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The Italians seem to be having a field day mocking English tactical stodginess and bigging up their own performance.

Am I the only one who was not much impressed with Italy (Pirlo's absolutely epic penalty dink aside)? They were definitely the better team, but to me they don't look even slightly likely to beat Germany. They have a few outstanding players but if England can hold them for 120 minutes they will struggle mightily against a markedly superior Germany (and if it goes to penalities...well, it's the Germans). I never root for the Italians in major tournaments anyway, so I hope the Germans teach them a humiliating lesson later this week.

In the end, England were fortunate to avoid humiliation at the hands of the Spanish or Germans. They come out of the tournament as a work in progress but at least they didn't get hammered by anyone (in terms of scorelines).

It's funny - the same journalists who liken strikerless Spain to an "art project" who pass too much are now damning England for passing too little. But I am sure that, had England beaten Italy, those same journalists would be hyping England as the international version of Chelsea - with a good shot of winning the tournament - and talking about how epic their defending is, and how economical they are with the small amount of posession they have. This stuff writes itself. :rolleyes:

EDIT: SPL clubs outside the Old Firm seem to have grown a pair and voted Rangers out of the SPL, or at least announced their intention to do so. The police have also opened a criminal investigation of Craig Whyte's ownership of the club.

I feel for those Rangers fans out there who are not blinded by partisanship or an unjustified sense of self-importance. It's terrible to see a club come apart at the seams like this. Unfortunately, from where I sit, it seems that most people involved in the club (the majority of fans included) are still blind to reality and think this is all unfair. I think a demotion from the SPL is justice for all the other clubs who actually run themselves properly.
 
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Am I the only one who was not much impressed with Italy (Pirlo's absolutely epic penalty dink aside)? They were definitely the better team, but to me they don't look even slightly likely to beat Germany. They have a few outstanding players but if England can hold them for 120 minutes they will struggle mightily against a markedly superior Germany (and if it goes to penalities...well, it's the Germans). I never root for the Italians in major tournaments anyway, so I hope the Germans teach them a humiliating lesson later this week.

...

If I would forget this tournaments Italy matches so far and only look at the one against England, I would say it is not so clear that Germany will win against Italy. Imagine only let's say 1/5 of those many chances would have been goals, Italy could overcome Germany. Though Germany's defence is not bad, they sometimes bring themselves into scary moments (of course one can maybe say, that this is because Germany does so much attacking). But then, if Germany attacks that much, Italy does have to do more for their defence, which in return stops them from coming in front of the German box so often, like they did with England. Further, if they then do not use their chances which will be less then in conclusion, it will be harder.
But then again I am asking myself, what if they both focus on attacking, will that equalize the strengths and chances? Hm, hard to say from my limited knowledge... maybe not, because Germany will utilize its midfield better(?).
Oh and then Germany happens to sometimes make things more complicated as it should be (I still do not know if that is due to relying on the main players and not bringing alternatives early that much - excluding the Greek match). Either it will get stringy/longsome or dogged/insistent with a lot of alarm in front of the Italian box.

I found both Italy and England better than in some matches before (including before this tournament).
 
If I would forget this tournaments Italy matches so far and only look at the one against England, I would say it is not so clear that Germany will win against Italy. Imagine only let's say 1/5 of those many chances would have been goals, Italy could overcome Germany.

True, but as you mentioned Germany have a lot more attacking firepower than England. They will push the Italians back into their own half and Pirlo will have no time on the ball like he did against the English. Gomez and Klose are better than any of England's strikers and Germany's defense is at least as good as England's. I fully expect a clear win by the end of the 90 minutes, a 2-0 or 3-1.

pachyderm said:
Did I mention that Dumbarton FC will be on FIFA 13 ?

Now you can see if Messi can do it on a cold, wet night in Dumbarton. :D
 
True, but as you mentioned Germany have a lot more attacking firepower than England. They will push the Italians back into their own half and Pirlo will have no time on the ball like he did against the English. Gomez and Klose are better than any of England's strikers and Germany's defense is at least as good as England's. I fully expect a clear win by the end of the 90 minutes, a 2-0 or 3-1.



Now you can see if Messi can do it on a cold, wet night in Dumbarton. :D

or frozen night...
 
People are making fun of Phil Brown again....though I have to say this time he sort of put his foot in it. Sorry Jaffa :eek:
Heh. I think he meant to say 'xenophobic' or something and got his words mixed up – or maybe he was thinking of Pirlo's team mate Antonio Cassano who I think made a bigger fool of himself there than Brown could ever manage.

Mind, it's easy to get mixed up. I assume the author of the Ramble blog is referencing Brown's end of season song when he calls him Phil 'Show me the way to go home' Brown – wrong song completely. :p

Did I mention that Dumbarton FC will be on FIFA 13 ?
If the cover doesn't feature a Sons player alongside Messi or whoever then I'm going to be very, very disappointed.
 
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True, but as you mentioned Germany have a lot more attacking firepower than England. They will push the Italians back into their own half and Pirlo will have no time on the ball like he did against the English. Gomez and Klose are better than any of England's strikers and Germany's defense is at least as good as England's. I fully expect a clear win by the end of the 90 minutes, a 2-0 or 3-1.

i think the big point for italy will be how they can adjust to the german game: opposed to Spain (playing through the middle) and England (high crosses from the wings , corners, free kicks) they like to mix it around and it depends a lot on "who" is going to play: Podolski, Gomez and Schürrle are perhaps easy to adjust to; Özil, Reus, Götze and to lesser degree Klose, Müller are annoying opponents

on the other side Germany will need to work against the hard working italian midfield a lot: Montolivo, de rossi marchisio are incredible in the engine room and work greatly to make room for Pirlo

tactically it will be interesting what setup italy chooses: 3-5-2 ? would give them enough players in the midfield center to counter Özil and Khedira/ Schweinsteiger forward runs but would leave the wings exposed to the Germans using their Fullbacks, Winger and Özil floating to the flanks
If they go for a 4-4-2 in diamond formation it would give away room in the center
IMHO Italy will only play with a single striker up front to compensate for the german flexibility and rather go for a 4-5-1/4-4-1-1 etc.
 
Heh. I think he meant to say 'xenophobic' or something and got his words mixed up – or maybe he was thinking of Pirlo's team mate Antonio Cassano who I think made a bigger fool of himself there than Brown could ever manage.

Very true RE: Cassano. Poor Phil. He is a bit silly at times, but doesn't deserve to be quite the media whipping boy that he is.
 
Did I mention that Dumbarton FC will be on FIFA 13 ?

What do you think of The Club Formally Known As Rangers being relegated 2 leagues below you?:p

I barely read about it anymore. From what I've heard, the SPL clubs have consulted their fans, and their fans have said they aren't going to renew their season tickets if Rangers are allowed back in the SPL. They cite "sporting integrity". These clubs include Hearts to repeatedly failed to pay their players on time, Hibs who have a convicted drug offender on the first team and Celtic who have concealed transfer payments through 3rd parties.:rolleyes:

Now I don't think Rangers should be going cap in hand around the SPL asking to be allowed back in, they ******** up and should do the honorable thing and apply to the SFL to get into the 3rd. But it looks like they won't get into the SPL and are now asking for direct entry into the 1st division.

Meanwhile, Dunfermline have been keen to point out that since Rangers won't be in the SPL they haven't really been relegated and they are they mysterious Team 12, much to Dundee's annoyance as they finished 2nd in the First Division. So expect that one to end up in the courts as well.

Life is simpler in the 3rd.
 
This story had me laughing, just picturing George graham spinning around in his chair facing the wall the snub Limpar on a hand shake.
I started reading the article and thought at first it was just sour grapes, I mean what really could Graham have done that was that bad?

Then he [Graham] would say: 'I have sold you to Leeds.'

The bastard! :eek:

Life is simpler in the 3rd.
Whilst it's not the Champions League at least Club 12 get to travel abroad to play a fixture against foreign opposition. :eek:
 
I started reading the article and thought at first it was just sour grapes, I mean what really could Graham have done that was that bad?

Then he [Graham] would say: 'I have sold you to Leeds.'

The bastard! :eek:

Whilst it's not the Champions League at least Club 12 get to travel abroad to play a fixture against foreign opposition. :eek:

Haha but at least back then Leeds was still fairly relevant.
 
What do you think of The Club Formally Known As Rangers being relegated 2 leagues below you?:p

I barely read about it anymore. From what I've heard, the SPL clubs have consulted their fans, and their fans have said they aren't going to renew their season tickets if Rangers are allowed back in the SPL. They cite "sporting integrity". These clubs include Hearts to repeatedly failed to pay their players on time, Hibs who have a convicted drug offender on the first team and Celtic who have concealed transfer payments through 3rd parties.:rolleyes:

Now I don't think Rangers should be going cap in hand around the SPL asking to be allowed back in, they ******** up and should do the honorable thing and apply to the SFL to get into the 3rd. But it looks like they won't get into the SPL and are now asking for direct entry into the 1st division.

Meanwhile, Dunfermline have been keen to point out that since Rangers won't be in the SPL they haven't really been relegated and they are they mysterious Team 12, much to Dundee's annoyance as they finished 2nd in the First Division. So expect that one to end up in the courts as well.

Life is simpler in the 3rd.

i'm still trying to sort it out meself.

sports are different here in the states. if the yankees went bust they'd find an owner. period. and no matter how bad the team itself was it wouldn't be relegted, of course.

i don't know/understand all that went wrong. is it just mismanaging money? is there some sort of cheating scandal(fixed matches)?

i can't see blaming/punishing the players and the fans for some greedy gaff the owners made.

so i don't think relegation is fair.

but maybe that is how it is done on your side of the pond.
 
i'm still trying to sort it out meself.

sports are different here in the states. if the yankees went bust they'd find an owner. period. and no matter how bad the team itself was it wouldn't be relegted, of course.
There's two sides to it, really.

On the one hand, if a club has done wrong financially then punishment is needed – otherwise it's not fair on those clubs who do things properly, live within their means and are generally responsible. What motivation is there to be a well run club if your rivals are bettering you thanks in part to dodgy goings on which they're going to get away with?

Of course though, owners and boards come and go, so do players (as we're seeing at the moment at Rangers as a number of the squad are refusing to transfer to the 'new' club). The one constant are supporters, who are the ones left picking up the pieces after those responsible are long gone.

In terms of relegation, it's a punishment that we can use here as there's a ladder/pyramid structure to our leagues that generally doesn't exist in American sports. For Rangers, this punishment will affect them in a number of ways – besides the ignominy it's going to hit them very hard financially, and as I mentioned earlier it seems likely that their better players are going to be able to walk away – not only weakening them considerably but meaning that they're potentially missing out on tens of millions in transfer fees.

i don't know/understand all that went wrong. is it just mismanaging money? is there some sort of cheating scandal(fixed matches)?
The boil in the bag answer is that they went into administration in the spring due to a very large and very unpaid tax bill, and went into liquidation after failing to get certain arrangements in place.
 
In terms of relegation, it's a punishment that we can use here as there's a ladder/pyramid structure to our leagues that generally doesn't exist in American sports. For Rangers, this punishment will affect them in a number of ways – besides the ignominy it's going to hit them very hard financially, and as I mentioned earlier it seems likely that their better players are going to be able to walk away – not only weakening them considerably but meaning that they're potentially missing out on tens of millions in transfer fees.

The degree to which you are punished often depends on your financial importance. Small clubs can be punished as an example to the larger ones. (Bitter and twisted person originally from Swindon here!)

The economics of football here though is crazy - I think Alan Sugar(?) memorably said it's prune juice economics - money is poured in at one end and squirts straight out the other (into the bank accounts of the players) without touching the sides.
 
Bert v Marwijk has put his list of players, who will never play again for the Netherlands; so long as he is coach.

Rafael van der Vaart (29 jaar, 99 interlands),
Joris Mathijsen (32 jaar, 82 interlands),
John Heitinga (28 jaar, 80 interlands),
Klaas-Jan Huntelaar (28 jaar, 56 interlands)
Khalid Boulahrouz (30 jaar, 35 interlands)
Dirk Kuyt (31 jaar, 90 interlands) serieus op de schopstoel zit.
 
Heh. :D

Any particular reason why these players have been singled out - arguments with van Marwijk, deemed to be not trying hard enough, not sharing sweets on the bus?

Rafael v/d Vaart, Klaas-Jan Huntelaar, became so disruptive in the squad because in their eyes they should have been in the first selection. (This a known fact and not some rumor.)
John Heitinga played even worse than the average bad Dutch player, plus it is widely thought that he was the source of the leaks during the EK. (this is not based on fact, but everybody believes it)(or it could have been his wife)
Joris Mathijsen is just too old
Khalid Boulahrouz is also just too old (Both these players were expected to see the light and leave themselves, they didn't so got shoved)
Dirk Kuyt it is not certain that he will leave immediately, he might stay for the qualifications for WK'14.

There will be more names later, the blood letting is still going on here.
 
Some did stick somewhere though, namely the player's PAYE which was deducted from their wages but never ended up in the coffers of HMRC.

There were two lots of shenanigans going on. The original owner David Murray took part in a scheme where wages were paid as invoices to offshore companies owned by the players and thus avoiding corporation tax. Rangers were not the only club to use this method. There is a £49m tax case outstanding on this matter (but it doesn't apply to the newco). So when the administrators were called in it surprised me as the HMRC can't force administration for corporation tax, only duty and income tax.

The second tax avoidance only came to light after the administrators were appointed for an £9m tax bill - this was income tax that should have been paid since the new owner Craig Whyte took over (as your statement above). So it looks like the new owner didn't pay any tax and indeed borrowed the money to buy the club from a 3rd party secured against future season ticket sales. Dastardly fellow.

Dirk Kuyt (31 jaar, 90 interlands) serieus op de schopstoel zit.
Seriously kick the chair?
Am I missing something in translation. 31 is not too old for international football. At least not in Scotland.
 
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Seriously kick the chair?
Am I missing something in translation. 31 is not too old for international football. At least not in Scotland.

Sorry it is not a word that is easily translated.

In Dutch it means the a position/job that is likely to be terminated at any moment without notice. :(
 
Bert v Marwijk has put his list of players, who will never play again for the Netherlands; so long as he is coach.

Rafael van der Vaart (29 jaar, 99 interlands),
Joris Mathijsen (32 jaar, 82 interlands),
John Heitinga (28 jaar, 80 interlands),
Klaas-Jan Huntelaar (28 jaar, 56 interlands)
Khalid Boulahrouz (30 jaar, 35 interlands)
Dirk Kuyt (31 jaar, 90 interlands) serieus op de schopstoel zit.

what is the dutch press' stand on Robben? Here in Germany he was called out for being too egoistic(even Beckenbauer accused him of that)not too long ago. The Netherlands are well advised to start on a clean slateand focus on young, hungry teamplayers(van Wolfswinkel, Wijnaldum and so forth) and maybe get away from their beloved 4-3-3 formation. I was actually surprised that van Marwijk didn't give any of the young players on the roster a chance to shine in the tournament.
 
what is the dutch press' stand on Robben? Here in Germany he was called out for being too egoistic(even Beckenbauer accused him of that)not too long ago. The Netherlands are well advised to start on a clean slateand focus on young, hungry teamplayers(van Wolfswinkel, Wijnaldum and so forth) and maybe get away from their beloved 4-3-3 formation. I was actually surprised that van Marwijk didn't give any of the young players on the roster a chance to shine in the tournament.

I only wrote about the official line, yes privately Robben is seen as a egotist, Robin v Persie also came in for criticism because of the way he handled the press.
G v/d Wiel is also in the spotlight because of his attitude to other players, constant with headphones on, and caring more about his outside business deals (clothing line)
Wilfred Bouma was also seen as a problem figure.
Ibrahim Afellay also caused a problem with his attitude, since he moved to Barcelona. He thought that he was better than every body else.

Wesley Sneijder was the only player who came out of this whole mess looking OK, this is the opinion of all parties.

There are three major fault lines in Dutch football at this moment, Ajax, PSV and then the foreign Stars. All this was hidden in 2010 while they were winning, but came to the top this time.

So you can see there is more poison to be drained from the open wound that is Dutch football at the moment.

I do hope that this has answered your question.
 
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