Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
TenFourFox 38 builds…get ready!
- Thread starter eyoungren
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I have an ibook G4 12" 1,33GHz with 1,5GB RAM and a faster HDD than stock and all the videos posted play stop motions, just a few are more watchable, where it still looks somewhat fluent, with smaller less noticable hickups. Fans were blowing. I am still on Version 31.8 since I had big problems with some TFFx versions (I think it was thse that ended with .5 and .7 - 31.8 is slow, but not as freakin slow as .5 or .7 was that would give freezes and lockups several times) and I didn't want to get in new trouble with another update and was fine with the trouble I have now.
I also have no-script and Adguard 2.0.6 (instead of Adblock Plus) installed, so I don't know...
I'll try 38.2 later.
Edit: great... 38.2 is even more slide-show than 31.8, and fan kicks in immedeately when klicking start, now.
Last edited:
Ah, this is good to know, if I understand the meaning correctly. Over at tenderapp they said, they can't reproduce my problems and everything is fine with 31.5 and 31.7. I found only one user having the same probolem at tenderapp forum. I found 3 at cubeuser.de and a few here. At least I am happy, that it is probably not only my goofiness alone, but really a problem with TFFx.
tevion5
macrumors 68000
Why exactly do you despise WebKit so much and suggest TFF instead? I have both installed on my Quad, but I like the way WebKit just integrates into the inbuilt Safari and feels nice and natural. Also, I find TFF has more issues playing YouTube videos than WebKit. TFF won't even let me use 720p, but perhaps this is something I can adjust?
I despise it because I spend a lot of time web browsing and the customization options are almost next to nothing.
With Safari/Webkit there is no Fastdial, there is no All In One Sidebar, there is no NoScript, no UserAgent Switcher, no RequestPolicy, no ability to apply a theme (FT DeepDark). On and on.
Sure, Safari has plugins and there's a Top Sites page (you don't get to pick what's on it) and some other options. But I've found that the more you add, the slower it gets.
And the single biggest thing that bugs me about Safari/Webkit is that 99% of the time it will never completely load a web page. Oh, it tells you it's loaded 'X' items, but then it tacks on more after that. And then more. And then gets stuck at loading the last bit. Or. It simply beachballs. On everything. Or almost anyway.
I do use it for specific things, mainly browsing any video I find online. That it's generally useful for. I don't use T4Fx for video. It's always been crap on that and since Kaiser disabled plugins (Flash) I've never pursued any video tweaking options.
But…yeah, that's why I hate Safari/Webkit.
OK, I have to come back to an old topic...
I have previously noted, that with some generations of T4Fx I (and as it seems only just a few other members) had slow downs with in the end heating up, fans blowing and beach balling until finally locking up. Doing about:memory GC didn't help there.
With the latest version of T4Fx I felt "well, it is slow, but at least it doesn't lock up and heat up".
Today I experienced, that I just had not been long enough on the Internet to encounter the old symptoms. I used the browser for some hours, then I had three taps open and left the browser open and walked away. About another 3 hours later I cam back and wanted to surf and it started beach balling from time to time and more and more until it was unuseable.
So, I will go back to my strategy of being prepared and preventively doing some work and then quit the whole app and open it again and work on. I know, I am somewhat the only one having problems with T4Fx, but I just wanted to add it.
I find it more interesting, that it gets not locking up because of maybe loading to much stuff over time (as if like it the cahce/memory was never deleted and it litters), but instead it even locks up after some hours even, if I DO NOTHING.
Still I use T4Fx as my main browser because of the things I have personalised and other stuff, also the only browser save enough for online banking on a PowerPC.
I use Safari and OmniWeb for some videos (others I play in T4Fx) and for looking up things very quickly, when I don't want to wait a lifetime for T4Fx opening. However with Safari/Omniweb sometime sites don't display right or parts are missing and I have to try T4Fx with the same site, which usually works (though I neverhave sites beachballing on me with the Webkits, they just stop loading and the browser is still responsive).
I have previously noted, that with some generations of T4Fx I (and as it seems only just a few other members) had slow downs with in the end heating up, fans blowing and beach balling until finally locking up. Doing about:memory GC didn't help there.
With the latest version of T4Fx I felt "well, it is slow, but at least it doesn't lock up and heat up".
Today I experienced, that I just had not been long enough on the Internet to encounter the old symptoms. I used the browser for some hours, then I had three taps open and left the browser open and walked away. About another 3 hours later I cam back and wanted to surf and it started beach balling from time to time and more and more until it was unuseable.
So, I will go back to my strategy of being prepared and preventively doing some work and then quit the whole app and open it again and work on. I know, I am somewhat the only one having problems with T4Fx, but I just wanted to add it.
I find it more interesting, that it gets not locking up because of maybe loading to much stuff over time (as if like it the cahce/memory was never deleted and it litters), but instead it even locks up after some hours even, if I DO NOTHING.
Still I use T4Fx as my main browser because of the things I have personalised and other stuff, also the only browser save enough for online banking on a PowerPC.
I use Safari and OmniWeb for some videos (others I play in T4Fx) and for looking up things very quickly, when I don't want to wait a lifetime for T4Fx opening. However with Safari/Omniweb sometime sites don't display right or parts are missing and I have to try T4Fx with the same site, which usually works (though I neverhave sites beachballing on me with the Webkits, they just stop loading and the browser is still responsive).
Altemose
macrumors G3
In regards to your first point, I would try going ahead and disabling Adguard and replacing it with Bluhell Firewall. I have not seen any specific performance data on Adguard, but I have seen in multiple reports and from user experience the Bluhell is by far the lightest and fastest ad-blocker you can use on TenFourFox and Firefox alike. It is possible, that due to the critical changes that Mr. Kaiser must make to continue to support 10.4 and 10.5 that some extensions may misbehave. After all, Mozilla does not support anything lower than 10.6. With that being said, it may be one of your extensions causing this problem, and if you give Bluhell a shot you can at least rule your ad-blocker out.
In terms of video, HTML5 is getting heavier and heavier by the day. While it is leaps and bounds better than Flash, I would recommend for consistent YouTube and streaming video to go over to my guide for streaming video on Leopard WebKit. That will likely be the best solution at this time in regards to streaming video.
It seems that if Kaiser makes the next ESR it will be the last one for TenFourFox to have source parity with Firefox.
Electrolysis, which is the replacement for Australis will not be implemented.
Keep in mind that Australis was the big hill we just climbed for TenFourFox 24 where the interface changed. We won't be climbing any more hills, particularly if Mozilla keeps to it's plans for signing addons.
I already do not like the fact that on the latest versions of Firefox on Intel Mac, Mozilla installs some addons into the system itself where, if you don't know how to get them out, it becomes impossible to remove/disable them. If you do know how, it's an extra step and a real PITA.
Here's hoping that once T4Fx diverges from source parity, Kaiser can direct his attention to coding stuff that specifically benefits PowerPC instead of having to spend most of his time just on making the browser comparable to Firefox.
We aren't dead yet, but the future looks dim for PowerPC web browsing - at least in the manner we are all accustomed to it currently.
http://tenfourfox.blogspot.com/2015/08/mozillas-future-footgun-add-on-policy.html
Electrolysis, which is the replacement for Australis will not be implemented.
Keep in mind that Australis was the big hill we just climbed for TenFourFox 24 where the interface changed. We won't be climbing any more hills, particularly if Mozilla keeps to it's plans for signing addons.
I already do not like the fact that on the latest versions of Firefox on Intel Mac, Mozilla installs some addons into the system itself where, if you don't know how to get them out, it becomes impossible to remove/disable them. If you do know how, it's an extra step and a real PITA.
Here's hoping that once T4Fx diverges from source parity, Kaiser can direct his attention to coding stuff that specifically benefits PowerPC instead of having to spend most of his time just on making the browser comparable to Firefox.
We aren't dead yet, but the future looks dim for PowerPC web browsing - at least in the manner we are all accustomed to it currently.
http://tenfourfox.blogspot.com/2015/08/mozillas-future-footgun-add-on-policy.html
flyrod
macrumors 6502
Google always wanted to own the internet. Looks like they're nearly there.
First of all I know it is not Cameron Kaiser's fault.
RE your suggestion: the last time I had heating up, locking problems with TFFx (I think it was 24.5 or 24.7) someone named chris at Tenderapp told me to disable the adblocker and then disable all add-ons and enable them piece per piece. I even deleted all my add-ons and it did not change anything.
I did it again per your sugguestion. Disabled Adguard (back then I had ABP I think?) and installed blu hell firewall.
The interesting thing, it even blocks the news section of my email providers homepage (well they are sort of gossip anyway). Re the actual problem. It doesn't make a difference. Still massive problems. Now I even have a massive slow down right after the start. Every page takes long to load.
After seeing Safari and Omniweb not doing it as a daily driver I tested Sunrise and Seamonkey again yesterday and today. They do everything very fast and good (Seamonkey a tad slower). But it is just, the way one (I) is used to what one uses often, so I don't know, if I will really change to them and instead just cope with TFFx.
Since there are no add-ons for Sunrise, I will consider "swapping" all my stuff over to SeaMonkey and then only use TFFx for banking. And then try the next version of TFFx, if there will be any...
RE videos. I come along quite well with MacTubes, Quicktime enabler, etc. and Safari. I already saw your thread, thanks. I just was too lazy implementing it (since I do not often play online videos). I also know about the mplayer script here on the forum, but the same thing, I was to lazy. But thanks!
@ Erik
RE the end of TFFx, if I understand the article right, it also includes that add-ons will not be compatible anymore, right?
PS: I don't even know/remember, if the problems started immediately after installing 38. But on the other hand I didn't change anything else on the system etc.
Last edited:
Well, not with TenFourFox. The way I read that is that the code-signing that Mozilla will require of addon devs is not something that Cameron can make work in TenFourFox. Since that will be missing in TenFourFox, new addons or updates of existing addons won't work in the app.
None of that of course precludes using older versions of addons with an older version of TenFourFox.
Re: your issue. I have probably asked this already, so forgive me if I have, but have you tried using T4FX with a brand new profile?
It almost sounds as if your current profile is corrupt in some way.
tevion5
macrumors 68000
It's nearly Orwellian that most people's gate keeper to the Internet, is the world's largest advertising company.
If it was only in Futurama it would be a joke.
MacCubed
macrumors 68000
That advertising data is all used to Googles advantage, not too sure if they sell that data to other companies.. It truly is sad how the internet has evolved over the years, it was and still is a great source for information, but now seems to be veering towards a advertising and marketing machine. My dad is working on helping design the company that he works for's website, I always overhear him talking about data and advertising and certain pop-up messages that come up based on your history and such, it crazy how companies can just track this stuff buy just getting data... Don't get me wrong Google is a great search engine, but after reading more about it, it makes me reluctant to use it so often. Also, a lot of people don't realize how much money Google makes...
Back on topic, I really hope TFF development lives on.. Its truly great that Kaiser has the incentive to support us PPC users, even though its been almost 10 years since the switch to Intel. I guess if development sops, we are gonna have to make our own PPC browser!
That was the thinking that got us here now. We are discussing this because someone said the same thing when Firefox 4.x dropped PowerPC.
Kaiser won't stop development - it's just that at a certain point there will no longer be source parity. He should be able to match feature parity (at least for some time) and there will still be releases.
The difference is that at the moment source parity is dropped we will no longer able able to claim that TenFourFox is a fork of Firefox.
Altemose
macrumors G3
@Cox Orange I agree with eyoungren's opinion on a corrupt profile. Since Bluhell is the best adblocker I have seen in terms of performance, I cannot give any advice on the others as I do not use them any longer. As long as one pays mind to the fact that you are running a 2015 browser on at best a 2005 computer, then TenFourFox excels. That being said, you definitely are having some form of corruption going on. Does it occur on all your PowerPC Macs?
In regards to streaming video, I know QuickTime Enabler and some of the other tools are great. I do suggest you take the five minutes and give that WebKit thread I made a shot as to be honest I have not seen a better and more seamless method for online streaming video short of HTML5 in the browser.
In regards to streaming video, I know QuickTime Enabler and some of the other tools are great. I do suggest you take the five minutes and give that WebKit thread I made a shot as to be honest I have not seen a better and more seamless method for online streaming video short of HTML5 in the browser.
I remember that this was the second sugguestion on the tenderapp support forum as well. 🙂 I don't quiet remember, if I did it back then.
Deleting the browser and installing it new from the dmg, will not be setting up a new profile, right? I will also have to delete the profiles folder in "username -> library -> mozilla -> profiles", right?
If it doesn't cure it, can I just maybe copy the profiles folder to an USB stick and later put it back and it will be set up as before?
One thing is there, that makes me believe could be a problem. If I set up a new profile, I will have to install all the add-ons and extension and do the preerences I had done etc. - because otherwise it will not the same as my old profile (minus the bug), right?
Another thought, could it be, that it chokes on the fact, that I have about 30-50 bookmarks (not in the toolbar)? I guess I can't just copy the bookmarks in a file and then load it to the new profile, because if the bookmarks have a glitch, I will import the glitch as well, right?
Sorry, so many uninformed questions... 🙂
You both could well be right.
I will try on another PowerPC Mac later (I will have to update TFFx though, but that way I can see, if it comes with what I have done to it or with the version of it).
Re videos, one thing I forgot. I have 10.4 not 10.5 so I would have to use TenFourkit. Does your guide work with that, too? I could, however, always connect my external HDD with 10.5 when surfing... wonder how well that would work.
PS: typing is faster in Sunrise, too... weird (and yes I have disabled the ... what was it... in the preferences of macrumors).
Your profile is located here: Macintosh HD>Users>~username>Library>Application Support>Firefox
It's actually inside the Firefox folder, but if you remove the Firefox folder T4Fx will recreate it.
You can export your bookmarks as an HTML file beforehand and then import the HTML file in the new profile, but yes, removing the profile wipes everything.
Just move the folder to your desktop or some place safe if you want to back it up. You can put it back at any time overwriting the new profile. Keep in mind, that if it is a corrupt profile then doing this would also restore the corruption.
As far as bookmarks, that shouldn't really be an issue. I have a lot of bookmarks myself. I might suggest the Vacuum Places addon however as part of it's job is to optimize the favicons that bookmarks store.
Altemose
macrumors G3
The critical part of setting up a new profile is that usually it is an extension, add-on, or a preference causing the issue. If you get better performance on a fresh profile then you have a base line that you can tweak off of from there. Maybe I missed it earlier in the thread, but what computer are you running this on?
In regards to TenFourKit, I do not think the extensions will work but I could be wrong. I use Leopard on all of my PowerPC Macs so I do not have much experience with Tiger. I am looking for a good solution similar to what I use in Leopard WebKit but for TenFourFox, but so far have failed to find one that is as seamless as ClickToFlash or ClickToPlugin.
I use it on an ibook G4 1,33GHz last model of 2005 (1,5GB RAM, faster HDD).
Sorry, it has taken so long, till I answer. I didn't have the chance to test something on my PowerMac G4 in the meantime (we have guests and it would involve rolling out the ethernet cable through the floor and I don't find the USB-wifi stick atm).
But this evening (on my ibook) I moved the profiles folder to my desktop and started with a fresh TFFx. It seems faster and at least I get no freezes or beachballing, though still some latency. I wasn't sure, if that is just, because I wasn't surfing long enough or because it is another time of the day. So I put the profile back and started again. The difference seemed marginal, but I wasn't sure. So I removed the profiles folder again etc. I compared both "set ups" some more times. Apparently it seems as if the swapping out and back had "repaired" something on the old profile, too. But I don't know.
While I think I could call the browsing with the new profile satisfying, I am still not sure. I will try this set up now for some time and see. In the end I could try to make my profile like the old was, just to be sure and on the save site (even though that would involve some time). As you say, I could also see, if the problem start at a certain point of customization. However that does not explain, why I had problems with 24.5 and 24.7 and 38.2, but not with other version.
Oh, yes, I tried downgrading to 31.8 and that seemed to work a little better (together with the old profile!), but again I was not sure.
Long text, short conclusion, I will observe the situation a bit and then decide what to do further on.
A last question: I use an add-on "session manager" by Michael Kraft, where I can save sessions under a file name and work with them later. I have not found out yet, if I can somehow bring them to the new profile.
Edit: I mentioned, that in Sunrise typing in this forum is without lag/delax. With TFFx and the old profile I have letters disappearing with a big latency (even though I disabled the preference in this forum that is said to cause it). With my new TFFx profile typing has no delay. So that gives another hint, right?
Sorry, it has taken so long, till I answer. I didn't have the chance to test something on my PowerMac G4 in the meantime (we have guests and it would involve rolling out the ethernet cable through the floor and I don't find the USB-wifi stick atm).
But this evening (on my ibook) I moved the profiles folder to my desktop and started with a fresh TFFx. It seems faster and at least I get no freezes or beachballing, though still some latency. I wasn't sure, if that is just, because I wasn't surfing long enough or because it is another time of the day. So I put the profile back and started again. The difference seemed marginal, but I wasn't sure. So I removed the profiles folder again etc. I compared both "set ups" some more times. Apparently it seems as if the swapping out and back had "repaired" something on the old profile, too. But I don't know.
While I think I could call the browsing with the new profile satisfying, I am still not sure. I will try this set up now for some time and see. In the end I could try to make my profile like the old was, just to be sure and on the save site (even though that would involve some time). As you say, I could also see, if the problem start at a certain point of customization. However that does not explain, why I had problems with 24.5 and 24.7 and 38.2, but not with other version.
Oh, yes, I tried downgrading to 31.8 and that seemed to work a little better (together with the old profile!), but again I was not sure.
Long text, short conclusion, I will observe the situation a bit and then decide what to do further on.
A last question: I use an add-on "session manager" by Michael Kraft, where I can save sessions under a file name and work with them later. I have not found out yet, if I can somehow bring them to the new profile.
Edit: I mentioned, that in Sunrise typing in this forum is without lag/delax. With TFFx and the old profile I have letters disappearing with a big latency (even though I disabled the preference in this forum that is said to cause it). With my new TFFx profile typing has no delay. So that gives another hint, right?
It would seem then that your old profile is corrupt.
If you try a new profile using the prefs file that Altemose has put together you'll get all the optimizations that I made which should make things faster.
I would immediately suspect that the session manager thing you are using however might be part of the problem. Any saving of sessions involves holding content in ram. Doing that can be a cause of slowdowns (because ram is still being held). It's been my experience that having anything session related has generally slowed things down signifigantly. I usually browse with all that stuff off/disabled.
But we all use our browsers for different purposes so this may be important to you. If it is, then I would try optimizing the session manager as best you can. Choose a minimum amount of pages/tabs you need to be stored, a minimum amount of sessions to store and then go from there.
Altemose
macrumors G3
Correct. If there is slow typing on the old profile even with the Rich Text Editor off that means you got a pig in your profile that's hogging resources. Try the new profile and applying eyoungren's tweaks either manually or through my easy installer. That should straighten out the other performance issues.
@ Erik and Atemose
Hey pals!
I am really confused. Today I gave my old profile another try for several hours and no delay, beachballing or freezing. Even now as I am typing, the letters appear with no delay, which had been the case since the new forum style every time (including after disabling the rich text editor).
Hm, either way this is a problem which comes and goes, or something has been changed while turning the old profile on and off. There is however one difference. I saw that per default (since 38.2) something called ADB add on is installed per default. Since it said it is for developers I decided to delete it. Could be, that this made the change... hm, I don't know.
I didn't install "Valence" either, but I didn't delete it yet.
Hm, I will observe surfing with the old profile for some more days and as soon as beach balling comes back again, I will set up a new profile, maybe also with the tweaks (although I wonder, why Cameron Kaiser didn't set up TFFx that way and that he didn't so, still lets me wanna be over carefull before doing tweaks to TFFx).
@ Erik
You mentioned Vacuum Places addon earlier. I read the info about it. I don't quiet get, what it does other than cleaning the history and cache on a regular basis. Couldn't that be achieved by means included in TFFx preferences? Sorry, for being ignorant.
Hey pals!
I am really confused. Today I gave my old profile another try for several hours and no delay, beachballing or freezing. Even now as I am typing, the letters appear with no delay, which had been the case since the new forum style every time (including after disabling the rich text editor).
Hm, either way this is a problem which comes and goes, or something has been changed while turning the old profile on and off. There is however one difference. I saw that per default (since 38.2) something called ADB add on is installed per default. Since it said it is for developers I decided to delete it. Could be, that this made the change... hm, I don't know.
I didn't install "Valence" either, but I didn't delete it yet.
Hm, I will observe surfing with the old profile for some more days and as soon as beach balling comes back again, I will set up a new profile, maybe also with the tweaks (although I wonder, why Cameron Kaiser didn't set up TFFx that way and that he didn't so, still lets me wanna be over carefull before doing tweaks to TFFx).
@ Erik
You mentioned Vacuum Places addon earlier. I read the info about it. I don't quiet get, what it does other than cleaning the history and cache on a regular basis. Couldn't that be achieved by means included in TFFx preferences? Sorry, for being ignorant.
Last edited:
No idea about the addon you mention. I will have to check when I get home. It's always possible however that something fixed itself in switching things around.
No problems. As I said, we all have different uses. Just be aware that sessions can be held in ram and that can and will drag you down if it's not checked up on periodically.
As to Vacuum Places…most of what you discuss, including the favicons of bookmarks, etc are maintained in a file called places.sqlite. That's a database file. Over time it can become quite large and burdensome. Vacuum Places simply cleans and optimizes that file every time you close windows or restart the browser. Doing that keeps the database file trim and optimized which speeds things up in the browser.