The 2017-2018 Football Thread

[Lord Blackadder]

No offense @Lord Blackadder but I don't know why people even bother talking about teams like Barca, Madrid, etc etc.

It's not real football.

It's make believe FIFA 18 video game stuff.

It's literally fantasy football.

They are both always good, they win all the time, they always have the best players.

Any problem they have they throw money at.

That's not real football.

Of Real Madrid, Johnathan Wilson says "[Real Madrid] are a club that have habitually placed resources over theory and [have adopted a] magpie approach, gathering up the brightest available stars and shaping what they could from them..."

It's true that Real and Barca rely more on their financial clout than on tactical genius to win matches (Both Manchester clubs, PSG, Bayern Munich, and Monaco have also functioned this way at times) but outside of that financial stratosphere you do see managers who are advocates of a pressing game - Pochettino, Klopp, Bielsa, even Conte. Of these, Pochettino and Conte play a more conservative press with more defensive solidity. But even they demand that wide defenders also function as attackers.

To be fair to Pep, he has a very clear philosophy and, despite having unlimited resources, he builds attractive teams who are not just a collection of talent, but a collection of talent bent towards creating styles of football impossible to replicate with anything less than a totally committed group of world-class players.

Mourinho and Simeone are-results oriented managers who know how to build a defense that can break an opponent's attacks like glass (heck, you could even say the same about Tony Pulis and Big Sam) - but they are also horribly dull to watch and also often rely on tactical fouls to unsettle their opponents. Defensively solid they might be, but I don't want any of those manager near any club I support.

Pressing is risky, hard to implement successfully, and always carries the chance of the kinds of short term collapses that see Liverpool concede 2-3 goals in a few minutes every few matches. But it also allows them to score 2-3 goals in as short a space, and is exciting to watch. It's never going to catch on below the upper echelons of the elite level, but I still enjoy it.

 

[pachyderm]

Yeah, he's been linked with Man U since the last tax scandal sometime last year and it's doing the rounds again during this transfer window

Even with all their money, can they afford him?

Plus we know he's going to SWFC ...

 

[Alphazoid]

I think he's more likely to get game time at Man U than he is City

Mkhi has been more miss than hit, and there was talk of him going the other way in a Sanchez deal. Martial can also be quite inconsistant

As for City, who's he going to replace? Silva, De Bruyne, Aguero, Jesus, Sirling, Mane?

At city i was thinking he could replace Sane who isn't quite the finished article or slot in for Jesus who is injured or Aguero who can no longer play 38 games a season for 90 mins.

Meanwhile, it seems Walcott is off to Everton for 20m whilst Arsenal (their scouting chief from Dortmund) are in for Auba

 

[Apple fanboy]

At city i was thinking he could replace Sane who isn't quite the finished article or slot in for Jesus who is injured or Aguero who can no longer play 38 games a season for 90 mins.

Meanwhile, it seems Walcott is off to Everton for 20m whilst Arsenal (their scouting chief from Dortmund) are in for Auba

Arsenal are turning into a feeder club.

But their neighbors Spurs seem to do (mostly) an excellent job of keeping theirs.

Meanwhile we are having a second stab at getting past Shrewsbury in the FA cup.

 

[Fizzoid]

At city i was thinking he could replace Sane who isn't quite the finished article or slot in for Jesus who is injured or Aguero who can no longer play 38 games a season for 90 mins.

Sane isn't a regular starter unless someone else is injured, and while you're right about Aguero, he'd still be first pick most games, as would Jesus when he's fit, and both Stirling and Silva are having very good seasons, so I only see Sanchez being a bench warmer at City

 

[Silencio]

Alexis will slot in pretty naturally on the right side of an attacking front three for United. He'll give them some much needed depth and versatility. Would be nice to see Martial and/or Rashford play up top some more so Lukaku doesn't have to play until he drops from exhaustion. He will also take some of the pressure off those two, who are still very young and prone to inconsistency.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Apparently Andy Carroll is heading to Chelsea.
Seems like a strange signing to me. He does well for us when he plays. But he is so injury prone sometimes I think he's made of glass!

Of course he'd be a sub most of the time for Chelsea, and playing 20 minutes a week would suit his fragile nature.

But we need a decent striker. All of our strikers cost around £20 million, but under perform.
I wish we'd have bought less but paid more.

 

[Fizzoid]

Yeah, the Andy Carroll to Chelsea deal is certainly the WTF deal of the transfer window so far

It's not as if he's banged in 20 goals and been recalled to the England team. Has he even played all that much this season?

 

[pachyderm]

seems like i've seen that stupid man bun of his every time they've been on the telly here... meh!

 

[Fizzoid]

Chelsea are now being linked with Llorente from Spurs. Seems they're in the market for a big target man

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Chelsea going after Caroll is an odd one - but the deal seems over with the discovery that he has a potentially quite serious ankle injury.

Injuries have been a constant feature of his career, so it is, unfortunately, not surprising that this could prevent him from playing or moving on for some time.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Yeah, the Andy Carroll to Chelsea deal is certainly the WTF deal of the transfer window so far

It's not as if he's banged in 20 goals and been recalled to the England team. Has he even played all that much this any season?

Fixed that for you!
[doublepost=1516303341][/doublepost]

seems like i've seen that stupid man bun of his every time they've been on the telly here... meh!

Cut it off!
[doublepost=1516303492][/doublepost]

Chelsea going after Caroll is an odd one - but the deal seems over with the discovery that he has a potentially quite serious ankle injury.

Injuries have been a constant feature of his career, so it is, unfortunately, not surprising that this could prevent him from playing or moving on for some time.

His body is basically made of glass.

But playing 10-20 minutes a week as a super sub might help him to prolong his career. But expecting him to play 90 minutes every week just isn't going to happen.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

It seems hard to understand why Klopp likes Karius, though as I mentioned before many have argued that his style of play is probably a better fit for Klopp's style than Mignolet's.

Klopp obviously favors Karius, as he has finally made it pretty explicit that he is Liverpool's number 1 going forward.

I still believe Liverpool need to buy a proven top keeper in the summer. If Karius doesn't show big improvement between now and then, Klopp will face serious pressure from fans to make a change, which could lead to some real tension at the club.

 

[Silencio]

Carroll got injured again, did he not? I read yesterday that Chelsea was making inquiries about Mr. Robot — errr, I mean Peter Crouch.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Carroll got injured again, did he not? I read yesterday that Chelsea was making inquiries about Mr. Robot — errr, I mean Peter Crouch.

The Peter Crouch story was all paper talk apparently.

 

[Alphazoid]

Watzke confirms Arsenal have made a formal bid for Auba, meanwhile Sanchez nowhere near the squad again today.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Well, I suppose that even Arsenal cannot blow a four-nil lead at half-time; something tells me that our notorious brittleness may remain discreetly under wraps today.

 

[JamesMike]

Chelsea's second goad was excellent.
[doublepost=1516467438][/doublepost]Man U got the job done. Burnley played a very good match.

 

[Apple fanboy]

A draw that should really have been a win. We had the better chances.

Stoke did themselves a huge favour with a much needed win. Still very tight at the bottom. 11th (our current position), doesn't look even remotely safe.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

The big teams beat the smaller teams.

EDIT: So Sanchez goes to Man Utd - being paid a reported half million pounds per week (shocking wages, even by modern footballing standards).

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Some new revelations (a week old now) about Messi's rather, erm, complicated tax situation from Der Speigel.

It's really quite sordid. Despite bringing home over 100 million Euros a year, Messi, and particularly his father, seem intent on

1. Finding ways to 'earn' even more money
2. Finding ways to not pay tax on it

Barcelona, for their part, appear to be so terrified of losing Messi it seems the Argentinian has the club entirely at his mercy - to the point that they are not only aware of his tax evasion, but also aiding and abetting it, as well as attempting to cover up the evidence.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Some new revelations (a week old now) about Messi's rather, erm, complicated tax situation from Der Speigel.

It's really quite sordid. Despite bringing home over 100 million Euros a year, Messi, and particularly is father, seem intent on

1. Finding ways to 'earn' even more money
2. Finding ways to not pay tax on it

Barcelona, for their part, appear to be so terrified of losing Messi it seems the Argentinian has the club entirely at his mercy - to the point that they are not only aware of his tax evasion, but also aiding and abetting it, as well as attempting to cover up the evidence.

And to think that once upon a distant time, I rather liked Messi. Sigh.

Sordid doesn't begin to describe it - and neither does simple greed.

Pure, unadulterated, gross, bottomless, entitled, greed sounds more like it.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

And to think that once upon a distant time, I rather liked Messi. Sigh.

Sordid doesn't begin to describe it - and neither does simple greed.

Pure, unadulterated, gross, bottomless, entitled, greed sounds more like it.

I'd like to think that Messi is simply a modestly educated young man who became unimaginably wealthy and famous almost overnight, and this overwhelming celebrity and wealth is being 'managed' by greedy and unscrupulous people who have become obsessed with wringing every last penny out of Messi's brand.

I imagine that is at least part of the picture, but it still sours Messi's otherwise incredible legacy as a footballer. It's also possible that years of fame and wealth have detached Messi from reality and he has, as you say, come to feel entitled to an ever growing mountain of income.

I can't say that, in his situation, I would do any better - but that does not make what is going on acceptable.

The economics of football are a runaway train...when will it crash?

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I'd like to think that Messi is simply a modestly educated young man who became unimaginably wealthy and famous almost overnight, and this overwhelming celebrity and wealth is being 'managed' by greedy and unscrupulous people who have become obsessed with wringing every last penny out of Messi's brand.

Sigh.

With respect - I used to teach Russian and Soviet history for a living - and that sounds far like the clichéd fallacy, passionately clung to by the credulous and abused peasantry, the hoary old chestnut of the Good Ruler misled, for my peace of mind: "If only the Good Tsar knew how his Evil Counsellors were misleading him, abusing their power and wrecking the country", when, of course, the Good Tsar knew all along - this is the very reason why the "Evil Counsellors" were appointed in the first place.

Sorry. Not buying it. When you have that degree of power, influence and wealth, blaming your counsellors for what is one with your resources in your name doesn't cut it. You appointed them.

I imagine that is at least part of the picture, but it still sours Messi's otherwise incredible legacy as a footballer. It's also possible that years of fame and wealth have detached Messi from reality and he has, as you say, come to feel entitled to an ever growing mountain of income.

I can't say that, in his situation, I would do any better - but that does not make what is going on acceptable.

No.

It is not remotely acceptable, it is morally egregious.

The economics of football are a runaway train...when will it crash?

Inevitably, yes, but as of yet, I cannot predict what the trigger which will bring about such a crash will be.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Sigh.

With respect - I used to teach Russian and Soviet history for a living - and that sounds far like the clichéd fallacy, passionately clung to by the credulous and abused peasantry, the hoary old chestnut of the Good Ruler misled, for my peace of mind: "If only the Good Tsar knew how his Evil Counsellors were misleading him, abusing their power and wrecking the country", when, of course, the Good Tsar knew all along - this is the very reason why the "Evil Counsellors" were appointed in the first place.

Sorry. Not buying it. When you have that degree of power, influence and wealth, blaming your counsellors for what is one with your resources in your name doesn't cut it. You appointed them.

Well, his father is deeply implicated, so there is a complicated relationship there. Most elite footballers are simply not ready for the consequences of fame and wealth...the examples are so obvious and numerous that they needn't be mentioned here. And for those less fortunate than Messi, what seems a fortune can vanish overnight and retirement from the game comes with the terrifying need for a poorly-educated, physically scarred athlete to shed his "friends" of the good times and pursue a real career. A fair few don't make it.

But I agree that, whatever the cause and however much Messi himself is or is not personally involved, he remains responsible and it is his legacy that will suffer for the actions of the people around him.

With that being said, the behavior of Barca and even Real in all this should not be ignored. These are not just people - these are big institutions behaving in a startlingly reckless fashion. They believe the normal rules simply do not apply to them and, thus far, they have gotten away with it. At some point I hope there will be a reckoning.