The Car Thread ... !

[Huntn]

Beautiful Fiat you've got there, Hunt. I had no idea you had one of those, or I did and simply forgot. 🙁 Personally, if I were looking for a fun weekend car in that price range, I'd go with the new Miata hardtop. I'm not a fan of Miatas, but the new hardtop looks very nice.

RE Porsche: Get a CPO one. There's no point in buying one and getting instant depreciation. Early 991.1 Targas or the even more beautiful 997.1-.2 Targa have bottomed out in price. With the 996 Turbos climbing in price along with the standard 996 now, and I believe that generation's Boxster for some reason, I see no point in buying a brand new Porsche unless you want to option it out to your personal liking. Considering these cars aren't driven much to begin with, it isn't like buying a cheap Japanese car or a tri-German car sans warranty. Even without warranty, these Porsche's have reasonable repair prices. Missus is a bigger Porsche fan, having driven several and owning one in the past. We'll definitely be looking at a 991.1 or .2 Turbo/S in the future when the kids are older and I can get a code clearance to build a two car addition to our house. We've got a 'neighbor' a couple blocks up who managed to convince the city to let him build a massive 6 vehicle garage, in addition to a laborious land grading, building and tamping cost. Though that was in the early 80s. I doubt it would fly now.

If I ripped out all the cabinetry and storage shelves I had installed, I could fit three cars in the garage, but the storage is essential for tools and whatnot. There's never been a huge emphasis on garage space here, which is strange considering we were and still are a car enthusiast state. Except the Prius drivers, but no one cares about them. 🙂

Going back to the Fiat, is that original paint or did you have it repainted? What maintenance products do you use?

Truth in advertising, the Fiat shown is a picture I pulled off the net, however, my Fiat looks identical except for some rust on the bumpers, which I plan on exploring how to replace them. I'll take a picture and post it, just don't hold your breath. 😉 I found replacement bumpers at Mr Fiat.com. My paint looks as good as the picture. I purchased this Fiat in 1986 and we had it painted in the early 1990s at Maaco Auto Paint Shop for about $2000. They did a great job with an original gold Fiat color. It looks more like a green gold. I don't use much of any maintenance products on it. I should polish it, but we drive it infrequently. It's 35 years old and has 46k miles on it. The top was replaced a couple of years ago, and after we drove it to Texas, I let it sit for a year, and in the last year have spent about $3000 in maintenance on it, brakes, ignition, fuel line, replacing a variety of parts, which is all age related. Overall the car has performed well for me. Now that it's fixed we mostly drive it in the winter (Houston, Tx).

This car is truly unique and we get complemented all the time. I've checked prices and it runs about $10k that is if you can find someone who would buy it. 😉 Unfortunately it's reached an age were parts are harder to find. When the ignition switch and condenser needed replacing, they had to use another brand. Even brakes are difficult to locate. I'm debating buying a spare windshield just to have for the future , but don't know if there would be issues storing it, as in, would it become misshapen over time if not installed?

A 911 Targa is my dream car. Had a chance to buy a used one in 1986 for $20k and passed. 😵 Prices on these type cars has gotten ridiculous. Looked at a Vet the other day $99k. 🙄... right. Want to hear something funny? When I bought a 1975 Fiat Spider, they sold for $5000, the same price as a Vet. 🙂 At the time, a regular car cost about $3000, so Fiats were very expensive. I had stepped into a car dealer to see an X19, but was immediately drawn to the Spider. Over the next 7 years Fiat proceeded to price themselves out of the market as the price zoomed to $15k in 1980. Actually I think this 82 sold for over $20k. I believe 1985 was the last year they were imported.

1985 911 Carrera Targa looks pretty darn good but I like the 2017 model too. 🙂🙂

There is an appeal, but a car like this feels much heavier. Even the 2017 Spider felt heavy as compared to my nimble 82 Spider. And it would definitely have to be a convertible. 😀

[doublepost=1487342629][/doublepost]But then there is always:

 

[D.T.]

Truth in advertising, the Fiat shown is a picture I pulled off the net, however, my Fiat looks identical except for some rust on the bumpers, which I plan on exploring how to replace them. I'll take a picture and post it, just don't hold your breath. 😉 I found replacement bumpers at Mr Fiat.com. My paint looks as good as the picture. I purchased this Fiat in 1986 and we had it painted in the early 1990s at Maaco Auto Paint Shop for about $2000. They did a great job with an original gold Fiat color. It looks more like a green gold. I don't use much of any maintenance products on it. I should polish it, but we drive it infrequently. It's 35 years old and has 46k miles on it. The top was replaced a couple of years ago, and after we drove it to Texas, I let it sit for a year, and in the last year have spent about $3000 in maintenance on it, brakes, ignition, fuel line, replacing a variety of parts, which is all age related. Overall the car has performed well for me. Now that it's fixed we mostly drive it in the winter (Houston, Tx).

This car is truly unique and we get complemented all the time. I've checked prices and it runs about $10k that is if you can find someone who would buy it. 😉 Unfortunately it's reached an age were parts are harder to find. When the ignition switch and condenser needed replacing, they had to use another brand. Even brakes are difficult to locate. I'm debating buying a spare windshield just to have for the future , but don't know if there would be issues storing it, as in, would it become misshapen over time if not installed?

A 911 Targa is my dream car. Had a chance to buy a used one in 1986 for $20k and passed. 😵 Prices on these type cars has gotten ridiculous. Looked at a Vet the other day $99k. 🙄... right. Want to hear something funny? When I bought a 1975 Fiat Spider, they sold for $5000, the same price as a Vet. 🙂 At the time, a regular car cost about $3000, so Fiats were very expensive. I had stepped into a car dealer to see an X19, but was immediately drawn to the Spider. Over the next 7 years Fiat proceeded to price themselves out of the market as the price zoomed to $15k in 1980. Actually I think this 82 sold for over $20k. I believe 1985 was the last year they were imported.

Good post.

Yeah, there's not many light weight, reasonably low cost, engaging drivers cars, and when they are offered, they're a hard sell as the Miata dominates that segment. There are some way more costly options from Porsche that are "pure experience" type vehicles, but yeah, price. I had an S2000 which is a beautiful execution of the lightweight, roadster.

FWIW, you can get into a Corvette for more like low 60's, high 50s (a Vette pushing $100K is a Z06, and that's a whole different beast ...), but yeah, cars have gotten so content loaded, many of the lower cost options from years ago, have really escalated (though Corvettes were never "cheap").

That mostly-a-1961 Vette is beautiful (however, it should have body colored headlight bezels, those look to be from a 59 or 60 🙂)

 

[bunnspecial]

That's a beautiful Fiat, even though it's not British 🙂

In all honesty, I don't know where Pininafarina has gone the past few years. 30-50 years ago, they were turning out jaw-dropping designs like your Spider, countless Ferraris, and even cars near and dear to my heart like the MGB-GT.

Now they turn out designs like this

(yes, that is a Pininafarina design, although not manufactured by them).

In any case, I'm not plugged into the Italian sports car world, but I'm surprised that parts are getting hard to find for them. I guess I'm spoiled by how plentiful and cheap British parts are.

I also have to admit that the new Alfa Giulia is wooing me, although it's not realistically in the cards right now.

 

[0388631]

I was looking at some old E30s the other day. Specifically the 87-? E30 325is. The prices on those have skyrocketed. There was a period about 10 to 15 years ago, where aside from the M3 of the series era, you could get an E30 for under 4-5K. They were old at that point and not worth much. I believe the original M10 engine is bulletproof. It's very funny considering the bottom barrel of the E30 could be had for under $1,500 in alright shape and now it's worth a few times that.

Don't recall every driving one, but from what I do remember is that they're incredibly light and their engines can take a lot of abuse before they go kaput. Anyway, what I do remember from the 10-ish year run is that it was immensely popular with people, at least here. The lower end 318 was popular with women and junior executives. Think most of us guys then were into Mustangs and Pontiacs. I had a friend who had a Firebird I was immensely jealous of.

Edit: Seems the running joke of Daewoos has come back in full force. Again.

 

[Huntn]

Good post.

Yeah, there's not many light weight, reasonably low cost, engaging drivers cars, and when they are offered, they're a hard sell as the Miata dominates that segment. There are some way more costly options from Porsche that are "pure experience" type vehicles, but yeah, price. I had an S2000 which is a beautiful execution of the lightweight, roadster.

FWIW, you can get into a Corvette for more like low 60's, high 50s (a Vette pushing $100K is a Z06, and that's a whole different beast ...), but yeah, cars have gotten so content loaded, many of the lower cost options from years ago, have really escalated (though Corvettes were never "cheap").

That mostly-a-1961 Vette is beautiful (however, it should have body colored headlight bezels, those look to be from a 59 or 60 🙂)

Did the S2000 make a vroom noise? I like that, which typically I don't associate with Japanese brands. The new Spider had a barely perceptible sound.
[doublepost=1487347478][/doublepost]

That's a beautiful Fiat, even though it's not British 🙂

In all honesty, I don't know where Pininafarina has gone the past few years. 30-50 years ago, they were turning out jaw-dropping designs like your Spider, countless Ferraris, and even cars near and dear to my heart like the MGB-GT.

Now they turn out designs like this

View attachment 688992

(yes, that is a Pininafarina design, although not manufactured by them).

In any case, I'm not plugged into the Italian sports car world, but I'm surprised that parts are getting hard to find for them. I guess I'm spoiled by how plentiful and cheap British parts are.

I also have to admit that the new Alfa Giulia is wooing me, although it's not realistically in the cards right now.

That's kind of shocking for Pinnafarina. 😵 Maybe that's their economy design division. 🙂

 

[AustinIllini]

The Alfa Romeo 4C is one of the best cars on the road. A true driver's delight. Problem is, in your everyday commute, it's kind of useless and uncomfortable. That's why I would go with the Porsche first.

 

[quagmire]

The Alfa Romeo 4C is one of the best cars on the road. A true driver's delight. Problem is, in your everyday commute, it's kind of useless and uncomfortable. That's why I would go with the Porsche first.

And it will be spending its life at the dealership getting repaired because it is a FCA product.....

And it sucks because Alfa's are such gorgeous looking cars. I would love the new M3 competitor with that Ferrari V8 with two cylinders chopped off.

 

[bunnspecial]

Did the S2000 make a vroom noise? I like that, which typically I don't associate with Japanese brands. The new Spider had a barely perceptible sound.

There's a guy at work with an '00(I think) S2000 as his DD. He travels all over the state and I think is closing in on 300K on it(original clutch, BTW, although he told me he's budgeting for one in the next couple of months).

Granted I doubt he's running the original exhaust after that many miles, but it has a nice rumble without being overly loud. Fortunately, it doesn't sound like a weedeater like a lot of high performance Japanese engines 🙂 .

In my classic car circle, Weber is a dirty word. With that said, I love the sound that DCOEs add to an engine and the dual DCOEs on the Spider engines sound heavenly. Combine that with a good sports car exhaust and you have an amazing combination. It's unfortunate that my preferred sports car poison-MGs-generally run like crap with DCOEs-they're really too much carburetor and no one has spent the time or the money to get the jetting or emulsion tube correct on one. DGVs can run decent, but don't have that amazing DCOE sound.

I wish that manufacturers today would realize that not everyone who wants to hear a 4-cylinder exhaust note wants it to sound like a swarm of bumble bees trying to get out of a coffee can. The Italians and British got it right back in the day with a nice low frequency burble combined with a pleasant mid-range growl.

 

[Huntn]

There's a guy at work with an '00(I think) S2000 as his DD. He travels all over the state and I think is closing in on 300K on it(original clutch, BTW, although he told me he's budgeting for one in the next couple of months).

Granted I doubt he's running the original exhaust after that many miles, but it has a nice rumble without being overly loud. Fortunately, it doesn't sound like a weedeater like a lot of high performance Japanese engines 🙂 .

In my classic car circle, Weber is a dirty word. With that said, I love the sound that DCOEs add to an engine and the dual DCOEs on the Spider engines sound heavenly. Combine that with a good sports car exhaust and you have an amazing combination. It's unfortunate that my preferred sports car poison-MGs-generally run like crap with DCOEs-they're really too much carburetor and no one has spent the time or the money to get the jetting or emulsion tube correct on one. DGVs can run decent, but don't have that amazing DCOE sound.

I wish that manufacturers today would realize that not everyone who wants to hear a 4-cylinder exhaust note wants it to sound like a swarm of bumble bees trying to get out of a coffee can. The Italians and British got it right back in the day with a nice low frequency burble combined with a pleasant mid-range growl.

Exactly right on the bumble noise. 🙂 Referencing Japanese engines, that reminds me of when I drove a Kawasaki 500 2 stroke (1970 time frame). RRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrr-EEEEEEEEEEE. 🙂

 

[0388631]

I've never heard an S2000 at high RPMs outside of YouTube. The new Alfa sedan is interesting. FCA and all, I wonder if I'll see any on the streets here. The GS F, while not a huge competitor, failed and still fails to sell well compared to German rivals.

 

[AustinIllini]

I've never heard an S2000 at high RPMs outside of YouTube. The new Alfa sedan is interesting. FCA and all, I wonder if I'll see any on the streets here. The GS F, while not a huge competitor, failed and still fails to sell well compared to German rivals.

I've seen two out here in the high rent area west of Austin. Some of the roads get windy and fun. Looks fantastic in the wild.

 

[0388631]

I've seen two out here in the high rent area west of Austin. Some of the roads get windy and fun. Looks fantastic in the wild.

The?

 

[AustinIllini]

The?

Sorry. Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio

 

[0388631]

Sorry. Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio

I was curious because I figured you were talking about all three. 😛 I've yet to see one, but they're probably built upon ordering? There's 3 Alfa Romeo dealers in a 40 mile radius. I've seen a few 4Cs.

 

[D.T.]

Did the S2000 make a vroom noise? I like that, which typically I don't associate with Japanese brands. The new Spider had a barely perceptible sound.

It's generally not the brand so much as the high winding, small displacement inline 4s Honda uses in their sporty hatches, etc.

The S wasn't buzzy, it was surprisingly low frequency, though once it got wound up headed towards 8000RPM (9000 for earlier cars), it did get a little of that angry hornets sound 😀

I had a super nice, titanium exhaust on mine that made it sound totally different, more like a small displacement race car. The S uses a split rear exhaust (obviously from a single downpipe), so that gave it a little different character as well.

My current ride may be my favorite sound to date, the mix of the moderate displacement, 32v, high revving (relatively) and an aftermarket exhaust, gives it a really amazing sound (compared to previous cars with OHV V8s, inline turbo 6s, I4s, even a rotary 😀)

 

[0388631]

I sat in one once at a dealer when I was ordering a car. Very cool car. That's my only real experience with it. I've always wanted a car like that, but I know I'd feel a tool to drive one.

 

[D.T.]

I sat in one once at a dealer when I was ordering a car. Very cool car. That's my only real experience with it. I've always wanted a car like that, but I know I'd feel a tool to drive one.

Nah, drive what you want - and to be honest, while they are popular with "the kids", around here, the ones I see pretty regularly are driven by older gents.

Of course, there are some horribly riced out examples, but they look good stock, or with just a small bit of suspension work and a set of PROPER fitting aftermarket wheels.

If I may 🙂

[doublepost=1487371554][/doublepost]Side note: this was a super cool accessory (just saw this in the album ...), these were mats from the Japanese market (offered in proper drive-side, but not normally imported to the US).

The S2000 has this massive horizontal cross brace for chassis reinforcement and it crosses under the front carpet (looks like a square rail just in front of the seats), so mats aren't designed to cover it, so the carpet covering it gets dirty. These were two-piece mats that came with a set of mounting brackets you placed under the carpet and had a shaped section that covered the rail.

Also shows my favorite colored interior 😀

 

[Huntn]

Nah, drive what you want - and to be honest, while they are popular with "the kids", around here, the ones I see pretty regularly are driven by older gents.

Of course, there are some horribly riced out examples, but they look good stock, or with just a small bit of suspension work and a set of PROPER fitting aftermarket wheels.

If I may 🙂


View attachment 689067
[doublepost=1487371554][/doublepost]Side note: this was a super cool accessory (just saw this in the album ...), these were mats from the Japanese market (offered in proper drive-side, but not normally imported to the US).

The S2000 has this massive horizontal cross brace for chassis reinforcement and it crosses under the front carpet (looks like a square rail just in front of the seats), so mats aren't designed to cover it, so the carpet covering it gets dirty. These were two-piece mats that came with a set of mounting brackets you placed under the carpet and had a shaped section that covered the rail.

Also shows my favorite colored interior 😀

View attachment 689070

Is the S2000 still offered? I guess I could look it up. 😉

 

[bunnspecial]

Is the S2000 still offered? I guess I could look it up. 😉

Not for a couple of years. There are persistent rumors of it coming back, but I don't recall seeing anything concrete.

 

[AustinIllini]

Not for a couple of years. There are persistent rumors of it coming back, but I don't recall seeing anything concrete.

There is a lot of noise, but rumors suggest something crazy like 2020 if ever. Honda is run by accountants. To their credit, they might make the most exciting affordable cars.

 

[SactoGuy18]

If I had no money worries, here are the two automobiles I would consider:

Mercedes-Benz GLC 300 4Matic:

Porsche 718 Cayman S:

 

[D.T.]

Is the S2000 still offered? I guess I could look it up. 😉

Not for a couple of years. There are persistent rumors of it coming back, but I don't recall seeing anything concrete.

Yeah, production for the US market ended in 2009 (started in 1999), the 99-03 cars are coded as an AP1, the 04-09 are AP2, there was a slight displacement bump for slightly improved bottom end, a few aesthetic tweaks, but the car stayed about the same (see below). It was only a convertible, only a 6-speed manual (one of the best shifters ever created), just a few options (that were more like accessories), some colors choices.

Of course, it also powered the correct wheels 😀

So the one major trim variant was the CR offered in 08-09 (Club Racer), it removed the soft top, came standard with the optional hardtop, a few aero tweaks, very limited production. Speaking of: there were only about 66K of these cars imported, so while they're not exotic levels of rare, that's still a very low production number, so you get a good bit of exclusivity with ownership (if that appeals to you).

It's very minimal, a little noisy, but as a weekend driver, it's hard to beat for the price, even in the slightly inflated used market.

From Wikipedia:

The S2000 was on Car and Driver's 10Best list for 2000,[26] 2001,[27] 2002[28] and 2004.[29]
The S2000 was the highest-ranked model in the J. D. Power and Associates Vehicle Dependability Study "Premium Sports Car" class for 2004,[30] 2006,[31] and 2008[32] and consistently held one of the top three positions.
The S2000 was ranked number #1 in the BBC Top Gear survey in 2003, 2005, and 2006.
The S2000 was ranked as "Best Affordable Sports Car" by U.S. News & World Report in 2008[33] and 2009[34]
The S2000 was on Edmunds Consumers' Most Wanted Vehicles list for 2004,[35] 2005[36] and 2007.[37]
The S2000 was one of Jalopnik's Best 10 Cars Of The Decade.[38]
The S2000 was one of Road & Track's Best All-Around Sports Cars.[39]

[doublepost=1487429537][/doublepost]

There is a lot of noise, but rumors suggest something crazy like 2020 if ever. Honda is run by accountants. To their credit, they might make the most exciting affordable cars.

Yep, and I'm not even sure what market space they'd want to enter. They could sustain the previous car, it was $10K more than a [entry level] Miata, and even though it was better, faster, when you get into the mid-30s (as they were new during production), you're starting to approach faster domestic options (and let's be honest, HP sells cars), and as a small, two-seater, convertible only, that occupies "weekend use", that's an economic demographic that's probably more interested in a Z3/Z4 or even a Boxster or something like an Audi TT.

There was talk of some kind of "baby NSX", but if that's implying electric, a $60K+ price point, that's _not_ the successor to the S2K (even if it's called an S3000 or whatever).

 

[AustinIllini]

There was talk of some kind of "baby NSX", but if that's implying electric, a $60K+ price point, that's _not_ the successor to the S2K (even if it's called an S3000 or whatever).

That's my concern but if they're going to make a 60K price point car and they don't put an "A" badge on the front, Honda had best close up Acura.

 

[kryten42]

Just got an Infiniti QX30 Premium w/Nav for the girlfriend's mom. Got it on lease at around $4k under invoice with $0 capital reduction and just fees and taxes up front on the lease (ME needs to pay all sales tax up front for lease costs). She seemed happy, she is paying quite a bit less for this than her old 2014 Nissan Rogue SV! Seemed to ride quite nicely, even if it is a little bit on the smaller side. Nice interior for sure for a sub-compact crossover, and felt fairly well planted on the road (18" rims helped I am sure). Only thing missing are the driver aids on this one, would have pushed the lease up at least $50/month for those and she wasn't that bothered as never had a car with them anyway. Seems can add the push button start by buying the Mercedes button for $30 off eBay 😀

 

[takao]

Isn't Peugeot majority owned by the French government?

afaik it's only 15% or so but the influence of the state is quite big. That's why buying Opel will be quite controversal: Opel has always has quickly attracted german politics in the past so i doubt it will be different now. And with the french and german being fickly about jobs this year it could very likely spell bad news for the manufacturing lines in other countries.
So it very well mean that a factory in UK or Spain get axed despite being more efficent than the old Opel plant in Germany.

Also GM's company structure raises a few question: the most efficent opel factory (in poland) actually is directly attached to GM in Europe and thus would not be part of a deal involving opel.
As is the development center in Rüsselsheim (aka the former Opel development complex) is since a decade or so
Which makes future Buick development safe but buying Opel means you only end up with the brand, old factory plants, zero extra development capabilities technology or know-how, and a oversized dealership network in europe.

On the plus side Opel brand seems like a perfect match for electric vehicles. After all they have a lightning in their logo since multiple decades. That GM couldn't capitalize on that was beyond silly.

Perhaps Peugeot is planning to position Opel as a such an electric brand. Or perhaps somewhere else in their spectrum. Their efforts to position the new DS line as a seperate brand wasn't succesfull. In the 60/70ties Opel actually was the leader in he german upper segment market.

Perhaps their tiering it could actually make sense:
Peugeot: Small - compact cars
Citroen: compact-middle sized more extravagant cars
DS: premium version of small - middle sized cars
Opel: electrical vehicles or upper segment market ?

the european car buyer market simply refuses to buy the french big saloons anymore. Perhaps taking Opel and turning it into their saloon car brand might work.