$ into companies that care and strive to produce the best product they can for the customer.

Above all Apple now produces products that serve Apple first and foremost, simple as that. Once 100% Apple, today I retain a few older MBP's for personal use, the rest out the door...

Q-6

i do think Apple has changed over the years, they are not what they were under Steve Jobs. I do often wonder if that’s why Johnny Ive has left.

for many years all I have known are Apple products, my first Mac was a 2011 MacBook Pro for university, followed by the late 2012 iMac, iPad 3 (followed by the Air 2, then iPad Pro 1st gen and 2nd gen), iPhones, Apple TV, Apple Watch, AirPods, Homepod and a massive iTunes library of TV shows and movies and now Apple Music. Thats me deep in the Apple ecosystem, I want to break out of it.

The Surface Book 3 is a very interesting device, for sure it can do more than my iPad Pro 2017, it’s a full on computer, studio and tablet when needed. I‘m very intrigued by it and I’m eagerly waiting the reviews. However I don’t want the same situation to happen like it did when i brought the Surface Pro 6, months later I end up selling it. I want to make sure 100% that this device is for me, this time around.

 

[Queen6]

i do think Apple has changed over the years, they are not what they were under Steve Jobs. I do often wonder if that’s why Johnny Ive has left.

for many years all I have known are Apple products, my first Mac was a 2011 MacBook Pro for university, followed by the late 2012 iMac, iPad 3 (followed by the Air 2, then iPad Pro 1st gen and 2nd gen), iPhones, Apple TV, Apple Watch, AirPods, Homepod and a massive iTunes library of TV shows and movies and now Apple Music. Thats me deep in the Apple ecosystem, I want to break out of it.

The Surface Book 3 is a very interesting device, for sure it can do more than my iPad Pro 2017, it’s a full on computer, studio and tablet when needed. I‘m very intrigued by it and I’m eagerly waiting the reviews. However I don’t want the same situation to happen like it did when i brought the Surface Pro 6, months later I end up selling it. I want to make sure 100% that this device is for me, this time around.

TBH I decided to "cut the chord". I was simply sick and tired of Apple's pathetic excuses of why it "cant" lengthy intervals for new hardware that turned out be mostly irrelevant at higher cost, remaining to be under performant. Dull, lazy and uninspiring mostly focused on saving Apple production cost. Forcing additional cost to the end users with higher needs. Add in piss poor design, questionable reliability, buggy SW, hubris & hypocrisy way beyond the norm...

I've said it before and will likely say it again; 10 years ago we were all on Mac's, 5 years ago dealing with aging hardware, today zero, none, not one are on the platform as it has proved to be unreliable, underpowered and run by greedy untrustworthy individuals. Franky it's not our loss, by any means...

If we state to a client that we will deliver we do exactly that and then some. Not BS them with unachievable, unrealistic metrics then blame others for our failure. I say to all the guy's if you want to blame some one, you only need to look in the mirror, as do I myself...

The Mac is a weak contender thx to Apple being solely focused on IOS devices, services and above all else profitability, once it was something truly different. Producing the best you possibly can means exactly that, and Apple falls way short of the mark IMO by a wide margin...

Thing is once you break the circle you begin to realise that there's a whole new world that doesn't demand a "Walled Garden" offering freedom of choice for the informed...

Q-6

 

[Mendota]

One-Netbook 's OneMix 3s Platinum - Intel i7 8500Y, 16Gb RAM, 512 Micro SSD, expanded to 1TB via microSD, 8.4" 2K display, full Pen & touch support, 360 Yoga style, reasonable port solution, build quality is top notch. The OneMix is a premium product, and feels like one, just the feel in the hand and the 360 hinge alignment alone speaks volumes. Keyboard although oddly placed due to space constraint puts any modern Mac to shame and is backlit.

New 10th Gen i7 10510Y quad core is just released, basically the same with upgraded processor. Doubt would be faster in real world use for my needs. I did have a chance to briefly try the new 10th Gen model, which performed as I expected.

8th Gen https://www.1netbook.com/onemix-3pt/
10th Gen https://www.1netbook.com/onemix-3pro-pt/

UMPC's are very niche machines, equally the OneMix beautifully put together and very fluid for a Y series system. To put things into perspective it's a full PC with the footprint of a 8" Android tablet, with the power & flexibility of a full desktop OS.

View attachment 912971
This simply leaves any Android or Apple mobile OS device dead in the water, with real world performance that equates to 8th Gen i3/i5 depending on the use.

Q-6
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Just not for me I've been through iPads & Android tablets and they are all too limiting, nor remotely interested in paying a premium only to hear excuses from the manufacturer.

What Apple is today and what Apple was in the past is a very different animal. I far rather prefer to put my $$$$ into companies that care and strive to produce the best product they can for the customer.

Above all Apple now produces products that serve Apple first and foremost, simple as that. Once 100% Apple, today I retain a few older MBP's for personal use, the rest out the door...

Q-6

Hello Queen. I have been away with family business. I am happy to see you and all my other collogues here at MacRumors doing well. How has your business going. Have you been affected by Covid 19?
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i do think Apple has changed over the years, they are not what they were under Steve Jobs. I do often wonder if that’s why Johnny Ive has left.

for many years all I have known are Apple products, my first Mac was a 2011 MacBook Pro for university, followed by the late 2012 iMac, iPad 3 (followed by the Air 2, then iPad Pro 1st gen and 2nd gen), iPhones, Apple TV, Apple Watch, AirPods, Homepod and a massive iTunes library of TV shows and movies and now Apple Music. Thats me deep in the Apple ecosystem, I want to break out of it.

The Surface Book 3 is a very interesting device, for sure it can do more than my iPad Pro 2017, it’s a full on computer, studio and tablet when needed. I‘m very intrigued by it and I’m eagerly waiting the reviews. However I don’t want the same situation to happen like it did when i brought the Surface Pro 6, months later I end up selling it. I want to make sure 100% that this device is for me, this time around.

I have already ordered mine! I bought the first and it is still going strong. No issues. I have been waiting for the Surface book 3. The new Samsung looks really nice (so blue), but it is just an ultrabook, and it's pretty face will not give me the performance I need. The new Quadro chips are just what I hoped for.

 

[Mendota]

The lack of an easy-yet-very robust drawing app like Procreate is what holds me back from the Surface line. Though at this point, I am almost ready to go Wacom tablet (and that would probably mean Affinity, Corel or photoshop (again)): all are huge learning curves for me, which I cannot commit to now.

Frankly, if I did not want to draw digitally and need a better graphics card for the above to run properly, I would be quite happy with a Surface laptop, or the current Surface Book 2. I need more graphics power though and hope the SB3 has one RTX option. 🙁

I am sorry I went with the Lenovo Yoga, as it wasn’t cheaper than a Surface Laptop 3. Windows ink is terrible on the Yoga too.

I would love an iMac that has a better bang for the buck too. I wish Apple would give a fig about their hardware and software. I just do not understand how they can release software that cripples their hardware (Bricked, touch irresponsiveness etc.). Honestly though, given the disposability of Macs and PCs now, I hope to find something under $1800 that will work for me.

There are all kinds of drawing apps for Windows that are far more powerful and feature rich than Procreate. For Corel look for Painter Essentials. It has a lot of power, but scaled down and less intensive and power hungry. There is also Art Rage, Rebelle, Medibang, Black Ink, Kirta, and many others. The new Surface Book 3 has the Quadro graphics and that is the one I have ordered.