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I think they should implement this into the iPad lineup instead of the iPhone. iPhone X form factor with Touch ID. Game over.
 
So what's the big difference between pressing and swiping? Your finger has to be on the right spot of the screen to do either correct?

So if you don't have to look on the bottom bar to use your X, why do you think you have to look on the bottom of the screen to use the finger print sensor? Your logic is flawed and that makes no sense. Is either you agree to both that you don't have to look or you agree to both that you have to look.

I wasn't debating if Apple is bringing back touch ID.

However just like when Face ID was announced before the X was released, many was defending Apple that people should wait to use it before making judgement. Now the tables are flipped and you're already assuming and saying FaceID will be better without even using touch ID under the glass. Why not wait to use it before making judgement.

(general statement below not aimed at you)
The hypocrisy is strong in this thread. Many defenders of Face ID before the X was released argued with others that they haven't even used it so they can't claim Face ID is not as good as touch ID.

Now the tables are flipped and these same people are passing judgement on something they haven't used.

When Apple does it they defend and defend. Once another manufacturer does it, they discredit it without using it.

No, you can swipe anywhere on the bottom of the screen, which you feel. No specific area. I would think you would have to look because there would be nothing to indicate that your finger is in the right spot. I am just going by realities here, not hypotheticals. Apple just released their vision of the iPhone for at least the next 3 years, which heavily features Face ID. There is zero chance of them going back to Face ID. I would absolutely give it a shot if implemented, but it's irrelevant. I have no issue with another manufacturer doing it, I use iOS and Face ID is their current authentication method there, which works great, and will only improve.
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A phone could have haptic feedback when your finger was over the right spot.

That's possible, still gotta find that spot. Either way, likely not an iOS feature in the future.
 
Only downside of Face ID it seems is the angles and speed, which will obviously be improved upon next year. For everything else, its a better solution. I love it for authenticating apps and passwords.

Half a thought here. I can't prove this made a difference, but subjectively it seems to have improved things. A couple of days ago I rescanned in moderate light with the arm all the way out at arm's length. My face looked pretty small in the scanning circle (I wear 36" sleeves). I think the phone is more tolerant of what I used to think were off-angles...IOW, I think I'm getting hits when I used to get misses. Give it a shot if you held the phone closer. It is very fast to do the scan, and it didn't break anything I had already set up to work with FaceID.
[doublepost=1513178236][/doublepost]Question as a follow-up: can you comment on why TouchID works so well through a freezer-weight plastic bag? I'd be interested in any technical explanations or comments - thank you.

Back when people thought Apple was doing an in-display fingerprint sensor, it was thought from their patents that it might be image based as well.



An RF signal from the sensor ring passes through your fingertip and is measured by a tiny antenna array in the center part. This gives a 3D image of the fingerprint's ridges, valleys and pores.

Which is why a 3D copy works as well. It's also why a wet finger fails, as that provides a short cicuit signal path across the finger surface instead of having to pass internally.



Synaptics' device includes its own encryption and secure processor.



No, that was a fan myth.



Their security white papers talk generically about looking for temperature, pulse, flexing, etc, but do not give info about the actual methods used in this sensor, other than claiming that they use an AI based scheme which rejects 99% of spoof attempts.

This claim will be tested quickly, no doubt!

--
I was an early supporter of FaceId, and it's still a good method. However, its sensors takes up frontal space.

So I can easily see under-screen print sensors being popular on phones where the front is used for a notchless display.
 

So if you consider an unsubstantiated rumor to be a proper citation, what about a properly cited article from the same source completely refuting it?

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/10/31/apple-dismisses-touch-id-under-display-rumors/
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I just thought about how nice Face ID is going to be in a Mac. Opening that laptop, Face ID was born for that.

Anyone using an Apple Watch to unlock their Mac is already living with this feature.
 
You're just making excuses, so the notch is great, right?

You're looking at it backwards--the notch isn't great, but the 'ears' that allow more of the screen to be utilized are indeed great. The alternative would be to have more bezel and less screen. As the screen is 'taller' than a 16:9 ratio, the notch doesn't affect video or anything else in any meaningful way.

So many people choose to look at this like Apple took screen real estate away rather than considering that they actually reclaimed some screen space that had been taken by the bezel in the past.

Nothing wrong with having that sensor under display.

People have pointed out several potential flaws with this approach, including having to look at the screen to know where you're supposed to touch, and it being a 'light-based' approach to reading a fingerprint.
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Speaking of which, I first registered my clean shaven face but I’ve since grown a beard for the winter and it never skipped a beat. I never noticed the learning process here. It just did it and has always worked throughout my beard growth and even subsequent trimmings.

I've had similar results. I registered FaceID while clean-shaven. I grew a beard and sometimes for work I am required to wear a hard hat, full coverup safety glasses, and a beard net...FaceID still works fine. I was amazed.
 
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Clearly it would have been on the phones - just use common sense. Sometimes companies don’t share with the mere mortals.

You haven't shown what makes it clear or common sensical are just spouting completely unsubstantiated rumors. The people sharing the rumors turned out to be completely incorrect, so why would I take their word that Apple gave up on it?
 
Why does somebody has to put the finger at the specific spot on screen? Looking at the hardware, I can see a phone with lower half of the screen area for finger print scanning. That's should be good enough.
 
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Why does somebody has to put the finger at the specific spot on screen? Looking at the hardware, I can see a phone with lower half of the screen area for finger print scanning. That's should be good enough.

All of the images in the article point to having it being located in one specific spot. I guess it just depends on how the company implementing plans to do it.
 
Samsung need something for all of the S8 users who have phones that just die on them. Put it on charge and the next morning bricked phone, can’t power or or reset etc no lights or indicators. Then it takes Samsung 3 weeks to replace it. No sure what breaks but there are a hell of a lot of them with the same fault.
Did you just dream that?
 
Ahaha all the FaceID, notch, "Apple is never going back to fingerprints" fanbois are like "ohh I'm looking forward to this"
 
So if you consider an unsubstantiated rumor to be a proper citation, what about a properly cited article from the same source completely refuting it?

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/10/31/apple-dismisses-touch-id-under-display-rumors/
You consider talking to another human without being passive aggressive? I heard what I heard, I didn't see the article you posted. I simply searched for it because you asked about it where I got my info. I didn't re-read the article just to post a link. I think maybe macrumours should take more responsibility here to make it clear in the title it's been updated or invalid.
 
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't all the sensors for face ID under the front glass? I would think there is a possibility if the glass is cracked around the sensors it would cause issues for them scanning your face.

Nope, all the sensors are in the housing of that 'notch', which is separate from the front glass. So even if the front glass break, FaceID would still work just fine, except if there's a chance that the glass break in the area that house the sensors AND cause the sensors to get loose or something like that then there's probably be a problem. However, it's the same thing if the front glass break in the same area of the TouchID sensor and cause its cable to get loose or break.
 
I think Apple absolutely knows that Face ID alone is resulting a substantial amount of failed authentication attempts on the X.

I would guess they have data on the times of day, phone orientations when it is failing and how that compares to Touch ID phones.

I would guess that there is already enough data to justify another attempt at the belt and suspenders approach to Auth on iPhone.

Many folks in these forums claim it is as good as Touch ID, and it is in some ways better. But in some situations it fails when Touch ID wild have trivially unlocked the phone.

I would be very surprised if Apple did not bring Touch ID back to iPhone X’s successor.

They won't, they will just make faceID better, like they did with touchID, version 2.0 was way better. Just need it to work a few things:
1) unlock in any orientation
2) faster recognition
3) having it try again when it fails, without having to re-lock the phone
 
Question as a follow-up: can you comment on why TouchID works so well through a freezer-weight plastic bag? I'd be interested in any technical explanations or comments - thank you.

RF sensors use a frequency chosen such that they can easily sense through the sapphire cover and even under your outer skin layer a tiny bit. I guess your bag is similar to having thick skin :)

Q: did you train it with the bag, or it just works even with the extra distance? If the latter, then the sensor software is looking more for relative measurements than absolute ones.

I was just commenting on the ergonomics of a back fingerprint sensor on phones, if it supposedly were a good choice, under the screen sensor development would not be necessary.

Right, and I was pointing out that the back of a phone was the (only?) good choice to avoid using up frontal space for a sensor, until under-display sensors became possible.

Similar to how TouchId was a good choice until FaceId became possible.

Technology advances and more choices arise. Doesn't make the old choices bad. Sometimes they're simply the only ones possible at the time.

So many people choose to look at this like Apple took screen real estate away rather than considering that they actually reclaimed some screen space that had been taken by the bezel in the past.

+1
 
The first sentence states that ‘begun mass production’ so that time line would line up with a new iphoneSE in the spring.
Shut up. I don’t dare hope for anything special with the SE—especially anything that implies a bezel-free display.
 
RF sensors use a frequency chosen such that they can easily sense through the sapphire cover and even under your outer skin layer a tiny bit. I guess your bag is similar to having thick skin :)

Q: did you train it with the bag, or it just works even with the extra distance? If the latter, then the sensor software is looking more for relative measurements than absolute ones.

+1

Thanks, didn't focus on use of RF, so that makes sense. I trained it without the bag, just bare, clean, dry fingers. So apparently the extra distance is not a problem. The touch screen works just fine through the heavy freezer bags, too, so these bags make a very good temporary rain jacket for things like cycle rides where the everyday case is enough physical protection but you need some environmental protection.
 
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Buy.

Unless, of course, FaceID is fixed to read at more of an angle (such as a table)....
Having spent a couple weeks with the iPhone X now, I do have to say, I barely miss the Touch ID... EXCEPT when i just want to unlock my home sitting at a table or desk. It makes checking my phone stealthily during meetings so much harder. But in general, I don't miss Touch ID (or the home button) nearly as much as I thought I would, and actually got a little annoyed when I picked up my iPhone 7 and had to deal with the home button again.
 
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I guess the X in iPhone X stands for eXpensive eXperiment. Face ID will fade out and Touch ID will return in the XI.
 
So will notch lovers stay with the X when it’s removed? Will they say notchless design is bad design? Will they say it’s boring or it looks like an Android?
 
You haven't shown what makes it clear or common sensical are just spouting completely unsubstantiated rumors. The people sharing the rumors turned out to be completely incorrect, so why would I take their word that Apple gave up on it?

Now, let’s imagine you have a job interview and the panel ask you series of questions. My question to you is, are you going sell yourself meaning tell them you’re the best candidate or are you going to provide them a list of all the negatives?

If you don’t get this then I wish you the very best in your life because you definitely will need it.

You're looking at it backwards--the notch isn't great, but the 'ears' that allow more of the screen to be utilized are indeed great. The alternative would be to have more bezel and less screen. As the screen is 'taller' than a 16:9 ratio, the notch doesn't affect video or anything else in any meaningful way.

You would be a poor salesman. You have not convinced me one bit. However, you’re helping me to sleep, so thank you.
 
You consider talking to another human without being passive aggressive? I heard what I heard, I didn't see the article you posted. I simply searched for it because you asked about it where I got my info. I didn't re-read the article just to post a link. I think maybe macrumours should take more responsibility here to make it clear in the title it's been updated or invalid.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I posted what is essentially a logical "if/then" statement and don't see that I included any passive/aggressive tone. But since you brought it up, the first sentence of your response probably qualifies as PA.
 
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