The 2021-2022 Football Thread

[HandsomeDanNZ]

Been an interesting deadline day. Nothing particularly earth-shattering (other than Griezman moving on from Barca).
Some interesting mid-level moves and a few eyebrow lifters here and there, but overall a busy and fairly fruitful Transfer Window for most teams...but not everyone will be happy.

 

[pachyderm]

 

[Silencio]

Chelsea did manage to get Saúl in on loan before the end. They have Kante, Jorginho, Kovacic, and Saúl to pick from in their squad. That is serious quality in depth.

Meanwhile, United is apparently happy to keep running Fred out there.

 

[HandsomeDanNZ]

Meanwhile, United is apparently happy to keep running Fred out there.

I do wonder if Ronaldo with be a boon or a hindrance to United.
If you have to shape a team around him and play only to his strengths it can be quite disruptive...but you never know - that could make Fred look pretty good!

He has a certain way about him and while there's no denying his talent and his commitment, he's a star pony and that's how he likes to be treated (so would I in his situation), so you really have to wonder...

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Liverpool have kept Loris Karius on the books. It’s like a new signing!

re: Ronaldo…he’s not the type of player Man Utd need. He was signed because Man City were going for him and he’s a Man Utd ‘legend.’ I don’t see how this was a reasoned purchase rather than a PR exercise.

Pros: he’s an incredible finisher and world class header of the ball. Great game intelligence and freekick ability. He’s Cristiano freakin’ Ronaldo…he’ll score goals.

Cons: He’ll expect to start and can’t be dropped. He won’t do any dirty work. He won’t press. He might keep more useful players from playing. Not sure how well he works with Fernandes, who is also undroppable if healthy.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Signed Alex Kral. Hopefully he works out as well as our other two Czech players.
Meanwhile I hear Arsenal are after a new back four. They were making enquiries at our local pub! (Sorry @Scepticalscribe). In all seriousness, I thought you’d be busier today.

What irks me is that a number of the players in what was a dismal defence as long ago as 2017 are still on the books, which begs the question of why that is still the case given that our (flagrant) defensive frailties are no secret?

There are other issues too:

One is that the players are - or appear to be - unable to play to Mikel Arteta's plan, shape, style, vision - which means either, 1) they are not able to do so, lack the skills, or ability, or training, to carry out such plans, or, 2) they are asked to do too much, or, 3) what is asked of them is not made clear, in other words, that they don't understand what they are supposed to do (all of which is on the manager).

If a scheme or plan or shape is beyond the players, you change either the players, or the plan.

If the former, you find (buy, beg, borrow, grow, nurture) players who can play to your plan, or your vision; if the latter, well, then, it becomes necessary for you to adapt the plan to the players you have, alter or amend the plan, and make sure that they understand what they are supposed to do. However, ultimately, it is on the manager to ascertain what can be achieved with the resources (players) at your disposal, and respond accordingly to the challenges posed by opposing teams.

In general, I tend to favour giving managers at the very least, four transfer windows - they need that long to craft or create a team that they have in mind, and, in fairness, Arsenal has had an awful lot of deadwood (overpaid, under achieving, under motivated, deadwood) to offload, for they have been in decline for well over a decade.

Re Ronaldo, to my mind, his purchase was not just a sentimental (and expensive) indulgence, but one, I think, that will serve to unbalance the team, as catering to him, serving him, will devour onfield resources (time, effort, energy, attention, space, other options).

Yes, he will score goals, - however, that has not been Manchester United's problem - but he will also demand that his needs are prioritised, that the team be built around him, and that may cost the team.

 

[Silencio]

United didn't need Ronaldo as much as they needed (and still need) a CDM who can hold it down by himself without having to play in a double pivot. However, I think he will be a pretty useful signing. With Rashford out for a while longer, Sancho most likely needing some more time to bed in, Greenwood not yet big and strong enough to play at the 9, and Martial being pretty much useless, United does need the cover in his position. There was also the question of Cavani going to South American for World Cup qualifiers and missing quite a few matches because of that, but he will stay in England instead. Still, you can't count on Cavani to play every single match, either.

I can only hope that being back at United — a club he has professed so much love and respect for — will inspire him to curb his worst impulses and fit a bit more within a team concept. Playing week in, week out in front of Bruno (and Pogba), they'll find a way to make it work.

Having all three of Maguire, Ronaldo, and Varane in the opponent's box for corner kicks — that should be fun.

Going back to the double pivot: it can actually work fairly well when Fred and McTominay are paired together, but the latter needed surgery on his groin and will be out for an unknown length of time. United blocked van de Beek from going out on loan this window, so he had better be in the plans somehow. He doesn't have McTominay's steel, but he's good on the ball and uses it well.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Liverpool have kept Loris Karius on the books. It’s like a new signing!

re: Ronaldo…he’s not the type of player Man Utd need. He was signed because Man City were going for him and he’s a Man Utd ‘legend.’ I don’t see how this was a reasoned purchase rather than a PR exercise.

Pros: he’s an incredible finisher and world class header of the ball. Great game intelligence and freekick ability. He’s Cristiano freakin’ Ronaldo…he’ll score goals.

Cons: He’ll expect to start and can’t be dropped. He won’t do any dirty work. He won’t press. He might keep more useful players from playing. Not sure how well he works with Fernandes, who is also undroppable if healthy.

Another pro. Ronaldo will sell shirts.

 

[Apple fanboy]

What irks me is that a number of the players in that dismal defence in 2017 are still on the books, which begs the question of why that is still the case given that our defensive frailties are no secret?

There are other issues too:

One is that the players are - or appear to be - unable to play to Mikel Arteta's plan, shape, style, vision - which means either, 1) they are not able to do so, lack the skills, or ability, or training, to carry out such plans, or, 2) they are asked to do too much, or, 3) what is asked of them is not made clear, in other words, that they don't understand what they are supposed to do (all of which is on the manager).

If a scheme or plan or shape is beyond the players, you change either the players, or the plan.

If the former, you find (buy, beg, borrow, grow, nurture) players who can play to your plan, or your vision; if the latter, well, then, it becomes necessary for you to adapt the plan to the players you have, alter or amend the plan, and make sure that they understand what they are supposed to do. However, ultimately, it is on the manager to ascertain what can be achieved with the resources (players) at your disposal, and respond accordingly to the challenges posed by opposing teams.

In general, I tend to favour giving managers at the very least, four transfer windows - they need that long to craft or create a team that they have in mind, and, in fairness, Arsenal has had an awful lot of deadwood (overpaid, under achieving, under motivated, deadwood) to offload, for they have been in decline for well over a decade.

Re Ronaldo, to my mind, his purchase was not just a sentimental (and expensive) indulgence, but one, I think, that will serve to unbalance the team, as catering to him, serving him, will devour onfield resources (time, effort, energy, attention, space, other options).

Yes, he will score goals, - however, that has not been Manchester United's problem - but he will also demand that his needs are prioritised, that the team be built around him, and that may cost the team.

As Merson put it yesterday. When Arsenal sign a player, there has never been another big club chasing their signature. Why? Because they don’t attract the top players other clubs want. So you get gambles. When they work out, great. But when they don’t you are stuck with them picking up a big wage warming the bench.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

United didn't need Ronaldo as much as they needed (and still need) a CDM who can hold it down by himself without having to play in a double pivot. However, I think he will be a pretty useful signing. With Rashford out for a while longer, Sancho most likely needing some more time to bed in, Greenwood not yet big and strong enough to play at the 9, and Martial being pretty much useless, United does need the cover in his position. There was also the question of Cavani going to South American for World Cup qualifiers and missing quite a few matches because of that, but he will stay in England instead. Still, you can't count on Cavani to play every single match, either.

An interesting point...I am operating from the assumption that players like Rashford, Greenwood, Cavani, and Sancho either are now or soon will be the best options at forward. Ronaldo is individually superior to those players in certain areas but his net effect on the system or team will be negative due to his limitations and his presence keeping one of the aforementioned players out. He is sure to provide big, emotionally satisfying moments but I am skeptical that he makes Man Utd a better team.

In drawing this conclusion I am more or less extrapolating from his late years at Real Madrid and his career at Juventus. In both cases was more or less undroppable and scored a lot of goals, but he also made the team worse quite often. Or put another way, his presence influenced the shape, system, and starting XI in ways that were not always the best for the situation.

And any metric other than his (typically extraordinary) goalscoring numbers his stint at Juve was a failure.

I can only hope that being back at United — a club he has professed so much love and respect for — will inspire him to curb his worst impulses and fit a bit more within a team concept. Playing week in, week out in front of Bruno (and Pogba), they'll find a way to make it work.

I am eager to see how this plays out. He has never been unselfish...but apparently his signing resulted at least partially from personal appeals by a slew of club legends, including Ferguson himself. Can he show a humility at Man Utd he has yet to display elsewhere? It's possible but it would be quite a shift in character.

 

[Silencio]

An interesting point...I am operating from the assumption that players like Rashford, Greenwood, Cavani, and Sancho either are now or soon will be the best options at forward. Ronaldo is individually superior to those players in certain areas but his net effect on the system or team will be negative due to his limitations and his presence keeping one of the aforementioned players out. He is sure to provide big, emotionally satisfying moments but I am skeptical that he makes Man Utd a better team.

The only two classic, unquestioned #9's in United's squad are: Cavani and Ronaldo.

United play a front three, with Bruno in behind them. Rashford is most effective by far when deployed on the left. Martial is also better wide left — I would not deem the long term attempt to play him in front of goal a rousing success by any metric. Sancho is another wide attacker who is comfortable playing on either side, but I expect he'll see most of the time on the right.. Many see Greenwood's long term position as a #9, but right now his pace and lethal two-footedness are far stronger attributes for him than his strength or aerial ability. I see him developing in to a well-rounded, Robin Van Persie type of striker, hopefully without all the injuries.

Speaking of Ronaldo: quite a dramatic late brace from him to propel Portugal past Ireland and put his name at the top of the all-time international goals list, and he's far from done.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Speaking of Ronaldo: quite a dramatic late brace from him to propel Portugal past Ireland and put his name at the top of the all-time international goals list, and he's far from done.

I know, I suppose he's a more worthy holder of that title than Ali Deai but I wish he'd retire already.

I watched the last 15 minutes. Heartbreaking for Ireland, though they looked woeful. Portugal are not a fun side to watch or play against, but they are effective and have some very talented players.

 

[Silencio]

Don't diss Ali Daei! He was pretty good back in his day.

What I really liked seeing from Ronaldo at the end of the match was the maturity and leadership attributes he displayed. They were still down 1-0 and Mendes hit a cross that flew over everybody and Ronaldo clapped and encouraged him. He took a shot that sailed over and apologized to those around him for not passing. He looked at the fans and gestured to them to get up and support the team. In years past, he would have gone into sulk mode.

I also liked that he drew a "tactical" yellow card celebrating the winner, so he won't have to fly all the way out to Baku and can instead go straight to Manchester and start training with the club. Well played.

 

[JamesMike]

What irks me is that a number of the players in what was a dismal defence as long ago as 2017 are still on the books, which begs the question of why that is still the case given that our (flagrant) defensive frailties are no secret?

There are other issues too:

One is that the players are - or appear to be - unable to play to Mikel Arteta's plan, shape, style, vision - which means either, 1) they are not able to do so, lack the skills, or ability, or training, to carry out such plans, or, 2) they are asked to do too much, or, 3) what is asked of them is not made clear, in other words, that they don't understand what they are supposed to do (all of which is on the manager).

If a scheme or plan or shape is beyond the players, you change either the players, or the plan.

If the former, you find (buy, beg, borrow, grow, nurture) players who can play to your plan, or your vision; if the latter, well, then, it becomes necessary for you to adapt the plan to the players you have, alter or amend the plan, and make sure that they understand what they are supposed to do. However, ultimately, it is on the manager to ascertain what can be achieved with the resources (players) at your disposal, and respond accordingly to the challenges posed by opposing teams.

In general, I tend to favour giving managers at the very least, four transfer windows - they need that long to craft or create a team that they have in mind, and, in fairness, Arsenal has had an awful lot of deadwood (overpaid, under achieving, under motivated, deadwood) to offload, for they have been in decline for well over a decade.

Re Ronaldo, to my mind, his purchase was not just a sentimental (and expensive) indulgence, but one, I think, that will serve to unbalance the team, as catering to him, serving him, will devour onfield resources (time, effort, energy, attention, space, other options).

Yes, he will score goals, - however, that has not been Manchester United's problem - but he will also demand that his needs are prioritised, that the team be built around him, and that may cost the team.

I hope you are wrong about Ronaldo for the sake of my team, but I’m not holding my breath.

 

[HandsomeDanNZ]

A good win for England today.

Man City fans would have looked at the linkup play between Grealish and Kane with some longing in that second half!

Overall a pretty good second half from England, but they really need to come out of the blocks a little faster, in my opinion.

Other scores were more muted with the notable exceptions of Northern Ireland (4-1 winners), Belgium (5-2 win) and Poland (4-1 win).

Very surprised that Germany only managed a 2-0 win over Lichtenstein.

 

[Apple fanboy]

A good win for England today.

Man City fans would have looked at the linkup play between Grealish and Kane with some longing in that second half!

Overall a pretty good second half from England, but they really need to come out of the blocks a little faster, in my opinion.

Other scores were more muted with the notable exceptions of Northern Ireland (4-1 winners), Belgium (5-2 win) and Poland (4-1 win).

Very surprised that Germany only managed a 2-0 win over Lichtenstein.

A rare goal from Declan Rice as well.

 

[pachyderm]

Int breaks still suck...

 

[Apple fanboy]

Int breaks still suck...

Agreed. England v Andora. Hardly much of a challenge.
Still good run out for some of the fringe players.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Poor old Republic of Ireland are looking very creaky against Azerbaijan. They tried so hard against Portugal and were crushed at the death, but now they go into halftime a goal down thanks to some schoolboy defending.

Don't diss Ali Daei! He was pretty good back in his day.

Oh, absolutely. Some have portrayed him as nothing more than a statistical oddity but he was a very good player and enjoyed a long career. One thing both he and Ronaldo share in their record goalscoring careers is a penchant for running up big goal tallies against minnow teams. Ronaldo has slotted quite a few past the likes of Andorra, Lithuania, Luxembourg...

I am not trying to minimize either's achievements, but it does show that achieving this kind of goalscoring record is built on three pillars: 1) being an excellent goalscorer 2) staying consistently healthy and at the top of your game for an unusually long period of time, leading to a lot of international starts 3) being ruthless against inferior opponents.

Many great players meet two of those three criteria, but it's much rarer to hit all three.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

I was quite sceptical when Everton signed Joshua King in the January window, and less then surprised when he was released this Summer without scoring a single goal in the league (even though to be fair he got no starts and just 11 appearances from the bench).

Now, the last two matches from Norway he's gotten 4 or 5 HUGE chances, but missed all of them. In yesterday's match he came on late, but got two really big chances, on the first one he hit the post with a header, the second one, well, look for yourselves: https://wittyfutty.com/2021/09/video-josh-king-with-ridiculous-miss-vs-latvia/

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Columbus drop another one, this time a 3-2 loss at Orlando. Ugh, Nani. I hate Nani.

Columbus are now missing their best center back (Mensah) and best forward (Zardes). Big Vito Wormgoor, the perennially-injured center back who was supposed to be Mensah's long-term partner, is not living up to the hype. Kevin Molino was a waste of money as he has picked up a very long-term injury just a couple games into his Columbus career. Bradley Wright-Philips has not really had much impact. Zelarayan is as good as ever but he can't do it all himself and he's probably trying to do too much right now.

There is a very real danger of missing the playoffs despite winning the league last season. That's MLS parity for you. We're not getting blown away, but we are a little light in attack and we are leaking stupid goals in every match.

Now, the last two matches from Norway he's gotten 4 or 5 HUGE chances, but missed all of them. In yeaterday's match he came on late, but got two really big chances, on the first one he hit the post with a header, the second one, well, look for yourselves: https://wittyfutty.com/2021/09/video-josh-king-with-ridiculous-miss-vs-latvia/

That is brutal. He's obviously got the game intelligence and athleticism to get into good positions, but he just appears to be a duff finisher.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Seems like Everton rather should have signed Lee Mack:

Soccer Aid 2021: Lee Mack scores winning goal as match raises £13million

Lee Mack redeemed his track record at Soccer Aid.

metro.co.uk

Edit: Actually, eerily similar situation:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1434258450997993474

 

[Lord Blackadder]

England look in no danger of failing to win against Andorra though they are laboring against a packed defense. This is just the sort of dull mismatch that makes people complain about international football. I love international football, but sometimes the matches are impossible to care about.

Seems like Everton rather should have signed Lee Mack:

Love the Rob Brydon shirt celebration.

I watch a lot of QI and always found Lee Mack a funny panelist. Hilarious to see him on the pitch and good to see so much money being raised for charity.

I heard Jamie Carragher put in some meaty challenges in that match.

 

[JamesMike]

I agree, but at least they got the win.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

England are sticking to their usual script as they sail through qualifying easily. Now they just need to fail in the actual tournament and they'll be right on track.

Top amateur golfer Gareth Bale scored a hat trick today, keeping Wales in the running for qualification.