The 2009 (Gainestown) Mac Pro: Everything We Know

[BenRoethig]

Well, all of the Tylersburg boards I've seen look NOTHING like the Mac Pro configuration, but obviously Apple gets their own boards done with the componentry where they want it.

Also, I saw a blurb about Tim Cook commenting on Mac Pro sales and how they contribute little...

It's time for us to break out the pessimism lotion and say the absolute worst thing that can ever be said, if for no other reason than to say at the next update, "Well, at least THAT didn't happen..."

The Mac Pro will be discontinued.

There. It's been said. Now let's go on and prove it wrong.

Of course they contribute little, how many users can afford $2300 just to get a quad core CPU? I hope they aren't stupid enough to do this and just throw away the professional users. Then again, given the leadership's inability to server anyone buy the most low end trendy users, I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Umbongo]

Of course they contribute little, how many users can afford $2300 just to get a quad core CPU? I hope they aren't stupid enough to do this and just throw away the professional users. Then again, given the leadership's inability to server anyone buy the most low end trendy users, I wouldn't be surprised.

Without the Mac Pro (or some headless desktop) Apple don't provide a proper hardware solution for their pro apps, so it is rather unlikely they will get rid of it.

Well done you have destroyed my plan to start saving for a mac pro with a 5600 that 5800 card looks incredible the mind boggles how that will play with snow leopard, i can see windows 7 throwing in the towel on benchmarking

You should make yourself very aware of what the Quadro cards offer on OSX before buying one. I'm not sure what you mean buy windows 7 throwing in the towel either. If you mean the card will be amazing on OSX you are likely mistaken. Apples drivers for Quadro cards appear to have been nothing better than those of the GeForce cards they share hardware with. 7800GT for the FX 4500 and 8800 series for the FX 5600. They do not offer application optimized and highly refined drivers like you get for windows.

IMO the only reason to buy the Quadro is if you plan on doing a lot of CAD/CAM work in Windows or have applications that can specifically use it's features. Even then the FX 5600, and FX 5800, are only worth it if you are doing really high end stuff. The lower end Pro cards from both Nvidia and ATI are more than enough for most professionals. Heck these days the consumer cards offer so much power a lot are happy just to use them as many 3D apps are moving away from OpenGL.

 

[Tallest Skil]

Funny... the low-end crowd keeps screaming for an xMac... so is Apple really catering to them? (The answer is, "Yes," because there are better solutions)

Also, is this the Tylersburg configuration that Apple will most likely use?

This is DP/36, right?

 

[Umbongo]

Yes that is the chipset they are most likely to use.

 

[Horst]

that 5800 card looks incredible the mind boggles how that will play with snow leopard

On a related note, if Snow Leopard is going to utilize the GPU to increase performance, chances are Macs will be outfitted with the most recent graphic cards, maybe even decent drivers ! (gasp !)

Then again, how exactly can even the latest and greatest GPU improve performance of a beastly processor setup ?

Guess I'll have to do some research...

 

[Pressure]

On a related note, if Snow Leopard is going to utilize the GPU to increase performance, chances are Macs will be outfitted with the most recent graphic cards, maybe even decent drivers ! (gasp !)

Then again, how exactly can even the latest and greatest GPU improve performance of a beastly processor setup ?

Guess I'll have to do some research...

Graphic cards are almost build to do massive parallel calculations.

Just compare the amount of GFLOPs a modern processor and a graphic card push these days and you will understand why the graphic card is such an interesting thing.

The current Mac Pro with two Harpertown processors (Xeon 3.20Ghz) push around 102 GigaFlops. The Radeon HD 4870 pushes 1.2TeraFlops and the Geforce GTX 280 pushes 933GigaFlops.

 

[BenRoethig]

Funny... the low-end crowd keeps screaming for an xMac... so is Apple really catering to them? (The answer is, "Yes," because there are better solutions)

Where is this better solution? The Mac Pro is unaffordable and the iMac despite what Apple believes is far from up to the task. I run into bottlenecks caused by its mobile platform and practically sealed AIO form factor daily.

Also, is this the Tylersburg configuration that Apple will most likely use?

This is DP/36, right?

Note quite. That would be tylersburg DP 36 x2 with two tylersburg north bridges Might show up in a really high end version, but I think the single north variant will be the standard configuration. Whether it uses different versions of tylersburg for different configurations like they did with U3 is unknown.

 

[vogelhausdesign]

This is all very interesting and I've enjoyed reading it.. But as professional user who is sitting here with a burnt out mac setup.. Can any one person, or the culmination of users here estimate when the i7 Mac Pro will be available.

I know it's a long shot.. but from an investment standpoint ( buying a new mac pro @ $20,000+) this information is no where else, not even speculation of this information..

Are we still waiting on server grade i7's? Or are we just waiting for OS X SL?

I've been digging deep into trying to estimate this release, the information that's even 20 days old is way off.

Has there been any recent releases ( information. speculation ) that it will hit the market sometime before march? My company is absolutely on HOLD right now waiting for this information.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cory, Owner.
vogelhaus design
www.vogelha.us

 

[Tallest Skil]

Can any one person, or the culmination of users here estimate when the i7 Mac Pro will be available.

It's NOT i7. No, we know nothing. WWDC 2009 is most likely.

Are we still waiting on server grade i7's? Or are we just waiting for OS X SL?

Snow Leopard has nothing to do with it. We are waiting for Gainestown, still, yes.

I've been digging deep into trying to estimate this release, the information that's even 20 days old is way off.

What information is off?

Has there been any recent releases ( information. speculation ) that it will hit the market sometime before march? My company is absolutely on HOLD right now waiting for this information.

Again, we know nothing. Ask Intel when they're going to get off their butts and start manufacturing.

 

[BenRoethig]

This is all very interesting and I've enjoyed reading it.. But as professional user who is sitting here with a burnt out mac setup.. Can any one person, or the culmination of users here estimate when the i7 Mac Pro will be available.

I know it's a long shot.. but from an investment standpoint ( buying a new mac pro @ $20,000+) this information is no where else, not even speculation of this information..

Are we still waiting on server grade i7's? Or are we just waiting for OS X SL?

I've been digging deep into trying to estimate this release, the information that's even 20 days old is way off.

Has there been any recent releases ( information. speculation ) that it will hit the market sometime before march? My company is absolutely on HOLD right now waiting for this information.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cory, Owner.
vogelhaus design
www.vogelha.us

By spring or early summer. Also, Core i7 is the consumer branding for the Nehalem family. For the sever workstation side its Xeon 3500 single link non-MP chipsets and Xeon 5500 for the dual link MP enabled chips.

 

[Umbongo]

Note quite. That would be tylersburg DP 36 x2 with two tylersburg north bridges Might show up in a really high end version, but I think the single north variant will be the standard configuration. Whether it uses different versions of tylersburg for different configurations like they did with U3 is unknown.

I'd be very suprised if Apple don't go with dual IOHs. Not only is that design specifically intended for Workstations it would be a step backwards as the current Mac Pro supports 40 lanes.

 

[vogelhausdesign]

By spring or early summer. Also, Core i7 is the consumer branding for the Nehalem family. For the sever workstation side its Xeon 3500 single link non-MP chipsets and Xeon 5500 for the dual link MP enabled chips.

Forgive me for the terminology. Perhaps I'm in a situation where I'm stuck without a computer, and the solution is months away.

What do I do? Buy a new mac pro right now with nearly all the options available and then see if it's value holds when the new technology is out ( sell it)?

I'm a bit confused about the secrecy. For someone who is planning to soon, and has spent large amounts of money in the past with apple. I expect a little more along the lines of a scheduled release date, even if they have to break it a few times. Having the security of knowing when a product that is the heart of your company is going to be released is a huge factor in the sales market. What are they thinking keeping everyone in the dark??

Anyone want to explain? Are the low-end consumers that "Wowed!" at the cloak and shadow that is a brand new entry level macbook?

I've been using apple at their highest end model, hype free, for about 9 years now and I never quite understood the lack of communication to their high dollar spenders. I know we're few and far between, and maybe we don't make up a huge demographic with them ( see iPod sales). But damnit. we spend and spend with them, and it's like trying to get info out of a magicians hat when we want to know what to buy next.

Cory, Owner
vogelhaus design
www.vogelha.us

 

[Tallest Skil]

I'm a bit confused about the secrecy. For someone who is planning to soon, and has spent large amounts of money in the past with apple. I expect a little more along the lines of a scheduled release date, even if they have to break it a few times. Having the security of knowing when a product that is the heart of your company is going to be released is a huge factor in the sales market. What are they thinking keeping everyone in the dark??

Google "Osborne Effect".

If Apple releases info about the next model, all sales of the current model stop because people wait. Therefore, they make no money.

 

[cybeross]

osbourne effect, sure, but I remember knowing every feature of the iphone a year before it came out, or something like that, and that didn't stop a thing... in this world, there's ALWAYS better around the corner, aren't people used to that? As it has been said many many times, those who truly need one, can't afford to wait in any circumstance.

 

[vogelhausdesign]

Google "Osborne Effect".

If Apple releases info about the next model, all sales of the current model stop because people wait. Therefore, they make no money.

I guess I'm speaking for the people whom use Mac Pro on a more high end level, that being a machine costing more than $20,000 USD. I feel we should be marketed to differently, and not lumped in with the high school demographic. Apple is a company blessed with a diverse enough demographic to hold different generations of users, with vastly different needs, at different age groups.

Would you buy a Ferrari from the same guy selling a used Honda? With nearly the same market speculation?

I am aware of this effect, but isn't saying nothing at all having nearly the same effect? I mean here I am, use me as a test subject. I'm not going to go buy a machine that's a year old when knowing the technology curve is about to be nearly doubled in raw computations.

 

[Tallest Skil]

osbourne effect, sure, but I remember knowing every feature of the iphone a year before it came out, or something like that, and that didn't stop a thing...

Because it didn't exist yet. Apple told us about it six months early, but what were we going to do? They weren't offering a phone to which the iPhone was an upgrade... All that that meant was we were going to not buy OTHER people's products, depriving them of money and giving more to Apple.

Then, Apple just stopped selling the iPhone two months early to preempt people waiting for the next one (in 2008).

 

[chedda]

Without the Mac Pro (or some headless desktop) Apple don't provide a proper hardware solution for their pro apps, so it is rather unlikely they will get rid of it.



You should make yourself very aware of what the Quadro cards offer on OSX before buying one. I'm not sure what you mean buy windows 7 throwing in the towel either. If you mean the card will be amazing on OSX you are likely mistaken. Apples drivers for Quadro cards appear to have been nothing better than those of the GeForce cards they share hardware with. 7800GT for the FX 4500 and 8800 series for the FX 5600. They do not offer application optimized and highly refined drivers like you get for windows.

IMO the only reason to buy the Quadro is if you plan on doing a lot of CAD/CAM work in Windows or have applications that can specifically use it's features. Even then the FX 5600, and FX 5800, are only worth it if you are doing really high end stuff. The lower end Pro cards from both Nvidia and ATI are more than enough for most professionals. Heck these days the consumer cards offer so much power a lot are happy just to use them as many 3D apps are moving away from OpenGL.

I currently use my power mac for 3D modelling and rendering so i realised this card isn't for gaming, i automatically assumed the cad drivers where cross platform. I know the 8800 gt doesn't play well with my software so i hoped the quadro would deliver. Are you really sure about the drivers ? of course i will watch the early adopters before doshing out !

 

[cybeross]

also, in regards to the "mac pro will be discontinued" I would say this: if apple does that, then it's certainly the beginning of the end, in my opinion. I think we are seeing signs of slippage here, the question is: are these signs part of a downward trend, or are they temporary? I understand it may be intel's fault, but video editing/pro audio without mac pro is very bad for apple's image of high-quality equipment. Although, if you check out the *enormous* list of features that have been requested for years for logic pro, then it's not so hard to believe that apple truly doesn't care about the high end anymore... I hope this is one prediction that doesn't come true, mainly, because I want a new mac pro like everyone else and can "afford" to wait but don't want to. My 2.4mbp just isn't enough, hence my constant refreshing this forum every day until something happens.

 

[BenRoethig]

I'd be very suprised if Apple don't go with dual IOHs. Not only is that design specifically intended for Workstations it would be a step backwards as the current Mac Pro supports 40 lanes.

36 lanes is in the north bridge and basically for graphics and an additional x4 slot. the ICH10 southbridge has an additional six lanes for 42 total. Dual north bridges would only be used if Apple intended to make all PCI slots x16.

Google "Osborne Effect".

If Apple releases info about the next model, all sales of the current model stop because people wait. Therefore, they make no money.

On the other, if they wait too long they could loose a sale with some that are on the fence (like the Mini). Thankfully, in this case, everyone is in the same boat as newer parts have not yet been released or sale.

 

[vogelhausdesign]

I guess I'm speaking for the people whom use Mac Pro on a more high end level, that being a machine costing more than $20,000 USD. I feel we should be marketed to differently, and not lumped in with the high school demographic. Apple is a company blessed with a diverse enough demographic to hold different generations of users, with vastly different needs, at different age groups.

Would you buy a Ferrari from the same guy selling a used Honda? With nearly the same market speculation?

I am aware of this effect, but isn't saying nothing at all having nearly the same effect? I mean here I am, use me as a test subject. I'm not going to go buy a machine that's a year old when knowing the technology curve is about to be nearly doubled in raw computations.

??

 

[Tallest Skil]

??

On what part are you confused, and perhaps we can try to explain it better.

 

[Umbongo]

I currently use my power mac for 3D modelling and rendering so i realised this card isn't for gaming, i automatically assumed the cad drivers where cross platform. I know the 8800 gt doesn't play well with my software so i hoped the quadro would deliver. Are you really sure about the drivers ? of course i will watch the early adopters before doshing out !

If you go looking for information on OSX Quadro drivers all you will find is anecdotal reports of the drivers being nothing more than GeForce drivers and benchmarks that put them barely above the GeForce cards.

It's a shame, but really there aren't many 3D apps for OSX compared to Windows so there isn't the market to create demand for the same quality of drivers. It shhuld be noted that Apple write the Nvidia drivers themselves which probably contributes to the lower quality and lack of optimization when compared to those for Windows.

 

[Umbongo]

36 lanes is in the north bridge and basically for graphics and an additional x4 slot. the ICH10 southbridge has an additional six lanes for 42 total. Dual north bridges would only be used if Apple intended to make all PCI slots x16.

Can those additional lanes on the southbridge be configured in an x4 slot, or are they limited to x1 only?

 

[vogelhausdesign]

On what part are you confused, and perhaps we can try to explain it better.

Nobody responded to my post, so I was using "??" as a bump to get a solution. To which no one has responded. Just curious..

We have a $30,000 spending limit for mac in 2009. I'd like to know if waiting is worth it.


Cory, Owner.
vogelhaus design
www.vogelha.us

 

[Tallest Skil]

Nobody responded to my post, so I was using "??" as a bump to get a solution. To which no one has responded. Just curious..

Oh, you quoted yourself... I didn't even notice.

Yes, I realize that Apple's secrecy doesn't work very well in your market. I'm sure that in December 2007 there were more than a few people who HAD to buy the horribly outdated 2006 Mac Pro simply for tax reasons before the end of the year, and then lo and behold the Penryn (current model) Mac Pro came out just a few days later...

I can't see Apple changing their mindset anytime soon, as they seem to think that a compromise in the area of workstations compromises everything else.

Just keep a close watch on Intel's chip release schedule, and know that anywhere from 6-13 weeks later we will see a new Mac Pro.

And... OH, YES. Waiting WILL be worth it.