At least they don’t leave the customers hanging with massive bugs
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The AW Ultra suddenly seems like a bargain now with Garmins silly pricing
- Thread starter dj1891
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At least they don’t leave the customers hanging with massive bugs
No one is a fan of the direction Garmin signaled this week and while nothing was taken away and little appeared to be added, it causes concern in a user base who previously enjoyed not having to even give any mental energy to such matters. That said Apple is far from a subscription free experience and their past precedent suggests future subscription concerns there as well.
Agreed 100%. Garmin stupidlyl weakened their biggest strength.
Agreed 100%.
Yes and the even bigger concern right now is Apple and the next version of their Watch OS. It isn't just a concern for Garmin but also a big concern for Apple.
The pattern for Garmin especially for Apple is clear. If hardware sales stall or stagnant, what is the next step?
Apple Watch Faces Major Setback in 2024 As Market Shrinks and Rivals Surge - SimplyMac
The once-thriving smartwatch market has hit its first serious stumbling block in 2024, marking a pivotal moment for the industry—and an even more troubling
www.simplymac.com
Apple Watch sales were already stalling and now falling. This was likely what led to them trying to add more health features in the first place.
Apple in the last year has introduced AW 10 which was a thinner design but that was on top of a watch that added double tap the year before.
However the real issue has been when they've added those features people have noted that they were better than they nothing there before but seemed to be curiously missing what was really needed.
You can mirror an activity to your phone but you can't have any navigation for cycling and other activities.
You can have health metrics but they are graphs with no numbers.
You can have fitness metrics displayed but no real customization and no real analysis at even the most basic level.
I don't think it is an accident at this stage. I think it will be part of a subscription service offered by Apple.
Well, not to stir the pot but sounds like Apple Health+ to match Garmin Connect+?
www.macrumors.com
Really annoyed with all of these AI initiatives. Strava's implementation is equally terrible.
Edge + Watch is still a sticky factor on Garmin for me. I tried Wahoo/Karoo + Apple Watch combos. They're modern, a lot nicer to look at but I guess I'm just getting old; I end up annoyed with having to manage too many different devices and platforms. I am not bailing on Garmin yet, but it will definitely slow down my Day 1 impulse buys whenever they announce new devices.
iOS 19.4 Rumored to Revamp Health App With New Coaching Feature
Apple plans to introduce a revamped Health app on the iPhone as early as iOS 19.4 next year, according to Bloomberg's Mark Gurman. In his Power...
www.macrumors.com
Really annoyed with all of these AI initiatives. Strava's implementation is equally terrible.
Edge + Watch is still a sticky factor on Garmin for me. I tried Wahoo/Karoo + Apple Watch combos. They're modern, a lot nicer to look at but I guess I'm just getting old; I end up annoyed with having to manage too many different devices and platforms. I am not bailing on Garmin yet, but it will definitely slow down my Day 1 impulse buys whenever they announce new devices.
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Especially if they maintain the high pricing that used to be in exchange for "all the included features"
Once they start breaking out features onto paid tiers, even if they are ones I don't want, it's a net negative since it steals development resources and focus and invariably makes its way into the App design, etc
AI costs a lot at runtime, we can understand it can’t be free…Well, not to stir the pot but sounds like Apple Health+ to match Garmin Connect+?
iOS 19.4 Rumored to Revamp Health App With New Coaching Feature
Apple plans to introduce a revamped Health app on the iPhone as early as iOS 19.4 next year, according to Bloomberg's Mark Gurman. In his Power...
Really annoyed with all of these AI initiatives. Strava's implementation is equally terrible.
Edge + Watch is still a sticky factor on Garmin for me. I tried Wahoo/Karoo + Apple Watch combos. It's modern, a lot nicer to look at but I guess I'm just getting old, I end up annoyed with having to manage too many different devices and platforms. I am not bailing on Garmin yet but it will definitely slow down my Day 1 impulse buys whenever they announce new devices.
But … do we need AI to analyse workouts ?
It’s a buzz word, everything needs to embrace AI, a couple of years ago, everything was « connected « , including a toothbrush or a washing machine.
It’s up to the user to decide to use expensive technology for simple needs.
True. The F8 release I will chalk up to they added the extra hardening for diving and some smartwatch extras - but the selling price for the next releases will be a tell. Once you're over $1k, the Apple Watch is more compelling back to OP topic.
100% this. Strava I can't even turn it off. Their whole new look with quick edits, etc is awful.
Connect+ > fine, I don't have to subscribe as long as Garmin keep their offerings as the "extra" bit. If they start omitting features on the next flagship devices because you don't use Connect+, I personally don't think they'll do that (yet). However they certainly did some damage this week to their image and the internet loves to rage on things. And their software quality is pants compared to others. Again, forgivable until you make me pay extra (in unit price or subs).
Apple Health+ (if that really ends up happening) - the credit I give them is their platform offers the most comprehensive native look to all our metrics. We can argue the value of it but no one has as many categories native as Apple Health does. Time in Sun? Hearing monitoring? (Btw, why doesn't Garmin capture "time in sun" with their solar watches? Seems a missed opportunity for another "Garmin" stat). If Apple keeps it as an enhancement related to coaching vs feature replacement and we retain choice, it may end up OK as well.
News regarding Garmin:
Here's what they said:
At Garmin, we have always strived to create the best possible experience for athletes, adventurers, and everyday users. Our goal has never been just to sell products, but to build a community of people who trust us to support their goals with reliable, innovative technology.
Over the past few days, we've heard you loud and clear. The introduction of Garmin Connect+ was a mistake. We misjudged how deeply our customers value the openness and accessibility of our platform, and we failed to communicate our intentions clearly. Many of you felt this was a shift in our philosophy— one that prioritised monetisation over the trust we've built over decades. That was never our intention, but we now realise that intention doesn't matter if we've let our customers down.
Because of this, we are discontinuing the Garmin Connect+ subscription service, effective immediately. With the exception of Active Intelilgence (Al) which we have withdrawn, the features introduced under this plan will be made available to all users at no additional cost. We are also committing to a renewed focus on delivering innovation without
compromising the values that brought you to Garmin in the first place.
We deeply appreciate your feedback, your passion, and your honesty. Garmin exists because of you, and we will continue to listen, learn, and improve. [Clifford Pemble, CEO,
Garmin
Here's what they said:
At Garmin, we have always strived to create the best possible experience for athletes, adventurers, and everyday users. Our goal has never been just to sell products, but to build a community of people who trust us to support their goals with reliable, innovative technology.
Over the past few days, we've heard you loud and clear. The introduction of Garmin Connect+ was a mistake. We misjudged how deeply our customers value the openness and accessibility of our platform, and we failed to communicate our intentions clearly. Many of you felt this was a shift in our philosophy— one that prioritised monetisation over the trust we've built over decades. That was never our intention, but we now realise that intention doesn't matter if we've let our customers down.
Because of this, we are discontinuing the Garmin Connect+ subscription service, effective immediately. With the exception of Active Intelilgence (Al) which we have withdrawn, the features introduced under this plan will be made available to all users at no additional cost. We are also committing to a renewed focus on delivering innovation without
compromising the values that brought you to Garmin in the first place.
We deeply appreciate your feedback, your passion, and your honesty. Garmin exists because of you, and we will continue to listen, learn, and improve. [Clifford Pemble, CEO,
Garmin
Sad. So Fenix 9 will be 1500€ to cover the lost subscription fees? 🤣
PS: happy 1st of April.
Well, not to stir the pot but sounds like Apple Health+ to match Garmin Connect+?
iOS 19.4 Rumored to Revamp Health App With New Coaching Feature
Apple plans to introduce a revamped Health app on the iPhone as early as iOS 19.4 next year, according to Bloomberg's Mark Gurman. In his Power...
Really annoyed with all of these AI initiatives. Strava's implementation is equally terrible.
Edge + Watch is still a sticky factor on Garmin for me. I tried Wahoo/Karoo + Apple Watch combos. They're modern, a lot nicer to look at but I guess I'm just getting old; I end up annoyed with having to manage too many different devices and platforms. I am not bailing on Garmin yet, but it will definitely slow down my Day 1 impulse buys whenever they announce new devices.
Agree - I am a Strava subscriber, but not for the AI... It is a pretty useless implementation to give me a fancy summary of a run I already know how went "Killer 10K run - with most of the time spent in the endurance zone and some spikes in the higher heart rate zones"
Well... I kind of already knew that
The use case of a Garmin is so niche over what the Ultra (or even a non-ultra for some) can do. Once the price of Garmin skyrocketed… and now the “there’s no sub needed” argument dies… I can’t see why someone would get a new Garmin over an AW if they have an iPhone already.
Not saying people won’t.. of course they will… but why? If someone is doing truly extreme sports or tactical needs.. I get it. But that is such a small percent of the market.
Not saying people won’t.. of course they will… but why? If someone is doing truly extreme sports or tactical needs.. I get it. But that is such a small percent of the market.
What's fake about garmin battery life? I get about 20 days on either of my garmin watches and that's with around 4 - 5 hours of gps activity per week.
I do want a more tactile button based running watch that isn't so reliant on touch.
I was pretty close to pulling the trigger on a Forerunner 265, but prices here in Canada shot up a few months ago.
For the price of a 265, I could get an Apple Watch 10, but I'd rather have the Ultra with the additional action button.
BTW, if Apple felt sales of their Ultra line stalling, they could quickly kickstart it by simply offering a smaller sized version. I mean they've excluded half the population (women who are often smaller in size) by having only a 49mm model.
I was pretty close to pulling the trigger on a Forerunner 265, but prices here in Canada shot up a few months ago.
For the price of a 265, I could get an Apple Watch 10, but I'd rather have the Ultra with the additional action button.
BTW, if Apple felt sales of their Ultra line stalling, they could quickly kickstart it by simply offering a smaller sized version. I mean they've excluded half the population (women who are often smaller in size) by having only a 49mm model.
Yeah a smaller version would appeal to many - just like the smaller normal watches have done for a long time
If you want a running watch what does it matter how the 265 price compares to AW 10?
True. They are different types of watches.
I suppose I was speaking from a cost perspective. I wouldn't spend $600 CAD on an AW10, so I can't see spending $650 for a FR265.
That said, I'm still hoping one day the AW evolves into a running watch. I love the accuracy. The metrics and training software is getting better each year. More tweaks to customize usability and an action button would go a long way.
The smaller version wouldn’t have the battery life that makes it so “ultra” in the first place. Apple promises 36 hours with the giant Ultra2. Anything smaller would likely only be able to be advertised as 24 hours vs 18 on the regular watches.
I’m not sure how much of this is true, but I read that part of the reason why Garmin is able to have a longer battery life is because it doesn’t ping servers as often as a smart, Apple Watch might.
If true, perhaps Apple could gain battery times by allowing users to turn off certain features if it’s not required for specific activities.
Rumoured new micro-led displays allow for local dimming and maybe additional battery times.
Regardless I still think they should release a smaller ultra even if they only hit the 18 hour mark. Call it an Ultra SE if they want to.
One can out their watches into low power mode. Of course that disables certain features. It depends if you value battery life over functionality.
CPU and GPU power is much higher than what we have in sport watch
System activity is much higher, background services are taxing.
The API and SDK are more complex and flexible, it’s a complete OS.
An Apple Watch is like a small iPhone.
It’s a completely different device than a Coros or Garmin sport watch.
System activity is much higher, background services are taxing.
The API and SDK are more complex and flexible, it’s a complete OS.
An Apple Watch is like a small iPhone.
It’s a completely different device than a Coros or Garmin sport watch.
It’s called low power mode. I did ultra runs with that mode without any issues and great accuracy (I am using the Stryd pod)
I don't care about battery life. I just want the flat, brighter screen. If that's not "ultra" then Apple can call it something else, as another poster has suggested.