The dark side of iBooks 2 / Textbooks

[houdinize]

What was wrong with the bag comment? Seriously though I mean it. When I was a kid in school I carried my bag of books. In the conference Phil Schiller mentioned this as a negative thing. It does a child good.

Through how many feet of snow?

On a serious note though. I disagree that something like a documentary isn't real learning or doesn't involve critical thinking. The problem with many textbooks is that they lack a good way of presenting complex ideas. Visual or interactive elements are a better and more engaging way of doing this, I don't think lazy way. We are experiencing our world in a more interactive way, to disregard this or try to push kids to a different way of learning will only hurt them, not make them more "disciplined." As a teacher and an art teacher I think all students can benefit from more varied approaches to learning and absorbing information. To hold on to ways of doing things simply because that's the way they've been done only shows how out of touch with the young learners we are trying to serve.

 

[fertilized-egg]

Not that all your concerns are unfounded but I am sure it's what happens every time a new medium appears

To me, almost always, new learning methods seem to toward more dynamic and visually friendly medium. With the invention of computers we now also have instant interactivity in our learning tools as well. All these certainly have their "dark side" just as iBooks do, but I don't think that's enough of a downside to fear them.

Heck I am pretty sure at some point in the human history someone claimed having written text - books - will dumb down humans by eliminating the need to remember things. Similarly, someone probably claimed having illustrations in text books will lessen kids' intelligence by letting them free of reading text. Ditto for showing documentaries like NOVA in class.

 

[Night Spring]

Heck I am pretty sure at some point in the human history someone claimed having written text - books - will dumb down humans by eliminating the need to remember things.

Yes, someone did. I forget which dialogue it is, but in one of the dialogues of Socrates, written by Pluto, Socrates says that the written text is inferior as a teaching medium because if you have questions, it doesn't answer you.

 

[Hephaestus]

Some very interesting comments here and some very solid counter points. I guess I was perhaps a little extreme with my initial post. It's true that the layout of each book could be vastly different from another and this is after all a tool that can be utilised positively or negatively. I get what you guys are saying and I'm drifting into a more moderate stance on this

I still think though that this shouldn't be utilised for young children. Secondary School/University yes, but I'm still not sure about kids.

 

[chrono1081]

Apples got it right. Textbooks are a bad way to learn. The big thing is they are not interactive.

Most people learn more by doing, not reading. Much more informational value can be gleaned when the student is interacting with the subject they are learning.

Imagine in math class where instead of looking at still pictures of drawings of math equations you have interactive sliders where you can change values and instantly see a change in the result.

Physics is another example. If you are learning about friction for example and interactive example on an iPad is vastly superior to images in a book.

Sorry but textbooks needed to go long ago. I'm glad Apple is starting the push.

 

[ctucci]

Some very interesting comments here and some very solid counter points. I guess I was perhaps a little extreme with my initial post. It's true that the layout of each book could be vastly different from another and this is after all a tool that can be utilised positively or negatively. I get what you guys are saying and I'm drifting into a more moderate stance on this

I still think though that this shouldn't be utilised for young children. Secondary School/University yes, but I'm still not sure about kids.

Just blue-skying here from me...

What if ITunes U really gets populated with a bunch of good primary / secondary materials. I mean, enough to base a real k-12 curriculum on... Many smaller, less well off countries have at least some 3g 4g but updated quality textbooks can be hard to find much less pay for en masse.

So, what if a benefactor simply loaded a few extra iPads with access to this theoretical iTunes U/iBooks k-12, sent them a few used 37 or 42in LCDs, and a some dvi adapters for the iPads.

I wonder if you could teach a class of 20-30 eager learners in a small budget constrained village this way.

And...I wonder if this isn't a way to get perhaps better quality materials past at least some the possible cultural roadblocks (they can't change the textbooks, for instance).

I wonder if something like that was a thread running through this rollout...

 

[Hephaestus]

Imagine in math class where instead of looking at still pictures of drawings of math equations you have interactive sliders where you can change values and instantly see a change in the result.

You see this is where I disagree. Being able to adjust a slider and instantly see the result isn't what I call learning.

When you read a maths book you are presented with examples. You have to then process what is happening and then figure out for yourself what will happen when the values change. Experimentation and thought is what enables one to do this. Interacting with your teacher and what not is what is needed. Sliding a slider isn't my idea of grasping maths, since you yourself aren't doing anything.

 

[quasinormal]

I still think though that this shouldn't be utilised for young children. Secondary School/University yes, but I'm still not sure about kids.

This I completely agree with. I quite like the Rudoph Steiner philosophy of only introducing technology when the child is considerably older, instead focusing on traditional and oral methods of creativity and learning.

This link is about TV, but it really applies to all electronic media.

http://www.openwaldorf.com/media.html

Waldorf methodology has had a generally positive reception by educationalists:
Professor Robert Peterkin considers Waldorf education a healing education whose underlying principles are appropriate for educating all children.[93]
Thomas W. Nielsen of the University of Canberra considers the imaginative teaching approaches used in Waldorf education (drama, exploration, storytelling, routine, arts, discussion and empathy) to be effective stimulators of spiritual-aesthetic, intellectual and physical development and recommends these to mainstream educators.[94]
Deborah Meier, principal of Mission Hill School and MacArthur grant recipient: "The adults I know who have come out of Waldorf schools are extraordinary people. That education leaves a strong mark of thoroughness, carefulness, and thoughtfulness."[95]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldorf_education

 

[Night Spring]

You see this is where I disagree. Being able to adjust a slider and instantly see the result isn't what I call learning.

I agree that just sliding a slider isn't learning, but what if you had one of those train A and B starts out from Cities X and Y, traveling at such-and-such a speed, where will they meet? kind of problem, and you could figure out the answers, then plug it in, and watch the trains start moving toward each other on screen. If you had typed in the correct answer, the trains will meet at the correct point, if not, they'd miss. And then you have to try again.

Coming up with useful interactive excersises will take some thought (I'm not sure how useful my train example is, it's just the first thing that came to mind), but I do think given enough time and resources, somebody will come up with some nice interactive supplements for this kind of thing.

 

[Abazigal]

You see this is where I disagree. Being able to adjust a slider and instantly see the result isn't what I call learning.

When you read a maths book you are presented with examples. You have to then process what is happening and then figure out for yourself what will happen when the values change. Experimentation and thought is what enables one to do this. Interacting with your teacher and what not is what is needed. Sliding a slider isn't my idea of grasping maths, since you yourself aren't doing anything.

This can be done in the worksheets or workbooks which the teacher assigns as homework as a means of consolidating their learning. What I see the interactive examples as doing is giving the student a clear visual of how the procedure is supposed to be carried out.

It is said that a picture is often worth a thousand words. I can see a single video clip demonstrating a particularly complex procedure to be much more informative than a long list of bulleted instructions. Instead of trying to verbalise how to measure an angle between 2 lines using a protractor, simply show a short clip modeling how best to align the protractor and take the reading.

This happened in a class I was teaching (elementary kids). I was trying to teach them how to upload slides to slideshare to showcase on their blog. From past experience, I knew that if I simply demo'ed to them once, only a handful of the smarter kids would grasp the concept. The rest would be lost, and I will likely have to repeat the instructions to the rest of them several times.

So what I did was to create a set of slides showing the process step-by-step, and upload it. Any pupils who didn't catch it the first time and came to ask me, I would simply redirect them to my blog, get them to watch the slides again and figure it out themselves. And I thought it worked fairly well.

What this has the potential of doing, IMO, is help make the children self-directed learners. In the past, teachers were the sole authority of information for the children. Now, I see teachers more as facilitators.

 

[chrono1081]

You see this is where I disagree. Being able to adjust a slider and instantly see the result isn't what I call learning.

When you read a maths book you are presented with examples. You have to then process what is happening and then figure out for yourself what will happen when the values change. Experimentation and thought is what enables one to do this. Interacting with your teacher and what not is what is needed. Sliding a slider isn't my idea of grasping maths, since you yourself aren't doing anything.

You may disagree, but most people do not.

Interactivity allows a student to see the relation of values to the output. This is very useful in physics where you can learn hands on. A textbook can't do this. Same goes for math. Its no secret that most math teachers suck, which is why many students are bad at math. A good math program can teach the "why" behind the problem, not just how to solve the problem.

Not to mention textbooks are often severely outdated in public schools. We had books sometimes 10 years old.

 

[Chundles]

My Uni textbooks were A$200+ and did a great job holding my door open.

We learnt by doing, by running experiments, by taking notes from lectures, the textbooks were useless wastes of money. If they can bring a level of interactivity and engagement that was otherwise lacking it can only be a good thing.

 

[blipmusic]

You see this is where I disagree. Being able to adjust a slider and instantly see the result isn't what I call learning.

I find that a tad ignorant, to be honest. You need to realize that school subjects and different research fields are very different in regards to what kind of learing material makes the most sense.

My own field, linguistics, is perhaps less of a showcase but things could evolve there as well. I also don't see the logic in why we should expect learners to have answers given to them just because interactivity is part of the core learning material...?

So, if you have never, ever seen or heard about mitosis, an interactive image/animation coupled with text seems like a great way to have it explained to you. The actual text hasn't gone missing either.

What this also does is to give the learner two (or more) stimuli to map the concept to: the explaining text together with the image/animation. The more stimuli you get to associate with a concept, the easier it will be to understand and remember for a "normal" brain.

Take presentations as an example. Far too often, and this is from my own experience, the teacher just puts *all* of the text up on the slides. That is, the slides simply state, sometimes word for word, what he/she is saying.

What slides should, optimally, do is to work as a second stimuli - by using keywords or images that visualize what is being explained. Another problem is that many put up the content of the current topic all at once, instead of displaying every point/keyword when it *makes the most sense* (for example when it is mentioned by the teacher).

Animations and interactive images accompanied by text, text that is just as in any textbook, does most of this. You seem to focus a tad too much on video and animations. Again, it's used to supplement the actual text - the text is still there.

 

[z28black98]

I disagree with the OP. Our would is always changing and evolving. What worked 10+yrs ago may not work or fit in todays world. Kids are maturing and understanding at a much faster rate then they did years ago.

Everyone has their own style of learning, I am a more visual person as I suspect most people are. Whats wrong with not having to carry around a 20+ lb backpack? Does that make my child less of a man or hinder their ability to learn or grasp something? absolutely not.

The business traveler who doesnt lug his laptop, charger, air card and bag around across the country but rather brings his iphone and ipad to conduct presentations and business meetings, does that make him less productive?

Im not an apple fanboy, but I think they have "stumbled" across something brilliant. It might not totally replace textbooks anytime soon, but I wouldnt be surprised if it happens especially in the fields of science and math. Times are changing and you better be open to change otherwise you will get left behind.

 

[bocomo]

there is also kno.com

 

[Confuzzzed]

This is a great thread. Albeit populated by some long posts. But it's a serious matter so ideas need be developed fully and explained in detail. I get that. Although I don't agree on every point, my personal stance is much more closely aligned to that of the OP than some of his detractors. But please, lets all exhibit some respect to each other and allow people not to share our own views. No need to get all Orwellian about life. Live and let live.

 

[Hephaestus]

I find that a tad ignorant, to be honest. You need to realize that school subjects and different research fields are very different in regards to what kind of learing material makes the most sense.

How is it ignorant? I was referring to the maths example he gave. Of course I understand different subjects require different methods. You just plucked out my statement and removed the context.. that is what is ignorant.

We can agree to disagree but there is simply no way I can accept that sliding a slider and instantly seeing the result is learning maths. The individual is watching the iPad do the work for them, there is no thought involved.

This is where I agree with the other people who had solid counterpoints such as the implementation depends on the book. For example, if this option was presented after the student attempted his own calculation and was used for checking an answer, then it would be alright.

But there will undoubtedly be cases where the suggested case applies immediately, which doesn't encourage a key understanding.

----------

This is a great thread. Albeit populated by some long posts. But it's a serious matter so ideas need be developed fully and explained in detail. I get that. Although I don't agree on every point, my personal stance is much more closely aligned to that of the OP than some of his detractors. But please, lets all exhibit some respect to each other and allow people not to share our own views. No need to get all Orwellian about life. Live and let live.

Thanks Confuzzzed. Some people get a little tetchy too easily..

 

[blipmusic]

How is it ignorant? I was referring to the maths example he gave. Of course I understand different subjects require different methods. You just plucked out my statement and removed the context.. that is what is ignorant.

And yet you almost completely fail to address the fact that the explaining text is still there and you disregard most of what I wrote in that post. There is no set structure for how these books should be put together. As I see it, what Apple presented was basically ideas to get the ball rolling.

I don't completely disagree with you as I have a slight fear that this incentive might turn into "my text book looks cooler than yours (but isn't necessarily better)". Neither do I personally like to stare at screens for too long (but I sometimes have to). Also, I see the "micro stress" every day when commuting and how people seem to *need* to fiddle with something for a 5-10 min bus ride, which I find problematic (if that is what you're getting at when discussing short attention spans etc).

But you seem to be missing the fact that this is about learning not testing in most of your posts.

I don't think this is the holy grail of learning at all. We all learn in different ways, but some of this might actually help people to learn. And I mean learn, not recite. How is that a bad thing?

The individual is watching the iPad do the work for them, there is no thought involved.

If this suppposed interactive text book misses any other means of learning input, such as texts and problems to solve, it's not the means that is the issue here, it's that exact interactive text book that is horribly put together and shouldn't have been used in the first place.

Technology like this can always be used in the most superficial and meaningless of ways, but that doesn't mean it will or that we should therefore fear it. If we did you and I would probably be banging rocks together in morse code when communicating over small distances. Besides shouting, of course, but the human being has always excelled there.

Anyway, let's say we have that slider for basic functions -> curves. What hinders the tutor/author to present more complex problems to solve by yourself later on by using only that previous knowledge as it's currently done?

You consistently focus on one "problem" but fail to acknowledge that this is complementary and only one part of the learning process, together with the text and other means.

For example, if this option was presented after the student attempted his own calculation and was used for checking an answer, then it would be alright.

Again, this is about learning, which happens before testing. A problem can always be constructed in ways that tests whether the learner actually understood or not and that he/she can in fact apply that knowledge - apperception, if you will. If that doesn't happen, the tutor is at fault, not the individual means.

I'll bail out of this thread now, so we'll have to agree to disagree as you suggested.

EDIT: Anyway, thanks for a good thread even if I might have come through as bullheaded.

 

[blipmusic]

dp, sorry

 

[fidelityrevo]

Ebooks in Schools a Boondoggle

Apple and every other tablet manufacturer wants schools to use their platform as a standard. Why is it then that in Silicon Valley, the schools serving the technorati don't have computers in the lower grades? The answer is that the schools teach basic skills. I think it is ludicrous to get children roped into $500 tablets at such an early age.

I think tablets are interesting, but frankly, after having one for four months I'm disappointed. They are too fragile, too heavy and too little capacity. You can't write anything on them except phrases.

They are built for media consumption. They might be an aid to learning, such as when you are reading a history book or something, but I think they are limited because they aren't a full blown computer. If you want literature searches you need a lap top.

Further what schools need to do is teach critical thinking. The tablet and laptop in school crazes are hype to create market for Dell, Apple etc, not to help the children.

 

[macbookman83]

I totally understand the OP however I will say that times are changing.

Computers and digital information have become the norm in today's education.

Take a quick look at what happened when Wiki was down for one day last week.

TEACHERS and STUDENTS felt out of the loop. I forsee this becomming the norm and the future as tablets and electronic mediums become more inexpensive.


My main concern would be for children under 12-13 (7th and 8th grade).

 

[rei101]

I am totally agreed

Is like "texting", now everybody is texting and barely having a real relationship, specially girls that like to have more control.

Technology is like that, it resolves one problem but creates another. For example, cars were a solution in the early days. Today the average speed of a vehicle is just like a regular horse 100 years ago but now we have the pollution and the noise.

Books were great but now we do not have forests.

iPads will reduce the attention of the kids, to learn something is better if you imagine it in your head, that is why "the book is always better than the movie".

Lest see but I believe is right. The iPad should be an option but not a solution.

Still, schools are not teaching the only two things we actually need in life: How money works and actual sexual education and relationships.

 

[bniu]

Schiller mentioned in the Keynote that carrying textbooks around in a bag is a chore! Come on people! Part of being a kid is carrying your heavy bag around school!

hope you enjoy paying all those chiropractor bills for your kid! Seriously, it's 2012 now. Lugging all those textbooks before 2012 sucked, but get over it! Physical textbooks suck, have sucked, and will always suck. Why subject future generations to things from ours that suck? Why not improve things so things that suck are in the past and we can all move forward?

 

[Heebeejeebies]

There is a big difference between textbooks and pretty much any other kind of book. A textbook is a tool to provide information to students. The only thing Apple has done, is to make it more interactive. I think students will absorb the same amount of information, but perhaps a little bit quicker.

Learning is NOT about reading and processing. Learning is, by all definitions, the acquisition of knowledge through the association of two stimuli. You touch a hot stove, and you learn not to touch it again because it hurts. A baby learns to speak when people surrounding that baby respond positively. A dog sits because he/she is presented with a treat. On the other hand, when you come home to a clawed up couch and yell at your cat, there is no learning occurring. The cat is associating two stimuli - you entering your house, and you yelling at him/her.

In that sense, today's textbooks lack this association. Sure, I can take a test, get an A, and feel a sense of accomplishment. Maybe my parents reward me for a good report card with a present. There is an association, but it is weak. But when I am asked where Japan is on a map, and I click on the right answer and receive instant acknowledgment, there is a much stronger association, leading to acquisition of knowledge.

I agree that this new tool needs to be used in the correct context. You cannot learn chemistry by watching videos. You need to put baking soda and vinegar together PHYSICALLY, to understand what is happening. Simply taking someones word for it is naiveté. However, I cannot observe the molecular changes occurring during the chemical reaction, and a video showing me what may be happening will help me to strengthen the association.

As far as creativity is concerned, there is no substitute for self-imagination. Reading "Alice in Wonderland" is different from watching the namesake movie. It doesn't matter how you read it, but to imagine the creativity the author intended is to imagine it YOURSELF, not the way Tim Burton did.

To some of the other points being made, I am not a chiropractor, nor any kind of eye care professional, so I can't say whether lugging around 50 lbs worth of books and staring at a screen all day is healthy or not, but all I know is I wear glasses and have a bad back and I blame it on my textbooks and the fact that I had a mild gaming addiction back in high school...

Everything in moderation people...

 

[Abazigal]

Anyways, now, it is the maids who carry the heavy bags for the children. Show some care and concern for your domestic helpers, damnit! Lest you get charged for abuse.