Teardown of Retina MacBook Pro Finds Low Repairability with Custom Components

djtopcat said:
Lifelong MAC owner here. My first was a Macintosh back in the 80s! I really fear that without Steve Jobs direction this company is going to see an eventual downfall.
He was the genius that saved them from complete oblivion in the 90s.
Most knowledgable Apple people know that the Apple laptop market is a very small percentage of their actual profits.
The people that buy these admittedly overpriced machines made in China, do not care if the RAM is soldered in etc etc. The average consumer cannot afford to spend $3k+ on a laptop! FACT
That is why the cheaper pc machines will always dominate the laptop and desktop market. I really don't think Apple cares, it's an ego thing.
Apple builds visually appealing,high performance machines for a very select loyal market. Either longtime Apple only owners, or people that create music,artists etc. I'm a remixer and a working dj and MACs are the best for that.

I do think they made a big mistake eliminating the semi affordable classic Macbook though, especially for students. That was a great machine.
What Apple should really concerned about is not innovation, it's competitors now closing the gap on the things that always made Apple one step ahead of the game. Android vs Ios. Iphone vs Samsung's new Galaxy. Air vs Lenovo-Ultrabook. OSX vs Windows 8. :)
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The old white MacBook's price point has been replaced by the base MacBook Air for some time.
 
bbeagle said:
You can either have something small, or something proprietary. Not both.
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We all know the real reason why apple has made the mbps proprietary.
It's the same reason as for the app store.
They don't want you buying cheaper components from others and want to force you into their closed systems.
Everything has been going downhill since Lion.
One of the reasons that people say they like macs is for the OSX, but since Lion, even the OS has been dumbed down and headed into the ios sphere.
Everything after Snow Leopard has been headed in the wrong direction if you aren't an ios gadget user.
 
Abazigal said:
I am reminded of my colleague, who bought a 15" MBP last year without applecare, deeming it redundant. His reasoning was "I have faith in Apple's products. Usually, if the computer has defects, they would show up within the 1st year."

It seems more of a bold statement. "You won't need to open up your laptop ever and fiddle with the parts inside because we are confident of our build quality and that it will not break down.":)
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That's exactly what I recommend - if you have any problems within the first year, buy AppleCare because you are more likely to have more problems. No problems in the first year, it is more likely that the computer will go on working fine. Plus, the three components most likely to break (hard drive, optical drive, battery) are either easily replaced or cheaper to fix than AppleCare.


Luis Ortega said:
We all know the real reason why apple has made the mbps proprietary.
It's the same reason as for the app store.
They don't want you buying cheaper components from others and want to force you into their closed systems.
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Since I disagree with you, your statement "we all know" is factually wrong. And the reason you give is also wrong; the MPBR has more proprietary components because Apple tried to fit the electronics into the smallest possible space, producing a computer that is thinner while having a much bigger battery than the original 15" MBP, and you can only do that with specifically designed components.
 
I understand the anger about the rm but who really cares about the hard drive. You can always just buy an external hard drive for more space. Heck now days you can even buy external ssds. Macbook pros have usb 3.0 now too so you can use them.
 
Imbecile engineering, greed, environmental a-holiness

I often think for the green peace to be a bunch of hippies. US is largely over regulated and EPA is not my close friend. This however, what Apple is doing and diligently continues to get worse at, should call for a nice hefty citation and an immediate recall, at least in the West where some may care.

It could just as well be all inserted in translucent resin for an even "cooler" look, so kids somewhere in Asia would be spared the effort of trying to prong the little aluminum from this piece of toxic crap and be able to dump the whole thing somewhere between the West Coast and China.

You dumb, greedy geeks up north, how difficult is it to make a bracket with few screws? Damn it, I just hope they get slapped, at least in the US by the EPA, so hard, that in two months all of you snobs (current customers) will get a better engineered replacement via FedEx at your doorstep.

And you Timmie boy, get on CNN and apologize now.

example: BMW recycling program
 
djtopcat said:
Lifelong MAC owner here. My first was a Macintosh back in the 80s! I really fear that without Steve Jobs direction this company is going to see an eventual downfall.
He was the genius that saved them from complete oblivion in the 90s.
Most knowledgable Apple people know that the Apple laptop market is a very small percentage of their actual profits.
The people that buy these admittedly overpriced machines made in China, do not care if the RAM is soldered in etc etc. The average consumer cannot afford to spend $3k+ on a laptop! FACT
That is why the cheaper pc machines will always dominate the laptop and desktop market. I really don't think Apple cares, it's an ego thing.
Apple builds visually appealing,high performance machines for a very select loyal market. Either longtime Apple only owners, or people that create music,artists etc. I'm a remixer and a working dj and MACs are the best for that.

I do think they made a big mistake eliminating the semi affordable classic Macbook though, especially for students. That was a great machine.
What Apple should really concerned about is not innovation, it's competitors now closing the gap on the things that always made Apple one step ahead of the game. Android vs Ios. Iphone vs Samsung's new Galaxy. Air vs Lenovo-Ultrabook. OSX vs Windows 8. :)
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Completely agree!

While the Retina machines are quite simply stunning, I won't be buying one.

As far as I can see Apple has halved the operational life span of these machines (if used for demanding work) while significantly increasing the price. Making a purchase even harder to justify.

My original core duo mac book pro has lasted me 6 years. I’m pretty sure this is because I’ve had the ability to upgrade ram, disks and replace broken components (albeit only the once!).

My two main concerns with the new machines are:

  1. Ram soldered to the motherboard means extra initial outlay for something that I don’t need yet! I would rather buy this upgrade two years down the line when applications demand it and the upgrade is cheaper. In three/four year’s time I will no doubt need 32Gb ram which will not be possible (16Gb SODIMMS will no doubt be available then).
  2. With now so many components fixed to the motherboard repair options will be pretty much non-existent, therefore AppleCare is an absolute must! But even with AppleCare if anything breaks after 3 years that’s it! This type of construction is great on an iPhone (life span 2 years, based on a 24 month contract) but not on a professional laptop.

As a side note… reading these forums prior to the launch most if not all the questions speculation we’re around what components would be in the new machines. I haven’t read a single post from someone asking for a thinner laptop? Is this a fair reflection of what Mackbook pro users want?

I don’t think these machines are aimed at users with traditional pro needs – pretty sure Apple must have a new user group in mind?
 
One more battery note. Instead of popping one in by yourself, now you will have to "conveniently" lend your computer to Apple for a week signing a data loss liability waiver. Be a real pro, back all up and plan a short vacation. If you are such a pro user, also remove all sensitive data, wait for repair and reinstall. Perfect!
 
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As a side note… reading these forums prior to the launch most if not all the questions speculation we’re around what components would be in the new machines. I haven’t read a single post from someone asking for a thinner laptop? Is this a fair reflection of what Mackbook pro users want?

I don’t think these machines are aimed at users with traditional pro needs – pretty sure Apple must have a new user group in mind?
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I am pretty sure they are aimed at traditional pro users. It would be like the case of the ipad all over again. Nobody thought they would need one (just go to cnet and read the comments in the ipad2010 articles), but then they use it, proceed to fall in love with it and wonder how they ever survived without it. :D

The only way Apple can compete while still keeping its high margins is for it to create a new class of computer, use its slick marketing to make you think you want it, and then mac users slowly rationalise to themselves how they can work around its shortcomings.

Sorry, so it has no ethernet, no kensington lock, no ODD, costs a bomb and you can't upgrade it yourself ever or replace spoilt parts. Well, too bad, you want to use the latest Apple offering, you will have to suck up these limitations, and you know more than even people are more than willing to do just that. :)
 
keelio said:
To further stretch the car analogy, I have a 1974 BMW 2002 and a 2011 Mazda3.

Leaning under the hood of the bimmer, there is enough room for me to almost touch the ground reaching around the radiator/fan. You can swap in different radiators, carbs, brakesets, headers, pretty easily. I have a 320 radiator, 5 series brakes, have moved the battery to the trunk, Weber carb, bunch of other stuff. Car nerd geek love - however I need to spend time under the hood to keep things purring and if I don't my bimmer will leave me stranded on the side of the road.

My Mazda is a black box under the hood. Other than oil changes and fluids, I would want to touch anything there. Things are packed in super tight. However, the machines moves beautifully and I have no need to mess with it. Blissful reliable ignorance. I'm sure fancier cars (I'd call the rMBP closer to an M3) have even tighter black boxes under the hood.
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I like this car analogy, because i like to tinker with old cars, and old computers. The 74 BMW is analogous to a 1991 Quadra 700. Loads of room inside, take the thing apart, put a new disk in, add RAM, blow out the dust and its up and running. Take the floppy drive apart and clean out the crud, and it just keeps working.

However, the "black box" Mazda and new Mac means that in a few years there will be none of them left. there will be no way to fix them.

The future is not looking good for collectors. Doubtless in 2035 we'll still be tinkering with our '74 BMWs and '91 Quadras, but 2012 Mazdas and Macs will be completely extinct.
 
Well, it looks like the left side of the notebook will catch on fire, so only my left leg gets torched.

And non-replaceable RAM is pretty ****** IMO. Same goes with the SSD, but we all know that someone will come up with one that works (OWC, etc).

Not like I have time to tear apart my laptop anyways, though.
 
Not necessary

I don't really care if I can fiddle around in any device any more. After two years they are technically obsolete anyway, and it is better to buy a brand new one then.

As to the repair capability:
I have never encountered a damage on any Apple device that was not covered by the 1-year guarantee or an exchange/repair program.

It is not like in the eightys where one bought a desktop computer for $3000 with 16K ram and an upgrade to 64K cost another $1000, so people had to find ways to get cheaper modules and open the device to make it usable.

Computers are like any other appliances. Nobody wants to upgrade his fridge or toaster, or even tv set. People buy what they want, and after some time new ones when they want better technology.
 
Abazigal said:
I am pretty sure they are aimed at traditional pro users. It would be like the case of the ipad all over again. Nobody thought they would need one (just go to cnet and read the comments in the ipad2010 articles), but then they use it, proceed to fall in love with it and wonder how they ever survived without it.
Good point but the ipad didn't have an existing user base. It was a new product altogether.

Abazigal said:
Sorry, so it has no ethernet, no kensington lock, no ODD, costs a bomb and you can't upgrade it yourself ever or replace spoilt parts. Well, too bad, you want to use the latest Apple offering, you will have to suck up these limitations, and you know more than even people are more than willing to do just that.
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Not great though! I don't want to use the latest offering just because its made by Apple. I chose the Mac platform sometime ago as it met my specific needs, soon I'll have to upgrade but not through choice! Would rather not have to replace all my software and learn a new operating system.

----------
chrimux said:
Computers are like any other appliances. Nobody wants to upgrade his fridge or toaster, or even tv set. People buy what they want, and after some time new ones when they want better technology.
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Not sure I agree with this. A computer has numerous applications some off which will be invented during a computers operational lifespan. These household appliances only serve one function.
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Here's what'll happen, really.

Most current users will stick with the Mac platform because, despite the drawbacks, it does still meet their needs the best. Many will find ugly workarounds for the drawbacks. Apple profits big here.

Some people will adopt the Mac platform because of its advantages, despite the drawbacks. I'm in this category, although I may end up running Windows to avoid getting locked into the OS X ecosystem (there's only one advantage that I'm going after, and hopefully it gets copied by more traditional mobile workstations), as Windows will meet my needs just fine. I'll find ugly workarounds for the hardware drawbacks. Apple also profits big here.

Some will move to Wintel machines because the Mac platform's drawbacks are too high. They may hackintosh those machines, if they're locked into the OS X ecosystem. This is where Apple doesn't profit, and they're betting that few enough people will do this.
 
jacobtaylor1987 said:
If you want to take your computer apart and customise it, buy a PC.
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If you want to take a computer apart and customize it start by not purchasing a laptop. That said, upgradability and repairability of a laptop are worthy discussion points and we should always hope for features like this from Apple. I just think some of the opinions expressed about this new laptop are overblown or overlook greater priorities (or are just flat out wrong such as those that believe the SSD will not be upgradeable or swappable).
 
Those defending Apple not allowing users to upgrade/fix their laptops is a fanboy defined. It's completely indefensible.

I was waiting for this new release, because of this I'll pass and look elsewhere.
 
daniel-b said:
I like this car analogy, because i like to tinker with old cars, and old computers. The 74 BMW is analogous to a 1991 Quadra 700. Loads of room inside, take the thing apart, put a new disk in, add RAM, blow out the dust and its up and running. Take the floppy drive apart and clean out the crud, and it just keeps working.

However, the "black box" Mazda and new Mac means that in a few years there will be none of them left. there will be no way to fix them.

The future is not looking good for collectors. Doubtless in 2035 we'll still be tinkering with our '74 BMWs and '91 Quadras, but 2012 Mazdas and Macs will be completely extinct.
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This is just one example of how most of you are trying to rationalize the demise of user changeable items like the HD and RAM. In an Air it makes sense, it is what it is - in a PRO machine, it is complete absurdity. My 17" came with 4GB of RAM. I then got 8GB - shortly after I found a deal for 16GB for $100 so I jumped on it. When 16GB sticks come down in price I will grab 32GB (I believe that is the limit for this machine despite what Apple says). I swapped my HD a few times already, finally to an SSD. I can upgrade that when larger ones that are more affordable come out.

You guys can try to spin this any way you want, you will never convince those of us who think PRO machines should have interchangeable RAM and storage.
 
gnasher729 said:
Since I disagree with you, your statement "we all know" is factually wrong. And the reason you give is also wrong; the MPBR has more proprietary components because Apple tried to fit the electronics into the smallest possible space, producing a computer that is thinner while having a much bigger battery than the original 15" MBP, and you can only do that with specifically designed components.
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Well, I don't think it's a conspiracy theory, but we do know that Steve Jobs was always against having slots and configurable options on his computers. It's plain as day in his biography. If it was up to him you'd have a sealed box with as few ports as possible. That's coming to fruition now.

daniel-b said:
I like this car analogy, because i like to tinker with old cars, and old computers. The 74 BMW is analogous to a 1991 Quadra 700. Loads of room inside, take the thing apart, put a new disk in, add RAM, blow out the dust and its up and running. Take the floppy drive apart and clean out the crud, and it just keeps working.
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The flaw in the 2012 Mazda analogy is that even that "black box" of an engine can still be serviced by qualified personnel. You don't have to throw away the entire car and buy a new Mazda when your "check engine" light comes on.
 
I would not spend £1,799 on a laptop if i thought i would need to be upgrading it within the next 3 year, and by then we'll probably be due our 2nd if not 3rd revision of the retina mbp.. and most likely we'll all want it and be ready to sell on and upgrade.

I know it's nice to have the option, but is it that much of an issue, really?
 
notjustjay said:
The flaw in the 2012 Mazda analogy is that even that "black box" of an engine can still be serviced by qualified personnel. You don't have to throw away the entire car and buy a new Mazda when your "check engine" light comes on.
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I highly doubt anyone will be "throwing away" a MBPR any time soon. They are also serviceable by qualified personnel. iFixit found "low repairability" because they are in the business of selling tools, parts and training guides to unqualified personnel.

The car analogy is very valid. People tweak with cars as much as they ever did, despite the fact that manufacturers move increasingly towards modularization. I'm sure we'll see YouTube guides for component level repairs of the MBPR in due time. There will always be some people who feel comfortable replacing capacitors on their motherboards or performing a solder reflow on their GPUs rather than just junking the whole machine.

There are really only three components in the MBPR expensive enough that out of warranty failure would make one consider not repairing it: the screen (probably a $900 part), the motherboard, and the SSD if you get the 512 or 768 GB versions. Replacement SSD modules will no doubt become user replaceable and increasingly affordable as time goes on, which leaves you with motherboard or screen failure being the only killers. I'm not sure there are any mobile PCs where paying out of pocket for a motherboard replacement is easy to rationalize, so really the only difference in the long run for servicing the MBPR versus any other laptop is right in the name—the retina display. You break that screen and you're out a geezle.
 
repoman27 said:
I'm not sure there are any mobile PCs where paying out of pocket for a motherboard replacement is easy to rationalize, so really the only difference in the long run for servicing the MBPR versus any other laptop is right in the name—the retina display. You break that screen and you're out a geezle.
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Except for the RAM and CPU (although my understanding is that Apple's been using soldered CPUs for a while now?) being part of the motherboard. So, one of those failing requires a motherboard replacement.

That said, this does eliminate RAM *slot* failures, which are more common than you might think.
 
bhtooefr said:
Except for the RAM and CPU (although my understanding is that Apple's been using soldered CPUs for a while now?) being part of the motherboard. So, one of those failing requires a motherboard replacement.

That said, this does eliminate RAM *slot* failures, which are more common than you might think.
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I agree, and I always thought the CPU was soldered onto the MB on all laptops.

Personally, I hate that the RAM is soldered on, but you can pretty much expect to be without your machine for a week even if you take it in for a free HDD repair or a top case repair.

My only real gripe is that I have to get the 16GB of RAM up front instead of upgrading on my own time or with leftover DIMMs.
 
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