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The 2018-2019 Football Thread
- Thread starter Lord Blackadder
- Start date
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Scepticalscribe
macrumors Haswell
They did draw the short straw, but it is a good lesson to have had to digest early on - the gulf in class between themselves and the top teams; in a sense, it is a sharp lesson in realism, and useful for Emery to see at first hand what he has to work with.
Having said that, while profligate with wasted chances in front of (open) gaol, their attack has promise.
Indeed.
ivanwi11iams
macrumors 601
Apple fanboy
macrumors Ivy Bridge
I think a thrashing of Huddersfield doesn't quite see this as a one horse race. Liverpool will probably have a similar result when they play them.
ivanwi11iams
macrumors 601
ivanwi11iams
macrumors 601
Apple fanboy
macrumors Ivy Bridge
Yes I realise that. But I think one of best teams should always do well against one of the poorest teams.
Then you see the current game! Love to see United lose!
Alphazoid
macrumors 65816
2 things are certain with the British media.
1. Arsenal will always get criticized, the headlines practically write themselves. Granted they don't help themselves either
2. Klopp, Pep, Liverpool, and Spurs are media darlings that can do no wrong.
On another note, well done Brighton.
Apple fanboy
macrumors Ivy Bridge
I think lots of teams get criticised, not just Arsenal. There's probably been more negativity written about West Ham in recent years.
And yes well done Brighton. I feared the worse when they won the penalty. Just as well it wasn't at Old Trafford!
Apple fanboy
macrumors Ivy Bridge
Scepticalscribe
macrumors Haswell
The gulf in class, and ambition - and team spirit - has been clearly shown by the respect performances of both Manchester teams today.
Pep clearly had a message to send on the lines that the team - and it is a team, every part clicking seamlessly into place - could function flawlessly without its talisman, Kevin De Bruyne, and would still offer a formidable threat to any team with aspirations to displace them at the top of the table.
And, as for Mr Mourinho, despite everything, he still has to fashion a real team out of the talented squad he has at his disposal.
Pep clearly had a message to send on the lines that the team - and it is a team, every part clicking seamlessly into place - could function flawlessly without its talisman, Kevin De Bruyne, and would still offer a formidable threat to any team with aspirations to displace them at the top of the table.
And, as for Mr Mourinho, despite everything, he still has to fashion a real team out of the talented squad he has at his disposal.
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Agree on kudos to Brighton, they earned their win against a confusingly vulnerable Man Utd.
But I have to disagree on the manager comment. Pep, and all foreign managers, have gotten a ton of flak from the English ‘proper football men’ for being systems-obsessed fancy Dans who are turning football into a limp-wristed game for wimpy continentals.
Klopp was raked over the coals constantly last season for his supposed inability to marshal a defense - at first there was some justification for that, but after signing van dijk (another decision he was roundly criticized for persisting in) things vastly improved - but in some quarters the critics kept trotting out the same hoary lines.
Alphazoid
macrumors 65816
The 'proper English men' are very fickle and biased towards an ancient mindset because they believe too much in their 'expertise'...until they're proven wrong.
There is more than one way to play the beautiful game which people tend to forget.
Klopp was criticized for not sorting out his defense but there was never any debate about his job or competency. And people enjoyed Gegenpress. Everyone also recognized that Pep was trying to implement his style and when he succeeded the tone changed drastically.
Apple Fanboy is right, everyone gets criticized but some teams constantly get cheap shots from the media. Newcastle, Arsenal, Stoke etc.
There is more than one way to play the beautiful game which people tend to forget.
Klopp was criticized for not sorting out his defense but there was never any debate about his job or competency. And people enjoyed Gegenpress. Everyone also recognized that Pep was trying to implement his style and when he succeeded the tone changed drastically.
Apple Fanboy is right, everyone gets criticized but some teams constantly get cheap shots from the media. Newcastle, Arsenal, Stoke etc.
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JamesMike
macrumors 603
The difference between Man City and Man United's play today was night and day. I want and early Christmas present in the departure of M.
Apple fanboy
macrumors Ivy Bridge
Scepticalscribe
macrumors Haswell
ivanwi11iams
macrumors 601
Scepticalscribe
macrumors Haswell
Well, it is the dreaded third season, - which has been explosive in every managerial position he has held - and his least successful period as a manager.
This - and Pep Guardiola's success (and vision) cannot but eat at him.
So, I think we can expect to witness some fireworks over the coming months.
This could well happen; he may not last until Christmas, or could see in the new year in explosive fashion.
Crystal palace 0-2 Liverpool was the definition of "grinding out" a win.
Liverpool's defense improved markedly of the course of last season, but tonight we can see that it has now been completely transformed. Apart from one or two little hiccups, the back line and keeper were solid and unflappable.
This is a game they would have drawn or lost a season ago. Palace were tough, hard to break down and have weapons going forward (though Benteke is still firing blanks despite his other great qualities) But Klopp has managed to address the weaknesses in the squad and make Liverpool a lot more solid without sacrificing their attacking potential.
I agree that some clubs acquire a negative media narrative - but each for their own unique reasons. For example, if we say that Newcastle and Stoke are the victims of a biased, London-based media, what do we make of those same scribes' treatment of Arsenal? Arsenal have been a target for years due to a growing media narrative (based, I think we have to admit, on at least a kernel of truth) that things were getting stale under Wenger - with the added side story about Kroenke's ownership and the notion he is happy to keep Arsenal a profitable, thoroughbred also-ran for as long as he owns the club.
Similarly, Newcastle continue to labor under the ownership an execrable tycoon. I don't see these clubs as the target of 'cheap shots' in the media - but I do think the media call out the club owners and suits pretty often. And I don't see anything wrong with that.
Stoke were a victim of their own success - when you can't compete financially, you adapt your playing style to your resources and under Pulis they became horrible to watch and even more horrible to play against. But it kept them in the top division for years and, while it is an oversimplification, it is not ridiculous to say that they got relegated in part because they stopped playing like "Stoke on a cold, wet Tuesday night".
Liverpool's defense improved markedly of the course of last season, but tonight we can see that it has now been completely transformed. Apart from one or two little hiccups, the back line and keeper were solid and unflappable.
This is a game they would have drawn or lost a season ago. Palace were tough, hard to break down and have weapons going forward (though Benteke is still firing blanks despite his other great qualities) But Klopp has managed to address the weaknesses in the squad and make Liverpool a lot more solid without sacrificing their attacking potential.
I agree that some clubs acquire a negative media narrative - but each for their own unique reasons. For example, if we say that Newcastle and Stoke are the victims of a biased, London-based media, what do we make of those same scribes' treatment of Arsenal? Arsenal have been a target for years due to a growing media narrative (based, I think we have to admit, on at least a kernel of truth) that things were getting stale under Wenger - with the added side story about Kroenke's ownership and the notion he is happy to keep Arsenal a profitable, thoroughbred also-ran for as long as he owns the club.
Similarly, Newcastle continue to labor under the ownership an execrable tycoon. I don't see these clubs as the target of 'cheap shots' in the media - but I do think the media call out the club owners and suits pretty often. And I don't see anything wrong with that.
Stoke were a victim of their own success - when you can't compete financially, you adapt your playing style to your resources and under Pulis they became horrible to watch and even more horrible to play against. But it kept them in the top division for years and, while it is an oversimplification, it is not ridiculous to say that they got relegated in part because they stopped playing like "Stoke on a cold, wet Tuesday night".
Silencio
macrumors 68040
Palace played well, except for Sahko's two moments of madness. And yes, the much improved solidity in goal, defense, and defensive midfield will really serve Liverpool well.
The less said about United, the better. Glad I missed the match yesterday. The upcoming match against Spurs is going to be very meaningful indeed.
The less said about United, the better. Glad I missed the match yesterday. The upcoming match against Spurs is going to be very meaningful indeed.
Keeping pace with Man City is going to be very difficult for each of the rest of the "top six". An early loss (as Arsenal and Man Utd have already suffered), as long as Man City keep winning with ease, is a blow to morale.
Apple fanboy
macrumors Ivy Bridge
Early days yet. From a neutral's point of view (well as to say we are not in the champion race), as long as Liverpool match their results it should keep it interesting.
The rest were never really challenge for the pot this year.
Scepticalscribe
macrumors Haswell
Both Klopp and Guardiola have shown an ability to learn and adapt while on the job (which is not the case with some English managers, and certainly not the case with all managers form the continent, as Wenger's lamentable reluctance to address his team's defensive shortcomings made all too abundantly clear); both Klopp and Guardiola have been able to identify - and attempt to address - the shortcomings of their respective teams, and both are outstanding coaches.
Well done Brighton, indeed, and well done Liverpool.
Re criticism of Arsenal, I agree with @Lord Blackadder that there is at leas a kernel of truth in the criticisms, but I don't think that the media are "all over Arsenal"; actually, I think that some of the London based media would like nothing more than to be in a position to support Arsenal - certainly, the Guardian's coverage has been more sorrowful than completely critical.
Having said that, Emery will need at leas a season, and possibly two, to craft what he needs to craft - time that was given to both Guardiola and Klopp - and to criticise him so early is to miss the point.
The next transfer window will be interesting, as, by then, Emery will have a better idea of what he is working with, whom he can seek to jettison, and what positions need urgent surgery.