Technically it would be their third BEV. Just cause they don't sell the Spark EV (the second EV) all over the US doesn't negate the places where it is on sale. Aside from the short range I hear it is a nice car
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Tesla Unveils $35,000 Model 3 Electric Car, Shipping Late 2017
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.On the other hand, ICE - although complex - is a very mature and reliable technology and its not unreasonable to expect 5-6 years with little more than oil changes, a new timing belt and a new starter battery (ignoring tyres, brakes, air con which will presumably affect EVs equally) after which you're into the unknown when it comes to battery life and general tech obsolescence on EVs. Anyway, the impression I'm forming is that a lot of EV owners are leasing, in which case maintenance costs after 2-3 years are irrelevant.
I think self-driving is a completely separate debate. Google's mission is the self-driving car (and all the advertising and data harvesting opportunities that entails), not the EV as such. I don't see Google taking orders any time soon - unless you own a theme park, airport or large business campus and want a local transit system (which seems like the first killer app for self-driving).
There's going to be a big gulf to cross between the sort of parking assist/auto braking stuff that's appearing now and full-blown, safe, self-driving. IMHO full self-drive has got to work safely with the driver asleep or drunk (whether or not that is legal) - because, like it or not, that is what is going to happen. Google also need to educate the press and public about risk assessment - i.e. "safe" just needs to mean "safer than the typical human driver" rather than "infallible" or the self-driving car isn't going to survive its first fatal accident.
Heh, OK, well how about some actual arguments then, rather than bluster, hand-waving, and EV fanboy stuff. You've yet to make any arguments to agree with or argue against. Our only recourse is to point out your childish behaviour. Don't want that? Don't do it. If you're not a 12 year old, prove it. (Sorry to the more mature 12 year olds I've just insulted.)
That's interesting. I don't like it as much, but it's better than the 3. That said, I guess the 3 is still a prototype, so it could change. Absolutely, there's no need for a grill. But, there's also certain design lineages that tend to be followed, and liked by the buyers. And, there's nothing wrong with skeuomorphism, in fact in terms of UI/UX, it's often better than the current 'flat' fashions that confuse users.
No kidding... what's up with that? I guess maybe ugly is supposed to be futuristic or something.
It was a pretty fun car (https://www.dropbox.com/s/d0v2p5raer7tbjl/SW928-1.jpg?dl=0), but rather tame compared to many cars today. (Well, except for the Devek White Car... there's little to touch that thing! http://www.nichols.nu/tip294.htm Susan gave me a heck of a ride in it one day! She was winning the 'unlimited' class in road-races back then, which means an *average* speed of over 150 mph on a 100ish mile stretch of a fairly curvy Nevada highway.)
That's kind of the case for most of the muscle-car nostalgia too. A lot of smoke and rubber, but today's cars generally whoop them. I remember driving a friends, I think Vega (ok, it wasn't a Vega... can't remember), that was so souped up (but otherwise poor) that it was all I could do to keep it sitting still at a stop light. When I lifted off the brake, it accelerated to like 45 mph on it's own... touch the gas and rubber and smoke everywhere. And, if you'd ever tried to drive it in a spirited manner, you'd have ended up in a ditch or telephone pole! It was totally a stop-light side-show.
My dad kept me from buying a beautiful Mustang fastback for like $1200. For my safety, probably a good thing. But, man, *if* I'd purchased it and took great care of it....
I fondly remember 'the City'
Lived there for almost a decade, and worked downtown. Then we moved to San Anselmo, and I commuted for a few years across the GG bridge each day (it's amazing how many weather patters one can experience in a single commute!). I had a beautiful Mica Merlot Miata (http://www.wilkinshub.com/stevespeak/need-a-name-for-miata/) during that time though... I miss that car too!I didn't experience much issue driving the 928. To me, it felt a lot like a big Miata. The one issue I did have is that apparently, there was a recall of the front lower ball joints (which the previous owner didn't do). It's probably a testament to how strong the fame of that car was that I'm still alive today. I had a front tire/suspension come undone at probably 60+ mph in a corner and was able to keep the car under control into a ditch with relatively little damage (and not a scratch to me). And, if you want a really odd story... when I called Devek to order replacement parts, there was another Steve Wilkinson who owned a 928 who had been in the hospital due to such an incident, around the same time... and they seemed a bit confused, at first, how I was out of the hospital and ordering parts already. Small world, I guess.
Oh, for sure. They've done a really good job on ICEs in the last couple of decades in that regard. But, having a stepper-motor at the wheel, and everything else ancillary, is pretty hard to argue with in terms of simplicity.
Agreed. And, I think it's going to be a bigger golf than is currently appreciated. There are a lot of misperceptions and assumptions going into the future of AI. It isn't a quantity problem (i.e.: more computing power) so much as a qualitative one. There are a lot of 'futurists' who think by stacking on more and more computing speed, we're going to make some kind of fundamental breakthrough. That just isn't the case.
Faster computers, better sensors, etc. *will* give the impression they are getting closer to actually driving. But they really aren't. They are just following programs... and their 'driving' will only be as good as those programs, and all the situations the programmers can foresee and build in. Eventually, that might be pretty good. In fact, it might outperform bad drivers in 90% of situations. But, I think we're also going to see some horrific catastrophes in that other 10%... whether that's worth the tradeoff to prevent other catastrophes caused by human negligence and stupidity, or even mistakes, that's a difficult discussion. Personally, I'd rather see us stick to AI assists.
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A friend of mine in the Navy had one, with that butt ugly hounds tooth interior. Nice ride, however.
I had a fraternity brother with the Cosworth Vega. Great engine in a lousy car. Another had a Sunbeam Tiger, aka the poor man's Cobra. Quick off the line and fast with the 289, just don't ask it to stop or turn quickly. We'd go out on the weekends and when some kid in a muscle car pulled up next to us we'd floor it when the light turned green and leave him in the dust. When he caught up with us we'd say "Not bad for a four cylinder eh?" I offered to buy it from him but never did. He wasn't a gearhaed so he really didn't appreciate it.
My dad kept me from buying a beautiful Mustang fastback for like $1200. For my safety, probably a good thing. But, man, *if* I'd purchased it and took great care of it....
I feel your pain. My dad was a mechanic and when I think of the cars in the salvage yard that went to the crusher I want to cry. I still regret not buying the Shelby.
I fondly remember 'the City'
A great city, I lived south on the coast for a while. The Miata is a great little car. A friend of mine raced hers with the SCCA.
Actually I have driven one of the old original Mini Cooper S models! You know, the one with dual gas tanks.
It was SO MUCH FUN, ONE YEAR LATER I BOUGHT A Brand New 2005 (BMW Built) Mini Cooper S. It too had the big bold speedo smack in the center of the dashboard. Of much greater importance it's got the ever important Tachometer right in front of the driver, where it belongs. Just like on my F430.
No fanboy stuff going on here. Was just acknowledging that the Tesla Model 3 is now the most advanced car in its class. If you're not into the EV scene, fine, but please pack up your toys, and move aside so the electric vehicle can come through. EV is here and now and it's accessible to everyone.
Technically it would be their third BEV. Just cause they don't sell the Spark EV (the second EV) all over the US doesn't negate the places where it is on sale. Aside from the short range I hear it is a nice car
What is the first I am missing??? You can count the Spark, but how many have they even sold?
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Okay, but Tesla has significantly more experience building successful EV's. Has GM ever built a better car in any class as renowned as the Model S? GM has a solid history making cheap vanilla transportation devices. Not necessarily anything wrong with that, as there is a huge market there - but they've never had a car anyone actually wants outside of maybe a Corvette.
I think everyone will face battery constraints, it's not a Tesla issue. I suspect it won't be a GM problem as demand will be low.
GM has been making EV's longer than Tesla but never really tried to sell them. Tesla's delivery problems, however, are not related to the type of vehicle but manufacturing and supply chains related; areas GM has vastly more experience than Tesla.
As for people wanting GM vehicles, they set some record sales in 2015; in August alone the sold nearly as many vehicles as Tesla expects to sell Model 3's over the next few years. The new Caddy's are getting a lot of respect as world class vehicles, for example. I'm not a GM fan but to count them out is a mistake, as it would be to count out any of the major manufacturers.
It will be interesting to see how sales go once the major manufacturers get serious about building EVs.
Battery constraints are very much a Tesla issue since it limit their ability to produce vehicles and thus make money; for them since they are also the sole supplier any problems with production impact their entire line of vehicles. If issues occur or they can't ramp up quickly this preorders may start to disappear and their reputation will take a hit as it goes from "Wow, look at the demand" to "Tesla fails to deliver to Model 3 as planned."
They make a great vehicle but they actually have to deliver in quantity to survive as a anything but a niche player in the high end EV market.
It will also be interesting to see what happens when people find out Tesla expects their 35K car to actually go out the door at around 42k and they may miss out on the rebates.
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But it's so 90's....
An interesting vehicle, but before its time and a product of regulator demands and not the market place. A neighbor had one and it wasn't a bad looking car for a 90's vehicle. GM made it a bit futuristic, with its smooth curves, big greenhouse and covered wheel wells, compared to the typical car but still similar to Saturns, etc. in its class.
Once CARB's rules were loosened GM killed the EV1, took all of them back and crushed them except for a few museum pieces. They never saw any profit potential in them but the owners apparently liked them a lot, to the point of trying to get GM to let them keep them.
All true. Just was pointing out they GM has technically made two other BEVs before the Bolt.
No worries, I was just adding some details for the folks who think Tesla was the first to do any thing with EVs.
The big guys have the engineering, manufacturing, and supply chain smarts to get into EVs in a big way; they just aren't convinced there is enough profit to make it worthwhile. Sometimes being a fast follower is a better position than to be the first since you can see what works and then use your market strengths to grab market share from the first mover.
Thank you for the info, but I'm not understanding something from that article: will those parking garages be charging their hourly parking fee (like $25+) to charge a Tesla there?
With the Superchargers they are clearly owned by Tesla, and are simply a free charge to Tesla owners. Is Tesla making the same arrangement for "Destination chargers" with parking garages so they are also free of charge -- or at some sort of discount from their normal astronomical rates?
That's great, though what happens when a Tesla owner parks to recharge and leaves their car at the charging spot all day? Having lived there, I can envision enough self important jerks who can afford a Tesla deciding free means they have the right to take up a space for as long as they want.
If the spots aren't reserved for Tesla, they may find a regular vehicle there, even if they are some jerks will simply ignore the signs.
It is a good plan though, and one more cities could adopt if Tesla is willing to spring for the chargers.
My son backed his S in the garage, while standing in the driveway. Impressive. I may have to get one of these cheap ones lol.
In addition, the owners charge their cars at home at nite with plenty of power for the next day.
In addition, the owners charge their cars at home at nite with plenty of power for the next day.
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Ha, well, I wasn't referring to Tesla owners but people who have very strong opinions about what kind of people drive what kind of cars, and what few cars are worthy of being driven at all.
No problem, Tesla and its users will speak out. You will find out, just mark your calendar to 2019 and search for it.
No, not really. I'm not ready to spend 6-figures on a car right now. Once the Model 3 is available, then we'll see.
You could always get a Bolt... those are supposed to be shipping at the end of the month.
The point is, they aren't available.
Yea, I haven't paid much attention to those... I suppose they might be worth considering.
The point is, they aren't available.
Yea, I haven't paid much attention to those... I suppose they might be worth considering.
I live in the Vast Fly-Over, so ads for electric vehicles are seldom seen. Car and Driver gave the Bolt a good review, though:
http://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/bolt-ev
Thanks, yea, it looks pretty good (but I'd have to drive one and get a feel for quality... something GM isn't known for, IMO). But, probably like you, range is a big problem for me at the moment. I'm way up in the Great White North, and for example, to get a Tesla home from the nearest dealership would be like a 3-day trip (carefully planned on where I could borrow an outlet). Once I got it here, though, it would probably suffice for a good majority of my needs. (We'd have to have another vehicle for longer trips).