No, in this world, apparently, you are supposed to carry out your own smiting; besides, I am not so sure that God undertakes those kind of sub-contracted jobs.
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The 2017-2018 Football Thread
- Thread starter Lord Blackadder
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No, in this world, apparently, you are supposed to carry out your own smiting; besides, I am not so sure that God undertakes those kind of sub-contracted jobs.
Messi's match was a disaster (he walked frequently, he didn't participate, he was kind of frozen) but his teammates are woeful. I frequently saw them advancing and when they tried to rely - in the last few meters - on a teammate, no one was there. Messi has - or wants, but I'd guess he has - to be everywhere. Whereas Ronaldo is stuck in his position and exploits weaknesses from there. If you have to be everywhere because you teammates aren't playing well... there's not much you can do.
Argentina's defense was always abhorrent, but last match... It was catastrophic. They can't stop a fly from scoring. But as I said earlier, I, personally, put a huge part of the blame on that appalling goalkeeper, because after the first goal due to his mistake, the team got desperate and lost however little focus they had. We are out of the World Cup, in my honest opinion. If - huge if - we get to the playoffs, we stand no chance.
Oh well. Sad, but go Nigeria and open us a little window. I don't want us to be off so soon. We deserve it, because we were appalling - in both matches - but I'd like to see Argentina play a few more matches.
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Our culture, our people. It is what we are. We are abhorrent. We are a joke. Worse than animals (with no disrespect to animals). Football is - I can't believe I'm writing this - many people's entire lives. Mood on any given week - for many people - depends on whether their team won or lost that week. Our education is non-existent. Our standards for behaviour are overwhelmingly low. Football provokes violence in this abhorrent country. Such a waste. Our potential is so great. It's too sad.
And no, that's not a "negligible part of the population". That's the majority of this country.
Seeing humor in adversity, absurdity and the unexpected is an integral part of life. The commercials running during the World Cup poking fun at Germany and Sweden are amusing too. It’s just a game and there’s [innocent, good natured] humor in Colombia losing to Japan, just as there would be to Germany losing to Nigeria in bobsledding.
Now, I’m pulling for Costa Rica today and I’m glad it’s still tied. But I’m not holding my breath.
Why blame yourself or apologize for your countrymen and women? It's their own doing. They're the ones who should behave. Fortunately, the Russian police will deal with them.
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I've seen you. You'd die if you did that.
I'm not blaming myself, I'm just saying that they aren't an isolated group. They are the majority of this country.
Brazil finally awaken and show some of the class and skill that history and tradition suggests they are blessed or burdened by - and manage to score two goals in the six minutes of added stoppage time to defeat Costa Rica.
The Messi v Ronaldo debate is beyond tedious, but at the risk of getting involved I think it is important to contextualize their contrasting fortunes in the World Cup:
Ronaldo has always been a more selfish player who shines when he is "the man" in a team that looks to him for the crucial moments of inspiration. Real Madrid, a team of individuals and "moments", is perfectly suited to him as a result. He is too egotistical in his personality and playing style to work within a "system". This is also true for Portugal - a decent, but mediocre, national team from a relatively small country. Portugal are never expected to win the World Cup or even reach the final. Ronaldo is thus not under any real pressure to carry his team to real success in a World Cup, and by winning a few group games in style he has done his job.
Messi, on the other hand, has always shone best when he is in a team of well-drilled players who are executing a system where Messi is the key creator and attacking threat - but not the ONLY threat. More importantly, he plays for a much more illustrious national side with massive and frankly unrealistic expectations. He is being asked to play like a Ronaldo when he is in fact a Messi -different players, both brilliant.
In short, the comparison between the two is ludicrous because we are talking about a team sport and two vastly different national teams with totally different competitive challenges and domestic expectations. Messi has not failed Argentina - Argentina have failed Messi. Case closed.
Also, I was wrong when I said Pepe is no longer playing for the Portuguese national team...he reminded us all of his presence with an unbelievably cynical flop. Words fail me. What a rotten so-and-so Pepe is. He might not pull peoples' arms out of their sockets, but he's one of the dirtiest players out there, is Pepe.
Funny you should respond this way - Yesterday I came across a PhD dissertation someone wrote that touches this very subject:
¡Animales!: Civility, Modernity, and Constructions of Identity in Argentine Soccer, 1955-1970
Brazil still looked only half-convincing, against a team who are good but not contenders. Coutinho is currently outshining the vaunted Neymar.
Ronaldo has always been a more selfish player who shines when he is "the man" in a team that looks to him for the crucial moments of inspiration. Real Madrid, a team of individuals and "moments", is perfectly suited to him as a result. He is too egotistical in his personality and playing style to work within a "system". This is also true for Portugal - a decent, but mediocre, national team from a relatively small country. Portugal are never expected to win the World Cup or even reach the final. Ronaldo is thus not under any real pressure to carry his team to real success in a World Cup, and by winning a few group games in style he has done his job.
Messi, on the other hand, has always shone best when he is in a team of well-drilled players who are executing a system where Messi is the key creator and attacking threat - but not the ONLY threat. More importantly, he plays for a much more illustrious national side with massive and frankly unrealistic expectations. He is being asked to play like a Ronaldo when he is in fact a Messi -different players, both brilliant.
In short, the comparison between the two is ludicrous because we are talking about a team sport and two vastly different national teams with totally different competitive challenges and domestic expectations. Messi has not failed Argentina - Argentina have failed Messi. Case closed.
Also, I was wrong when I said Pepe is no longer playing for the Portuguese national team...he reminded us all of his presence with an unbelievably cynical flop. Words fail me. What a rotten so-and-so Pepe is. He might not pull peoples' arms out of their sockets, but he's one of the dirtiest players out there, is Pepe.
Funny you should respond this way - Yesterday I came across a PhD dissertation someone wrote that touches this very subject:
¡Animales!: Civility, Modernity, and Constructions of Identity in Argentine Soccer, 1955-1970
Brazil still looked only half-convincing, against a team who are good but not contenders. Coutinho is currently outshining the vaunted Neymar.
Nice! I'll read it, but I liked the part that said: "fútbol, or soccer, was a privileged venue in Argentina for negotiating social anxieties between 1955 and 1970, which in turn produced changing notions of national and masculine identity." This is so true.
Most of us see football as an escape from reality - and at its best it is - but football is also inextricably entwined with local, national, and global culture and politics. It's always fascinating to learn about how football influences and is influenced by these things.
Indeed it is! Our culture is heavily influenced by football, that's undeniable. I have a funny example:
Yesterday I was traveling to a friend's house to watch the match with a few friends. The city was deserted. People were running because they were a little late. When the match started, seldomly anyone remained on the streets. It was quite astonishing.
I'd hate to be on the streets AFTER the match...millions of angry people milling about, looking for a way to vent their fury...
Fair comment and fine distinction drawn between the respective roles expected from Messi and Ronaldo when they represent their countries.
And agree that Brazil made heavy weather of defeating Costa Rica.
Agree completely.
Simon Kuper's "Football Against The Enemy" is an excellent read which explores some of these subjects.
Re Argentina, and football history, my brother turned up with a book last year that he thought would interest me "Angels With Dirty Faces - A Footballing History of Argentina" by Jonathan Wilson and I must say that it was a fascinating read.
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Wilson is good. Jonathan Wilson is a regular on the UK football podcast circuit - especially the Guardian Football Weekly and James Richardson's The Totally Football Show. I've also read his book Inverting the Pyramid - twice. Some find it dull, but I enjoy all the minutiae.
Currently working my way through The Ball is Round, which is a massive tome.
Mood was... Grim. Certainly. Everyone was talking about the match. A few swears here and there. I was watching the match with friends and someone was swearing non-stop on another apartment. It was quite hilarious.
I'm sorry, I didn't understand this message. What do you mean they aren't playing?
Diego Maradonna is a very passionate supporter of football and they best player I have ever seen play live.
The media just does not like him, so his negativity gets headlines. Since He is not perfect, and really could care less what the news reports, he is in the spotlight way too much. His magnitude in 1986 is far greater than Messi because Diego was the only best player then. My point is he does more good things for the sport even nowadays, but that will not merit a “click” on ESPN.
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