As someone who has a Fenix 8 and AWU2. If the Fenix 8 HR is that bad then AWU2’s is just as bad. I have identical average HR readings from both watches. I mean, at least Garmin still has blood oxygen. Hopefully Apple can steal someone else’s patent. Seriously, they are both great watches and I’m not sure why the back and forth for so long. If someone likes Apple Watch, that’s amazing and good for you. If you like Garmin, that’s amazing and good for you. Everyone has their use case and neither is perfect.
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The AW Ultra suddenly seems like a bargain now with Garmins silly pricing
- Thread starter dj1891
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It wouldn’t call it hate. But it’s a very expensive watch. I bought it based on advertisement and dcrainmakers (influencer of garmin). In the end it was a wrong decision based on my experience. There is nothing smart. Nothing accurate. Even the cheapest Apple Watch is much better than the garmin. I am also very disappointed about the battery life. No hate. But as a serious sports man I am definitely preferring the Apple Watch Ultra.
This week I checked again the garmin. Again Problems with the Stryd pod. Connection lost during the run. I had never an issue with that on my Apple Watch. After the update garmin power was active again. I hate that. So many issues with that watch. Unbelievable
AW9 daily user looking at the Garmin D2 X10 Aviation watch as I am starting my flight training for private pilot.
Can this Garmin add on the LTE cellular option as a subscription ?
Love the GPS vectoring, up to date weather and VFR conditions:
Can this Garmin add on the LTE cellular option as a subscription ?
Love the GPS vectoring, up to date weather and VFR conditions:
Thank you for clarifying this very important feature as I need cellular for GPS like my iPad running Foreflight.
A pretty big miss in the Garmin lineup is the cellular option - Many had high hopes for it on the Fenix 8 series, but it was nowhere to be found.
Agree - I was assuming Garmin would offer cellular as a sign on subscription when I saw this:
So my question: which Garmin watch offers this LTE cellular option ???
same, I have both a F8 and Ultra 2. Also had F7, F7 Pro, Ultra 1, etc etc. HR accuracy is not the hill to die on. When I wore both to "test", mostly biking, gym, swimming - the HR readings were always within one beat of each other. Long term trending of RHR is also the same.
HR broadcast on the Garmin is one feature I still love from them. I don't do HIIT or intervals so I'm content with having one less gadget on my body.
On the anti-Garmin side of the argument, they just announced Connect+ (DCR's link to it)
Every time I try to pick one side of the fence vs the other, 5 primary things kept me preferring Garmin;
1. Classic shape, look and buttons
2. Battery - YMMV but I experience 16-20 days easily
3. MIP screen
4. Garmin Connect being free
5. HR broadcast
With 3 & 4 being at risk, HR Broadcast would be my last solid reason. Shape and battery I am OK with on the Ultra.
And to the original OP question, is Ultra a bargain now compared to Garmin's pricing? Yes! (particularly with the increased pricing, the increased rate of releasing watches while abandoning other models and putting items behind a subscription) - not a fan of the direction Garmin is taking.
Every time I try to pick one side of the fence vs the other, 5 primary things kept me preferring Garmin;
1. Classic shape, look and buttons
2. Battery - YMMV but I experience 16-20 days easily
3. MIP screen
4. Garmin Connect being free
5. HR broadcast
With 3 & 4 being at risk, HR Broadcast would be my last solid reason. Shape and battery I am OK with on the Ultra.
And to the original OP question, is Ultra a bargain now compared to Garmin's pricing? Yes! (particularly with the increased pricing, the increased rate of releasing watches while abandoning other models and putting items behind a subscription) - not a fan of the direction Garmin is taking.
Garmin Connect+ seems like a dangerous path for Garmin - From the management office, it might seem like an easy money grab, but in the 20 pages of this thread, many arguments (outside of battery life) is "all is included out of the box". Now you have to pay to play - interesting to see how this plays out
Yes. They will put every new feature behind the paywall and there will be a moment where they cut off the sync to external platforms like Strava or TrainingPeaks.
The level of anger over Garmin Connect+ is substantial. Over on Reddit, people are furious. The fear is Garmin will stop developing any new features for Garmin Connect and instead push them to Garmin Connect+. Garmin Connect will just be "Keep the Lights On".
I have a buddy with a Garmin Fenix 7 Solar and a Garmin Epix Gen 2. He let me try each for two weeks. The Fenix 7 Solar was rather meh as with my old eyes, I couldn't see a thing inside. Even with the backlight on full and my glasses on, I couldn't read the smaller characters. However, outside in the bright sunshine, I could see everything without my glasses.
The Epix Gen 2 I could read everywhere. It's not as bright in the sun as the Apple Watch Ultra, but it's ok. It's nice to have actual buttons for everything. They are quite tactile. Other than the buttons, the UX isn't as nice as WatchOS. Takes forever to get anywhere and everything is buried somewhere.
All the metrics that Garmin gives you is interesting, but not much more then that. But I could see how this would motivate some people. The morning report at first was kinda cool, but then after a while it got annoying and I just wanted it to go away. I wouldn't suggest using any of those metrics to guide your training.
Garmin Connect is old. It's does what it's supposed to do, but it's in serious need of a refresh. The fact that there is no API to get at your data also is alarming.
There is an ability to access your data off the device using a USB cable. This is obviously a legacy thing. But, if you are someone who doesn't want to have their data in someone's cloud there is this option. I like the idea that my workout and health data is mine and doesn't have to go anywhere. With Apple, we just sorta have to trust them..
What is great is the flashlight ! Being able to tap a button twice at 4am before going to the bathroom is very helpful. You can do this on a AWU, but the two button tap thing is nice.. especially when you are half awake.
You will often hear that the Garmin is a Sports-watch with some smartwatch elements and the Apple Watch is a Smart-watch that acts like a Sports-watch. I think in terms of the physical aspect of the watch, including battery life, this is true. As for the software, I am not so certain. Apple's software is much, much better. UI and UX are better. It integrates quite well with the rest of the Apple ecosystem. Playing podcasts, music, switching apps while doing a workout, taking calls.. quick messaging. You can sorta do all this with Garmin, but it's kludgey.. Apple on the other hand doesn't have all the sports metrics that Garmin has, but I'd argue those metrics are a gimmick.. and I think the way apple is doing it will play out better in the long run.
This is probably an edge case, but we have a few cats that we let outside and they all have AirTags on them. Works quite well. With the Apple Watch, after my run, I could find where they are in the lane behind my house to bring them home.. Little things like that.. Being able to buy some groceries with my watch after my run (Garmin pay is pretty well non existent in Canada).. So while not directly related to running, these are things that are part of my run.
Garmin has always convinced people to buy new watches with new training scores.. But with Connect+ I think they have given up on that. I think the approach now will be to make Garmin watches a Flex item (like a Rolex) and then hope to make more recurring revenue with Connect+.. They may be ready to accept losing the low end and part of the middle tier to Apple. I mean, they already have. If we go by what people are using on Strava, Apple Watch dominates for shorter running distances and Garmin leads in longer distances. I would argue that runners who have been running for a while, started with Garmin and haven't stopped. Whereas new runners just use their Apple Watch.
The question then is, will this continue ? Will those new runners graduate to running longer and just keep their Apple Watches ? If so, Garmin is in trouble. This is why I think Garmin is leveraging their status as a "real sports watch" into a Flex item. A Rolex is cool, but whoa, look at that Garmin, you run marathons dude ?
I have the option to buy this Epix and I am tempted. The physical buttons and the battery life is quite nice.. But having to bring a phone with me on longer runs is rather annoying..
I have a buddy with a Garmin Fenix 7 Solar and a Garmin Epix Gen 2. He let me try each for two weeks. The Fenix 7 Solar was rather meh as with my old eyes, I couldn't see a thing inside. Even with the backlight on full and my glasses on, I couldn't read the smaller characters. However, outside in the bright sunshine, I could see everything without my glasses.
The Epix Gen 2 I could read everywhere. It's not as bright in the sun as the Apple Watch Ultra, but it's ok. It's nice to have actual buttons for everything. They are quite tactile. Other than the buttons, the UX isn't as nice as WatchOS. Takes forever to get anywhere and everything is buried somewhere.
All the metrics that Garmin gives you is interesting, but not much more then that. But I could see how this would motivate some people. The morning report at first was kinda cool, but then after a while it got annoying and I just wanted it to go away. I wouldn't suggest using any of those metrics to guide your training.
Garmin Connect is old. It's does what it's supposed to do, but it's in serious need of a refresh. The fact that there is no API to get at your data also is alarming.
There is an ability to access your data off the device using a USB cable. This is obviously a legacy thing. But, if you are someone who doesn't want to have their data in someone's cloud there is this option. I like the idea that my workout and health data is mine and doesn't have to go anywhere. With Apple, we just sorta have to trust them..
What is great is the flashlight ! Being able to tap a button twice at 4am before going to the bathroom is very helpful. You can do this on a AWU, but the two button tap thing is nice.. especially when you are half awake.
You will often hear that the Garmin is a Sports-watch with some smartwatch elements and the Apple Watch is a Smart-watch that acts like a Sports-watch. I think in terms of the physical aspect of the watch, including battery life, this is true. As for the software, I am not so certain. Apple's software is much, much better. UI and UX are better. It integrates quite well with the rest of the Apple ecosystem. Playing podcasts, music, switching apps while doing a workout, taking calls.. quick messaging. You can sorta do all this with Garmin, but it's kludgey.. Apple on the other hand doesn't have all the sports metrics that Garmin has, but I'd argue those metrics are a gimmick.. and I think the way apple is doing it will play out better in the long run.
This is probably an edge case, but we have a few cats that we let outside and they all have AirTags on them. Works quite well. With the Apple Watch, after my run, I could find where they are in the lane behind my house to bring them home.. Little things like that.. Being able to buy some groceries with my watch after my run (Garmin pay is pretty well non existent in Canada).. So while not directly related to running, these are things that are part of my run.
Garmin has always convinced people to buy new watches with new training scores.. But with Connect+ I think they have given up on that. I think the approach now will be to make Garmin watches a Flex item (like a Rolex) and then hope to make more recurring revenue with Connect+.. They may be ready to accept losing the low end and part of the middle tier to Apple. I mean, they already have. If we go by what people are using on Strava, Apple Watch dominates for shorter running distances and Garmin leads in longer distances. I would argue that runners who have been running for a while, started with Garmin and haven't stopped. Whereas new runners just use their Apple Watch.
The question then is, will this continue ? Will those new runners graduate to running longer and just keep their Apple Watches ? If so, Garmin is in trouble. This is why I think Garmin is leveraging their status as a "real sports watch" into a Flex item. A Rolex is cool, but whoa, look at that Garmin, you run marathons dude ?
I have the option to buy this Epix and I am tempted. The physical buttons and the battery life is quite nice.. But having to bring a phone with me on longer runs is rather annoying..
I think they can't remove existing "free" features, it won't be acceptable.
But the y will probably push more and more new things in the "+" version.
I remember some people complaining about AW that "force" people to buy a 7€ app ...
Workoutdoors, YouRace and other are cheap compared to Garmin subscription.
Sure they can. The only question is if they dare to do so. They can not have an interest in their users being on other platforms.
They also could charge other platforms for using APIs to sync or could limit their usage (as they already did some months ago).
that's the thing. Garmin is pretty closed off. If you're going to charge - then open your platform to other devices (which we know they won't do).
But we've also seen them do this with vehicle sat nav. Those units got more and more expensive right up to the point that the whole market evaporated when it all went on your phone. I think they saw that coming and escalated profits while they could. Maybe that is what Garmin is doing here. They see peak fitness watch coming.
To be honest, I don’t see an issue with having advanced paid features. The “free” Garmin Connect is full of niche features and obscure metrics. If people want more NASA “AI” features, why not make them pay? Apple is also selling iCloud+, Fitness+, and so on. But it’s not just for a watch. It’s just funny because one of the biggest arguments for Garmin lovers is that they don’t have to pay anything else than the watch.
No, absolutely ok to pay for good features. I do that for runalyze and am perfectly happy with.
I would not pay for Garmin Connect as this platform is compared to others mediocre to bad. There is a reason why Strava and TrainingPeaks are successful and Garmin Connect not so much.
They will bend to brezels and explain why it is good to pay for the additional features.
One thing is for sure: the basic (free) platform will be less usable with every release and the moment where you have to subscribe to the Connect+ platform to do reasonable things is getting closer. And Garmin will keep you inside their platform. A steady revenue stream is always better than uncertainty from hardware buyers. Just see the Fenix 8 sales where a huge lot of folks don't see a reason to upgrade from their Epix 2s and Fenix 7s.
Wouldn't be surprised if they even cut off the feature to be able to manually download your workouts via USB mounted file system in the future and only offer a very basic feature in Garmin Connect to download your stuff.
I‘ve heard always two arguments why garmin is soooo great: All features are for free. And the battery life is better.
As stated before: the betters life is not that better as advertised. Shockingly short. And now they even pay for features that are not working? 😂
For all the rest- their watches are ugly and still feature and usability wise like 1980s
As stated before: the betters life is not that better as advertised. Shockingly short. And now they even pay for features that are not working? 😂
For all the rest- their watches are ugly and still feature and usability wise like 1980s
As a multi year Garmin watch user and lover, I can firmly say that they are risking the entire thing with this move
Extremely disappointing potential canary in the coalmine
Extremely disappointing potential canary in the coalmine
The problem is even letting the camels nose inside the tent
Almost nobody has done anything but further lean into subscriptions once opening the door and getting a taste.
It's extremely worrying given that a HUGE advantage of Garmin in this space (beyond the obvious device diversity and battery life) has been the "all in one" nature of what's included with a device purchase.
Dividing features based upon tiers and subscriptions is absolutely toxic to business incentives.
Og
Might not be too bad in version 1, but with every great new feature coming up, they will put it behind the pay wall
This!
Might not be too bad in version 1, but with every great new feature coming up, they will put it behind the pay wall