Man Utd were much better in the night I would say. Just need some of our many injured or suspended back in the squad. I wasn’t expecting that defeat even though liverpool are missing players based on Utds awful previous games.
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The 2022-2023 Football Thread
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Man Utd were much better in the night I would say. Just need some of our many injured or suspended back in the squad. I wasn’t expecting that defeat even though liverpool are missing players based on Utds awful previous games.
I was looking forward to the possibility of ManU being relegated... lol
In what universe is Ronaldo ever considered better than Messi? LOL
Messi has better stats in pretty much everything and is younger as well, 7 Balon D'or to 5 as well, not looking good for Ronaldo. Ronaldo has to have good teams around him otherwise he is garbage ( current Man Utd prove this) ...Messi can singlehandedly destroy teams even if those around him aren't any good.
I"d argue that Ronaldo had a better 2021-2022 season than Messi did, playing in a much weaker team.
I personally don't have much time for Messi v Ronaldo debates: they're #1 and #1a on the all-time lists; fans of either player can find stats to justify their arguments, but for me the overall difference is razor-thin, if not completely nonexistent. We should all count our blessings we were around to watch those two play: I was too young to watch Pele in his prime and didn't follow football closely enough to watch Maradona outside of the odd World Cup match.
Anyway, I greatly appreciate the ongoing respectful and insightful dialog we've had in these threads over the years, even amongst the Liverpool and Utd fans amongst us. Long may it continue.
I personally don't have much time for Messi v Ronaldo debates: they're #1 and #1a on the all-time lists; fans of either player can find stats to justify their arguments, but for me the overall difference is razor-thin, if not completely nonexistent. We should all count our blessings we were around to watch those two play: I was too young to watch Pele in his prime and didn't follow football closely enough to watch Maradona outside of the odd World Cup match.
Anyway, I greatly appreciate the ongoing respectful and insightful dialog we've had in these threads over the years, even amongst the Liverpool and Utd fans amongst us. Long may it continue.
I don’t want this to happen but Man Utd are a better team without Ronaldo on the pitch. For that reason alone I hope he stays.
Well, you're going to be in the minority on that one. In a world where one can easily rattle off a very long list of bad to terrible football club owners, Ashley stands out in the public consciousness as a particularly stark example.
I find the Messi v Ronaldo 'debate' to be possibly the most useless footballing discussion of all time. Few would argue that they are both easily among the most talented and successful players of all time, so right off the bat it's a pedantic affair with, as you say, razor-thin margins. Moreover, they are different types of players, making absolute rankings an approximation at best. And even those, also as you pointed out, fail to properly account for different eras of the game and the potential for past 'greatest' players to be 'greater' than Messi and Ronaldo in meaningful ways*. And even once you've drawn a conclusion it's going to be somewhat subjective and open to further debate.
It can be fun to debate in a good, knowledgable crowd, but not with a random Real Madrid fan you meet in a pub. They always end up shouting.
*Many people who saw Maradona in the flesh still think he was the best player of all time, even after having watched Messi and Ronaldo put up their crazy numbers. Many say the same of Pele. So the overwhelming focus on Messi and Ronaldo stems partly from recency - the era of super-detailed stats collection and the fact that every wonderful thing they've done on the pitch has been filmed. Players like Dixie Dean don't have that privilege.
Seconded. There is enough pain in being a football fan, no need to make it worse by being jerks to each other. 😂
I'm old enough to have seen George Best play, and in his prime. So that's always my benchmark when we're reflecting upon 'who's the greatest footballer'. I remember a match at Newcastle United's St.James's Park stadium. Whenever Best got the ball it seemed like the entire crowd had a collective intake of breath as they awaited the next extraordinary example of his footballing talents, more akin to ballet at times so sublime were they. This was in the era of Bobby Charlton and Denis Law, no slouches either of them. But George was the man to excite the crowds supporting both Uniteds that day
There have been great players down the years and Manchester United were certainly lucky to have had Cristiano Ronaldo so early in his career. It was another Ronaldo, however, who earned an Old Trafford standing ovation when the Red Devils played Real Madrid in the 2003 Champions League quarter final. Their Ronaldo scored a hat trick and was then substituted. The crowd knew it had been witness to a very special player indeed and rose to its feet to pay tribute. As a United fan I was delighted to see the crowd's generosity of spirit and acknowledgement of a true great, despite my disappointment at the overall result. I was also gratified to learn later that the Real Madrid manager (or possibly it was their chairman) had been profoundly moved by the home crowd's reaction to his player's exceptional performance, especially considering Ronaldo had effectively dumped United out of the tournament despite winning four-three on the night. It's also, understandably, one of Ronaldo's favourite moments, by all accounts.
There have been great players down the years and Manchester United were certainly lucky to have had Cristiano Ronaldo so early in his career. It was another Ronaldo, however, who earned an Old Trafford standing ovation when the Red Devils played Real Madrid in the 2003 Champions League quarter final. Their Ronaldo scored a hat trick and was then substituted. The crowd knew it had been witness to a very special player indeed and rose to its feet to pay tribute. As a United fan I was delighted to see the crowd's generosity of spirit and acknowledgement of a true great, despite my disappointment at the overall result. I was also gratified to learn later that the Real Madrid manager (or possibly it was their chairman) had been profoundly moved by the home crowd's reaction to his player's exceptional performance, especially considering Ronaldo had effectively dumped United out of the tournament despite winning four-three on the night. It's also, understandably, one of Ronaldo's favourite moments, by all accounts.
I've only seen Best on film. The immediate impression was that the game was much slower - crappy pitch, heavy ball, primitive training methods...
...BUT Best's movement, touch, decision-making and technical capability were clearly superb. I am confident that with modern training, a modern ball, and a modern pitch, Best would still be a world-class player today. And, given the increased amount of emotional support athletes get these days, perhaps his tragic later career/life trajectory would never have happened.
Watching players like him does make me question the point of the 'best player' debate....it's so hard to compare players across eras.
One of my favorite examples is Matthias Sindelar. He might be one of the top five all-time players, but so little footage exists of him, and the game was so different in his era, that it's impossible to assess him the way we do with modern payers.
Yes, a lot has changed in football as the years have passed. My late uncle, a professional goalkeeper, remembered how back in the 50s the team bus would sometimes stop at a fish and chip shop on the way home after the team had played an away game so that players and staff could have their tea. What would Cristiano have made of that, I wonder?
As a young player my uncle lived in digs, supervised by a benevolent landlady, which young players invariably did, back then. These days they're millionaires and have the run of their supermansions but little supervision. Mason Greenwood might have benefited from some of the old ways, perhaps, primitive though they may now seem, though that heavy leather ball is certainly best consigned to history.
As a young player my uncle lived in digs, supervised by a benevolent landlady, which young players invariably did, back then. These days they're millionaires and have the run of their supermansions but little supervision. Mason Greenwood might have benefited from some of the old ways, perhaps, primitive though they may now seem, though that heavy leather ball is certainly best consigned to history.
I also was lucky enough to see George Best play in the flesh. Alas, it was for the San Jose Earthquakes in 1981 and he was thoroughly washed, but still! Watching him in his prime with Denis Law and Sir Bobby must've been a real treat.
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ESPN’s documentary on Best showed a couple clips of his San Jose era, and while the pace of the game is really slow and the quality of the players pretty uneven, he still had a fantastic touch and vision and played some impressive football.
He did it in a two horse race and then went to a farmers league. Never back himself to show the world what he could do in the best league in the world. Ronald is still getting a decent strike rate at 37 in a crap team.
Tbf first 3 fixtures have been tricky. You played the champions, then a hungry newly promoted side, then your bogey team.
Quality is there, just need to get going. Also i think some of your players need to be dropped.
Antonio is no longer the answer, he had a good spell but other teams have figured him out AND he's ageing.
It seems Moyes can be too loyal to players at times (Cresswell, Antonio, Felaini)
Antonio does well at leading the line even when he doesn’t score. But your right. The City game was never going to be easy. The Forest Game was their first top flight game in a generation.
Just need to beat Villa on the weekend. But another European night Thursday won’t do us any favours in the PL.
I have a hard time believing he'll be worth it. He's offered some tantalizing patches of play, but I get the feeling that the PL will be a step too far for him.
Nowhere near worth it but room to grow i suppose.
English clubs are getting milked left, right, and centre. We live in a world where £76m is not enough to sign an unproven player from Ajax.
In other news
Dont think any of the English clubs can complain. The Scottish clubs however...
English clubs are getting milked left, right, and centre. We live in a world where £76m is not enough to sign an unproven player from Ajax.
In other news
Dont think any of the English clubs can complain. The Scottish clubs however...
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I've sadly only seen Best at the pub - and on Telly. In the pub he was just an ageing alcoholic. On the TV, it was archival footage and he was sublime.
There’s just a real shortage of quality forwards at the moment. The market is over inflated and we had to bring in a striker.
I won’t lie his stats don’t look great but I don’t think the club have made a bad purchase so far so I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Some would argue Wood is that but we had to buy a premier league proven striker in January and wood had a release clause, experience fighting at the wrong end and although last season was poor goal wise he’s previously not had a bad scoring rate.
We couldn’t be sitting in the championship wishing we had just overpaid on Chris wood to perhaps of saved us.