Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Teardown of Retina MacBook Pro Finds Low Repairability with Custom Components
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
There are plenty, but not for run of the mill machines like a MBP. There is AppleCare+ on the Apple side, and many Panasonic and Dell Toughbooks have warranties that cover accidental damage.
Personally, I'd LOVE to pay $400 for AppleCare+ for laptops in that price range.
A few years back I bought a dozen Core 2 Duo bare CPUs to upgrade our Core Duo Latitudes and ThinkPads to 64-bit.
Accidental damage is usually considered to be different than wear and tear for warranties (and most insurance policies, which are what most of the 'extended warranty plans you get in stores really are).
I hadn't thought of the Toughbooks, which have mfg warranties which cover an *amazing* range of events compared to most, but they also come at the expense of lower specs and higher prices compared to most as well. Those things are built like tanks, though.
----------
Socketed CPUs in laptops are an exception rather than the rule. This is even more true when you move out of the 'desktop replacement' category, which can 'weigh in' at almost 2" thick, and upwards of 10 pounds even today.
True about that, you did say wear and tear as opposed to "I dropped my coffee in my laptop."
My Ford Focus has a tire warranty that covers accidental damage, but not basic wear on the tires from me driving them. When they start to go bald, I may just drive through a construction site and pick up a few nails.
The Toughbooks are like the RMBP, in that it gives users a very specific set of features at the expense of something else. People that think the 17 MBP was heavy are completely ignorant to how heavy a laptop can really get and a Panasonic 14" toughbook is HEAVY.
You can however, chip concrete if you drop it.
Dell and Lenovo's accidental damage warranties apply to all of the machines, not just ruggedized ones.
And, you can get on-site support, Apple only does depot or in-store. Looking at a Precision M4600 (the machine that, if it had a 2560x1440, 2732x1536, or 2880x1620 IPS display, I'd be getting instead), the standard warranty is 3 years on-site (but with calling India, $159 more to get a 24/7 US call center instead), and it's $169 to add accidental damage. And they do 4 and 5 year options. Granted, the battery warranty is separate from that (1 year, with options to extend to 2 or 3 years), but still...
Oh, and most laptop manufacturers don't treat opening the case and putting someone else's SSD in as a warranty voider, unless that SSD damaged the motherboard. They just won't cover the SSD. Actually, I suspect there'd be a good Magnusson-Moss case if someone replaces the SSD, and then brings it in for service and gets their claim for an unrelated failure denied:
15 USC 2302(c) said:
In what way was I rationalizing anything? Are you sure you read what I wrote?
I wasn't even really voicing any opinion of the computer itself. I can't afford one, so whatever I may think of it is not particularly relevant
Yeah, socketed CPUs make motherboard replacement more bearable, but they are decidedly less common. I can't really think of any Apple mobile devices that use socketed processors. The same goes for the soldered GPU vs one on an MXM.
And I totally agree with the RAM slot failure point. I tend to see that and (sometimes subtle) issues caused by the memory controller not totally loving the installed modules for whatever reasonanother problem that is avoided by the MBA/MBPR design.
My point was more that even with the 16GB upgrade, the RAM is less than 20% of the BOM cost of the motherboard, and is highly unlikely to fail before other components do unless damaged by ESD. If failed DRAM chips end up being the Achilles heal of the MBPR design, I'm guessing Apple will be doing plenty of no-charge out of warranty repairs anyway.
The annoying thing for long-term durability (for laptops in general, far from just the MBPR) is, GPUs are actually a worse failure point than CPUs (my ThinkPad has the infamous G86, just in Quadro form instead of GeForce form), and GPUs are usually only slotted on gaming laptops and a few workstations, whereas in the Windows world, almost every 14" and up business laptop is socketed CPU.
We might still be tinkering with our '74 BMWs or '91 Quadras (!) in 2035, but the geeks of 2035 will probably also be tinkering on their 2012 rMBP using their desktop nanoscale CNC solder mills while joking how anyone ever used such a giant computer.
Meanwhile in 2035 geeks on Mac Rumors will be raging on how we can't upgrade our OS-M neural nanoimplants; Apple doesn't care about the pro market!
This is what you get when you wish for thinness.
I personally hate it.
Remove the superdrive, add the bigger battery & retina display and I'll be having that[/t] MBP thank you very much.
I personally hate it.
Remove the superdrive, add the bigger battery & retina display and I'll be having that[/t] MBP thank you very much.
Oddly enough, there are times when this can be played to the consumer's advantage. I've seen Apple replace a motherboard on an out of warranty MBP due to a failed NVIDIA GPU with no questions asked. The motherboard also had a broken keyboard/trackpad cable connector resulting from an impact which rendered those devices unusable. The cost to repair was something like $850 until the GPU died, and then it was suddenly free.
Isn't the same true of a rMBP or any other super tightly built electronic (like a DSLR)? Say I have an rMBP, and my "Check Engine" comes on. I'm obviously not going to throw the notebook away and buy a new one - that's not a valid premise. I'd take it into the shop just like I'd take my 2012 Mazda into a shop.
And the difference in my case is, that 2012 Mazda still is rather far from a black box. Think of it like a modern Windows business laptop, or maybe the old MBP - everything is serviceable, but it can be crammed in there sometimes.
So, when the CEL lights, I'd just plug in an OBD-II scanner, get the code, figure out what caused the code, and order the part to replace it. The ONE PART, not the entire engine.
Also, dettachable RAM is always a source of hardware issues as contacts aren't always perfectly fit.
I like the display but I'm my opinion they handicapped the device by limiting RAM upgrades. Soldering memory as permanent was wasteful to the potential in the rest of the components in my opinion. Everyone knows that estimated need for more RAM capacity never gets done right. I wouldn't be surprised that 32GB and 64GB 1866mhz memory will be the norm before long and you won't even get through a apple care warranty before all the professionals out there will be dealing with memory limitations. $2000+ for a professional grade replacement shouldn't have to be considered that soon. I think the potential benefits of memory, CPU and video card sockets on a motherboard is something to consider and far out weighs the failure risks. I would take a little thicker laptop to have that option and know I will have solid performance later. Hopefully they will do something about that. I would like to see a redo on the 17 inch model they pulled with a retina display, that they would leave the doors open and make it even easier for performance upgrades. Not everyone cares much about only making it thiner.
You're asking for compact socket designs for 1.6Ghz data lines in a confined space. Yeah, it's just wires to the average person. But when you consider that each of those 100s of wires is an antenna and that it matters how long each is and whether or not the oxide layer that forms on the contact is going to cause too much resistance for a reliable data latch...... you're asking for a lot. Oh, and with the small amount of give they need to have, what about the fact that a thin laptop is more likely to have a certain amount of flex. So that if you moved the laptop while it's on, you might momentarily lose contact on a few pins of ram.
Yes. They could have engineered a socket. It would have taken them a few more years just for the socket because off the shelf sockets are too thick. (by the way, have you noticed that no matter if it's a mac or pc, the ram sockets are pretty much exactly the same on pretty much every machine? know why? Because they take too freakin long to engineer on their own so everybody gets the same ones.)
On to your second point: Glue. Why is glue considered poor design? Consider the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution's Carbon Fiber roof. Not only is it glued on, carbon fiber panels themselves are literally glue-soaked fabric. It takes less space than screws and rivets and modern adhesives are strong enough (when properly matched) to hold cars together.
However in the very reversed way (screen quality and thickness) reasons were similar in lack of real, rather than perceived, values that the M9 much like the MBPR did not deserve my moola. Perhaps Apple should have redesigned the Leica and Leica built the MBPR?
Reality check here. Other laptops that are as thin, have been able to manage offering a product that was upgradeable. Imagine that.
I didn't know they still came with socketed cpus. That's pretty cool though. I am going to watch these new ones for a generation or two. I do hope these have been tested for reliability given how many things are stuck to the board now.
DSLRs are not this tightly integrated. Okay a cmos or ccd failure could be incredibly expensive. The only issue here is long term performance from batteries and ssds. These are components with inherently higher failure rates, and they're now soldered in. CPU failures aren't typically an issue. They just make logic board replacements more expensive if something else fails.
If their testing procedure is impeccable, it's less of an issue. I just hope they don't completely remove upgrade options from things like ram for those who can use as much as possible.
I like the display but I'm my opinion they handicapped the device by limiting RAM upgrades. Soldering memory as permanent was wasteful to the potential in the rest of the components in my opinion. Everyone knows that estimated need for more RAM capacity never gets done right. I wouldn't be surprised that 32GB and 64GB 1866mhz memory will be the norm before long and you won't even get through a apple care warranty before all the professionals out there will be dealing with memory limitations. $2000+ for a professional grade replacement shouldn't have to be considered that soon. I think the potential benefits of memory, CPU and video card sockets on a motherboard is something to consider and far out weighs the failure risks. I would take a little thicker laptop to have that option and know I will have solid performance later. Hopefully they will do something about that. I would like to see a redo on the 17 inch model they pulled with a retina display, that they would leave the doors open and make it even easier for performance upgrades. Not everyone cares much about only making it thiner.
very well said.
I cant believe people here is actually defending or even praising the soldered RAM implementation by Apple, if this is done by a PC laptop manufacturer, I'd imagine there will be plenty threads about how "retarded" those companies are in going with that direction. Right now, rMBP is just a disposable device with a huge price tag.
Actually, I can't believe the opposite. Pretend the 8 GB model doesn't exist. Next, decide if the laptop is worth the cost, maxed out at 16 GB. if not, don't buy it. But that doesn't make it "disposable".
There are upsides and downsides to the soldered RAM implementation, even disregarding the thickness.
We all know the downsides, and I agree that they outweigh the upsides, but here's the upsides that I can think of:
PCB layout - the board doesn't have to be designed around the slots, only the chips
Thickness - although this allegedly is a non-issue, someone said there's room for slots in the current thickness
Reliability - interconnects are a huge enemy of reliability, and this eliminates two SODIMM slots. Also, Apple can guarantee that chips that definitely work are used, rather than the random issues that third-party chips can sometimes give. (Datasheets aren't always perfect. The Apple-1 and II are perfect examples of this, they use tons of off-datasheet behaviors of chips. And then, you try replacing chips with third-party or updated versions, and stuff doesn't work right. Same thing can happen today.)
Power - in two ways, actually. First, someone mentioned the slight voltage drop of the SODIMM slot contacts, which requires ever so slightly more power to overcome. Second, although this CAN be a non-issue... Apple's specced low-voltage DDR3, and if you give people slots, they'll shove in full-voltage stuff. Shouldn't cause any damage, but it'll reduce battery life especially in sleep mode.
Cost - Unfortunately, Apple isn't passing this one on to us, but the chips themselves, in the quantities that Apple buys, are cheaper than SODIMMs and slots. It's an advantage in an engineering sense, but in practice, it's not an advantage for us.
Here's from the online service manual for a Dell E5420, a current model. Section called "Removing the processor".
(click to enlarge)
http://support.dell.com/support/edo...UID-28032620-211D-4B52-87F9-8A142402081A.html