The 2018-2019 Football Thread

[Lord Blackadder]

The media love narratives...actually, let's be real here, FANS love narratives and they gobble them up from the media like candy. And like candy, this fodder is delicious and satisfying - but too much is definitely bad for you.

I think the most mis-used word in sports journal is "analysis". Analysis is NOT Big Sam complaining that English managers are getting pushed out of the game; Analysis is NOT an ex-player pundit on Sky yelling about how a penalty was "never a penalty", or that a defender "should have cleared that ball into row Z", or that a team "needs leaders on the pitch". Analysis is not a humorous account of Jose Mournho's latest tantrum, sulk, or eye-poke. That is opinion, info-tainment, blather. And we love it.

And let's not even get started about the tabloids....the less said about them the better.

No club is immune to this "analysis" though, and while I do agree that some clubs go through phases where they become easy targets, I don't think there has ever been a media conspiracy to pick on a specific club. When things are in disarray - such as the collapse of Leeds in the 2000s, Liverpool's troubled years under Gillette and Hicks, Portsmouth or Sunderland's declines, Newcastle in the Ashley years, Arsenal under Kroenke and late-stage Wenger, the post-Ferg years at Man Utd - it is easy to satirize a club and the general football-watching public will gladly pay to consume that. The same goes for high-profile players, who can be typecast in cartoonish ways. Their public persona is constructed by the media (or even their own agents), and may often bear little resemblance to how other professionals see them.

Now, real analysis is something else - the observation and evaluation of the mechanics of football and football management: squad-building, club structures (from a sporting perspective), systems, tactics, how matches evolve, how a team operates a unit, or the strengths and weaknesses of individual players. Sports writers like Johnathan Wilson and Michael Cox excel at this - but many find it boring (I don't).

Analysis can also include examinations of the social and political side of the sport: investigative sports journalism - tracking the business and legal side of football, delving into the business and personal histories of club owners, tracking how leagues are run, how corrupt FIFA really is, how many crypto-slaves in Qatar have died building World Cup stadia and so forth. David Conn, to name one football journalist, has written a number of excellent, well-researched pieces on these topics over the years.

I am as guilty of anyone else about gobbling up narratives and "analysis" - especially when it builds up my favored clubs and attacks my rivals - but sometimes it's important to recognize a lot of this bloviating for what it really is, and separate serious journalism from puff pieces, club propaganda, and muckraking.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

The media love narratives...actually, let's be real here, FANS love narratives and they gobble them up from the media like candy. And like candy, this fodder is delicious and satisfying - but too much is definitely bad for you.

I think the most mis-used word in sports journal is "analysis". Analysis is NOT Big Sam complaining that English managers are getting pushed out of the game; Analysis is NOT an ex-player pundit on Sky yelling about how a penalty was "never a penalty", or that a defender "should have cleared that ball into row Z", or that a team "needs leaders on the pitch". Analysis is not a humorous account of Jose Mournho's latest tantrum, sulk, or eye-poke. That is opinion, info-tainment, blather. And we love it.

And let's not even get started about the tabloids....the less said about them the better.

No club is immune to this "analysis" though, and while I do agree that some clubs go through phases where they become easy targets, I don't think there has ever been a media conspiracy to pick on a specific club. When things are in disarray - such as the collapse of Leeds in the 2000s, Liverpool's troubled years under Gillette and Hicks, Portsmouth or Sunderland's declines, Newcastle in the Ashley years, Arsenal under Kroenke and late-stage Wenger, the post-Ferg years at Man Utd - it is easy to satirize a club and the general football-watching public will gladly pay to consume that. The same goes for high-profile players, who can be typecast in cartoonish ways. Their public persona is constructed by the media (or even their own agents), and may often bear little resemblance to how other professionals see them.

Now, real analysis is something else - the observation and evaluation of the mechanics of football and football management: squad-building, club structures (from a sporting perspective), systems, tactics, how matches evolve, how a team operates a unit, or the strengths and weaknesses of individual players. Sports writers like Johnathan Wilson and Michael Cox excel at this - but many find it boring (I don't).

Analysis can also include examinations of the social and political side of the sport: investigative sports journalism - tracking the business and legal side of football, delving into the business and personal histories of club owners, tracking how leagues are run, how corrupt FIFA really is, how many crypto-slaves in Qatar have died building World Cup stadia and so forth. David Conn, to name one football journalist, has written a number of excellent, well-researched pieces on these topics over the years.

I am as guilty of anyone else about gobbling up narratives and "analysis" - especially when it builds up my favored clubs and attacks my rivals - but sometimes it's important to recognize a lot of this bloviating for what it really is, and separate serious journalism from puff pieces, club propaganda, and muckraking.

Excellent post, and I agree with you.

I would add Simon Kuper (among others) to your list of people who write well and intelligently on sporting matters (and yes, this is what I like to read about).

Having said all that, and I am an Arsenal supporter, I don't actually think that the media were too unfair to Arsenal; and, as log as critical comment (and, indeed, analysis) is undertaken fairly, one cannot complain too much.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

So Man City drop their first points against a hardworking Wolves side. Wolves were a bit lucky with the handball goal, but this is Liverpool's first opportunity to put their noses in front.

 

[Apple fanboy]

So Man City drop their first points against a hardworking Wolves side. Wolves were a bit lucky with the handball goal, but this is Liverpool's first opportunity to put their noses in front.

Good point for Wolves. Will be interesting to see if Liverpool can make Man City pay.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

An excellent point for Wolves, and an instructive experience for Manchester City.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Arnie the man again. At least we are holding our own against Arsenal. But can we get a second and retake the lead?

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Plenty of bad defending from both Arsenal and West Ham, though both sides have created quite a few good chances. West Ham were a bit unlucky in conceding that second goal, but now Arsenal are controlling the match better and look the more likely to score. A third goal would ice it for the gunners...Arnoutovic going off injured was a blow for West Ham.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Plenty of bad defending from both Arsenal and West Ham, though both sides have created quite a few good chances. West Ham were a bit unlucky in conceding that second goal, but now Arsenal are controlling the match better and look the more likely to score. A third goal would ice it for the gunners...Arnoutovic going off injured was a blow for West Ham.

It certainly is. He is a key player for us.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Arnie the man again. At least we are holding our own against Arsenal. But can we get a second and retake the lead?

No.

Arsenal win by three goals to one.

It certainly is. He is a key player for us.

Yes, this seems to be the case re Arnoutovic; I hope his injury is not serious.

Re Arsenal, before the match, it had been announced that Ozil was not part of the squad because he had fallen "ill" - news that was greeted with some slight degree of scepticism. Subsequently, however, it seems that he may have been dropped; likewise, Ramsay has been instructed to concentrate on football and matches, and to allow his agent address pressing matters concerning contracts.

I get the sense of a manager who is asserting himself viz.a.viz the big guns (all puns intended) of the squad.

However, a very welcome three points and an increasingly confident performance.

 

[Alphazoid]

Another fantasy substitution beckons. Do i go for Walcott or Wilson.

On another note, it could be the begining of the end for Ozil. Rumours of a bust up with the manager.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Another fantasy substitution beckons. Do i go for Walcott or Wilson.

On another note, it could be the begining of the end for Ozil. Rumours of a bust up with the manager.

Officially, he was "sick"; this is the seventh time (according to The Guardian) that he has called in "sick" at short notice since the beginning of 2017.

The announcement of this sudden indisposition was greeted with a degree of scepticism.

Unofficially, as you have pointed out, there have been reports of what in diplomatic or (previously polite) political circles would have been described as "a full and frank exchange of views" on the training ground between Emery and Ozil.

That is not an encounter that Ozil will win emerge victorious from, - I get the sense that Emery is asserting his authority - especially after his earlier flouncing departure from the German international squad (which was a poor look, not least after their dismal performance this past summer in Russia), and his ill-advised agreement to allow himself to be photographed with President Erdogan earlier still in the summer.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Once again Liverpool get a win without being quite at their best. Just as important, three clean sheets.

Klopp is playing a more cautious game here and taking advantage of the squad's depth. Seeing Salah balloon two pretty straightforward shots over the bar was worrying, but he still got the winner and looked generally menacing.

There will be draws and defeats ahead, but so far so good, and Man City are not going to run away with things just yet.

The biggest worry so far has been the sloppiness of some of the passing. Overall the team is still a very efficient passing machine, but compared with the best parts of last season there are too many turnovers. A mix of rust for some, weariness for others, and new players integrating I suppose.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Once again Liverpool get a win without being quite at their best. Just as important, three clean sheets.

Klopp is playing a more cautious game here and taking advantage of the squad's depth. Seeing Salah balloon two pretty straightforward shots over the bar was worrying, but he still got the winner and looked generally menacing.

There will be draws and defeats ahead, but so far so good, and Man City are not going to run away with things just yet.

The biggest worry so far has been the sloppiness of some of the passing. Overall the team is still a very efficient passing machine, but compared with the best parts of last season there are too many turnovers. A mix of rust for some, weariness for others, and new players integrating I suppose.

It is early days, yet.

I imagine that their play will improve as the season progresses; they have to return - both the rusty and the weary - to some state close to full fitness, and learn to recognise and adapt to one another's games; that takes time.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Just watched the highlights of our game. West Ham certainly seemed to have the best of the first half.
If we had taken our chances we could have done much better. Arsenal defence was terrible.
But in the second half Arsenal looked more organised. The second goal was a lucky deflection.

Still Anderson made some good runs. When he put the ball through to Perez towards the end Perez couldn't decide between a pass or a shot.

Just hope Arnie isn't out for too long. He always looks a threat in front of goal.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Just watched the highlights of our game. West Ham certainly seemed to have the best of the first half.
If we had taken our chances we could have done much better. Arsenal defence was terrible.
But in the second half Arsenal looked more organised. The second goal was a lucky deflection.

Still Anderson made some good runs. When he put the ball through to Perez towards the end Perez couldn't decide between a pass or a shot.

Just hope Arnie isn't out for too long. He always looks a threat in front of goal.

Well, I'm pleased to see Arsenal put points in the bag and on the board. As always, their attack is reasonably potent.

Moreover, I'm also pleased that they didn't wilt, with that awful Arsenal brittleness - when they went behind, but rallied and fought back to claim the game.

However, I really think that Cech is coming to the end of his time as first team goalkeeper - another silly error or lapse or two - but I daresay that Mr Emery must manage his clean out incrementally, and be seen o give the existing first team a chance or opportunity to prove themselves under the new regime.

Still, I would like to see that new, impressive goalie - Bernd Leno - perform in goal for Arsenal.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Spurs leading Manchester United by two goals to nil at Old Trafford.

 

[Silencio]

A 3-0 defeat. Wow. It's still only August, but it feels like there's no coming back from this one.

United played quite a bit better than last week, but the usual suspects (Jones and Smalling) made the usual critical mistakes. Why are they still at the club, and why were they picked? Utter failures from Mourinho, Woodward, and the entire leadership of the club, and there are no quick fixes to this mess.

Mourinho went out to clap at the Stretford End. Surely he knows it's goodbye... right?

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Three nil defeat to Manchester United (at Old Trafford) at the hands of Spurs.

This was an abject defeat.

Not just Jones and Smalling, but a collection of expensive, - and extremely expensively assembled - exceptionally well paid players, who do not, and clearly, cannot play together as team - a cohesive, collective unit - and are equally unable to express themselves individually.

This is clearly down to the failings and shortcomings of the manager (or "Head Coach"), José Mourinho.

While I had long suspected that he might implode by Christmas, I now think he may well have departed from Old Trafford by Hallowe'en.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Three nil defeat to Manchester United (at Old Trafford) at the hands of Spurs.

This was an abject defeat.

Not just Jones and Smalling, but a collection of expensive, - and extremely expensively assembled - exceptionally well paid players, who do not, and clearly, cannot play together as team - a cohesive, collective unit - and are equally unable to express themselves individually.

This is clearly down to the failings and shortcomings of the manager (or "Head Coach"), José Mourinho.

While I had long suspected that he might implode by Christmas, I now think he may well have departed from Old Trafford by Hallowe'en.

What a shame that would be! Hopefully there are some openings in China for him!

 

[bmac4]

Great win for Tottenham today, and I guess I was right. The two teams at the top right now are Man City and Tottenham. I know Man City saw out a draw over the weekend, but still the strongest team. Once they get healthy, they are a class above everyone else. Tottenham have the best scorer in the league, and have under achieved I think the last couple of years. If they play like this, they are number two behind City.

As for Liverpool. They are 3, but I don’t think that huge money they spent will get them ahead of either of the teams. Sorry but money alone doesn’t win trophies. You actually have to have the winning culture and system.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Great win for Tottenham today, and I guess I was right. The two teams at the top right now are Man City and Tottenham. I know Man City saw out a draw over the weekend, but still the strongest team. Once they get healthy, they are a class above everyone else. Tottenham have the best scorer in the league, and have under achieved I think the last couple of years. If they play like this, they are number two behind City.

As for Liverpool. They are 3, but I don’t think that huge money they spent will get them ahead of either of the teams. Sorry but money alone doesn’t win trophies. You actually have to have the winning culture and system.

Actually, I believe that Liverpool do "have the system", and have addressed the shortcomings of the previous season or two; as with Spurs and Manchester City, they play as a committed, cohesive, coherent team.

Already, it is shaping up to be a fascinating three way challenge, with the respective philosophies (and choices, and indeed, budgets) of the three managers in question offering an extraordinarily interesting contest.

Chelsea are facing issues - issues where uncertainty may cloud their future a little. This has little enough to do with a new (and perfectly competent) manager, but has rather a lot to do with the legal problems and position of the owner, Mr Abramovich, who has been unable to obtain a visa, leading to rumours (published in the Guardian) that suggest that he may be contemplating putting the club up for sale.

Arsenal have to sort out their defence, and I expect a rocky enough ride until the Christmas transfer window; until then, their task is to ensure that they remain in the top six. That will give Mr Emery time to get to know his team, to sort out who he needs, whom he can discard, and be able to argue that he has given his existing first team players - the old hands - a genuine opportunity to prove themselves worthy of a place in the first 11. It will also allow him to identify areas that need attention - and possible purchases.

And I think we can expect to see some of the new purchases (such as their new goalkeeper) make an appearance relatively soon.

Manchester City will face greater competition than last year; more interesting if less beautiful.

Re Manchester United: A quote from Twitter tonight (printed in the Guardian): "Pochettino: Doesn’t have a cent to spend in off-season despite only spending £50m net in his tenure. Doesn’t complain, talks up youngsters & returning players.

Mourinho: spent £300m+ net at Utd. Spends all pre-season whinging about his squad, fighting everyone."

Mourinho can complain all he likes but he has spent a veritable fortune, and still failed to craft a team - which is something that Pochettino, Guardiola and Klopp have all manage to do, some with resources that are far more slender.

Not only that, the man is a candle snuffer in terms of talent; players don't grow and develop under him (again, the contrast with Pochettino, Klopp and Guardiola is both striking and stark), - irrespective of how famous or expensive they are - at best (such as with Zlatan) they stay the same, but most the time, they are diminished, shrivelled and reduced - in terms of confidence and ebullience and freedom of footballing expression - by prolonged contact with Mourinho.

Look at Sanchez: Yes, he was a destructive force at times in the Arsenal dressing room, and many of his team mates loathed him, but nobody denied his impact n the field - or his passion, his drive, his effectiveness, or his commitment - whenever he wore the colours of the Gunners. This is no longer the case at United. Contrast Pogba and Felliani - giants for their respective teams - at the World Cup - with their subdued, diminished performances on the field at Old Trafford and when playing away for United.

 

[bmac4]

Actually, I believe that Liverpool do "have the system", and have addressed the shortcomings of the previous season or two; as with Spurs and Manchester City, they play as a committed, cohesive, coherent team.

Already, it is shaping up to be a fascinating three way challenge, with the respective philosophies (and choices, and indeed, budgets) of the three managers in question offering an extraordinarily interesting contest.

Chelsea are facing issues - issues where uncertainty may cloud their future a little. This has little enough to do with a new (and perfectly competent) manager, but has rather a lot to do with the legal problems and position of the owner, Mr Abramovich, who has been unable to obtain a visa, leading to rumours (published in the Guardian) that suggest that he may be contemplating putting the club up for sale.

Arsenal have to sort out their defence, and I expect a rocky enough ride until the Christmas transfer window; until then, their task is to ensure that they remain in the top six. That will give Mr Emery time to get to know his team, to sort out who he needs, whom he can discard, and be able to argue that he has given his existing first team players - the old hands - a genuine opportunity to prove themselves worthy of a place in the first 11. It will also allow him to identify areas that need attention - and possible purchases.

And I think we can expect to see some of the new purchases (such as their new goalkeeper) make an appearance relatively soon.

Manchester City will face greater competition than last year; more interesting if less beautiful.

Re Manchester United: A quote from Twitter tonight (printed in the Guardian): "Pochettino: Doesn’t have a cent to spend in off-season despite only spending £50m net in his tenure. Doesn’t complain, talks up youngsters & returning players.

Mourinho: spent £300m+ net at Utd. Spends all pre-season whinging about his squad, fighting everyone."

Mourinho can complain all he likes but he has spent a veritable fortune, and still failed to craft a team - which is something that Pochettino, Guardiola and Klopp have all manage to do, some with resources that are far more slender.

Not only that, the man is a candle snuffer in terms of talent; players don't grow and develop under him (again, the contrast with Pochettino, Klopp and Guardiola is both striking and stark), - irrespective of how famous or expensive they are - at best (such as with Zlatan) they stay the same, but most the time, they are diminished and reduced by prolonged contact with Mourinho.

They may have a system, but I will take Pep’s and Pochettino’s all day. Those are the two best coaches in the EPL, and probably the world. I am watching All or Nothing on Amazon right now, and it’s incredible to watch Pep. Liverpool are good and Klopp’s a good manager, but I think Pep and Poch are a step above.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

They may have a system, but I will take Pep’s and Pochettino’s all day. Those are the two best coaches in the EPL, and probably the world. I am watching All or Nothing on Amazon right now, and it’s incredible to watch Pep. Liverpool are good and Klopp’s a good manager, but I think Pep and Poch are a step above.

Let's agree to differ; I think Klopp is equally good.

 

[bmac4]

Let's agree to differ; I think Klopp is equally good.

As Pep? Maybe Poch, but Pep? Let’s recall what Pep has done. Won multiple La Liga titles and CL title at Barcelona. Had what is considered by most the greatest team of all time at Barcelona. Won another couple League title with Bayern while Klopp was there. The titles Klopp won were before Pep arrived. Now Pep has won a title in England, and is looking for more. I don’t think they are equal at all.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

As Pep? Maybe Poch, but Pep? Let’s recall what Pep has done. Won multiple La Liga titles and CL title at Barcelona. Had what is considered by most the greatest team of all time at Barcelona. Won another couple League title with Bayern while Klopp was there. The titles Klopp won were before Pep arrived. Now Pep has won a title in England, and is looking for more. I don’t think they are equal at all.

Let us see.