Tests Confirm Apple's Throttling Fix Improves Performance for 2018 MacBook Pro Models [Updated]

[DNichter]

Guys!! We only got a patch here, we didn't get the root issue addressed!

Yes! Apple fixed the bug it had and they do deserve a high five on that! Finding it, correcting it and within very short time roll a patch. All good and hard work! Yes, clap out hands for that!

Now lets get back to the root issue here as David Lee points out ALL of the thinner systems fall victim to the lack of adequate cooling so the i9 is throttled by the systems design.

While the constraints may be livable for many, there is still a very large crowd that want and need more from this chip! Apple failed them! This chip could still give us 10 to 20% still better performance!

Yes, but Apple isn't claiming that. Nor are they selling that. They are giving you high performance in a light and thin package that is very well made. You obviously could get a bigger laptop with better cooling that would perform better with the same chip. If that's what you prefer, you have options. Apple is selling their computer, not necessarily just the chip.

 

[nihil0]

How is Moore's law even related to this? Moore's law is about the doubling of transistors, not performance.
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How about a company that releases a laptop that isn't missing something so vital as a digital key. I'm no hater, but apple screwed up. Btw, I owned a Razer 15" before buying this MBP, and that didn't have any of the issues I'm dealing with, so there's your example if you wanted one

I was talking about company which can acknowledge when something is WRONG
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90+ % of users won't notice ANY difference between 6 cores i7 and i9. These tests just prove it's not worth to buy i9 MBP for majority of users as you simply can't get 100% of i9 in such a slim ntb.

Let those users who really need it decide. I was merely talking about ********* that went on since this was discovered - many people wrote here in forums that they have cancelled their i9 pre-orders because of throttling and voila - now it is fixed.

 

[Heineken]

Conspiracy ? How could Apple release to the market something like this? Does not look like they tested it much.
Still it seems obvious that the thermal design could have been improved and hasn't been.

You go do better, show them how real men do it. Oh wait ...

 

[clystron]

This chip could still give us 10 to 20% still better performance!

Probably but if the CPU can hold or exceed its base-clock with all cores loaded and reach full turbo with one core loaded without overheating its sufficiently cooled and powered.
Cooling (and VRM) could certainly be better but right now it does not look like they are inadequate to me.

 

[deeddawg]

So apparently the sky isn't actually falling.

 

[jerryk]

Thanks to Dave2D and other YouTubers for bringing this issue to light. The power of YouTube forced Apple to take a look at this problem. Glad that the i9 MBP now works as it should have in the first place.

 

[YaBe]

i wasn't limiting the scope to this site only.

As it was posted in my recent ...post
https://www.google.it/search?q=dell...rome..69i57.4439j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

But yes when you are one of the biggest company ever there is more fuss, it is one of the cons of being so big.

The discouraging thing is that as per usaual, Apple is quite quick to fix the issue, but seemingly slow at finding them. It has been like that for ages (iPhone antennagate ...) they do fix the issue (wich is a pro compared to any other manufacturer) but I find hilarious that an issue as easy to find as this one was not discovered by Apple engineers.

I can immagine Tim like....

Colonel Sandurz: I don't know, sir! They must have hyperjets on that thing!
Dark Helmet: And what have we got on this thing? A Cuisinart?!
(change hyperjet with engineers and on that thing with competitor name.)

 

[OC40]

Had a few moments to mess around with the i7 2.6 last night.

I started the patch as soon as it turned on. While this doesn’t have to do with throddling, I expected it to generate a lot of heat as it updated. It was very cool to the touch. My mid-2010 would sear a steak to medium rare as it updates.

 

[gnipgnop]

Gaming laptops always feel significantly hotter on the outside of the case than an MBP, so I'm not sure the idea that a thicker case provides better heat dissipation and therefore higher clock speeds is actually true. I think those OEMs just allow the system to run higher temps, period.
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The discouraging thing is that as per usaual, Apple is quite quick to fix the issue, but seemingly slow at finding them.

Here's the big Catch-22 though: the YouTubers were focused on the i9 and the hardware design (i.e., it's "too thin" to dissipate the heat from the i9 properly), but Apple determined that the issue effected the i7 and i5 as well and was software based. So Apple was still significantly better at diagnosing the actual problem internally than people outside the company.

 

[RogerWilco]

Well... my question is how did this get past their testing? Are you telling me that they don't do performance tests like David Lee did?

The new mbps work like totally awesome when sitting on a table at Starbucks, so like just stop with the unwarranted hate dude.

 

[citysnaps]

Yeah but people love to complain about Apple. It’s a very unique predicament that they’re in.

They’ve changed a lot (some for the better and some for the worse) and people have loved Apple/Steve for so long and are so deep into the ecosystem that it’s hard to switch.

I do think some people complain a little TOO much, but some of the criticism is justified. Also, there are wayyy more car options than laptop options.

Yeah... What's astonishing to me is many have so much internal hate and anger and really want Apple to fail. That's so unhealthy.

I would love to have a brand new 5-Series BMW. But that's just not going to happen in my lifetime. My Toyota gets the job done for me.

But now imagine if I hung out on BMW internet discussion forums, day in and day out. For years. And did the same thing, hoping that BMW missteps bringing me joy and a little blip of power sticking it to the man, and constantly taking issue and badgering others who have a genuine interest in the brand. That would be just stupid. And extraordinarily unhealthy as well.

 

[mrex]

More of a bandaid rather than a fix since performance is pretty much the same as pre-update and it doesn't apply to boot camp?

and what i see starting from 6:15 in this video. the cpu is still running under the base clock but the system is at 90 C and fans are spinning max speed. when and where is it able to use turbo boost? how long? or atleast, when it is able to reach the base clock level under the load?

does this make the macbook pro (2018) to be a laptop advertized and for the money? no, i dont think so. i dont think that the fix fixed anything so drastically that i would buy this laptop. for sure it fixed the throttling issue, but im waiting to see more details about this fix and how it is affecting the whole system.

 

[fathergll]

Sigh... All that good complaining has gone to waste.

What are you talking about? Per article "Apple reached out to Lee to and worked with him to replicate his workflow, getting to the source of the bug. Apple discovered that there was a missing digital key in the MacBook Pro firmware that impacted the thermal management system, driving down clock speeds under heavy thermal loads. This was a problem that appears to have affected all 2018 MacBook Pro models."

The complaining is what caused Apple to provide the fix in the first place.

 

[buststyles]

On and off topic. When did the expectations change that laptops need to be able to run a cpu at max speed for hours on end? I thought that is why companies build server farms on hardware designed to that. Even then server hardware is placed in rooms much colder than room temperature(from experience ) lol. Laptops have always been a compromise between power and portability. If an individual's line amount of work has outpaced the capabilities of a laptop then it is time to get a bigger hammer and not to blame the current hammer's design.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

They didn’t need to work with Dave Lee. They have capable engineers. They worked with him for PR purposes.

And you have intimate knowledge about that? You must have a short line with Apple's management. Right...

 

[ipponrg]

Yeah... What's astonishing to me is many have so much internal hate and anger and really want Apple to fail. That's so unhealthy.

I would love to have a brand new 5-Series BMW. But that's just not going to happen in my lifetime. My Toyota gets the job done for me.

But now imagine if I hung out on BMW internet discussion forums, day in and day out. For years. And did the same thing, hoping that BMW missteps bringing me joy and a little blip of power sticking it to the man, and constantly taking issue and badgering others who have a genuine interest in the brand. That would be just stupid. And extraordinarily unhealthy as well.

Watch the YouTube video that @mi7chy posted.

I think it’s an interesting and valuable perspective that people such as yourself are missing. I think the current generation of Apple is probably the most toxic it’s been since I’ve dabbled in the Apple ecosystem. And for obvious reasons too. The wanting to fail is a byproduct of liking the old Apple so much that you want them to see that you are unhappy. Of course things change, but time will tell if it’s for the better.

I think your BMW comparison is invalid for the most part. Most people accept what it is due to historical context. Most people know that the 5-series will have more issues compared to the 3-series. Your track monster is going to be the M3. If you want to talk about complaining about performance inching, visit the Subaru forums instead and read about the STi performance complaints of recent years.

 

[Shanghaichica]

And you have intimate knowledge about that? You must have a short line with Apple management. Right...

Well why else would they work with him. They have world class engineers at their disposal yet they would work work a youtube vloger to solve an engineering issue??

 

[TheShadowKnows!]

If there is an issue with a product, then you have to bring this up to the company. It's called feedback and not complaining. How is a company supposed to know if their product was having some type of issue if no one ever contact them? I am glad to see this only requires an update and Apple quickly resolved this bug.

Dude, sorry to disagree.
This is an example of Newton's Third law applied onto Apple Product Marketing:

"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."​

The action was Dave Lee's YouTube expose. And the reaction was Apple's quick faux-pas discovery and fix.

Without a very public action, we may have seen Apple's typically recalcitrant response, or even silence.

So, kudos to Dave Lee.
In my opinion, others will disagree, I loved his quiet professional demeanor on his videos, pre- and post-fix, which contrasts with the carnival barkers from others, both here and in YouTube.

 

[maflynn]

They didn’t need to work with Dave Lee. They have capable engineers. They worked with him for PR purposes.

Not really, they've done that before. btw, those capable engineers sure missed something major like the digital key. I think it was a good move for both parties to have Apple work with Dave.

 

[mj2k18]

Apple dug themselves into a big hole on their own, there's still PLENTY of reasons to hate the company. I don't see the need for your comment.

What "hole" is that? Being the most successful company on the planet? Or because the company isn't composed of magical human can test every permutation of millions of scenarios before launch?

No, nobody has a real reason to "hate" the company, this strong of a word is usually reserved for trolls. Unless Apple has personally does something heinous to you or your family, there's no reason for you to "hate" them besides unwarranted hysteria. Designing products not completely in like with your personal preferences doesn't warrant "hatred", which sounds like an extremely child like reaction to have. Save that for people and companies that actually deserve it in this world.

So yeah, his comment was more needed than yours. Instead of expressing some sort of positive comment about this being addressed and finding out its not a fundamental issue with the laptop hardware, we can a predictable and trollish "who cares, I still hate Apple" comment that is utterly pointless.

Also your signature advertises the fact that you don't even OWN a Mac (a hackintosh is actually in violation of copyright law), and then you have a quote from some guy bashing Apple. These are just SO important to have in your signature and with every post. Yet, you post obsessively on an Apple forum, so you're probably one of the least objective people out there when it comes to this. You're not in a position to advise about what Apple should and shouldn't do with their products, nor whats in their best interest or in the best interests of consumers. Your needs and wants are clearly extremely niche, and pretty much all you ever have to contribute are hate-filled troll posts.

 

[flat five]

when and where is it able to use turbo boost? how long? or atleast, when it is able to reach the base clock level under the load?

from the few recent examples i've seen it will always reach or exceed base clock speed when the software demands it.. even with all cores at 100%..

as far as turbo speed goes, intel no longer publishes the per core frequency charts but with the 2.9GHz i9, it might look something like--
1 core -- 4.8GHz max
2 cores-- 4.6GHz
3 cores-- 4.4 GHz
4 cores -- 4.1 GHz
5 cores -- 3.8 GHz
6 cores -- 3.5 GHz

and from my past experience, it will hold these speeds indefinitely if the processing demands stay the same.

 

[Maclver]

Anyone know where I could get this wallpaper!?

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

Well why else would they work with him. They have world class engineers at their disposal yet they would work work a youtube vloger to solve an engineering issue??

I repeat. Do you have intimate knowledge about that? You are just wildly guessing. Apple said they did work with David Lee. Why would you doubt Apple all of a sudden?. Because it fits your Dave Lee bashing theory better?

 

[michaeljk]

I purchased my current MacBook Pro in 2014. I bought the most expensive model they offered at the time, thinking this was going to be my everything computer. The logic board has fried twice that were preceded both times by overheating (not sure of the cause of the overheating). I do a lot of music creation stuff and some photoshop/lightroom stuff. I shy away from staying in Photoshop for very long because my laptop still gets pretty hot on the bottom under the keyboard, and I don't want to go through the hassle and expense of yet another board replacement. Due to these ongoing concerns, I am reluctant to buy another MacBook Pro. I will not consider switching to Windows at this point, so I when this computer dies, I may look at actually buying a slower Mac laptop that won't push the edges of what a laptop (Apple) can handle. Sigh. Bummer. The good news is that I bought a Mac Pro a few years ago, and use that for when I know I am going to really push things. Yet, I paid really good money for the performance of this laptop that I haven't felt safe using since it burned out on me twice. This is, to date, my biggest disappointment with Apple. In fairness to them, though, I should add that they didn't charge me for the second Logic Board replacement, even though both were out of warranty, and the last time they replaced the warranty, the replaced most of the innards, not just the logic board. I am hoping this means this laptop will last me for another couple of years.

 

[flat five]

a i dont think that the fix fixed anything so drastically that i would buy this laptop.

or maybe it wasn't so drastically broken as the past week's hype made it out to be?
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Well why else would they work with him. They have world class engineers at their disposal yet they would work work a youtube vloger to solve an engineering issue??

they didn't 'work with him'..
they contacted him in order to replicate the exact workflow he was using in his video.

contact any software developer in regards to a problem you're having and they're most definitely going to want to be able to replicate the problem on their side..

idk, pretty standard stuff and i wouldn't try reading into it any further than what we see on the surface.. because odds are, by far, it goes no deeper than that.


[EDIT] just for example:

https://wiki.mcneel.com/rhino/mac/reportingproblems

How to write a great bug report
We want to fix the problems you see, but first we have to reproduce the problem on our computers. Writing a great bug report helps us do that. Include as much detail as possible, even if it seems obvious to you. A great bug report includes:

1. Each step you perform to reproduce the problem. When running commands, note whether you ran a command from the application, or typed a command. Be specific when describing the command you start.
2. What happened after each step.
3. What you wish happened instead.
4. A model that demonstrates the problem.
5. A screenshot of the problem.
6. A description of your hardware and Rhino version:
   1. Navigate to Rhinoceros > About Rhinoceros.
   2. In the lower left corner, click the More info… button.
   3. The Rhinoceros Information panel opens. Click the Copy to clipboard button. This copies the contents of the tab to your clipboard.
   4. Paste the copied computer description into the post or email.
7. Does this problem happen with every model, or just a certain model? If the problem is with just some models, we will need a copy of your model to duplicate the problem.

Assume you are the only person having the problem.