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The 2013-2014 MLB Hot stove Thread
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Wasn't DiceK good until the WBC, isn't that what killed his arm.Haha, so the Yankees just blew 155 million on the next DiceK?
They'll never learn.
He was good his first two years.
After that, he lost his control and ended up walking like 10 guys a game. Could barely make it through 5 innings because he couldn't hit the strike zone.
I don't know if you can blame the WBC directly but it probably had an effect. So did the way Japanese baseball teams manage their pitchers. They don't limit pitch counts and give them nearly as much rest as teams do over here.
He just threw way too many pitches when he was younger and his arm was burned out by 2009.
That's probably going to be a concern with Tanaka also. He's only 25, but he has a lot of pitches under his belt. Darvish did as well, and he's thriving right now.
Frankly, the Yankees can afford the gamble and they know the $$ they can get in the Japanese market with a high profile player on their team. Also, 155 million is cheap when it can buy the Yanks any press that ISN'T about A Rod.
Guess that whole being under the luxury tax thing was a pile of crap. 
Completely typical Yankees move. How much have they spent this offseason? $477 million? $65 hojillion?
That said, they'll continue to have cycles of a couple of years of success followed by frenzied overspending to make up for their old ass talent until they re-commit to their farm system. If they were the Cardinals, I'd worry. But they haven't had a Michael Wacha type in an eternity, and it's rad.
<----- In the meantime, peep the avatar.
Completely typical Yankees move. How much have they spent this offseason? $477 million? $65 hojillion?That said, they'll continue to have cycles of a couple of years of success followed by frenzied overspending to make up for their old ass talent until they re-commit to their farm system. If they were the Cardinals, I'd worry. But they haven't had a Michael Wacha type in an eternity, and it's rad.
<----- In the meantime, peep the avatar.
Guess that whole being under the luxury tax thing was a pile of crap.
That said, they'll continue to have cycles of a couple of years of success followed by frenzied overspending to make up for their old ass talent until they re-commit to their farm system. If they were the Cardinals, I'd worry. But they haven't had a Michael Wacha type in an eternity, and it's rad.
<----- In the meantime, peep the avatar.
Sometimes it works! As it did in 2009. And sometimes it doesn't!! Last year, with all of the injuries they had, they really had no business even playing meaningful games in the last month but they were. Which is a bit of a testament to management. They found guys (some scrapheap guys and some farm guys) to fill in the blanks.
It's extremely hard for a big market team to totally commit to their farm system. You guys have spent money to supplement the younger guys as well. And let's be honest, the Red Sox are a top 4 or 5 salary team as well, so it's hard to throw stones.
That said, we'll see some of their own guys in key spots this year (including the starting rotation and the end of the rotation, SS!, and LF). I think they've had an issue producing position players (they're still in love with Eduardo Nunez and they just lost a home grown guy to FA) but scouting can certainly be hit or miss. They had high hopes for their catchers (and gave them plenty of opportunity last year) and they just didn't produce. There are also a few outfielders on the horizon.
As you know, because it's not much different in Boston, the Yankees are in a position where they just can't "rebuild". If they have a competitive team on the field they'll obviously get a much higher return on their investment.
I'd be much more ticked off if the Yanks made all of this money and didn't try to put it back on the field (like other teams do).
I also think it's ironic that they may not have offered the most money. Obviously Tanaka knows that the evil empire is where it's at.
I also think somewhere deep down that the louder you Sox fans moan and complain about the "typical yankees", the more worried you are....
Sure, it works short-term. For the price of elderly suckitude soon after, and also the price of your souls (A-Rod).
Moyank24 said:
Well, unlike the Yankees, the Red Sox can't just print money. The luxury tax actually means something. So yeah, sorry, but they're not the same. The Yankees 2013 payroll was $70 million more than the Red Sox, and (LOL) $171 million more than the Rays. You honestly don't think even that $70 million is a huge advantage? That's like 2 aces and an all-star OF. Saying those payrolls are essentially the same is as disingenuous as me saying the Red Sox don't have a huge advantage over the Rays due to $ disparity.
Moyank24 said:
I'm with you on this one (see: Astros). However, the Yankees also have more money to spend than other teams. It's just the facts. Not all owners of small market teams aren't spending the money they do have. You guys are just the rich kid shopping at Barney's while most of the rest of the class shops at Target. Accept your extreme privilege and advantage, because that's totally what it is.
Moyank24 said:I also think somewhere deep down that the louder you Sox fans moan and complain about the "typical yankees", the more worried you are....
I don't think any Red Sox fan thought the Yankees would sit on their crappy team and not doing anything. Going into full on Augustus Gloop mode was basically a given - but in terms of moves, it doesn't worry me as much as if they'd done some maneuvering to acquire top flight MLB-tested young pitching. Japanese pitchers are a total gamble, so we'll see. For now, I'm not overly concerned.
As for my team, been there, done that. With the new posting rules, it's a prohibitively expensive gamble. I'd rather the Red Sox keep forging ahead with a strong farm and complimentary free agents - spending big when there's a chance to acquire truly special FA talent.
I get that - but if you look at the teams in the playoffs, they pretty much all had at least 2 homegrown, dominant starters. This is not the way to build a team nowadays. At least not if you want long-term success. Which is why this move doesn't scare me all that much.
I mean, the Yankees just paid a guy who has never thrown a pitch in MLB nearly the same as the Mariners paid to extend Felix Hernandez. LOL. Come on.
In any case, it appears the idea of the Yankees staying under the luxury tax has been effectively abolished. I wonder if they'll go on a complete spending spree to fill the rest of their holes.
Oh I agree they need they need to rebuild their farm system and develop elite pitchers.
But, given the prospects of getting elite MLB pitchers over the next few years, there wasn't much choice. Any elite pitcher that was about to hit FA was locked up.
But, given the prospects of getting elite MLB pitchers over the next few years, there wasn't much choice. Any elite pitcher that was about to hit FA was locked up.
Since 2009, they've won 1 World Series and played in 2 ALCS's so it's hard to argue that the Yankees haven't had long term success with their MO. It's also hard to argue that a lot of that long term success wasn't built on the backs of homegrown guys.
But, then again, one of the advantages in having so much to spend is the ability to keep those home grown guys long term. And even at the beginning of their run, they made moves with their farm to acquire guys who stayed long term - like Paul O'Neill and Tino Martinez.
I agree the Yankees are swimming with riches - they have a new stadium, a great cable deal, and great world wide merchandising. I've never disputed that. And i also realize that a $70 million difference is a lot (and never said they were the same), but the Red Sox aren't resting on their laurels either, (give them a new stadium and see how much more they'd be spending), and haven't in this era. Manny, David Ortiz, and Schilling weren't exactly cheap and there wouldn't have been championships without them.
In terms of the rest of the Yanks' holes (3B and 2B), it looks like they'll work with what they have, so there's that.
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And it's not like the Rays are going to trade Price within their division. At least I wouldn't think so.
Their farm system has developed some decent pitchers, as we saw last year. Phelps, Kelly, and Warren will probably get a chance for the 5th spot or 7th/8th inning. And this may be the season we finally see if Betances and Banuelos are truly busts. Nova is a lock for a spot, and I think I'd call Robertson elite. So, it's not like they haven't built contributors down there.
I'm also still waiting to see what happens with Pinenda, who was basically swapped for equally young guys.
Our farm system has produced decent 4-5 starters. What we need though is an elite ace. We need a King Felix or a Kershaw, etc. Number 4 or 5 starters are easy to come by than a legitimate #1 or #2 guy. That is why we didn't trade Gardner because he isn't worth giving up for a #4 or #5 starter. The Yankees need to be looking for #1 or #2 guys. Right now they are covered if CC can bounce back, Kuroda can get back to his 2012-first half of 2013 form, and Tanaka pans out.
I think Pineda has become the favorite to be our 5th starter with Phelps second and Warren last now with Tanaka on board. Phelps has been decent before getting hit by that come backer this year.
Yankees Reach Deal With Tanaka for $155 Million!
Tanaka will be allowed to become a free agent after one year in the Bronx. The Yankees will pay an additional $20 million to the Rakuten Eagles, Tanakas former team in Japan, as part of the new posting agreement between Major League Baseball and Japanese clubs.
Big deal, isn't it?
Tanaka will be allowed to become a free agent after one year in the Bronx. The Yankees will pay an additional $20 million to the Rakuten Eagles, Tanakas former team in Japan, as part of the new posting agreement between Major League Baseball and Japanese clubs.
Big deal, isn't it?
Once the Red Sox won the World Series I knew the Yankees were going to throw open the check book. Any other team and they might have pinched some pennies. Plus last year they held back and that got them nowhere. Even when they said this year they wanted to be under 189 it was obvious that they were not going to hold to it. They could have signed Cano and really blown out the books but what stopped them was the 10 year mark. Time will tell if the Yankees made the right decision there. Short term it might bite them in the ass but we shall see what year 6 looks like on that contract.Guess that whole being under the luxury tax thing was a pile of crap.
That said, they'll continue to have cycles of a couple of years of success followed by frenzied overspending to make up for their old ass talent until they re-commit to their farm system. If they were the Cardinals, I'd worry. But they haven't had a Michael Wacha type in an eternity, and it's rad.
<----- In the meantime, peep the avatar.
Haha, so the Yankees just blew 155 million on the next DiceK?
They'll never learn.
What? This is huge news and the biggest story of the offseason.
I don't know. WS in '96, '98, '99, '00, '09. Their big gambles taking in high profile players sometimes pay and they also fail but you can't argue with long term success. We could talk all day about A-Rod but it did help the Yankees win their last one.
Getting Tanaka may not ensure a WS but it will probably mean long term domination of the Yankees over the Red Sox which is something they usually have had historically. The Red Sox have had their best years since their decades long drought so the Yankees want Tanaka to even out Boston if nothing more than that.
I am glad the LA Dodgers didn't get Tanaka and when the bidding got hot it was the Cubs and Yankees anyway so that made me happy. I don't know about what will happen to other teams in the AL East with the pitcher on the Yankees but had Tanaka gone to the Dodgers, the pair of Tanaka and Kershaw would doom the SF Giants for at least the next five years.
My prediction is that the Yankees will totally dominate their division with #1 or #2 standings for a long time and get at least one WS win with him. Of all teams who got Tanaka, it's no surprise it was New York but probably the team most of us here would have least liked him to end up with. The only reason I say one WS is that there is a lot of talent everywhere else, too at Texas, Oakland, and Detroit so the Tanaka thing will be felt most in the AL East.
They didn't have big signings in 96,98,99,2000. They had a supporting cast but a lot of those teams were won with home grown talent and not over priced free agents.
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Some of these things...
63dot said:
...are not like the others. 96-2000 was their dynasty, built on a core of players brought up through their system, supported by prudent free agent signings that were complimentary, not "best player available at their position at max dollars," typically 30+, like they do now. This was when they were dangerous. And as a Red Sox fan, annoying as hell.
It's completely different from 2009, when it was the A-Rod, CC Sabathia, Teixeira party. The difference maker, in my opinion, was Sabathia that year. He was a true ace, and they were able to just buy him.
It was/is unusual for a pitch of Sabathia's caliber to be available at age 27 now. So I don't think banking on being able to buy an ace every year is a great long-term strategy. Ellsbury is 30 - they signed him for 7 years. McCann will be 30 in a month, etc. etc. Even with Sabathia, you're getting more years at 30+ than at 20+. And Sabathia had a terrible year last year at age 33, with a ton of innings on his arm.
63dot said:
LOL. Yeah, okay. Tanaka means long term domination over the Red Sox? They still have holes. They traded their best offensive player, who was in his 20s, for a lesser (although great) offensive player in his 30s who has durability issues. Their ace is coming off a questionable season, and you're banking on a Japanese pitcher with 1,315 IP before age 25 (only been done by 3 pitchers in MLB in the last 50 years - source) causing domination by the Yankees over the Red Sox? Again, LOL.
63dot said:
Well, good luck with that prediction. You also predicted the Red Sox to lose last season and at every step of the playoffs, so maybe you're like a reverse Nostradamus.
Only time will tell. You can't be happy about the Yankees getting Tanaka and if this is no concern then I say you are a complete fool. I was scared the Dodgers would get him but was relieved when it wasn't. All my Giants fan buddies were also scared of Tanaka going to LA, too because believe it or not, even though he hasn't played MLB, he's a very good pitcher.
Sure if Tanaka came to the Dodgers they could still do poorly against the Giants because the Dodgers have "holes". But suffice to say, I am happy Tanaka is not wearing Dodger blue. I will see what the experts say are the holes, because when you criticize the Yankees it's because you hate them and think they can't ever do good, well, because they are the Yankees. It's OK to hate a team, and I totally assume from all I have read it's the Yankees, but don't disrespect them. Take a look at the historical head to head between you and them and then try to minimize Tanaka. Anyway, thanks for the laugh.
To say that the Tanaka signing is going to result in years of domination is absurd. And any true, intelligent Yankees fan will tell you the same thing.
As much as I think it was a risk worth taking, it was still a risk. Who knows how long the adjustment to pitching every 5 days, the mounds, the hitters in the AL East, etc.. will take. He's a 25 year old with upside, but until he faces MLB batters every 5 days, we just don't know.
Are the Yanks going to be competitive? Definitely. They were surprisingly competitive last year with 8 scrubs + Cano. Frankly, I know there are some who say the Yanks have holes in their infield, but if everyone else stays healthy (and as we saw last year with every freak injury, anything can happen) I don't think the offense will be an issue. I'd rather have guys at 2nd and 3rd who can play solid defense and get on base every once in a while. I think we'll also be able to get a look at young guys like Nunez (again!) and Anna.
That said, they're not even going to be a favorite in their division next year, let alone a runaway division winner. The Rays just added Balfour to an already amazing pitching staff - their offense is always a question mark, but they added Loney and they still have Longoria. And who knows? Maybe the rest of the guys can find lightning in a bottle (like a few guys did last year for the Sox, which certainly helped). And the Sox have a great rotation and an annoyingly good offense, (and obviously younger, too, than the Yanks) and would make a much better argument for "years of domination".
The Yanks are still old and their starting pitching is still going to be a question mark. I think the Pen will be solid and will hopefully shorten games for the starters. CC has lost a person this offseason, so who knows if that will help him or hurt him. Kuroda has tanked the past 2 seasons in the second half. Nova can be brilliant at times, but is still a 3 or 4 starter at best right now. I won't believe Pineda is a Yankee until I actually see him pitch. To batters. And of course there's Tanaka. I actually wouldn't mind seeing a 6 man rotation of sorts - to help both Kuroda, Tanaka, and Pineda (if he makes an appearance). They have enough pitching to do it - they can switch out Warren, Phelps, or Claiborne if they needed to between the 6th and long relief.
As someone who struggles through every Yankees game last year, I'm just excited at the prospect of a season with so many new faces. And hopefully less injuries. I swear, I don't think I've seen as many freak injuries in the last 10 years on the Yanks as we saw last year.
Sorry about the injuries. People don't usually think of baseball as one with injuries as much as the NFL. But on an ABC medical talk show the host was outlining how more games are missed of affected by injury in baseball than most sports, including the NFL. Beyond the effect of injuries, I usually make bold predictions concerning the Yankees and, unfortunately more than not, the Yankees do better than the "experts" seem to predict every year. Why is that?
I would say, "Good luck later this year with the Yankees" but my wife will ride on me all year again if her Yankees get into the postseason which is usually quite common versus my Giants rarely getting there. That being said she's from the region in Manhattan when the NY (baseball) Giants played in her neighborhood, yet she's a Yankee. Her uncle was also the Red Sox chairman of the board for a time (giving us tickets anytime, forever) but that didn't sway her either! We are on the west coast so it doesn't matter anyway. I tried to make her at least root for Boston then, but that was a no go.
No matter who you guys have in the Bronx, with all things being equal, there's an x-factor your team has that is usually good for a few extra games. A few extra games, whether it's a certain pride you have unlike any other team or from a guy like Tanaka promises (thus the big payday), is what makes the difference in winning your division or missing a the wild card. Yes, there are teams like last year's fabulous Red Sox or 2012's SF Giants both having unexpected Cinderella years and getting the prize but there are many years where both teams were more equipped yet missed the postseason. Not only does NY Yankees as a team get to postseason with a good team, they have also got there and done well on off years. One can explain some years the Yankees had in the 1950s and 1970s but other years are a mystery. No matter who gets hurt, or how much turmoil there is with management, the Yankees seem to rise above it unlike any other team. I think that's why a lot of people don't like them.
The Yankees winning so many WS has been helped by a big bank, for sure, but that still can't explain so many wins. There's that "damn Yankee" factor that continues to stun and upset so many of us outside the Yankee universe. Atlanta Braves fans will understand this with tons of wins during their most dominant of pitching dynasties not many years ago which only produced one World Series win. And fans of my SF Giants, with more hall of famers than any other MLB team, has had great coaches and players yet only can show 7 for 19 in WS wins versus appearances so there's a lot of jealousy when you guys won more than 2/3rds of your many visits. The best we can do in SF is bask in the glory of two recent WS wins knowing that this will probably never happen again in our lifetimes. The stars lined up for us, like they did for the Blue Jays once, and currently the Red Sox in the last ten years. But over in NY, you guys will win another one within a decade, and if like most decades of your existence, will win more than one. Nothing in your winning ways will change over the long term, even if you miss the 2014 postseason and Tanaka has a rough start.
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Tanaka will be allowed to become a free agent after one year in the Bronx. The Yankees will pay an additional $20 million to the Rakuten Eagles, Tanakas former team in Japan, as part of the new posting agreement between Major League Baseball and Japanese clubs.
Big deal, isn't it?
Madness!
Of course I'm not happy the Yankees got Tanaka. But a) it was kind of a foregone conclusion, and b) he is a wholly unknown quantity. He could be Yu Darvish, he could be Daisuke Matsuzaka. What I do know is he's thrown A LOT of innings already, and he's used to pitching once a week. Assuming he'll automatically be an ace, and the reason the Yankees "dominate" the Red Sox for the foreseeable future is totally ridiculous and not based in baseball reality.
No sh** Sherlock, he's been a good pitcher. But MLB is an entirely different beast - ask all the other highly touted Japanese pitchers who came over and were complete busts. The possibility for him to be great is certainly there, but it's not a complete given like you're assuming. And there will be an adjustment period regardless.
63dot said:
Yeah, you should probably do some reading before you assume you know everything - also, you clearly know nothing about my position on sports. I dislike the Yankees, yes, because they're our rivals. But just like I give the Jets, Giants, Lakers, etc. credit where it's due, my analysis of the Yankees is also based in fact. Moyank24 and I may disagree, but it's really more than "you suck" back and forth. Just because I respect her and the Yankees doesn't mean I have to like them (or kiss their butt up and down this thread like some people).
63dot said:
What does the historical head to head between the Red Sox and Yankees have to do with Tanaka's success in major league baseball? This makes no sense at all. Is Scott Brosius going to help him throw offspeed to David Ortiz?
Exactly. Of course, there's a decent chance he'll be as good as advertised, too. Which would be totally annoying.
But that "domination" thing he was pulling was hilariously dumb.Moyank24 said:
I agree. And I'd argue it was a risk the Yankees pretty much had to take. But yeah, it's "to be continued" on just how good he'll be.
Moyank24 said:
I think people forget the Rays were the favorite last year. They underachieved, in my opinion, and the Red Sox overachieved. I think, depending on who else the Red Sox add (if any) we might see some regression back to normal there. That's just me being completely honest. We're depending on a bunch of rookies. Which will be fun, but I don't see 97 wins, personally.
"Years of domination" is ridiculous. No one who knows anything about the AL East would ever believe that. The Rays, Yankees, and Red Sox will be duking it out for the foreseeable future - and the Orioles and Blue Jays are just as capable of winning on any given day, and for turning their teams around quick. The Orioles have always given us trouble. It's definitely one of the toughest, most competitive divisions.
Moyank24 said:
I'll miss Ells, not going to lie. Emotionally as a fan, it sucks. Intellectually, I understand letting him go made sense with Jackie Bradly, Jr. in the wings. And the Sox signed Grady Sizemore to replace the attractiveness for the pink hat contingent.