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The 2012-2013 Football Thread

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Meanwhile, Cardiff can only scrape a draw against Derby. Jaffa's boys might just break quite a few Welsh hearts this May...

takao said:
If Pepe had made that foul the english press would demand his head on a pike
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Very true.

Daneoni said:
Bayern already beat them a week or so back which to me signals a Madrid vs Bayern final.
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Which will be about as surprising as Man Utd winning the league. Though Barca are still capable of a comeback.
 
there can happen a lot until the final ... while Dortmund lost against Bayern, they are a mroe dangerous opponent this year in the CL simply for the fact that by now it's the only competition they have a chance left and they are much more experienced now
after all they won the group against the english, spanish and dutch champion

PSG and Juve are also opponents which have a shot to reach at least the semi finals

my absolute favorite for a CL final would be BVB vs. Schalke ... it would end with half a dozen red cards but it would be worth it
 
oscillatewildly said:
Imagine the Spanish press if De Gea had punched Pepe.
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Well, for starters, I'd clap approvingly. Few players deserve a thump as much as he, since he gives out so many.

But if you want to discuss the Spanish and English presses I'd say it's a dead heat as to who is craziest. ;) The Madrid papers will doubtless side with Roy Keane, and the match reports from England seem to be going a shade easy on Nani. I still think the call was technically within the laws of the game but a harsh one. In big games like this though, you never want the ref to have make such a call.
 
Lord Blackadder,

I'd have no problem Nani being sent off if Lopez had been dismissed for punching Vidic; the level set.

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Final, if Arsenal don't benefit from divine intervention, PSG v Juventus; for the chance to see Platini turn into a gibbering wreck, brain fried from constant orgasm, and his sorry lard arse body craned out of the stadium.

Cheers,
OW
 
oscillatewildly said:
Lord Blackadder,

I'd have no problem Nani being sent off if Lopez had been dismissed for punching Vidic; the level set.

---

Final, if Arsenal don't benefit from divine intervention, PSG v Juventus; for the chance to see Platini turn into a gibbering wreck, brain fried from constant orgasm, and his sorry lard arse body craned out of the stadium.

Cheers,
OW
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No keeper will be sent off for that, he was in the small box and he tried to punch the ball away.
 
oscillatewildly said:
Lord Blackadder,

I'd have no problem Nani being sent off if Lopez had been dismissed for punching Vidic; the level set.
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Didn't see the punch in real time, the photos look nasty..but refs always protect keepers, you know.

As for Platini, he sounds like an ass, and I'd dislike him more if it wasn't for FIFA's entire executive committee, the real-life SPECTRE. They make Platini sound like a saint.
 
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I think that the press can be just a bit too partisan sometimes.

This time it was a red card for Nani, back in 2010 de Jong stayed on the pitch.

He had a point. In defence of Cuneyt Cakir, the Turkish referee whose judgment will go down as having changed the complexion of the tournament, Howard Webb was pilloried after the 2010 World Cup final for not sending off Nigel de Jong for a high challenge.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ar...t-Cristiano-Ronaldo-scores.html#ixzz2MkQzoSAL.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...p-final-mistake-Nigel-Jongs-kung-fu-kick.html

You win some and you lose some, that's what makes football so entertaining.
 
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Jaffa Cake said:
The Wendies are a goal to the good. Good work, pachyderm and Fizzy. Keep it up.
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Thanks Murray! :rolleyes:

takao said:
really, a running kung fu kick in the chest is a disgraceful red card now? seriously ?
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A running kung fu kick, seriously?

I'm sure OW will testify that I'm certainly no Man U fan, but I think that red was very harsh. If there was intent, then yes, I'd have said red, but there wasn't. He was simply trying to control the ball, and wouldn't even have seen Arbeloa until after he'd already committed himself. If trying to control the ball like that is dangerous play then surely kicking the ball too hard is also dangerous, it could kill someone you know! ;)
 
Fizzoid said:
Thanks Murray! :rolleyes:



A running kung fu kick, seriously?

I'm sure OW will testify that I'm certainly no Man U fan, but I think that red was very harsh. If there was intent, then yes, I'd have said red, but there wasn't. He was simply trying to control the ball, and wouldn't even have seen Arbeloa until after he'd already committed himself. If trying to control the ball like that is dangerous play then surely kicking the ball too hard is also dangerous, it could kill someone you know! ;)
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that is right when i tuned in. did he have a yellow previously? was it a straight red? really turned the match the other way. what a shame.
 
jsolares said:
No keeper will be sent off for that, he was in the small box and he tried to punch the ball away.
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Measured by the Nani red; the player is deemed to be aware, and endangering is an offence regardless of intent - Nani clearly aims to control the ball, as Berbatov, Henry and others do/have done - the keeper trying to punch the ball doesn't cut it.




Fizzoid said:
A running kung fu kick, seriously?
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No rolling on the floor either, theatrical or otherwise.

Fizzoid said:
I'm sure OW will testify that I'm certainly no Man U fan ...
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But...oh...I thought...and I added you to my Christmas card list too!. :( :)

Cheers,
OW
 
FIFA law 12 says nothing about intent when it comes to fouls - except when it comes to handballs.

Looking at FIFA's official interpretation of Law 12, If a player is deemed to have been careless it's merely a foul. If a player is deemed to have been reckless, it's a yellow. If a player is deemed to have used excessive force, it's a red.

FIFA said:
"Using excessive force" means the player has far exceeded the necessary use of force and is in danger of injuring his opponent.
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It is still a subjective assessment; did Nani and de Jong "far exceed the necessary use of force"? Not really, if they were simply trying to control a ball with a high boot. Were they in danger of injuring their opponent? Absolutely. Trapping a ball with a high boot is no big deal when nobody is around you. But doing it while you're being challenged, with the result that you kung-fu kick your opponent in the chest could be construed to be excessive force for that situation.

Notice, again, that intent has nothing at all to do with it. It doesn't matter what Nani intended to do. All that matters is whether his contact with Arbeloa was careless, reckless, or used excessive force.

So many people in the media are arguing this call based on intent, and that is not fair on the referee because he is not permitted to make this call based on intent. That's not how Law 12 is supposed to be interpreted.
 
I think with intent, then if you 'intend' to kick someone it would be a red, as that (by the letter of the law) could be excessive force. IMO Nani didn't 'intend' to kick Arbeloa, so you could argue it was either reckless or careless, neither of which are a red
 
Fizzoid said:
I think with intent, then if you 'intend' to kick someone it would be a red, as that (by the letter of the law) could be excessive force. IMO Nani didn't 'intend' to kick Arbeloa, so you could argue it was either reckless or careless, neither of which are a red
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I would definitely call it reckless. Was if excessive force? Well, he certainly did not need to kick anyone in the chest to play the ball - that could be called excessive force. This is the crux of the rule - accidental contact can still get you cautioned or sent off. The point is to prevent players from being allowed to flail their arms or legs around, striking opponents and yet avoid punishment on the grounds that they didn't intend to hurt anyone. We've seen plenty of instances where players let fly with an elbow or hand, not intending to hit anyone per se but fully aware that they might.

The downside is that players will also get punished for totally accidental contact. Perhaps Nani is in this latter category. Like I've said before, I don't think the ref is technically wrong to award either a yellow or red here, though a red is on the harsh side given the way most other refs seem to call things.
 
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To add to the 'intent' and how it's being used, I think the point people are trying to make is that if Nani had seen Arbeloa coming, and still decided to jump, or move his foot towards Arbeloa, then that shows some intent, and would almost certainly deserve a red. I don't see how trying to control the ball in the way he did could be classed as 'excessive force' but then that's also open to a person's individual interpretation.

So if high feet with other players close by is dangerous play, does that mean we've seen the last of overhead kicks?

And as OW has eluded to, should keepers be earning cards for coming out and punching the ball? After all, it usually means other players are around, and if you punch someone in the head, isn't that using excessive force?
 
Lord Blackadder said:
Meanwhile, Cardiff can only scrape a draw against Derby. Jaffa's boys might just break quite a few Welsh hearts this May...
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Well one win in four can definitely be viewed as a wobble.:eek:
but fortunately for Cardiff ever other team in the league seems incapable of putting a string of wins together.

Cardiff already have more points than Blackpool did the year they went up.
 
takao said:
there can happen a lot until the final ... while Dortmund lost against Bayern, they are a mroe dangerous opponent this year in the CL simply for the fact that by now it's the only competition they have a chance left and they are much more experienced now
after all they won the group against the english, spanish and dutch champion

PSG and Juve are also opponents which have a shot to reach at least the semi finals

my absolute favorite for a CL final would be BVB vs. Schalke ... it would end with half a dozen red cards but it would be worth it
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Though I am not as knowledgeable as you all, I would agree here. That Bayern won in the DFB-Pokal Match against Dortmund, doesn't mean Dortmund won't be a hard opponent or even can't win anymore against Bayern in the CL.
The DFB match was a strange match for my eyes anyway.

Remember how Dortmund won against Bayern in the DFB-Pokal in 2012, it was 5:2 with Weidenfeller being injured and replaced by a goalkeeper that had not much playing time until then. Of course picking out this one game is a bit unfair, at least as far as Bayern had a season that ended in 2nd in every thing you could win this season. I guess, it was you Takao who presented that nice chart. In that season even Greuther Fürth from the second league gave Bayern a hard time, which is why I find it even more a pitty that Fürth is last place in the 1st league this year.

In 1 minute the algarve women's cup starts. Germany vs Denmark (a sneak preview of the Eurocup for both. Also Sweden and China play. The day after tomorrow Germany plays against Japan, really looking forward to this.
 
oscillatewildly said:
Measured by the Nani red; the player is deemed to be aware, and endangering is an offence regardless of intent - Nani clearly aims to control the ball, as Berbatov, Henry and others do/have done - the keeper trying to punch the ball doesn't cut it.
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How about the corner that shouldn't been on the first game that resulted on ManU goal?

How about the handball by raphael that should've been a penalty and a red?
FIFA said:
A player is sent off, however, if he prevents a goal or an obvious goalscoring
opportunity by deliberately handling the ball. This punishment arises not from
the act of the player deliberately handling the ball but from the unacceptable
and unfair intervention that prevented a goal being scored.
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Maybe Van Persie should've scored on all those opportunities he had, maybe ManU shouldn't have played with 8 players behind where the penalty box starts
 
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