I understand what you are saying, and yet with a different carrier, when you pay off the phone your overall monthly bill doesn't go down. There's obviously a difference (whether there might be something else that sort of balances it in a general sense on the start or end side of things is somewhat separate from that).
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T-Mobile to Change 'Deceptive' No-Contract Ads, Offer Refunds
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Well, I guess your argument boils down to a free market. However, there is no reason that a responsible consumer would be floating small consumer debt out like that. It's just not good. There is way too much ability to get credit in this country, and as we saw in the 2008 bubble, a lot of our country is built on the ability to get cheap and easy credit to the point of absurdity. Not that iPhones are going to cause a global market meltdown, but it's just another little part of the trend of irresponsible borrowing.
Yeah, unfortunately. The whole phone and carrier thing being together in the US market really sucks. I think the best answer would be to regulate MVNO access and rates so that there are MVNOs with the same level of network access on every network at competitive rates.
Keyword highlighted. There is a huge difference between:
- A 2-year service contract with an opaque fee attached to leave
- A 2-year device payment plan + whichever non-contract service package you want
It's a matter of law. When it comes to contracts, you need to get it plain and simple. AT&T will make sure they use every word of that contract to their maximum profit. Demanding plain-ness and simplicity is how you defend yourself against that.
Let me give you an example from Germany. If you don't send a written request to cancel your contract at least 3 months before it expires, it is automatically renewed for another year. That's right - you're entered in to a legally binding commitment to pay for service for a whole 12 months if your letter arrives a day late or you forget exactly when you took the plan out (to the day).
This happened to a friend of mine. Not only did he have to pay for another year's service, but he had to pay the exact same price as during the previous two years because that was the arranged fee and wasn't explicitly broken down. That means that he received an iPhone, paid for it over 2 years, then his contract auto-renewed itself and he had to keep paying for a phone he'd already completely paid for!
If he was on one of these T-Mobile USA repayment plans, the device cost is totally separate from the service cost. He wouldn't have needed a 2-year service plan, but even if he had one and it auto-renewed, he wouldn't have to keep paying for the device since that's a separate contract.
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"-Fail to adequately disclose that customers who terminate their T-Mobile wireless service before their device is paid off will have to pay the balance due on the phone at the time of cancellation."
Mmmmmm... I kind of know that this will be the case and I am OK with it.
Mmmmmm... I kind of know that this will be the case and I am OK with it.
not deceptive to a consumer with half a brain.
I completely understood the concept t mobil was going for. nothing is for free the sooner you realize that the easier your life will be. I didn't think for one second that i could cancel with out paying for the device in full. what they are doing is not charging you the extra termination fees. they are saying pay for your device and go! what they are doing is brilliant. thats why this country is so damn far in debt because we are paying for all these government programs to protect us for being morons. if your to dumb to read the fine print you deserve to get taken. everything in life is embellished and made to look too good to be true.
I completely understood the concept t mobil was going for. nothing is for free the sooner you realize that the easier your life will be. I didn't think for one second that i could cancel with out paying for the device in full. what they are doing is not charging you the extra termination fees. they are saying pay for your device and go! what they are doing is brilliant. thats why this country is so damn far in debt because we are paying for all these government programs to protect us for being morons. if your to dumb to read the fine print you deserve to get taken. everything in life is embellished and made to look too good to be true.
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Be careful of this kind of attorney.
As a french citizen who has been milked dry by cell services providers for years, it only took one big opponent supported by millions of customers to really take the prices back to a decent level.
And guess what? All the so called "consumer association" who have been pretending to defend our interest while major players were getting away with corruption and higher prices, all tried to attacked the new one and blew up their cover because we then discovered they were financed and backed up by the major players.
When I lived in the US, all my foreign fellow student took T-Mobile because YES, clearly this is the best deal with decent service that you seem to get.
As a french citizen who has been milked dry by cell services providers for years, it only took one big opponent supported by millions of customers to really take the prices back to a decent level.
And guess what? All the so called "consumer association" who have been pretending to defend our interest while major players were getting away with corruption and higher prices, all tried to attacked the new one and blew up their cover because we then discovered they were financed and backed up by the major players.
When I lived in the US, all my foreign fellow student took T-Mobile because YES, clearly this is the best deal with decent service that you seem to get.
I'm glad T-Mobile is being forced to use clearer advertising. I'm a Verizon customer, iPhone 5 owner, unlimited data plan and out-of-contract account holder, and I have no plans on switching to T-Mobile. When T-Mobile first announced the terms of their new plans, I was a little confused. I didn't understand how it was any better than a typical two-year contract plan. In fact, I still don't see how it's any better.
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It is deceptive either way, and what you don't realize is, as dumb as it is, probably more than half the population thinks this way.
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It is deceptive either way, and what you don't realize is, as dumb as it is, probably more than half the population thinks this way.
Buyer beware is an age old saying that's true. If buyers were responsible & did their due diligence, they'd read the contract _before_ they sign it. It never ceases to amaze me how some people spend their time.
Some will sit for hours in front of the computer surfing the web. Others sit in front of TV. Yet others will spend more time "shopping" for the best price on other items far less expensive that the cost of two years of smartphone service. They'll avoid educating themselves about cell phone service and billing plans.
Finally we have those moaning about the carriers pricing. Last time I checked, owning an iPhone was voluntary. Funny how finger pointing victims cry the loudest. If you don't like it, but you still sign on the line, don't whine, go look in the mirror. There you'll see the perp.
Some will sit for hours in front of the computer surfing the web. Others sit in front of TV. Yet others will spend more time "shopping" for the best price on other items far less expensive that the cost of two years of smartphone service. They'll avoid educating themselves about cell phone service and billing plans.
Finally we have those moaning about the carriers pricing. Last time I checked, owning an iPhone was voluntary. Funny how finger pointing victims cry the loudest. If you don't like it, but you still sign on the line, don't whine, go look in the mirror. There you'll see the perp.
Oh look:
Candidate/Committee Name, Contribution Date, Amount, Primary/General, Contributor Name, City, State, Zip Code, Employer, Occupation FERGUSON ROBERT W, 08/25/2009, 500.00, P, VERIZON COMMUNICATIONS INC. GOOD GOV'T CLUB OF WA, OLYMPIA, WA, 98501, , FERGUSON ROBERT W, 12/31/2012, 500.00, G, VERIZON COMMUNICATIONS INC. GOOD GOV'T CLUB OF WA, OLYMPIA, WA, 98501, ,
It turns out Verizon is a regular contributor to Mr. Ferguson. T-Mobile is not.
Source: http://www.pdc.wa.gov/servlet/ContServlet
Candidate/Committee Name, Contribution Date, Amount, Primary/General, Contributor Name, City, State, Zip Code, Employer, Occupation FERGUSON ROBERT W, 08/25/2009, 500.00, P, VERIZON COMMUNICATIONS INC. GOOD GOV'T CLUB OF WA, OLYMPIA, WA, 98501, , FERGUSON ROBERT W, 12/31/2012, 500.00, G, VERIZON COMMUNICATIONS INC. GOOD GOV'T CLUB OF WA, OLYMPIA, WA, 98501, ,
It turns out Verizon is a regular contributor to Mr. Ferguson. T-Mobile is not.
Source: http://www.pdc.wa.gov/servlet/ContServlet
I'm not surprised people are this dumb. I constantly get people who break their phones after a recent upgrade, and are shocked that if they want to buy a replacement it will cost them hundreds. I have been told repeatedly that the prices listed are deceptive and fraudulent, even though the tag includes an unactivated price. Many others get upset that they have to pay for service or get a contract to get that free smartphone.
WHY IS ANYONE'S TAX MONEY BEING USED TO PAY THIS GUY'S WAGES TO DO THIS!?
We can't pay for airport security, but oh, pay some guy to attack a business because their ad campaign is unique, that's totally a-ok!?
Someone here is going to tell me that I can't directly compare those two things, because one costs a lot more money than the other, but here's the issue: there's a lot more of stupid crap exactly like this our tax money is going to.
Someone else is going to point out that it's Washington state, and that they don't care because they don't live in that state, or possibly in the US, but this stupid crap is going down in every state and many (all? I can't come up with an exception...) countries.
Edit: Took out my "You guys seem to be missing this one" comment at the start - Tiger8 just above me mentioned it.
We can't pay for airport security, but oh, pay some guy to attack a business because their ad campaign is unique, that's totally a-ok!?
Someone here is going to tell me that I can't directly compare those two things, because one costs a lot more money than the other, but here's the issue: there's a lot more of stupid crap exactly like this our tax money is going to.
Someone else is going to point out that it's Washington state, and that they don't care because they don't live in that state, or possibly in the US, but this stupid crap is going down in every state and many (all? I can't come up with an exception...) countries.
Edit: Took out my "You guys seem to be missing this one" comment at the start - Tiger8 just above me mentioned it.
Huh? I thought T-Mobile was abundantly clear that you would have to pay the phone off.
This is definitely a waste of Tax Payer's money, but they definitely need to examine other carrier's practices, especially AT&T's "unlimited data" that is not truly unlimited.
This is definitely a waste of Tax Payer's money, but they definitely need to examine other carrier's practices, especially AT&T's "unlimited data" that is not truly unlimited.
Exactly, for the morons of society, which i guess is 90+%. Glad the general has so much time on his hands to really shelter us of all the wrong doings of tmobile, not the price gouging of the rest the carriers or anything
That is an interesting angle to look at it from. But instead of saying they reversed it, you must realize that they are being more transparent about what you're paying for. Calling it what it is--a down payment rather than a discount and a monthly payment for the remainder of the price of that specific phone--is more honest than telling you you're getting a discounted phone and that there are early termination fees and that you have to pay for the special Blackberry plan, or iPhone plan depending on which you choose.
What carrier and plan are you talking about? Give me some facts instead of telling me I don't know how it works.
You are correct in the second scenario. It will drop down.
Ex:
Tmobile
$50 monthly phone bill with no ETF
$20 subsidized phone bill
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$70/monthly until phone is paid off then goes down to $50/month
OR: $50/monthly if I paid for the phone outright or brought my own unlocked phone
Other carriers:
$70/monthly regardless if I had paid of my phone or even if I brought my own unlocked phone. I'll be paying this same amount forever with or without getting a new subsidized phone every 2 years.
I'm with AT&T right now just because T-mobile doesn't have a very good coverage in my area otherwise I would have jumped ship. AT&T forces me to get a new phone every 2 years because I would be paying the same amount anyways so might as well get a subsidized phone but unfortunately locks me in contract again for another 2 years. And the cycle continues...
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This actually pisses me off. They are screwing T-mobile when T-mobile is actually trying to move to a more consumer friendly business model. This is so anti-consumer it is ridiculous. Saying that everyone that got the iPhone 5 unlocked on T-mobile can walk away with their iPhone and don't have to pay it off?
They, Tmob, started these plans years ago, not a couple months ago. And yes, they are cheaper than the old plans that used the same methods as ATT and VZW. Your comments have been the height of irony.
And here I thought T-Mobile was giving me a free, contract-free phone. Thanks for clarifying this for me Mr. AG, and protecting us from that evil T-Mobile, who does not charge us the higher monthly fee, those other nice carriers do, even after the phones have been paid for.
Anyone else think that maybe AT&T, et all, have put some pressure on Mr. AG to force T-Mobile to change those nasty and 'deceptive' ads?
Are you telling me whenever you update your iPhones OS (or anything similar) you fully read and UNDERSTAND the 26 page agreement before pressing the agree button?
the parent company is the German Telecom. Ask Germans what they think of their service
Also the German telecom has introduced plans to limit data volume on all residential internet plans, excluding data coming from their own services. That's the company you're dealing with.
Also the German telecom has introduced plans to limit data volume on all residential internet plans, excluding data coming from their own services. That's the company you're dealing with.
Sounds like a better system than over here. We have the Advertising Standards Authority which typically takes 6 months to ban any advert, long after it's run its course anyway.
When I say 'ban' I mean they ask them 'not to run it in its current form again'.
If you ignore them, you get put on a blacklist hidden in the depths of the ASA website. Being on the blacklist means nothing and nobody ever bothers to look or check.
So companies here know they can ignore the ASA with impunity.
It's a fantastic system. God know how much of taxpayers' money is wasted on this toothless setup.
When I say 'ban' I mean they ask them 'not to run it in its current form again'.
If you ignore them, you get put on a blacklist hidden in the depths of the ASA website. Being on the blacklist means nothing and nobody ever bothers to look or check.
So companies here know they can ignore the ASA with impunity.
It's a fantastic system. God know how much of taxpayers' money is wasted on this toothless setup.