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The Compass App

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ruinfx said:
the original statement was "A compass is pretty much a necessity for any turn-by-turn navigation applications." its not.

if you want to stand outside and spin in circles and watch the map rotate, thats up to you.
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LethalWolfe said:
But the compass isn't needed. It could be a nice addition, but it isn't a required part of a functioning GPS unit. If I'm lost at Point A and I want to get to Point B the best route between Point A and Point B doesn't change depending on the cardinal direction I'm facing. I mean, if I'm driving from San Francisco to Los Angeles and I get lost in central California my GPS is still going to tell me to go South regardless of whether or not I'm facing NSEW at the time I ask my GPS for directions. If I want to get directions to the nearest Wal-Greens the iPhone would tell me to go one block North and one block West of my current position. None of that changes depending on what direction I'm facing when I ask for directions.


Lethal
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You're missing the point. You said yourself - "it will tell me to go south". Ok. Now, which direction is south? You cannot get a turn-by-turn "turn left and follow the whatever" command without it knowing which way you are facing (assuming you are stationary and have just entered your route).

You can start driving in a random direction and the the GPS will correct you. But, it doesn't know a thing until you are moving. Turn-by-turn commands don't mean only when moving.

Ok. Yes. The GPS will lay out a path for you. A compass is not needed for that. It's not needed when you are moving. Now here's the situation: You're standing still. All the buildings look alike. You can't read the street signs. It's cloudy, so you can't see the sun. Which direction do you start walking? I don't know about you, but I don't want to walk half a block and find out I was going the wrong direction (GPS will need you to move a short distance, depending on how fast you are moving, to calculate a heading).

I think that about covers the turn-by-turn topic.

As for the iPhone needing a compass app? Again, why not, if the hardware is there? I don't think an outdoorsman would rely solely on the iPhone's compass (like, they would have a mechanical one, too), but wouldn't mind the utility.
 
I had a Blackberry Curve a few years ago with a turn by turn Sat Nav application installed. It did a very good job of doing turn by turn navigation and I'm pretty sure the Curve didn't have a compass built in.

I'm also pretty sure that the GPS capability of the device was pretty basic and certainly no better than the iPhone 3G.

The direction you are heading can be determined by tracking your movements via the GPS. This is how the Curve Sat Nav worked. You needed to move a little bit before it figured out which direction you were heading.

You can do good turn by turn Sat Nav without a compass. A compass could be used to improve the experience though.
 
You don't have to be an outdoorsman to benefit from the compass. I've lost count of how many times I've exited a NYC subway and not been sure which way to turn, especially when I first moved last year. For those unfamiliar, NYC avenues are LONG and it's impossible to see far enough ahead to tell the street sign. It's a PITA to realize you were heading toward 7th Avenue (starting from 6th) when you wanted 5th, so I'd have to ask someone to confirm. From what I understand the magnetomer would eliminate that issue. It'd also help in places like Greenwich Village that aren't grids and a bit more confusing to navigate. Of course I can follow the blue dot on Google Maps but you still end up wasting time if you were heading the wrong way.

Unfortunately I won't be able to upgrade to the 3GS atm but I'd definitely love this feature.
 
davidChief said:
I had a Blackberry Curve a few years ago with a turn by turn Sat Nav application installed. It did a very good job of doing turn by turn navigation and I'm pretty sure the Curve didn't have a compass built in.

I'm also pretty sure that the GPS capability of the device was pretty basic and certainly no better than the iPhone 3G.

The direction you are heading can be determined by tracking your movements via the GPS. This is how the Curve Sat Nav worked. You needed to move a little bit before it figured out which direction you were heading.

You can do good turn by turn Sat Nav without a compass. A compass could be used to improve the experience though.
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We know. It works better with a compass. Compasses cost very little and take up almost no space. That's why I consider them pretty much a necessity. As in, there's no reason to leave a compass out now.

Yes, it is possible to figure out which direction you're going based on movement. But map rotation and direction tracking works much better with a compass.
 
The General said:
Magnetometers cost like 3 cents and they provide for better direction tracking and auto map rotation. There's no reason NOT to have a compass in a turn-by-turn navigation device.
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i agree.

That's why I said they are "pretty much" a necessity. They cost very little and improve the user experience. There was nothing "silly" about my statement.
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i agree it improves the user experience and is nice to have. when you use the word "necessity" you kind of give the impression that its, well, necessary. its not necessary, and there are plenty of gps units that provide turn-by-turn navigation without the assistance of a compass.

In no way was I saying "turn-by-turn should be 3G S only" or anything close to that.
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and thats why i never said you said that. the iphone 3g should be able to provide turn-by-turn directions even though it doesnt have a compass. doesnt that right there tell you a compass is not a necessity?
 
ruinfx said:
i agree.

i agree it improves the user experience and is nice to have. when you use the word "necessity" you kind of give the impression that its, well, necessary. its not necessary, and there are plenty of gps units that provide turn-by-turn navigation without the assistance of a compass.

and thats why i never said you said that. the iphone 3g should be able to provide turn-by-turn directions even though it doesnt have a compass. doesnt that right there tell you a compass is not a necessity?
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awjeezp.jpg


Is this over yet?
 
gr8tfly said:
You're missing the point. You said yourself - "it will tell me to go south". Ok. Now, which direction is south? You cannot get a turn-by-turn "turn left and follow the whatever" command without it knowing which way you are facing (assuming you are stationary and have just entered your route).
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I see what you are saying now. It just never occurred to me though that so many people, aside from maybe people who've been adducted and subsequently dumbed off somewhere, could become so lost so easily w/o any point of reference or idea of where they are that they'd need a compass to tell them which direction they need to face to begin their journey to their destination.


Lethal
 
Me and the wife are avid garage sale'ers. Every Saturday we take off at 6am. We take turns driving and navigating. Let me tell you, the magnetometer and map auto rotate are a necessity when she's doing the navigating.
 
LethalWolfe said:
I see what you are saying now. It just never occurred to me though that so many people, aside from maybe people who've been adducted and subsequently dumbed off somewhere, could become so lost so easily w/o any point of reference or idea of where they are that they'd need a compass to tell them which direction they need to face to begin their journey to their destination.


Lethal
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(Where's that image The General used?)

What if they stopped along the way? Believe it or not, humans can get disoriented in almost any surrounding including: cities, country, desert, flat farmland, mountains that all look alike (yes, even from paved road), maritime and aviation environments - I think that covers, like, everywhere... The situation you describe is not hypothetical - it happens all the time (well not the abducted and dumped part).

I love forums :eek: 3am and all's well... :D
 
The magnetometer is not only purpose for a compass,
developers can make full use of that to develop games or apps which uses it
there were several demonstrations of possible apps with magnetometers around in this site but too lazy to look for it teehee :p.

i'm sure this will turn out to be a great IPhone feature next few months and people with IPhone 3g will not be able to 'play' with it :D

and atleast u can tell ppl that u know ur sense of directions, although they dont really care, but just make use of that to boast to IPhone 3G owners :D
 
lol

see previous 3 pages of circluar arguments.

oooh I can't resist:

My phone has tomtom on it now but doesn't have a compass. It still works! When you move (even walking) it can work out your direction. Therefore suitable for 3G

3GS with compass means it'll know which way you're facing without having to move. e.g. If you were parked and had no idea even which way to start driving then the compass will help - otherwise (and what I do now) I start driving then it tells me what to do - a U turn or keep going!
 
I live in San Diego. We have a lot of parallel parking and one-way streets downtown. My Garmin does not have a built-in compass, and it gives decent directions. However, there's a problem when I'm driving one direction on a street then parallel park. Because I back up several feet into my spot and only pull forward a couple of feet to center myself, the GPS still thinks I'm going the opposite direction from what I really am.

When I leave that spot my GPS calculates my route based on the wrong heading (my backing direction). If I'm lucky, it will recalculate my route shortly after I start driving, sometimes it just says make the next u-turn. Either way, I have an inconvenient route and "worse" experience because it didn't know which way I was really facing.

I make house calls for work and therefore drive all day - I experience the above situation daily and would be happier with a GPS with a compass.

My point, a compass isn't required for turn-by-turn; but it can definitely improve the experience.
 
A good use for the Compass and mapping is Geocaching. It uses GPS, but you are usually on foot and when you get close it take some time and a lot of walking around in circles to figure out which direction it is based on where you are currently headed.

How about Google street view and maps where you turn and as you turn the map or street view adjusts automatically.
 
jamesarm97 said:
A good use for the Compass and mapping is Geocaching. It uses GPS, but you are usually on foot and when you get close it take some time and a lot of walking around in circles to figure out which direction it is based on where you are currently headed.

How about Google street view and maps where you turn and as you turn the map or street view adjusts automatically.
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Agreed. I'm really looking forward to the AccuTerra app coming out soon.

And besides, the compass app looks cool. What's wrong with a little eye candy?
 
I agree that the actual compass app itself is pointless for most people, there are a lot of people that will find some good use for it. however the magnetometer is a very welcome addition to the phone for things outside of the compass app and mapping software. It will allow for other apps and even games to know exactly where in space and what orientation the iPhone is. So instead of games just sensing when the iPhone is vertical or horizontal, they can sense what direction it's facing. For example, you could make an open world 3d game and to see different things you can physically pick up the phone and point it different directions and have the screen render those different directions in real time, so essentially you'd be seeing what your character in the game is looking at.

There are tons of different uses for this type of technology outside of the compass app itself, but yeah, I think the compass app itself is a little pointless or at least it's pointless to put it outside of the map app.
 
Type121 said:
Most in-car nav systems not only include a compass but also have wheel speed sensors. It not only helps counteract position error while stopped (your calculated position tends to wander a bit due to atmospheric conditions), but it also helps in situations when you're dealing with an obstructed view of the sky, like in a tunnel, under heavy tree cover and in urban areas.

My wife's car continues to reasonably correctly plot its location even in parking garages where there is no GPS signal at all.
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MOST, in car GPS are removable and therefore have no such features. MOST are tomtoms, which don't have any kind of compass. Speed is simply calculated by distance over time and direction by which way you are moving, NOT which way you are facing. Seriously, get you tomtom out of the car, spin around, the map wont move. It will however face the correct way if you start to move. You can even try and trick it by facing the device away from you.

Im sure SOME but VERY FEW GPS devices have a compass and EVEN LESS have speed sensors! Just not required. Why would you spend money on speed sensors connected to wheels when putting a simple speed calculation in the software is free. Not to mention that GPS speed is actually up to 10% more accurate than a cars speedometer (due to differening wheel sizes and trye pressures on the same car models, not to mention built in tollerences)

On the route calculation, i know mine has no compass, but it also calculates routes when there is no signal. It does a best guess on you last location. It will also show you moving through tunnels, its simply guessing based on your route, last speed and last direction. Just clever software!

Back on topic,

I can see some good apps coming in the future, the built in app is pretty usless for me, though it is cool!
 
I think the magnometer is a great addition. It should allow accuracy on a par with wii motion plus, and will make the iphone a great platform for developing augmented reality apps and games. R.E gps/compass combo, essential no , useful yes, especially if you are a pedestrian
 
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