The 2009 (Gainestown) Mac Pro: Everything We Know

[diamond.g]

The Gainestown CPUs are more expensive per GHz than the Harpertowns though. That might reduce the performance increase of Nehalem, unless those benchmarks account for the increased price.

I think his prices may be wrong. MaximumPC (along with Wikipedia) seems to believe that the W5580 (the 3.2 Ghz Gainestowne Xeon) will list for aroung $1,999USD in quantities of 1k. Not the $3,200USD stated in the first post.
Yeah that is more than the current 3.2, but if the 1 Nehalem 3.2Ghz quad performs about equal to the 2 four core harpertowns...

 

[nanofrog]

I think his prices may be wrong. MaximumPC (along with Wikipedia) seems to believe that the W5580 (the 3.2 Ghz Gainestowne Xeon) will list for aroung $1,999USD in quantities of 1k. Not the $3,200USD stated in the first post.
Yeah that is more than the current 3.2, but if the 1 Nehalem 3.2Ghz quad performs about equal to the 2 four core harpertowns...

Intel released a price list (Q=1000), and the W5580 was slated at $1600 per. So $3200 for 2 of them to the vendors.

If you make an educated guess as to retail, $2k might be about right. Each of course.

I don't know about you, but those are just a bit... err...way out of my budget.

 

[diamond.g]

Intel released a price list (Q=1000), and the W5580 was slated at $1600 per. So $3200 for 2 of them to the vendors.

If you make an educated guess as to retail, $2k might be about right. Each of course.

I don't know about you, but those are just a bit... err...way out of my budget.

I totally misread the first post. He was combining prices. Well even then the current 3.2 supposedly goes for around 2400 (combined). So 800 bucks isn't bad for a system that should have performance touching 4 quads.

 

[nanofrog]

I totally misread the first post. He was combining prices. Well even then the current 3.2 supposedly goes for around 2400 (combined). So 800 bucks isn't bad for a system that should have performance touching 4 quads.

To me, this is why the performance gains, provided such a machine is needed, is justified. A lot of bang for the buck.

 

[Tallest Skil]

Someone (I forget who) mentioned a reorganizing of the internals and an extension of the case. Well, this isn't a full 24" extension like he said, but it's enough longer to give enough room add two more HDD bays and a second double-wide PCIe 2.0 slot... And it's no taller than the existing model.

And yes, this is just chopping of existing parts...

 

[J the Ninja]

Someone (I forget who) mentioned a reorganizing of the internals and an extension of the case. Well, this isn't a full 24" extension like he said, but it's enough longer to give enough room add two more HDD bays and a second double-wide PCIe 2.0 slot... And it's no taller than the existing model.

And yes, this is just chopping of existing parts...

Graphics cards are "breathing in" CPU exhaust in that setup. (it was me who mentioned that, btw)

 

[Tallest Skil]

Graphics cards are "breathing in" CPU exhaust in that setup. (it was me who mentioned that, btw)

Yeah... I said that to myself when I was making it... So how else would it work?

Anyone who wants to have a go at a text description can, and I'll mock up the internals from that.

Push comes to shove, it just WON'T be changed, and it probably won't...

 

[nanofrog]

Someone (I forget who) mentioned a reorganizing of the internals and an extension of the case. Well, this isn't a full 24" extension like he said, but it's enough longer to give enough room add two more HDD bays and a second double-wide PCIe 2.0 slot... And it's no taller than the existing model.

And yes, this is just chopping of existing parts...

Using the view you created:

Drives on the bottom front (2x4 configuration)
Fan shroud on front bottom won't need to be nearly that deep. Just enough for the fan really, so ~40mm
PSU on bottom, back end (set flat)
Mem risers are at the top, behind the optical bays (flat, end to end)
Graphics cards/slots in the middle, and there should be enough room to fit 6

*CPU exhaust will be brought into slot area, but with enough space & airflow (without getting loud), the graphics cards won't overheat.

 

[JesterJJZ]

Just make the current one 2 inches taller and add a second row of drives. Problem solved.

Or... make it 2 inches taller and instead add 2 extra drives towards the front under the first 2 and add another couple pci slot under the last two. It would accomodate room for another doublewide video card and still leave slots open.

 

[Horst]

Just make the current one 2 inches taller and add a second row of drives. Problem solved.

Or... make it 2 inches taller and instead add 2 extra drives towards the front under the first 2 and add another couple pci slot under the last two. It would accomodate room for another doublewide video card and still leave slots open.

Yummy !

How about a dual-purpose solution for the second optical drive bay ?
Two HDD bays, which can be removed to make room for a 2nd optical drive, which is mounted on a custom 5.25 tray .

 

[agile]

JesterJJZ, that is perfect. 8 HD bays. Nice.

 

[JesterJJZ]

JesterJJZ, that is perfect. 8 HD bays. Nice.

Thanks! If they can shave off a bit from the top and bottom of the internal components, it might not even need to be any taller.

 

[nanofrog]

Thanks! If they can shave off a bit from the top and bottom of the internal components, it might not even need to be any taller.

They may not be able to, as much of it is commodity parts. HDD's, ODD's,... are all made by another manufacturer, and are built to industry standards (size at least ).

Given the size of the Xeon 5500 series, they won't be able to shrink the logic board either. (I'd think they'll stick with Intel for boards). The PSU could be redesigned to a custom size, but it would potentially increase the cost, even in quantity.

So there really isn't much they could do, unless they actually use laptop parts for the optical bays. And that probably wouldn't make that much of a difference anyway.

It is a decent layout for fit though.

 

[iMacmatician]

Push comes to shove, it just WON'T be changed, and it probably won't...

Although if the Mac Pro is announced at WWDC, it's more likely to have some sort of design/internals change.

Not to say it will happen though, although it might if the board for Nehalem is different from the board for Penryn.

 

[Tallest Skil]

Although if the Mac Pro is announced at WWDC, it's more likely to have some sort of design/internals change.

Not to say it will happen though, although it might if the board for Nehalem is different from the board for Penryn.

Well, all of the Tylersburg boards I've seen look NOTHING like the Mac Pro configuration, but obviously Apple gets their own boards done with the componentry where they want it.

Also, I saw a blurb about Tim Cook commenting on Mac Pro sales and how they contribute little...

It's time for us to break out the pessimism lotion and say the absolute worst thing that can ever be said, if for no other reason than to say at the next update, "Well, at least THAT didn't happen..."

The Mac Pro will be discontinued.

There. It's been said. Now let's go on and prove it wrong.

 

[jjahshik32]

Seems like after seeing the estimate of the pricing for gainstown the current mac pro is the one to buy.

 

[Tallest Skil]

Seems like after seeing the estimate of the pricing for gainstown the current mac pro is the one to buy.

Now...

The price of the Gainestown Mac Pro won't matter with the benefits of Snow Leopard.

Seriously, it will be WORTH the money. I'm not saying that Snow Leopard will allow you to BECOME the Folding@Home server and cure cancer on your own, but the speed increases brought by Snow Leopard and Gainestown will be worth the higher price.

 

[nanofrog]

Although if the Mac Pro is announced at WWDC, it's more likely to have some sort of design/internals change.

Not to say it will happen though, although it might if the board for Nehalem is different from the board for Penryn.

The internals would definitely need adjusting, if not completely reworked. The exterior is another issue, and I'm not remotely sure what will happen.

 

[iMacmatician]

Well, all of the Tylersburg boards I've seen look NOTHING like the Mac Pro configuration, but obviously Apple gets their own boards done with the componentry where they want it.

And just because they change the layout doesn't mean that they'll add more bays or widen the PCIe slots etc.

Also, I saw a blurb about Tim Cook commenting on Mac Pro sales and how they contribute little...

It's time for us to break out the pessimism lotion and say the absolute worst thing that can ever be said, if for no other reason than to say at the next update, "Well, at least THAT didn't happen..."

The Mac Pro will be discontinued.

There. It's been said. Now let's go on and prove it wrong.

Well, I wouldn't go that far… but I definitely believe that the Mac Pro will become, and is already, a lower-profile Mac with a longer update cycle (1.5~2 years with possible CPU-only updates in-between). I also see the iMac moving up (65 W desktop quad-core) and the Mac Pro base price increasing.

the speed increases brought by Snow Leopard and Gainestown will be worth the higher price.

I would agree with that. Although the boost may not be as big as from Yorkfield » Core i7 (it might be with QuickPath etc.), there will be still a performance increase. Not to mention all the other components due for an update (*cough* GPUs).

The speed issue is really with Gainestown, 80 W, and the Xserve… although there's not really a price issue there…

 

[jjahshik32]

Now...

The price of the Gainestown Mac Pro won't matter with the benefits of Snow Leopard.

Seriously, it will be WORTH the money. I'm not saying that Snow Leopard will allow you to BECOME the Folding@Home server and cure cancer on your own, but the speed increases brought by Snow Leopard and Gainestown will be worth the higher price.

But couldnt you also say when the current mac pros (especially for its price) gains snow leopard and finally is able to utilize its full potential that the current mac pro is worth buying?

I'm just saying if you buy the current mac pro and especially 16gb of RAM will only cost $340 from transintl.com and basically a 3k machine compared to a 5k+ (nehalem with expensive DDR3 memory) machine with very little difference in speed once snow leopard is in effect... (I guess we wont know until its actually released to see what the speed differences are with gainstown).

 

[TennisandMusic]

But couldnt you also say when the current mac pros (especially for its price) gains snow leopard and finally is able to utilize its full potential that the current mac pro is worth buying?

I'm just saying if you buy the current mac pro and especially 16gb of RAM will only cost $340 from transintl.com and basically a 3k machine compared to a 5k+ (nehalem with expensive DDR3 memory) machine with very little difference in speed once snow leopard is in effect... (I guess we wont know until its actually released to see what the speed differences are with gainstown).

Have to agree completely with this. I'm hoping to get a current mac pro. I don't WANT to spend that much for much better video and 3d rendering. It's not a huge part of my workload whatsoever, and that aspect is far more for fun. The current Mac Pro is not a "slow" machine by any stretch.

 

[iasky]

Triple channel is locked in.

Also ECC DDR3 is very, very expensive.

It's all relative. I paid $1000 for 4 Mb RAM for my MAC II!

 

[sidewinder]

It's all relative. I paid $1000 for 4 Mb RAM for my MAC II!

And I paid $195 for my Apple II Plus Language Card which had 16KB of RAM....



S-

 

[iasky]

Have to agree completely with this. I'm hoping to get a current mac pro. I don't WANT to spend that much for much better video and 3d rendering. It's not a huge part of my workload whatsoever, and that aspect is far more for fun. The current Mac Pro is not a "slow" machine by any stretch.

So true ... but really the value of each new generation increases far more than the price, so really you are probably better with the new machine if you can handle the price.

 

[TennisandMusic]

So true ... but really the value of each new generation increases far more than the price, so really you are probably better with the new machine if you can handle the price.

Going by the benchmarks, I don't think the value is there considering the price increase. Not at the moment. If I was a full time CG artist or video editor then yes I would say it was worth it in a heartbeat.