System Settings App in macOS Ventura Beta Still Riddled With UI Issues

[MacRumors]

It seems Apple's redesigned macOS Ventura System Settings app, which replaces the System Preferences found in macOS Monterey and earlier versions, is still not without its problems five betas in, as catalogued by developer Niki Tonsky on Twitter.

For those unfamiliar with it, the new System Settings app looks more akin to the Settings app on the iPhone and iPad than it does to the earlier macOS preferences panels, with settings placed in a sidebar for supposedly easier access.

However, Tonsky's thread highlights several bugs and issues with the interface layout in developer betas 4 and 5 of macOS Ventura, including inconsistent use and erratic behavior of basic UI elements like dropdowns and buttons, misaligned text and poorly sized windows, menu titles that are cut off by menu windows, misplaced content, and more.

The System Settings app is built using SwiftUI, Apple's cross-platform user interface layer that works across iOS, macOS, tvOS, and watchOS. Another complex app written in SwiftUI, Shortcuts, has also drawn criticism for similar UI and performance bugs on both macOS and iOS.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1557357661171204098

Linking to and commenting on Tonsky's tweet thread on his own website, Daring Fireball's John Gruber said there is "something deeply wrong with SwiftUI that, even while in-progress, so many little layout details are apparently hard to get right."

There are buttons that are halfway cut off by their parent view. When has Apple ever shipped beta software with problems like that? Putting aside the philosophical issue of whether the Mac's system prefs/settings app should follow the basic model of Settings on iOS/iPadOS, no matter what style MacOS's System Settings is supposed to look like, there should be no question that it should look pixel-perfect.

In an interview with Gruber on The Talk Show Live at WWDC 2022, Craig Federighi said that despite what some may think, ‌macOS Ventura‌'s System Settings redesign was not largely inspired by iOS. Federighi insisted that the development team's main goal was consistency for users, and said System Settings on ‌macOS Ventura‌ is a "great interface."

Despite the lingering issues, there's still time for Apple to correct them, as macOS Ventura isn't likely to be scheduled for release until October, or perhaps even early November. Have you had similar experiences interacting with System Settings in the latest beta? What do you think of the new look? Let us know in the comments.

Article Link: System Settings App in macOS Ventura Beta Still Riddled With UI Issues

 

[Newfiebill]

For years I enjoyed testing and trying out the BETA OS’s Mac, iOS, etc. I wouldn’t even dare the past few years. Even the .1 release i try hard to stay away from. Ugg…..

 

[jake.au]

"How cool is that"

 

[damienbutt]

I hate the new System Settings app on macOS Ventura. I will be sticking with Monterey for a while I think. I don't see why they had to change it. There is nothing wrong with how it functions now. It feels like they are trying to dumb it down to an iPad level.

 

[Smooch]

This is exactly why my company has opted to not develop apps using SwiftUI yet.

 

[PsykX]

This is exactly why we do not write apps using SwiftUI yet.

Irrelevant to the conversation. It's a Design and/or QA problem at the core, not a framework problem.

All of the points mentioned by the developer in the article are valid and can be fixed, SwiftUI or not.

 

[Wanted797]

Beta software has issues…

Well I’ll be dammed.

 

[randolorian]

Hopefully, the new System Settings will be pulled before release, similar to last year's Safari fiasco.

 

[icanhazmac]

Ug, record profits but a fading software experience and the specter of ads in all the base apps?

 

[darngooddesign]

Breaking news: Beta software isn't 100% perfect.

 

[Smooch]

Irrelevant to the conversation. It's a Design and/or QA problem at the core, not a framework problem.

All of the points mentioned by the developer in the article are valid and can be fixed, SwiftUI or not.

Agree to disagree. SwiftUI for Mac has some very rough edges that cut into the user experience. Things that AppKit has been doing right all along.

 

[ersan191]

They also shuffled a bunch of settings around so you can't find them, searching will sometimes link to a settings pane that doesn't exist, and some more obscure settings have been inexplicably removed. Not a fan honestly, reminds me of Microsoft when they switched to the new settings app.

 

[saudor]

For years I enjoyed testing and trying out the BETA OS’s Mac, iOS, etc. I wouldn’t even dare the past few years. Even the .1 release i try hard to stay away from. Ugg…..

same. betas used to be exciting. these days i only consider upgrading the main partition when the last .6 release is out. currently have a test 12.5 partition and it’s finally stable enough to consider updating my main 11.6.8 install. the remaining issue is dropbox/onedrive where apple messed it up since 12.3

 

[Newfiebill]

I hate the new System Settings app on macOS Ventura. I will be sticking with Monterey for a while I think. I don't see why they had to change it. There is nothing wrong with how it functions now. It feels like they are trying to dumb it down to an iPad level.

Fully agree.

 

[MacFan23]

I hate the new System Settings app on macOS Ventura. I will be sticking with Monterey for a while I think. I don't see why they had to change it. There is nothing wrong with how it functions now. It feels like they are trying to dumb it down to an iPad level.

Is it dumbing it down if it still has all the same functionality?

The current UI is literally just a grid of icons. Are we losing features?

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

Irrelevant to the conversation.

Not really. The article mentions how John Gruber believes there is something “deeply wrong with SwiftUI”.

 

[Bokito]

Long time Mac users: "We want more macOS on i(Pad)OS."
Apple: "We think iOS users want to see more of it on macOS, but we didn't ask anyone and we're gonna do it in a hurry"

I don't really understand why Apple wants to port iOS stuff to macOS. The (back then) refreshed Airport Utility is a complete disaster, lost functionality and is generally harder to use. And this has been with all the apps Apple is porting from iOS. Yes, we have apps like Stocks now, but does it behave and act like a truly native Mac app? Well, after all those years it's getting close, but we're still not there yet. The Music app is still a native Mac app from the core, but all functionality that Apple didn't have to change from iTunes was changed and vice versa.

But the new Settings app is setting a new example for total awkwardness. macOS isn't a vertical system, yet they introduce a vertical UI (as it comes from iOS). It doesn't feel like a Mac app and doesn't behave like one. System Preferences isn't perfect, but at least everything is clear. macOS isn't iOS, but Apple doesn't understand that while they do say so. I generally hope they don't ship it and avoid another discoveryd fiasco.

Breaking news: Beta software isn't 100% perfect.

This isn't just beta software. It's completely broken and will be almost impossible to properly fix. A few issues can certainly arise when something goes into beta, but this is just a disaster.

 

[Andrew73875]

I remember when UI elements were a reason for a keynote:

"You spend months working on a button."

"We paid a lot of attention to dynamics. Not only how the things look but how do they move, how do they behave."

 

[gank41]

For those wondering why the 'Settings' team would have done such a thing:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559400506966962176

and then

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559402048587571201

This is almost a direct comparison to how Safari's SideBar was borked when the Safari team was required to update and comply with Apple's own HIG, which then forced the SideBar to run all the way to the top of Safari as opposed to staying in line in the window. The 'Settings' team is probably ALSO being told to comply with Apple's own HIG, forcing them to make the change.

And FWIW, the latest Ventura beta fixes the glaring issue in the first tweet.

 

[damienbutt]

Is it dumbing it down if it still has all the same functionality?

The current UI is literally just a grid of icons. Are we losing features?

Well when I had a peek and admittedly that was on PB1, you couldn't even set custom DNS servers on the network interfaces. At least there were no options for it that I could find. Not sure if that has changed tbh. But since then I have not seen a lot of positive feedback here and elsewhere regarding the System Settings app either.

 

[beatrixwillius]

Breaking news: Beta software isn't 100% perfect.

No, Ventura has enough beta issues. The System Settings have a design problem. It's like it was designed by a bunch of interns on crack.

I had to ask here on the forum how to use "Unsend a Message" in Mail because I couldn't see it. I opened a ticket for a feature request to remove a Reminder in Mail. It took them 6 weeks to answer that there is a gesture available. The gesture shows a white on yellow icon.

 

[bluecoast]

There was a famous saying - I think from the 90s/00s - that said that Apple had problems both walking and chewing gum at the same time.

Meaning that it could either develop a new product or look after existing products - but not both.

I suspect that this still is happening there and teams are nearly all assigned to VR/AVR and Car.

Thus leaving teams working on features/technologies that aren't supporting the forthcoming new products, severely understaffed.

 

[return2sendai]

iTunes and System Preferences all fine here in smug Mojave land.

 

[gank41]

No, Ventura has enough beta issues. The System Settings have a design problem. It's like it was designed by a bunch of interns on crack.

I had to ask here on the forum how to use "Unsend a Message" in Mail because I couldn't see it. I opened a ticket for a feature request to remove a Reminder in Mail. It took them 6 weeks to answer that there is a gesture available. The gesture shows a white on yellow icon.

WHOA! Someone from Apple replied to you in the Feedback app? luckeeeeeeee

 

[match14]

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