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mig0

macrumors member
Nov 24, 2012
58
15
Strange. The store I went in with my ex-girlfriend gave her a choice. Poor training perhaps.

It did sound like it was a training snafu. 2 of the employees were bickering over whether or not what I was trying to do was possible or not, and their boss was indicating it wasn't. I walked out of there a bit annoyed.
 

chrismac2

macrumors regular
Jan 14, 2008
195
167
Seattle, WA
The tagline T-Mobile is using to differentiate themselves from the others is No Commitment, but there is a commitment to the phone, if you choose to put down a down payment.

Exactly! Yes the contract is about the phone, not the service, but really what difference does it make. Cell phone service without a phone is useless, so is a phone without a cell phone service plan.

It's just a gimmick, separate out the phone purchase to a payment plan contract, and advertise "no contract service plans".....

I'm not saying that isn't a good idea, but I can see how Sprint, Verizon, and AT&T, would not be happy with T-mobile getting away with making gullible consumers believe no contracts are involved, when that's not the case.
 

TelevisionTV

macrumors newbie
Apr 11, 2012
12
0
Agreed

You're signing up for a payment plan for the phone, not a cell phone service contract. If you don't buy a phone: no contract. How is that not obvious to anybody with a brain?
I agree. They made it very obvious.

I went in the first day they offered it. I read up on how it worked on their website and completely understood that part of my bill would be going toward paying off the phone for 2 years. I put $300 down to make my monthly payments lower and I could have paid the full price if I wanted to. And the salesman was very clear that the only contract I had with them was to pay for the phone.

The placards next to each model phone in the store also made it known how much you'd be paying monthly for the phone over 2 years and how much you had to put down.

There shouldn't have been any confusion at all.

In case anybody is wondering, I get great service in the greater Los Angeles area.

I think what they're doing is great.
 

chrismac2

macrumors regular
Jan 14, 2008
195
167
Seattle, WA
Absolutely.

T-Mobile are not being deceptive here: they're doing what everyone has been asking for and separating the cellular service and device products. There is still no contract for cellular service.

There is no contract for cellular service, but there is a contract for phone purchase.....if you want to purchase a phone. When the next big phone comes along, lots of people are doing just that.

If you want to, they also offer the option to buy a device in instalments to use with your contract-free cellular service. Or you can re-use one you already have. Simple.

Which is basically the same as every other carrier. If you already have a phone that works on their service, you can sign up for service without a contract. All carriers do that.

If you want to purchase a new phone, you can get a discount on the phone, as long as you agree to be on their service for 2-years. You can leave any time and pay the ETF which is like paying the remaining balance on the phone purchase plan.

All the same in the end. And the AG is just saying, you don't get to pretend like there's no contract involved. It's a marketing gimmick and they're being called out on it.
 

617aircav

Suspended
Jul 2, 2012
3,975
818
I agree. They made it very obvious.

I went in the first day they offered it. I read up on how it worked on their website and completely understood that part of my bill would be going toward paying off the phone for 2 years. I put $300 down to make my monthly payments lower and I could have paid the full price if I wanted to. And the salesman was very clear that the only contract I had with them was to pay for the phone.

The placards next to each model phone in the store also made it known how much you'd be paying monthly for the phone over 2 years and how much you had to put down.

There shouldn't have been any confusion at all.

In case anybody is wondering, I get great service in the greater Los Angeles area.

I think what they're doing is great.

This not about what they advertise in the store. They are providing financing on the phones, which you can't walk away from without completing your payment, just as in a regular phone contract.
 

Kar98

macrumors 65816
Feb 20, 2007
1,256
867
T-mobile has always been run by crooks. When I told them I was switching to AT&T in a few months, TWICE they charged me some random $300 fee and they never told me what it was about. I called them up, yelled for a couple of minutes and they removed it. Such crooks.

Nice try, AT&T shill.
 

fr33 loader

macrumors regular
Jul 25, 2007
207
0
What are you trying to say Gasu?

You need to remember who F'ed up the economy, the smart brainy people. Now they're managing to F up the entire world so if I were you I wouldn't be talking about brainy people.

Remember, they're experts not professionals.

Sense the smart people have taken over now we have wars.
So where's your cave located at?
 

Shrink

macrumors G3
Feb 26, 2011
8,929
1,727
New England, USA
What are you trying to say Gasu?

You need to remember who F'ed up the economy, the smart brainy people. Now they're managing to F up the entire world so if I were you I wouldn't be talking about brainy people.
Sense the smart people have taken over now we have wars.

I really like your logic.

Let's get those stupid people back in power. (Have they ever left??) Those smart brainy people are just too damn smart and brainy.

I say being smart and brainy should be an instant disqualification for any position of power or responsibility!

:rolleyes:
 

TelevisionTV

macrumors newbie
Apr 11, 2012
12
0
This not about what they advertise in the store. They are providing financing on the phones, which you can't walk away from without completing your payment, just as in a regular phone contract.

But in a "regular" phone contract with another carrier even though your phone is "paid off" after 2 years they still bill you for it every month after. They deceptively call it "being eligible for an upgrade." When you finish paying off your phone with T-Mobile, which you can do at any time, your monthly bill drops to the price of service only. It's great.

I think the advertisements in question make it clear that they are about service.
 

blkjedi954

macrumors 6502
Feb 15, 2012
375
296
Florida
Attorney General should protect businesses from the Galactically stupid

Let me get this right; the consumer assumes to purchase an expensive phone and simply pay one month of service then quit and maintain ownership of the expensive equipment with no recourse?? And you're protecting these bottom-feeders who, you'd better believe, thought it was a viable scheme. SMH, gross stupidity on the AG's part for making T-Mobile come clean in this "obvious deceptive" ploy to swindle the masses. What a crock!!
 

TelevisionTV

macrumors newbie
Apr 11, 2012
12
0
Exactly! Yes the contract is about the phone, not the service, but really what difference does it make. Cell phone service without a phone is useless, so is a phone without a cell phone service plan.

It's just a gimmick, separate out the phone purchase to a payment plan contract, and advertise "no contract service plans".....

I'm not saying that isn't a good idea, but I can see how Sprint, Verizon, and AT&T, would not be happy with T-mobile getting away with making gullible consumers believe no contracts are involved, when that's not the case.

It's not a gimmick and is different from other carriers contracts is that you can bring your own phone or pay off the phone you bought from T-Mobile at any time and lower your monthly bill to the price of service only. You can also add or remove services from the plan you are on at any time because there is no service contract. The phone and plan are paid for separately, none of the other carriers do that.
 

ActionableMango

macrumors G3
Sep 21, 2010
9,612
6,907
Written like a Neo-con.

Sorry, but if Clink is doing the same they will be ordered as well. This is a classic example of how come Washingon State will never go republican. We're not that dumb.

You've never heard of large, entrenched corporations using political clout to protect their rich business model over smaller corporations trying to upset the status quo?

That may or may not be the case here, but it certainly happens all the time. It's quite the norm, really.

I don't understand what that has to do with neo-cons.
 

fr33 loader

macrumors regular
Jul 25, 2007
207
0
Exactly! Yes the contract is about the phone, not the service, but really what difference does it make. Cell phone service without a phone is useless, so is a phone without a cell phone service plan.

It's just a gimmick, separate out the phone purchase to a payment plan contract, and advertise "no contract service plans".....

I'm not saying that isn't a good idea, but I can see how Sprint, Verizon, and AT&T, would not be happy with T-mobile getting away with making gullible consumers believe no contracts are involved, when that's not the case.

Highlighted for emphasis.

Where is the deception there? They didn't say anything about a free phone to go with it. You don't expect to pay a down payment on a subsidized phone and keep it without paying it off.

Some people likes to keep their phone for more than 2 years. They will be saving money as their monthly service phone bill will be low after they have paid off their subsidized phone as they made it separate. Unlike in other carriers, you'd continue paying the same high monthly bill even if you have already paid the subsidized phone or even after contract.
 

ScottLive5

macrumors newbie
Apr 23, 2013
15
0
What is more deceptive is their claim of good 4G coverage even in 1900 "refarmed" areas. I stay on 2G EDGE most of the time.
 

chalmers4three

macrumors member
Jul 15, 2012
84
16
It's not a gimmick and is different from other carriers contracts is that you can bring your own phone or pay off the phone you bought from T-Mobile at any time and lower your monthly bill to the price of service only. You can also add or remove services from the plan you are on at any time because there is no service contract. The phone and plan are paid for separately, none of the other carriers do that.

You really have no idea how other carriers work do you? When I signed up for service with my carrier I was offered the choice to pay full price for the device or sign a two year contract to get the phone at a discounted price. The contract only says I am staying with the service for two years and they will not offer me another phone at a discounted rate until I have completed 18 months of my contract. The cost of the service is the same either way and I can change plans and add or remove features at anytime. My early termination fee starts at a certain price and decreases by a certain amount each month.

Tmobile has just reversed this idea. You're just paying a portion of your ETF each month but it is disguised as a phone payment plan. If you leave before the payment plan is over you just pay the remainder of the ETF but it is disguised as paying off your phone. The service plan is the same price.

I find it ironic the people calling out people for thinking they could sign up and leave after a month with no penalty yet they think what tmobile is doing is so different from other carriers. Wake up folks you have been duped. All the "contracts" on major carriers are not for service they are for the phones. Bring your own phone or pay full price and then there is no contract....period.
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,390
19,458
It's sad that Americans are so dumb that they have to have everything financed out like that. If you can't afford the $350 for a new phone (or $650 in the case of the iPhone) then you shouldn't be buying a new phone. Financing little consumer items like this has bred consumer irresponsibility.
Truthfully the consumers are the ones who are responsible...or I should say irresponsible...not the options that are provided to them. While I agree in the overall spirit of what you are trying to say, I don't see why options of that nature shouldn't exist for reasonable and responsible consumers. Maybe not specifically in this case, but even if one has the money to cover a purchase, but can easily spread out the payment over some time (whether with some interest or, even better, without any interest) then why shouldn't a responsible consumer have that option to consider, for whatever reason. Too many irresponsible (among other things) people is where the actual problem is, and clearly it's not limited to just the American population (as economic problems across the entire world have proven many times over).

----------

You really have no idea how other carriers work do you? When I signed up for service with my carrier I was offered the choice to pay full price for the device or sign a two year contract to get the phone at a discounted price. The contract only says I am staying with the service for two years and they will not offer me another phone at a discounted rate until I have completed 18 months of my contract. The cost of the service is the same either way and I can change plans and add or remove features at anytime. My early termination fee starts at a certain price and decreases by a certain amount each month.

Tmobile has just reversed this idea. You're just paying a portion of your ETF each month but it is disguised as a phone payment plan. If you leave before the payment plan is over you just pay the remainder of the ETF but it is disguised as paying off your phone. The service plan is the same price.

I find it ironic the people calling out people for thinking they could sign up and leave after a month with no penalty yet they think what tmobile is doing is so different from other carriers. Wake up folks you have been duped. All the "contracts" on major carriers are not for service they are for the phones. Bring your own phone or pay full price and then there is no contract....period.
And if you bring your own device, then you pay less monthly for the same service that someone is paying with a subsidized phone? Aha, there you go. You are not paying any less. While with T-Mobile, if you bring your own phone, you would in fact be paying less since you wouldn't be paying the phone related fees and just the service fees. Clearly, there's a difference.
 

chalmers4three

macrumors member
Jul 15, 2012
84
16
Highlighted for emphasis.

Where is the deception there? They didn't say anything about a free phone to go with it. You don't expect to pay a down payment on a subsidized phone and keep it without paying it off.

Some people likes to keep their phone for more than 2 years. They will be saving money as their monthly service phone bill will be low after they have paid off their subsidized phone as they made it separate. Unlike in other carriers, you'd continue paying the same high monthly bill even if you have already paid the subsidized phone or even after contract.

Are the service plans with the phone price added in the same price the plans were before they started this service? If not then where is the advantage? For example if the plan was $69 a couple months ago before they started this and now it is $89 with the phone and will drop back down to $69 after the phone is paid off where is the advantage? If it is $69 now WITH the phone and when it is paid off it will drop to $49 then I agree with your last statement. With my carrier the cost of the phone is separate than the plan and I only need to pay more than the initial cost of the phone if I cancel the service.
 

gnasher729

Suspended
Nov 25, 2005
17,980
5,565
Exactly! Yes the contract is about the phone, not the service, but really what difference does it make. Cell phone service without a phone is useless, so is a phone without a cell phone service plan.

The last one, not at all. You can buy a used iPhone, and you get for very little money a music player, video player, photo and video camera, address book, Sat Nav, compass, GPS, and lots of other things, all without phone service. Internet and e-mail access in many places as well.
 

Ping Guo

macrumors 6502
Oct 5, 2008
349
0
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
It's sad that Americans are so dumb that they have to have everything financed out like that. If you can't afford the $350 for a new phone (or $650 in the case of the iPhone) then you shouldn't be buying a new phone. Financing little consumer items like this has bred consumer irresponsibility.

Yep. But think about all the money that wouldn't be made selling "free" phones with jacked up plans to the sheeple.
 

DaveN

macrumors 6502a
May 1, 2010
903
752
I thought it was clear you had to pay for the phone if you bailed early.
 

chalmers4three

macrumors member
Jul 15, 2012
84
16
And if you bring your own device, then you pay less monthly for the same service that someone is paying with a subsidized phone? Aha, there you go. You are not paying any less. While with T-Mobile, if you bring your own phone, you would in fact be paying less since you wouldn't be paying the phone related fees and just the service fees. Clearly, there's a difference.

That is how they pitch it but I would argue it is all relative. Tmobile has always been cheaper on rate plans than the big two. Just because they advertise a "cheaper price" without a phone doesn't really mean much. A service plan is just that a service plan no matter the cost. I can argue that with tmobile the cost of the service is always the same it is just that your bill will be higher if you buy a phone. The cost of the service does not go down you just aren't paying that fee anymore.
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,390
19,458
That is how they pitch it but I would argue it is all relative. Tmobile has always been cheaper on rate plans than the big two. Just because they advertise a "cheaper price" without a phone doesn't really mean much. A service plan is just that a service plan no matter the cost. I can argue that with tmobile the cost of the service is always the same it is just that your bill will be higher if you buy a phone. The cost of the service does not go down you just aren't paying that fee anymore.
Is that actually the case though?

As for comparison to how other carriers do it--the monthly cost is the same for someone who got a subsidized phone and is still within their contract, as it is for someone who got a subsidized phone and finished their contract, as it is for someone who brings their own phone.

From the get-go now that's not the same when it comes to T-mobile, since the monthly price someone pays with a subsidized phone is higher than the monthly price someone pays after paying off that phone or coming in with their own phone.

Seems like taking a person with their own phone or one who gets a free/cheap phone from T-Mobile that's a monthly difference they would actually see, while there would be no difference they would see with another carrier.
 

chalmers4three

macrumors member
Jul 15, 2012
84
16
Is that actually the case though?

As for comparison to how other carriers do it--the monthly cost is the same for someone who got a subsidized phone and is still within their contract, as it is for someone who got a subsidized phone and finished their contract, as it is for someone who brings their own phone.

From the get-go now that's not the same when it comes to T-mobile, since the monthly price someone pays with a subsidized phone is higher than the monthly price someone pays after paying off that phone or coming in with their own phone.

Seems like taking a person with their own phone or one who gets a free/cheap phone from T-Mobile that's a monthly difference they would actually see, while there would be no difference they would see with another carrier.

You keep saying it but I don't think you see it......in both cases with both carriers the SERVICE PLAN is the same. You make it sound like my carrier charges an additional "phone fee" regardless of a contract or not. My service plan is not higher because of a phone just like tmobiles is not low because of a phone.

I look at the phone fee like an optional feature on top of the service plan. My bill would go down if I removed insurance but my plan would still be the same price. When you pay off the phone your bill goes down but your plan is the same price and it would be the same price if you provided your own phone.
 

Rayfire

macrumors 68030
Aug 25, 2008
2,579
148
PNW
I'm pretty sure this was lobby money from Verizon and AT&T at work. The uncarrier campaign sure must have been hurting sales. There isn't a single person who thought you could sign up with T-Mobile and cancel the next day with a free iPhone like this AG is suggesting.

There is no contract with the wireless service. The phone isn't free. Everyone already knew that but of course this wasn't ever about "protecting the consumer" it was about protecting the big duopoly we have going on here in the U.S.

Case in point, this buffoon was no where in sight with AT&T reneging on its "unlimited" contract, blocking FaceTime for a long time, and all sorts of other real chances to protect the consumer. Of course he'll come out swinging for the AT&T lobbyists lining his pockets though.

This sums it up.

/thread
 
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