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The 2022-2023 Football Thread

Apple fanboy said:
Wrong. We’ve said all along what our valuation is. Arsenal have tried to get him below that. Not West Ham’s fault. If they had come up with £100 million plus a player the deal would have been done by now. We are under no obligation to accept a low price.
As for Rice’s desire to go to Arsenal, that was before City showed an interest. Not saying he wants City over Arsenal (as none of us know), just that Arsenal was the best option available at the time.
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Once Rice knew he was up for sale, if he has a preference of what club he wants to join then he should have said 'I hope x club comes calling'. He never did that. Peoples attitudes have changed for the worst over the years. Once a hand shake or a person's word was all it took for a deal to be signed sealed and delivered because once upon a time a persons word meant something. Now it means nothing because in this case, a player will say one thing and then go full circle and say another, same with a club. Now it's all about how to screw over the other person to try and get as much money as they can.

If Rice want's to stay in London because his family want to stay there then he should be adamant with West Ham telling them that he want's to sign with Arsenal. If the club refuse because the valuation on him has not been met and they are waiting on a club to meet or exceed the valuation, Rice again should be adamant and say he wants to move to Arsenal and again if the club refuse and say he will go to what ever club comes in with the highest offer (being traded like a piece of meat), then he should refuse and see out his contract at the club and leave for free.

but we will now see what the character of Rice is truly like. Will he force a move to Arsenal and thus stay in London with his family or will he be the mercenary type and go to a club that offers more wages.
 
laptech said:
Once Rice knew he was up for sale, if he has a preference of what club he wants to join then he should have said 'I hope x club comes calling'. He never did that. Peoples attitudes have changed for the worst over the years. Once a hand shake or a person's word was all it took for a deal to be signed sealed and delivered because once upon a time a persons word meant something. Now it means nothing because in this case, a player will say one thing and then go full circle and say another, same with a club. Now it's all about how to screw over the other person to try and get as much money as they can.

If Rice want's to stay in London because his family want to stay there then he should be adamant with West Ham telling them that he want's to sign with Arsenal. If the club refuse because the valuation on him has not been met and they are waiting on a club to meet or exceed the valuation, Rice again should be adamant and say he wants to move to Arsenal and again if the club refuse and say he will go to what ever club comes in with the highest offer (being traded like a piece of meat), then he should refuse and see out his contract at the club and leave for free.

but we will now see what the character of Rice is truly like. Will he force a move to Arsenal and thus stay in London with his family or will he be the mercenary type and go to a club that offers more wages.
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I think Rice and West Ham have both handled the situation well thus far. No tantrums from the player or refusing to negotiate from the club.
 
Apple fanboy said:
I think Rice and West Ham have both handled the situation well thus far. No tantrums from the player or refusing to negotiate from the club.
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Well a negative for Rice could be his partner. They are parents to a young child and thus I have no doubt his partner would want the support of her friends and family close by, her parents I would assume. If the majority of their family live in and around London, how will they feel if Rice was to move up North? would the family be happy having to drive 2-3hrs to see them and the child? not many families are prepared to do that nowadays.
 
laptech said:
Well a negative for Rice could be his partner. They are parents to a young child and thus I have no doubt his partner would want the support of her friends and family close by, her parents I would assume. If the majority of their family live in and around London, how will they feel if Rice was to move up North? would the family be happy having to drive 2-3hrs to see them and the child? not many families are prepared to do that nowadays.
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We did. Didn’t have a choice. I expect it’s a bit easier to manage on £300k a week.
 
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Apple fanboy said:
We did. Didn’t have a choice. I expect it’s a bit easier to manage on £300k a week.
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He is good but £300k good? not in my opinion because he has not been tested in a top performing team which comes with more pressure, more demands and superior fitness. Top clubs have been littered with players who were labeled as being 'the best at what they do' or being at 'the top of what they do' and get a huge wage when they move to a top club but then find they struggle and begin to underperform. Then the club is stuck with a very high paid player who struggles to fit in the team. Could Rice turn out to be such a player?. Who knows.
 
laptech said:
He is good but £300k good? not in my opinion because he has not been tested in a top performing team which comes with more pressure, more demands and superior fitness. Top clubs have been littered with players who were labeled as being 'the best at what they do' or being at 'the top of what they do' and get a huge wage when they move to a top club but then find they struggle and begin to underperform. Then the club is stuck with a very high paid player who struggles to fit in the team. Could Rice turn out to be such a player?. Who knows.
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I’m guessing at £300k. We offered him £200k.
 
laptech said:
but we will now see what the character of Rice is truly like. Will he force a move to Arsenal and thus stay in London with his family or will he be the mercenary type and go to a club that offers more wages.
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Will he take a gigantic pay packet at Arsenal or a slightly more gigantic pay packet at Man City? I have to say, I don't see either choice as being indicative of 'character.' For £200k a week I'd live on a remote island off the coast of Scotland.

But if he goes to Man City, it will be one more reason why next season will be a dreary affair, with Man City steamrolling to the title.
 
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Lord Blackadder said:
Will he take a gigantic pay packet at Arsenal or a slightly more gigantic pay packet at Man City? I have to say, I don't see either choice as being indicative of 'character.' For £200k a week I'd live on a remote island off the coast of Scotland.

But if he goes to Man City, it will be one more reason why next season will be a dreary affair, with Man City steamrolling to the title.
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I’d live in a remote island off Scotland for what I earn now!

Agree if he does go to City it won’t be any easier to beat them next year.
 
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I do not understand why Arsenal have been prepared to buy Kai Havertz, - who strikes me as a player with a great future behind him - while not immediately doing what was necessary to copper-fasten the purchase of Declan Rice.
 
Scepticalscribe said:
I do not understand why Arsenal have been prepared to buy Kai Havertz, - who strikes me as a player with a great future behind him - while not immediately doing what was necessary to copper-fasten the purchase of Declan Rice.
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Arsenal has form here. Why did Wenger hate defensive midfielders so much? 😆

There are only two ways to compete at the top of the Premier League:

1) Consistently match the spending power of the richest clubs and win bidding wars against them.
2) Consistently punch above your weight by paying modest sums for players who are just about to step up to the next level in terms of performance (e.g. Mo Salah when Liverpool bought him).

Number 2 is a constant gamble and not really sustainable. Number 1 now requires state ownership.
 
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Apple fanboy said:
I’d live in a remote island off Scotland for what I earn now!

Agree if he does go to City it won’t be any easier to beat them next year.
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That's assuming he can step up to the high demands City places upon it's players. Just because he plays well at West Ham does not mean he is going to be able to do it at the most highest level. Only time will tell.

Edit: Also, we have no idea if Rice wants to move to Manchester. He could say no to City regardless of what offers they put in.
 
laptech said:
That's assuming he can step up to the high demands City places upon it's players. Just because he plays well at West Ham does not mean he is going to be able to do it at the most highest level. Only time will tell.

Edit: Also, we have no idea if Rice wants to move to Manchester. He could say no to City regardless of what offers they put in.
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Based on what I have seen from him, Rice looks like the real deal. But of course nothing is guaranteed, it is possible that he either doesn't fit or takes a long time to bed into Pep's system. Grealish took time and is arguably still not at his potential.

But Man City can easily afford the risk, even at £100m, while for Arsenal if he doesn't make an immediate impact it really upsets the apple cart.
 
laptech said:
That's assuming he can step up to the high demands City places upon it's players. Just because he plays well at West Ham does not mean he is going to be able to do it at the most highest level. Only time will tell.

Edit: Also, we have no idea if Rice wants to move to Manchester. He could say no to City regardless of what offers they put in.
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Rice is the real deal. He has proved that in a mediocre West Ham team and playing for England. I think he played every minute of our last campaign.
 
Lord Blackadder said:
Based on what I have seen from him, Rice looks like the real deal. But of course nothing is guaranteed, it is possible that he either doesn't fit or takes a long time to bed into Pep's system. Grealish took time and is arguably still not at his potential.

But Man City can easily afford the risk, even at £100m, while for Arsenal if he doesn't make an immediate impact it really upsets the apple cart.
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I think Greelish took time to find his place because he was used to being the only option at Villa. At City he had to compete for his place in the team and then find a way to play with the excellent KDB amongst others.
 
Lord Blackadder said:
Arsenal has form here. Why did Wenger hate defensive midfielders so much? 😆

There are only two ways to compete at the top of the Premier League:

1) Consistently match the spending power of the richest clubs and win bidding wars against them.
2) Consistently punch above your weight by paying modest sums for players who are just about to step up to the next level in terms of performance (e.g. Mo Salah when Liverpool bought him).

Number 2 is a constant gamble and not really sustainable. Number 1 now requires state ownership.
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Yes, Arsenal has indeed form here: However, it is high time - high past time - that they gave thought to changing that form.

I greatly admired Wenger, and thought him an excellent manager and a decent and ethical human being, but, his time has passed, and, Arsenal need to learn from what he did well and discard any attempt to replicate his blind spots.
 
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Scepticalscribe said:
Yes, Arsenal has indeed form here: However, it is high time - high past time - that they gave thought to changing that form.

I greatly admired Wenger, and thought him an excellent mnaager and a decent and ethical human being, but, his time has passed, and, Arsenal need to learn from what he did well and discard any attempt to replicate his blind spots.
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Wenger, the only manager of a modern day English league team to go a full season unbeaten. Not even some of English club greats managers have achieved that, Bob Paisley, Bill Shankly, Matt Busby, Brian Clough, Alex Ferguson, all fell short.

Being a fan of football I am still in awe of what Wenger and Arsenal achieved that year. Even with all the plaudits Man City have, I do not think they will go a season unbeaten.
 
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