The 2015-2016 Football Thread

[Scepticalscribe]

Leicester were very, very lucky today. They failed to put the game away several times and Sunderland's Rodwell missed the king of sitters. Vardy finally got the insurance goal at the very end.

But I don't care, I want Leicester to win the title. They can have all the luck they want.

3 more wins and Leicester lock it up regardless of what Spurs do, but that means beating at least one of Man Utd, Chelsea, or West Ham.

Yes, agreed.

I, for one,would be more than happy to let Lady Luck aid and assist Leicester as much as possible because I want to see them win the Premiership, too.

Having said that, their stats over the course of the season are far better than anyone else's. Thus, it is not Lady Luck who has sustained them at the top of the table since - when was it? - it is solid, sustained, consistent competence at mastering and applying the basic skills of football.

They have won more games than anyone else, lost fewer games than anyone else, and, with one exception (a difference of one goal with Manchester City) they have scored more than anyone else in the league. Those stats speak for themselves.

And winning doesn't always have to be beautiful - just competent and clinical, and consistent.
[doublepost=1460308255][/doublepost]Just returned to quickly check in on Tottenham Hotspur vs Manchester United; it had been 0-0 for a nice, long, time, which suited me just fine, as anything which benefits Leicester City (a draw would have been very agreeable) meets with my full approval. Up to almost 70 minutes, in fact.

Then, on the dot of 70 minutes, a gaol was scored. Thus, 1-0 to Spurs. And now, it is three nil (to Spurs).

So, while Leicester are worthy - very worthy leaders - of the table, and have led from the front for months, Spurs are clearly worthy runners up. This is a clinical assassination. Manchester United do not look like a team that is currently lying fourth in the table.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

The sudden and complete nature of Man Utd's collapse is shocking given their general defensive solidity this season - what happened? Surely it wasn't just down to a little traffic??? Mourinho has been sniffing around the press again, reminding us he's waiting to take the reigns at OT...

With that being said, Spurs are not in second place for nothing, and they proved it to day by meeting Leicester's challenge.

Speaking of surprising, Liverpool hammer Stoke in a match where Klopp put out a B squad to keep the lads fresh for Dortmund. The youngsters did well. Stoke aren't as strong in defense as they once were but I expected a cagey, disjointed performance fro Liverpool. Also surprised that Klopp started Sturridge, since he surely wants him healthy for Thursday. Maybe he feels he still needs minutes.

Origi is now on a bit of a streak.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

If it were just a question of economics and consumer demand, I would agree with you entirely. But what we are dealing with here includes much larger, longer-term social issues. Sexism is still an incredible problem in sports when the president of FIFA publicly suggests they wear tighter uniforms or when powerful figures in the tennis world opine that women should be "down on their knees" thanking men for allowing them to "ride on their coat-tails."

Will women ever be able to match men in terms of average size, speed and muscle mass? No. Does that mean male soccer will always be the premier manifestation of the sport? Possibly, but right now the question is not one of quality of play, but of institutional sexism that humiliates women and actively prevents even the opportunity for equality.

And yes, as far as I'm concerned, the USWNT should be getting paid more then the men at the moment. They won the WC; the men duffed it in the Gold Cup and have been crap ever since.

I don't want to turn this into a political thread (I waste far too much time on MR over there as it is!!), but women couldn't even vote until the 20th century in most of Europe and the Americas. That's not that long ago, and we still have a long, long way to go before women get a fair shake in sports (and western society as a whole) as far as I'm concerned.

So, in short, I'm inclined to believe the USWNT when they claim US Soccer is giving them a raw deal in terms of pay. And so far the numbers bear them out.

Real beats Barca, and Crispy Ronaldo gets photographed in his undies in the locker room so we can all count and confirm he still has 12-pack abs. Did he make them all wait while he undressed?



Sexism swings both ways, but certainly not to an equal degree over the last 6,000 years of recorded human culture. I think we are not yet at the point where society at large have collectively acknowledged the full depth of gender inequality and male privilege present in most world cultures (i.e. Blatter's opinions are still far too widespread, c.f. Donald Trump & Co, too many examples to list). Football is still run by men, for example. Mostly old, wealthy and white as well - and that has consequences for determining who has power within the game and who does not.

That's not an attack on men, nor is it an assertion of the infallibility of all specific claims for gender equality. Cultures evolve, hopefully for the better, over time. But I think we have a lot of cultural baggage that has yet to be adequately dealt with before we can truly make the kinds of comparisons or changes you're alluding to - the sporting realm is not the only place where this inequality manifests itself. Big cultural shifts don't happen overnight, nor are they a simple, neat process. It's going to take along time, and will be messy.

Right now the women's game is smaller, and they are a million miles away from equality of pay with men. MUCH of that is accounted for by the small size and recent development of women's professional and international soccer - but not ALL of it.

In short, this is not a footballing problem with footballing answers. The USWNT's lawsuit is merely a manifestation of a much bigger cultural process. But maybe, if I'm being an optimist, football can evolve in small ways that help set a good example for the rest of society.

Meant to comment on these posts earlier, but I concur completely.

Re Leicester, I must say that I am thoroughly the spectacle that is unfolding at the top of the table as we approach the end of the season.

Usually, by this stage, the outcome of the competition is either tediously clear, or, painfully predictable, with the same few entitled (if sometimes gifted) faces are battling it out at the top.

Most years, the end of season matches are only interesting when observing the unfortunates caught in the cut throat battle for survival at the bottom, a sort of blood sport as the price of failure - relegation - is so costly, financially and in every other way.

However, this year, in a paradoxical inversion of the more usual pattern - where unknown and unexpected things can happen at the bottom of the table right up to the last minute of the last day - that particular competition looks as though it may well have been decided well in advance of the final day of the season, and will lack that frisson of visceral excitement, whereas genuine excitement will attend the final few matches to decide who will actually win the Premiership.

Thus, in so many ways, this year makes a most refreshing and welcome change from our usual fare.

 

[throwthedice]

3 more wins and Leicester lock it up regardless of what Spurs do, but that means beating at least one of Man Utd, Chelsea, or West Ham.

I don't think Leicester will have any problems beating Man Utd.

LvG's substitutions in the Spurs game were baffling and his reasoning behind playing Young up front was so stupid. Like one of the commentators said during the game, LvG appears to love playing square pegs in round holes!

Martial - on the left;
Ashley Young up front;
Mata who lacks pace is on the right wing;
Lingard who has no creativity is the number 10;

Schneiderlin is partnered with Carrick whose legs are gone - Schneiderlin has to do 2 people's job and in the end he doesn't do any of them properly.

Sigh!

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Martial - on the left;
Ashley Young up front;
Mata who lacks pace is on the right wing;
Lingard who has no creativity is the number 10;

I'm no expert on the Man Utd squad, but isn't Lingard a winger?

 

[JamesMike]

My Man U team looked bad, allowing 3 goals in about 5 minutes!

 

[Alphazoid]

The game changed once Mensah went off. He was the one sweeping the back line.

Seems the season is a forgone conclusion. Lei will be champions, Spurs 2nd, Arsenal and City fill up the remaining spaces. Newcastle and Villa gone, probably Sunderland too. Van Gaal gone in summer.

Then Euros which France will probably win.

 

[throwthedice]

I'm no expert on the Man Utd squad, but isn't Lingard a winger?

I'm no expert either but I feel Lingard can do a better job on the wing than centrally. He just does not have the skills to be a #10. The moment Young came on, it was so easy - Martial up front, Young on the left, Lingard on the right, Mata supplying them from the #10 position with Carrick and Schneiderlin covering the defense. At the very least I feel the people would've been on their preferred positions. But NO! because "philosophy".

I truly hope LvG gets binned next season (with Giggs). I can't take another season of this "philosophy".

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I'm no expert either but I feel Lingard can do a better job on the wing than centrally. He just does not have the skills to be a #10. The moment Young came on, it was so easy - Martial up front, Young on the left, Lingard on the right, Mata supplying them from the #10 position with Carrick and Schneiderlin covering the defense. At the very least I feel the people would've been on their preferred positions. But NO! because "philosophy".

I truly hope LvG gets binned next season (with Giggs). I can't take another season of this "philosophy".

But 'this philosophy' unfortunately started when the Glazers bought Manchester United, and put the club in debt to finance that purchase, transforming the club's function from a profitable and charismatic football club to that of a financial instrument that plays football in order to generate capital and profit in a worldwide market.

The magisterial, authoritative and bullying genius of Sir Alex Ferguson - along with an ageing crop of excellent players from whom he coaxed decent performances after the time when one might have supposed that time had been called on their careers - delayed the impact of the effects of this type of financial acquisition on the club's performances for a few years, but even the legendary Sir Alex could not hold the clock back forever, especially once he departed, and lesser beings struggled to emerge from his shadow with limited resources at their disposal.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

It looks like people are cottoning on to some of Leicester's potentially dodgy finances, as per our discussion some months back.

Sir Alex could not hold the clock back forever, especially once he departed, and lesser beings struggled to emerge from his shadow with limited resources at their disposal.

Man Utd have spent a huge amount of money post-Ferg. It's not so much a question of limited resources as general transfer fee inflation and buying expensive flops. Unless by "resources" you meant the flawed squad Ferg left behind when he retired.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

It looks like people are cottoning on to some of Leicester's potentially dodgy finances, as per our discussion some months back.



Man Utd have spent a huge amount of money post-Ferg. It's not so much a question of limited resources as general transfer fee inflation and buying expensive flops. Unless by "resources" you meant the flawed squad Ferg left behind when he retired.

Actually, I think Alex Ferguson got far more out of them than anyone might have expected, but the squad was lacking in depth by the time he retired. For that matter, - in common with many autocrats, and Fergie was an autocrat, if an uncommonly gifted one - his shadow was too long, hr stayed on too long, and - above all - he failed to manage the succession, to ensure that someone of stature capable of shouldering the weight of responsibilities post Ferguson - could be appointed.

Re the purchase of expensive flops (and poor judgement), agreed.

As for Leicester's dodgy finances, yes, I remember discussing it earlier. Anyway, I'll not let that interfere with my enjoyment of - and delight in - whatever success they manage the year.

Expecting a higher degree of financial probity and morality from them, when richer, and far better resourced others have been guilty of far worse for much longer - and crucially, haven't been held to account on it - strikes me as somewhat redundant, and aiming at the wrong target.

The incestuously close relationship between money (sometimes dodgy money) and the Premiership needs to be interrogated, but Leicester is not where I'd start such an examination.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Man City are lost without De Bruyne...even Aguero is spluttering. They deserve to go through in the sense that PSG were not the better team, but Man City do NOT look like European champions, not by miles.

As for Real, they are always contenders, they turned it on when they had to but they are just so hard to like. Ronaldo is unbearable as a human being. Between Pepe, Marcelo and Sergio Ramos they have three of the four most dirty/hateable defenders in European football playing for them. They can't defend; they have no discernible style of play apart from Attack! Their press corps are hysterical, their president is the ultimate footballing demagogue; they fire their managers even when they win; they were Franco's favorite club.

 

[twietee]

As for Real [...] but they are just so hard to like.

Agreed. I have to confess though that I was rooting for them against VW Wolfsburg - a club that I really can't do with and think they got in both of the last two first legs, against Gank and Madrid, propped up by the ref.

As for Real, I for one kinda like Ramos (agreed he can get dirty, but he's also an amazing defender with a great spirit - I can't deny that), but I don't follow them that closely so maybe lost a moment here or there. During the Mou-years they certainly lost some credibility - although I guess it is somewhat hard as a pro to get that coach put in front of you. Pepe is a no-no after his outrageous behavior when he kicked an opponent multiple times. I think they defended well yesterday though - Bale, Ronaldo and Benzema were all working there - not just standing there, waiting for the ball. Marcello is a brilliant football player - too bad he wants that golden rasperry award that badly as well.

As for Ronaldo in particular - I don't despise him, like many other do - I acknowledge that he is all about merchandise (while also being a brilliant striker, there is just no arguing there ), probably earned a billion once retired so that is that, who am I criticizing him for that. He's the perfect entertainer in an entertainment business on that level. I'd argue that his club benefits greatly by that and so do ultimately his teammembers. What I find fascinating is that basically everybody I know heavily criticizes him for being that egocentric while on the same time these people also focus almost exclusively on him - so that goes both ways, except that he earns a big chunk of money for that..

Anyway, Barca v. Atleti should be brutal today. I suspect the UEFA tampering with the draws so predict a Barca-Real (Clasico) and Bayern-City (Pep-Pep) pairing. Barca v Bayern should be a great finale.

edit: re yesterday, Kroos and Modric played absolutely superb and are in fact the only two players from Real that I like without a second thought and regardless the opposition.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

As for Ronaldo in particular - I don't despise him, like many other do - I acknowledge that he is all about merchandise (while also being a brilliant striker, there is just no arguing there ), probably earned a billion once retired so that is that, who am I criticizing him for that. He's the perfect entertainer in an entertainment business on that level. I'd argue that his club benefits greatly by that and so do ultimately his teammembers. What I find fascinating is that basically everybody I know heavily criticizes him for being that egocentric while on the same time these people also focus almost exclusively on him - so that goes both ways, except that he earns a big chunk of money for that..

Christiano Ronaldo is so transparently desperate to be acclaimed as the best footballer in the world, and it makes him easy to wind up. He is incredibly narcissistic; to be fair, much of that comes down to the fact that people have been telling him he's wonderful his entire life. And he simply can't stand the fact that there is another footballer out there who might be as good or even better than him. He's also not a team player.

Barca - Bayern would be my choice for the final...though in a one-off match I could see Atleti beating Bayern if they somehow made it that far. I'd love to see Torres in a CL final.

 

[twietee]

Christiano Ronaldo is so transparently desperate to be acclaimed as the best footballer in the world, and it makes him easy to wind up. He is incredibly narcissistic; to be fair, much of that comes down to the fact that people have been telling him he's wonderful his entire life. And he simply can't stand the fact that there is another footballer out there who might be as good or even better than him. He's also not a team player.

Barca - Bayern would be my choice for the final...though in a one-off match I could see Atleti beating Bayern if they somehow made it that far. I'd love to see Torres in a CL final.

Well, I don't know about Ronaldo personally. I wouldn't even be surprised if he's quite different in private (well, not THAT different ). In the end that's his image - an image that works almost too perfect contrasting Messi to be a coincidence.And an image that makes him eventually a billionaire, so you could say he just sells what people want to buy.

How much of that is show (also re Messi who certainly ain't the innocent puppy that he tries to impersonate) remains unknown. Of course the image Messi (re)presents is way more sympathetic than the one Ronaldo does - but I'm quite sure there is even more show involved than we think it is. Messi is just as egocentric imo. Both are great players, Messi is just a wee bit better

I agree that Atleti would be the most challenging team for Bayern. Not because they'd win against Barca more easily but because they rarely, if ever, play against such beasts.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Well, I don't know about Ronaldo personally. I wouldn't even be surprised if he's quite different in private (well, not THAT different ). In the end that's his image - an image that works almost too perfect contrasting Messi to be a coincidence.And an image that makes him eventually a billionaire, so you could say he just sells what people want to buy.

I think he is that way personally (especially if his movie is anything to go by), but you are also right in that he has successfully commodified himself. The funny thing is that he's constantly at war with his "critics" - but nobody is truly criticizing him. It's just that he's so easy to annoy, the temptation is too strong for the media to resist poking him.

Messi does not seek out the public eye the way Ronaldo does, and he's not a "bad boy" but he definitely has a prickly side and has gotten into some dodgy business dealings.

Atleti are really hard to break down and can counterattack with lethal effect - sort of a Super Leicester. On a good day they can absorb attacks by even the best teams in the world.

 

[twietee]

I read about that movie and saw a commentary to that, a british lad / showmaster / host. Was recommended - not because Ronaldo is such a humble and wise person but because it gives great insight into just that: the lonely life of a superstar with what 100+ million followers as per Facebook etc pp.

I think we briefly talked about that before, but the fact, that he keeps large parts of his private life, and not the part that is about some celebrity model he may be dating or not, but the part about his son and the mother of his son that actually nobody knows about - maybe Ronaldo is gay? who knows - makes me think he is smarter than people think he his.

Anyway, I disgressed.

Way more important: Hope you get kicked outta the competition tomorrow.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

We shall see...Henderson would have started if healthy, but he is out. Perhaps a three-man midfield with Can, Lallana and either Milner or Allan behind an attacking three including Coutinho, Firmino and probably Sturridge, though Origi has been in good form and could start depending on Klopp's approach to the match. If not he'll surely sub in for Sturridge in the second half.

I think Liverpool are good enough to go through if they play well, BUT I am also 99% sure Dortmund will score and they are the better team. So it should be interesting.

EDIT: Shocking result in Spain today, Barca are out!!!

Atleti are a very dangerous side, although I can't shake the feeling that they are the Spanish Chelsea: very hard to break down, dirty, lethal counterattacks, combative manager...and while they are not as rich as Barca and Real they are big spenders.

Nobody will want to play them in the next round.

 

[twietee]

Bullsh*t ref. That's the best one the Uefa got? Figures..

Hope the ref tomorrow is decent at least. Really takes away from the enjoyment when almost every second decision seems biased at minimum.

 

[JamesMike]

Glad to see Man U get a win and the performance by de Gea was very good.

 

[Alphazoid]

EDIT: Shocking result in Spain today, Barca are out!!!

Despite the ref's best attempts. Its really disgusting how Barca are favoured by refs. 3 Barca players should be off today and Suarez should've been off in the previous game.

Still, Athletico dismissed them and that makes me all kinds of happy.

 

[twietee]

You can't be serious?! The ref gave Atleti a free pass when they needed it (until the scored) and then decided to suddenly change his stance completely once they needed it as well (after they scored).

That was a clear pen and second yellow in the 90.min I pick jp my tin foil hat and say that barca was to be shut out of the final so they can keep their holy grail that no team won the CL twice in a row.

I doubt they'll see a ref as lenient as those last two in the final. Damn, gotta be rooting for Bayern now..

 

[twietee]

I should add that Barca was still increfible weak and mostly lost that themselves. Too bad they're out of form right when it would be needed the most.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I can't complain when I see upsets at this stage of the Champions League. Real are just too obsessed with the CL - it's the only trophy the club and fans care about, so as far as I'm concerned the longer till they win their next one the better. Bayern looked pretty poor against Benfica but, like Real, they showed they could get the job done when they and to.

I'm reluctant to say I want Man City or Atleti to win the CL, but either of those would be preferable to the monotony of a Real or Bayern neither is the best team oft in the competition, though I think Atleti has a chance because of their Chelsea-style negative approach.

 

[balamw]

I got to watch most of the Barça game yesterday and the one thing that surprised me most was how they seemed to be having such a hard time staying on their feet. It was almost like they wore the wrong shoes for the field conditions. (Like turf shoes on grass). It was really odd.

Anyhow, hoping for anything but another Madrid-Madrid final.

Of the 4 remaining teams, I would probably root for Atletico to take it.

B