koyoot
macrumors 603
BMW still sells 1 series cars, for people who mainly use them everyday 😉. But they are not racing cars 😉.
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T-Minus (3) Days Until VEGA!!
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In the U.S the only 1 series you can buy is used. They made the fugly 2 series to replace it.
And the 1 Series could compete with a Boxster/Cayman of the period, especially when tuned.
Most people who buy Apple products are probably more financially sound than the average person who walks into a store and buys a cheapo Windows laptop for a few hundred bucks. Quality over quantity, better experience. I think what pisses a lot of Apple users off is when you see these enthusiast OEM/ODM laptops that have better CPU's, GPU's with more memory, for like half to three quarters of the price. The main advantage Apple has is the slim design and battery life, plus Apple care. Everything else can be exceded by expensive Windows notebooks. Razer, Dell, MSI, Alienware, ect. I think what keeps a lot of people to stay loyal to Apple is the Operating System. A lot of people cannot stand the Windows enviornment. I actually have both. I have Apple iPads, Iphones, Macbook Air, but I also have high end Laptop and a high end desktop. I love 'em all...
Steve Jobs: We just can't ship Junk!
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ThisBougieLife
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So do you guys think the Vega 16 or 20 is a better option? I guess I'm concerned that because the 20 has a TDP of 100 compared to the 16's 75 (which is the same as the 560X) that it might create too much heat.
If I were to get one, I would not be getting the i9, I should say.
If I were to get one, I would not be getting the i9, I should say.
Absolutely unbelievable. In Canada BC, a maxed out macbook pro configured with i9/32gb/Vega 20/4TB SSD comes out to $9856 after taxes. Assuming we just go for a more reasonable 1TB SSD, the price is $6100 after taxes. As someone who purchased a 2018 MBP configured with i9/32gb/560x/512gb SSD, I really don't know why anybody would ever want to spend that much on a laptop.
The magnitude of the greediness of Apple is just laughable to me at this point in time. My 2018 MBP is the first apple laptop I've bought and last apple laptop I will ever buy. I've been having some of the dreaded kernel panic issues which is ridiculous for my machine that cost $4600. I'm going to wait for the Surface book 3 to come out and then sell my machine. With my budget, I'm pretty sure I can still purchase a different high-end machine even after the depreciation loss I'll incur after selling my 2018 MBP.
The magnitude of the greediness of Apple is just laughable to me at this point in time. My 2018 MBP is the first apple laptop I've bought and last apple laptop I will ever buy. I've been having some of the dreaded kernel panic issues which is ridiculous for my machine that cost $4600. I'm going to wait for the Surface book 3 to come out and then sell my machine. With my budget, I'm pretty sure I can still purchase a different high-end machine even after the depreciation loss I'll incur after selling my 2018 MBP.
koyoot
macrumors 603
Depends on what you're using it for. Unless you're using the RMBP professionaly there's no reason to drop 3 to 5k on a laptop, when you're just checking email, browsing and ocasionally playing games. That's a lot of coin man. You're better off getting a Macbook Air, or Mac Mini.
ThisBougieLife
Suspended
Oh! Must've read that wrong, then.
Well I use Photoshop and Lightroom with some frequency, but I'm certainly not a professional. I know I probably don't need the top end one. Just wanted to make sure that if I did get it, it wouldn't get significantly hotter than the 16. Probably should wait for some reviews.
I think he meant the Core i9 would generate too much heat when combined with the Vega 20, when usinging it in prolonged situations, thus throttling occurs.
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ThisBougieLife
Suspended
Well I would get the i7 2.6 GHz. Ever since I used a 27" iMac with the i5 and it was lightning fast, I realized upgrading the processor isn't everything. The i9 doesn't seem worth the price or the potential heat.
Celedral
macrumors 6502
I’ve always hit memory swap on my 16gb MacBook Pros since 2012 doing what I normally do. You’re just basing this off of people that just browse the web instead of using it for professional work.
I've been following this thread a lot. I am currently working from a super loyal mid 2010 15 macbook pro and I now need an upgrade.
I am a graphic designer and illustrator and I use a lot of Photoshop (design and painting, Baugasm style), Illustrator and occasionally I do 3D Graphics and After Effects.
Am I going to benefit a lot from this new GPU? Would you go for the 560x instead?
I am a graphic designer and illustrator and I use a lot of Photoshop (design and painting, Baugasm style), Illustrator and occasionally I do 3D Graphics and After Effects.
Am I going to benefit a lot from this new GPU? Would you go for the 560x instead?
All the Adobe CC pre-press related apps ask for lots of RAM. InDesign, Illustrator, Photoshop, even Distiller, I have seen they hit 16GB brick wall for all of them. It doubles down when lots of 16-bit high res raster images are used, and then maybe some high point-count vector arts also. Distiller even refused to convert a multi-hundred page color book into PDF one time, not even an error message, just stopped at like page 120 or so and gave me an incomplete PDF without the missing pages.
Not saying this is typical use-case but just answering the question.
Not saying this is typical use-case but just answering the question.
What people seem to forget (or not know?) is that you only need RAM for the working set. But the working set is not only limited by available RAM, it's also limited by memory bandwidth and CPU capacity. CPU is generally no problem these days, but memory bandwidth is. Modern processors today can easily access all of 16G RAM in less than a second. Theoretically, they can also with 32G but the way apps are written I suspect you can't really utilize that as a regular user.
On desktop and server systems it's a different story with quad- and octa-channel memory. But for a laptop, I agree with you that the use cases where someone actually benefits significantly from 32G are fairly few.
Future proofing is often brought up as an argument, but the memory bandwidth is going to stay the same for the lifetime of the machine, so I don't buy it.
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I think you should wait for reviews and benchmarks before you make any purchase decisions at all. Both are great chips, both are massively overpriced from Apple, but one might be better than the other in terms of value and performance. We don't know yet.
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The 560X is possibly the most pointless option of all. Go with the base model, or one of the Vegas. Skip the 560X. But please wait for reviews first.
Sterkenburg
macrumors 6502a
I feel your pain. Some 3 months ago I went to pick up a replacement for my work-issued 2017 MBP, and the new unit came with a visible discoloration on the back of the screen. When I told that to the Genius, he replied that “eh, but every machine could have small issues like this”. Wow, really?
I didn’t argue b/c it was not a personal laptop and I needed it to work, but I found it shocking to hear from an Apple employee that I should not be picky and expect out-of-the-box cosmetic defects as normal on a premium machine. Perfection obviously doesn’t exist in this world, but for $4-5k we should be pretty damn close.
tomscott1988
macrumors 6502a
Those additional prices are a joke tbh... here in the uk the 20 is A £300 upgrade on the 560x, it should be a replacement not an upgrade when you are already paying £85 more for the 560x over the 555. So that £385+ what ever the 555 baseline apple cost is.
Better off buying an EGPU if you need the extra performance. Even lower end GPUs will way outperform theses... you can buy a 580 8gb for £220 now... Vega 56 is £399 or a 64 is £469...
For the performance difference i dont think its worth it.
Better off buying an EGPU if you need the extra performance. Even lower end GPUs will way outperform theses... you can buy a 580 8gb for £220 now... Vega 56 is £399 or a 64 is £469...
For the performance difference i dont think its worth it.
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Yep, pay £385 for £180 worth of performance. The comparison doesn't hold for those who really REALLY need the GPU performance on the go, but it's worthwhile to investigate options for those who can.
It's the same with all the upgrades though. They are adding 100%+ on top of current market rates. All the upgrades are incredibly poor value, and it's really worth it to consider the minimum spec one can get away with and instead use external devices to complement.
Note that in addition to having to pay twice for the GPU upgrade, they also force you on the higher spec i7 CPU, which is another ~£85 or so on the price.
True, but it would probably take another year until the production ramps up to satisfy the demand.
First: you seem to forget that the enclosure costs the same or more. Second: not everybody would want to carry an additional box around with them. Third: did you just call a 580 and Vega 56 "lower end GPUs"??
Of course its worth it. Around 50% more performance for extra $400? It beats any other upgrade you can have on the MBP...
Ma2k5
macrumors 68030
If true, I agree. I am skeptical of how much real world difference these will make seeing as they are still on the 14nm tech and I believe, will also have the same TDP limitations set on them as the 560X - which is usually the biggest killer of performance. Some benchmarks which can use some of it's fancy features may skyrocket sure (don't they always), but I don't know if in real world we will see much more than 10-20% improvement at best? Perhaps I am being pessimistic, but I reckon the vast majority of users don't have workflows which would benefit from these Vega GPU's and are best keeping it at the 560X (or going eGPU).
I am very sure that it’s just you being pessimistic 🙂 The Polaris GPU in the MBP is seriously limited by the memory bandwidth since Apple has clocked the RAM conservatively in order to limit power consumption. HBM2 is going to be a game changer here since it more than doubles the bandwidth. Add to it 20% (at least) architectural efficiency improvement and the fact that Vega runs more CUs... and you’ll get a very impressive little device for its size.
And I agree with you that many photoshop etc. users probably won’t see much difference but that’s because their software is not good at utilizing the GPU. Of course, the biggest difference will be in games, but buying a MBP solely for gaming is a bit.... excessive.
Ma2k5
macrumors 68030
Oh definitely I agree it has improvements, I am worried they are what I call, benchmark improvements - as in if you did a blind test on your workflow with two machines, if you can't feel a difference well that's a shame. A bit like the 32GB RAM upgrade!
Gaming is probably an area it could do well I guess but like you said, gaming on Mac, even for supported games, seems to make the MacBook's scream like it's asking you to stop torturing it 😀, and the FPS isn't great considering how good the hardware is.
Ummm, this is extremely misleading.
If your job is to run GPU benchmarks all day, then yes, 50% extra performance seems fair.
But please explain a realistic real world workload where you're getting 50% extra performance overall. Please explain a workflow that is improved by even 10% from start to finish.
The upgrade may still be worth it to some, but if you need to ask, it probably isn't.
Doing anything that relies on direct 3D acceleration (e.g. 3d modelling, CAD etc.), employing workflows that use the GPU for number-crunching (a lot of scientific applications), training ML models, processing video (if your software is good at GPU acceleration, e.g. FinalCut X).
And of course, playing games 😉
P.S. Bottomline is that it's much simpler to practically justify the Vega upgrade than the CPU or RAM upgrade, which cost the same.
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koyoot
macrumors 603
In ML you will see much more than 50% performance increase over the 560X.