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The 2012-2013 Football Thread

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Fizzoid said:
To add to the 'intent' and how it's being used, I think the point people are trying to make is that if Nani had seen Arbeloa coming, and still decided to jump, or move his foot towards Arbeloa, then that shows some intent, and would almost certainly deserve a red. I don't see how trying to control the ball in the way he did could be classed as 'excessive force' but then that's also open to a person's individual interpretation.
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the thing is: it simply doesn't matter if there was intent or not ...

2 former international Austrian Referees called it "a crystal-clear red card ... wether he saw him or not makes no difference"
"a decision justified by the rules, but not every Referee would give a red card ... it is irrelevant if Nani didn't saw Arbeloa, in this situation he has to expect another player and adjust his play accordingly"

not forgetting to hand out comments about pundits on austrian television "[He] has no idea. Those experts should study the rule book for once, before stating their opinions on television. Their viewers are believing what they tell as a fact."

humorous side note about the two austrian pundits:
- Toni Polster: who was drunk in the studio before (he apologized for it)
- Frenk Schinkels: former Dancing Star contestant :)rolleyes:), publicly confessed that while being a coach, "he filled up his water bottle half wine-half mineral water for the games, and was often drunk at the sideline"
 
jsolares said:
How about the handball by raphael that should've been a penalty and a red?
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was on the edge but "no penalty"is acceptable in my opinion

on the other side Ramos's foul against Evra in the 88-89th minute was a penalty IMHO

jsolares said:
Maybe Van Persie should've scored on all those opportunities he had, maybe ManU shouldn't have played with 8 players behind where the penalty box starts
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i think Manchester has a serious problem when facing a "man down" situation .. wasn't it similar against Bayern where after a player was sent off their tactics broke apart for 30 minutes ? on this level of play, a squad should be at least able to hold themselves together and try to get the 1 goal lead over the 90 minutes

after all they didn't lose a defensive midfielder or a central defender but simply an offensive winger

Mourinho reacted immediatly. He brought on Modric for a defender and once they had the lead he changed back to a more defensive line up with bringing on Pepe for an offensive player and restored the tactics to control the game more.

at times Real was playing nearly 2:2 on the back with Ramos/Varane against van Persie/Welbeck

fantastic game by Welbeck BTW
 
I don't like this new "nice" Mourinho, by the way. Bring back the nasty one. He could not be more obvious in his angling for the Man Utd job.

Fizzoid said:
To add to the 'intent' and how it's being used, I think the point people are trying to make is that if Nani had seen Arbeloa coming, and still decided to jump, or move his foot towards Arbeloa, then that shows some intent, and would almost certainly deserve a red. I don't see how trying to control the ball in the way he did could be classed as 'excessive force' but then that's also open to a person's individual interpretation.
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I think it's impossible to judge Nani's intent or whether he saw Arbeloa. Only Nani knows that. I highly doubt he intended to kick Arbeloa. But he probably stuck his foot out knowing that there was a risk of that happening.

And, as you say, the judgment is left open to interpretation and intentionally so. Refs are deliberately given latitude and in this case the decision was on the strict side.

Fizzoid said:
So if high feet with other players close by is dangerous play, does that mean we've seen the last of overhead kicks?
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Or, as OW said, keeper punches?

Good questions. That reminds me of two incidents: Drogba getting knocked out cold by a John Ruddy punch and Demba Ba getting kicked in the face by Coloccini. In both cases both players had a right to go for the ball, in both cases one player got clocked and in both cases no cards were assigned.

The only difference between these incidents and the Nani affair is that they happened in or around the box during scoring opportunities. I think refs tend to be a little more lenient with a 50/50 ball that is being attacked by two players during a goal scoring opportunity. Nani's foul happened far from goal.

So I think refs will always judge keeper punches and wild kicks in the box differently than similar contact in midfield. The rules are interpreted differently in different parts of the field and at different stages of the game. That's part of the human element of refereeing.
 
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Lord Blackadder said:
Good questions. That reminds me of two incidents: Drogba getting knocked out cold by a John Ruddy punch and Demba Ba getting kicked in the face by Coloccini. In both cases both players had a right to go for the ball, in both cases one player got clocked and in both cases no cards were assigned.

The only difference between these incidents and the Nani affair is that they happened in or around the box during scoring opportunities. I think refs tend to be a little more lenient with a 50/50 ball that is being attacked by two players during a goal scoring opportunity. Nani's foul happened far from goal.

So I think refs will always judge keeper punches and wild kicks in the box differently than similar contact in midfield. The rules are interpreted differently in different parts of the field and at different stages of the game. That's part of the human element of refereeing.
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true that ...
let's face in the 5 meter small box 99.99% of all professional keepers will try to punch/save/catch a high cross
those who don't aren't going to have a contract for a long time

If you go for a header in that area getting into contact with the keeper is inevitable. For a field player it's always a risk since it could possibly count as a foul (most of the times) or it will really hurt. Vidic is a professional and a smart one at that, and he took the chance. I think neither side would be sour after such a situation.

(Mandzukic won such a header against the keeper in the Arsenal game inside the 5 meter box and thus created a goal ...)


edit: and PSG are through... but seriously if they play like that against opponents like BVB or Real (or possibly Bayern or Barca) they will get eaten alive
without Ibrahimovic they are half as good
 
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jsolares said:
How about the corner that shouldn't been on the first game that resulted on ManU goal?

How about the handball by raphael that should've been a penalty and a red?


Maybe Van Persie should've scored on all those opportunities he had, maybe ManU shouldn't have played with 8 players behind where the penalty box starts
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How about the Real Madrid defender not being sent off in the first leg? How about how the bookings were handed out in that game? How about the whistle going before the corner at the end of the first match - didn't happen in the games tonight. How about Lopez staying on and no penalty in the first half of the second leg? How about Arbeloa on Evra? How about Arbeloa rolling around? How about the penalty foul on Evra? How about, how about?

takao,

Re earlier post - my gripe is with kung fu kick and rolling around.

Man down - it was v Bayern Munich. They used to be better at it. Emotions took hold for ten minutes yesterday. On decision making, Ferguson needs a strong number two by his side to give him a nudge; it was exposed last season v Everton - defence poor all game, manage to get a 4-2 lead, nothing done, ends 4-4 and gives Manchester City their chance.

First full game I've seen of PSG, as you say, poor.

---

Howard Webb - the best days are gone.

999 Call - up there with the calls complaining about incorrect/delayed food orders, requests for a lift because they are late, asking for a half-time score, and so on.

On a light note, just seen the Dennis Bergkamp statue - good timing :D.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mobileweb/2013/02/27/dennis-bergkamp-statue_n_2772214.html

Cheers,
OW
 
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daneoni said:
...and of course UEFA have predictably started acting UEFA-like.
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I don't see what your problem is, rules are rules.

Back to football I was very disappointed it the PSG vs Valencia game, PSG did the deed that was asked of them, but it was not a pretty sight.

Celtic well at least they had a go, Juventus was just to much for them.
 
Bah, seems like sth worth talking about. moved the apartment and have no telly yet..booooring! But fun to read :D
 
Happybunny said:
I don't see what your problem is, rules are rules.

Back to football I was very disappointed it the PSG vs Valencia game, PSG did the deed that was asked of them, but it was not a pretty sight.

Celtic well at least they had a go, Juventus was just to much for them.
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i enjoyed the PSG match. but yer right.

celtic. there is a reason the SPL only gets one team in (i think they only get one, right?) .

i've started a debate on another board about the quality of play in the SPL and how it is, IMHO, no better than the MLS here in the states. And that the top 4 teams here could handle the top 4 in the SPL. Celtic being the one exception of course. I'm sure they would do well against the MLS's big four.
 
The Spurs-Inter match should be a decent show, though with Spurs on track for a CL place they will be crowding their schedule if their Europa League run continues.

oscillatewildly said:
It'll be interesting to see how it compares with fines for racism.
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Let's put it this way: I'll bet Ferguson would gave gotten out of this more cheaply had he made monkey chants and thrown bananas on the pitch. :(
 
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oscillatewildly said:
How about the Real Madrid defender not being sent off in the first leg? How about how the bookings were handed out in that game? How about the whistle going before the corner at the end of the first match - didn't happen in the games tonight. How about Lopez staying on and no penalty in the first half of the second leg? How about Arbeloa on Evra? How about Arbeloa rolling around? How about the penalty foul on Evra? How about, how about?
Cheers,
OW
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Heh, ManU didnt lose because calls didn't go their way, both teams had a lot of bad calls against them.

ManU lost because they stopped playing their game and decided to give the ball AND the field to madrid, this started even before nani got sent off, it got worse once he got sent off, in modrics goal they had 8 players in the last 16.5mts/18yds, and after they got behind they suddenly could attack madrid which got saved by the keeper. both visiting keepers made a lot of difference on both games.

Looking at the second goal, they also had 8 players in the last 16mts and madrid still scored that goal
 
jsolares said:
Heh, ManU didnt lose because calls didn't go their way, both teams had a lot of bad calls against them.

ManU lost because they stopped playing their game and decided to give the ball AND the field to madrid, this started even before nani got sent off, it got worse once he got sent off, in modrics goal they had 8 players in the last 16.5mts/18yds, and after they got behind they suddenly could attack madrid which got saved by the keeper. both visiting keepers made a lot of difference on both games.

Looking at the second goal, they also had 8 players in the last 16mts and madrid still scored that goal
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The red card prevents us from really knowing what was going to happen. Ferg had set his team up very well to frustrate Real and the Spanish side did not score until after the red card.

With that being said, Madrid did not at all look like they were out of it and Mourinho's tactical shift after the red card was superb.

While Man Utd had a small advantage in terms of the run of play before the red card I don't think anyone can say with any degree of certainty how the game was set to end had it remained 11 v 11. I would still have backed Real to at least send it into extra time. They simply have too much quality to get shut out, even at Old Trafford.
 
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Lord Blackadder said:
Let's put it this way: I'll bet Ferguson would gave gotten out of this more cheaply had he made monkey chants and thrown bananas on the pitch. :(
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While I will concede that UEFA are notoriously bad with fines for racist chants.:mad:

But my point still stands, SAF has been in breach of UEFA rules, and they cannot let that slide, SAF is not above the law. If he cannot handle a press conference after a match, maybe it is time to stop.

(I have read whether true or not that the FA are always soft on Man.Utd/SAF)
 
Happybunny said:
While I will concede that UEFA are notoriously bad with fines for racist chants.:mad:

But my point still stands, SAF has been in breach of UEFA rules, and they cannot let that slide, SAF is not above the law. If he cannot handle a press conference after a match, maybe it is time to stop.

(I have read whether true or not that the FA are always soft on Man.Utd/SAF)
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It really is something of a double standard. If managers like Wenger, Benitez, Mancini and others are obliged to attend press conferences, Fergie should as well. If he can't control himself at press conferences maybe he needs a life coach.

On the one hand I don't blame Ferguson for wanting to avoid the media sometimes, especially when they are trying to squeeze a juicy outburst from him that could get him into hot water. But fair is fair. He shouldn't be allowed to flout the rules. It's obvious that the club does almost nothing about it either.
 
The Anzhi - Newcastle match sounds incredibly dull so far...Scotland fans will recognize Pardieu's 4-6-0 formation but I'm guessing we aren't going to see too many goals here.
 
A scoreless draw in Russia...Newcastle can easily be dumped out by an away goal from Anzhi in the second leg, and if they keep playing without strikers one wonders how they will get through.

Chelsea still misfiring but if they can score a 1-1 result would favor them going into the second leg.
 
jsolares said:
Heh, ManU didnt lose because calls didn't go their way, both teams had a lot of bad calls against them.

ManU lost because they stopped playing their game and decided to give the ball AND the field to madrid, this started even before nani got sent off, it got worse once he got sent off, in modrics goal they had 8 players in the last 16.5mts/18yds, and after they got behind they suddenly could attack madrid which got saved by the keeper. both visiting keepers made a lot of difference on both games.

Looking at the second goal, they also had 8 players in the last 16mts and madrid still scored that goal
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The small list is in response to you bringing up other incidents.

I disagree about before the sending off, it is near enough going to plan; especially Welbeck on Alonso - his defending and springing into attack. Both teams are in it, but I'm happy Manchester United are edging the game. It is the ten minutes after, the decision stunned them; doing so because it was shocking.

---

Edit:

Bertrand still on the pitch?

Yep LB, the Newcastle United game had very little.

Cheers,
OW
 
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Off we go in London.

EDIT: And Bale has already scored. That didn't take long...

EDIT2: Bale booked for diving, that's going to be a 1 match ban. But Sigurdsson scores to make it 2-0. Inter are going to suffer a rout if they are not careful now. AVB's job now is to try to get Spurs to run up the score so he can rest players.

oscillatewildly said:
I disagree about before the sending off, it is near enough going to plan; especially Welbeck on Alonso - his defending and springing into attack.
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What's your take on the Rooney backlash? Media BS, or do you think Rooney's stock is rapidly declining?
 
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LB - Rooney:

He had a stinker in the first leg, ill for QPR - came on but didn't look fit for a pub team, and had good moments v Norwich City. Fitness/form + Welbeck playing well and having done a marking job before + impact as a sub/eye on extra time, seems reasonable but doesn't sell papers/fill 24 hour news.

Edit -

Jaffa Cake - images saved for...erm...later. :eek:

The Spurs tie should be over.

Cheers,
OW
 
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