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Don't fear the technology. Embrace it and move forward, cause its not going away.

Paper books will continue to decline and be replaced by digital fictions, either interactive or not, it doesn't matter.

I'm a prodigious reader and have not picked up a paper book in three years. I am not looking back. Neither should you.

I'm an Undergraduate Electrical Engineer who loves technology. This has nothing to do with being afraid of technology, it's weighing up positives and negatives. You don't think any of my points have any merit?

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You realise that your link reinforces my point? Why do you think electrical devices have warnings that say "do not use for excessive periods of time" and "take regular breaks"?

From your own link: when using a computer for long periods of time, the eyes blink less than normal (like they do when reading or performing other close work). This makes the eyes dry, which may lead to a feeling of eyestrain or fatigue. So encourage your kids to take frequent breaks from Internet surfing or video games.

I'm not saying people will go blind, but there are negatives effects to staring at screens, especially if it was done in school all day long. Anyone who says otherwise is naive.
 
Learning to me is about absorbing information. One READS information and processes it. This is a tough thing to do since it requires a lot of brain activity, which is why learning is always hard. Thats the point! However, once you have learned something it's satisfying and it stays with you. With this method its more like watching a documentary or television! It's not really learning at all. Its more like watching videos with some small captions.

I agree with many comments in this thread, but not this one.

Anytime you have a student passively receiving information rather than actively involved in the learning process you will have lower retention levels. There is very little difference in understanding and long term retention whether the method of delivery is reading a book, watching a movie, etc.... though one could argue that at least animations and movies deliver to more than one learning style.

Higher levels of understanding and retention are achieved when students are actively involved in the learning process through small group work, discussion, debate, role playing, simulations, etc.

In my teaching environment I want my students coming in prepared for lessons with a base level of understanding that we will build on in class. Whether they get that base level of understanding from reading a book, watching a video, etc is not relevant to me..... if they have it they have it. My classroom activities will then build on that through active forms of instruction that challenge them and make them work with the content.
 
I'm an Undergraduate Electrical Engineer who loves technology. This has nothing to do with being afraid of technology, it's weighing up positives and negatives. You don't think any of my points have any merit?

No. It all sounds technophobic and troglodytic...
 
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What are you talking about? Who said books published themselves? What does publishing have to do with anything? I really think this is a valid point. I know other information is tracked and logged but that doesn't mean everything should. I don't understand your attitude I'm afraid.

You said "does anybody else wish that there were some things they could do without some huge corporation being involved?" Taking Apple out of the picture doesn't do away with "huge corporations" - the publishing industry is also made up of big corporations. So unless you're advocating a return to Monks being the only people capable of reproducing books, big corporations will always be involved with reading. So Apple knows whose reading Grade 12 Chemistry. The publisher already knows exactly whose reading what because they sold them to the school.

Why is it so bad for Apple to know what you're reading, but it's all right for McGraw-Hill to know what you're reading? If you're going to worry about corporations tracking anything, I'd be a lot more concerned about companies knowing my spending habits, where I shop, and what I buy (which banks and credit card companies know), then I am about what textbooks my school has instructed me to read.

This worry about "big corporations" is absolutely absurd.

These are fair comments. I wasn't suggesting that were not good sides to this proposal. This thread is called the "dark side of iBooks 2". There is both good and bad. For me though, the bad outweighs the good. Again, what you mentioned you could be used for supplementing learning, which is what it is used for today. It doesn't need to be a primary tool.

That's because your perceived "bad" things are straw man arguments or worse. No one ever said that digital textbooks are going to become the only way of learning.
 
This is a (mostly) interesting and thoughtful discussion. On the whole though, and as someone who uses my iPad for "everything" (see my signature...) I can't help but think that at the end of the day the best inputs in order for the output to be a good education are: dedicated teachers and a positive home environment.

An iPad textbook is a tool, and only a tool. In that way it's just like a paper textbook even if the former has way more bells and whistles. A tool, if handled improperly, is suboptimal at best, useless or damaging in the worst case. But that's hardly the fault of the tool, or even inherent to one tool over another. It is what it is.

The continued integration of technology in education is inevitable and inexorable, as it is in all other aspects of life. It is our responsibility - collectively, as "humanity" - to ensure that technology is available, optimized and used to provide maximal benefit to the greatest number of people. At least that's how I see it.

/soapbox
 
Learning to me is about absorbing information. One READS information and processes it. This is a tough thing to do since it requires a lot of brain activity, which is why learning is always hard. Thats the point! However, once you have learned something it's satisfying and it stays with you. With this method its more like watching a documentary or television! It's not really learning at all. Its more like watching videos with some small captions.

I agree with many comments in this thread, but not this one.

Anytime you have a student passively receiving information rather than actively involved in the learning process you will have lower retention levels. There is very little difference in understanding and long term retention whether the method of delivery is reading a book, watching a movie, etc.... though one could argue that at least animations and movies deliver to more than one learning style.

Higher levels of understanding and retention are achieved when students are actively involved in the learning process through small group work, discussion, debate, role playing, simulations, etc.

In my teaching environment I want my students coming in prepared for lessons with a base level of understanding that we will build on in class. Whether they get that base level of understanding from reading a book, watching a video, etc is not relevant to me..... if they have it they have it. My classroom activities will then build on that through active forms of instruction that challenge them and make them work with the content.

Surely reading information for yourself and processing it is more active than watching a video? It requires critical thinking and concentration where as simply watching a video doesn't. Video's and whatnot are good for supplementing (sorry I keep using this word, it just fits the purpose) and getting a visual depiction. To truly understand something properly is something you cannot get from watching a video or messing with animations.

It's a long process that requires a lot of thought and a lot of hard work. I guess I'm going more into secondary school level here as opposed to primary school.

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Why is it so bad for Apple to know what you're reading, but it's all right for McGraw-Hill to know what you're reading? If you're going to worry about corporations tracking anything, I'd be a lot more concerned about companies knowing my spending habits, where I shop, and what I buy (which banks and credit card companies know), then I am about what textbooks my school has instructed me to read.

This worry about "big corporations" is absolutely absurd.

Don't you see the contradiction here? You just said you are concerned about companies knowing your spending habits and then you said to worry about big corporations is absurd. :confused:
 

They mention in the LA Unified School district trials that the kids did better with the ipads - but - that's just one set of data.

I think, even with the potential drawbacks you mention, schools should try ipads/ibooks in the manner they see fit, in a limited manner, until concrete and repeatable results can be measured.

One thing... if I understand it correctly, currently textbooks are supposedly carefully selected by committees from a certain number of available texts.

With iBooks author, you're probably going to have an explosion of available textbooks. Sounds good, until parent A. demands their kid be taught out of iBook that has equivalent information on biology, but emphasizes intelligent design.

Or say parents of a minority group in a large school demands iBooks that are tailored to their history and culture?

I suppose this is happening now to a certain degree... but I'm somewhat concerned about the potential for Balkanization in learning.
 
Admission: have not read this entire thread (good discussion):

There are good things and bad things about everything, and it appears that both sides are well and thoughtfully represented here.

There is also the law of unintended consequences.
Our brains are already changing from having to retain a lot of information, and do something with it, to developing skills to manipulate the infinite amount of information that is instantly available.

Good thing/bad thing?

"It was the best of times. It was the worst of times."

Can it be both at the same time?

Overall, I think its a good development, especially considering how broken the present school book system is.

Some states' school boards are going to have a fit, seeing as how it will be easier to sneak in all that perceived "evil" knowledge ("I don't believe in the age of rocks. I believe in the Rock of Ages").
 
Everyone learns in their own way. Some people pick up the info by reading, some by a visual aid (be it video, pictures, and some people with audible cues (spoken word, music, what have you, and still others don't learn unless they do whatever is being taught. some need a couple of those in order to learn. And then there are those like me who pick it up any one of those ways and some times need two of those to get it. As well as any other methods that work for someone to learn.

I think the ability to To have a textbook that can use all of those methods to teach the subject, is a wonderful advancement for teachers. I also believe it is more engaging format, where a student is interacting with the 'book' to watch a video about what they just read, or listen to what a particular animal sounds like, or hear the music they are describing.

I don't see it as passive at all, but more interactive and engaging. A way to draw the reader in. Also to the argument about they all see the same thing...it is a text book, probably a good thing. And those that think, and visuallize something else will still do so. It is in their nature to be that way.
 
There is one thing I forgot to mention also. In the Keynote when Schiller was weighing up the pros and cons of traditional books against iPads, he said this:

Books - Not Durable
iPad - Durable

Really Phil? If I drop my book on the floor I can pick it up and it will be fine. If I drop my iPad on the floor, it will probably dent and the screen could shatter.

Some of the points in the keynote were pretty awful if I'm honest. He also said books aren't searchable...:eek:
 
Steve said it himself to President Obama that the education in America needs serious rethinking. Why force information to a student that has no interest in it? All you are doing is wasting time and energy as after the testing is over that information will be pushed back out. All this does is allow the States to say 'we tried to educate them.'. Things need to be ENGAGING, not cram and jam on pre-test night.
 
iBooks is a good tool. It should be used to supplement learning when necessary. It can be good at this. It should NOT be used as a primary teaching tool though and I hope this never makes it way into schools for the reasons I stated.

Minor points aside, I'm not sure what makes you think iBooks will become the primary teaching tool instead of a good supplementary tool. If a teacher or a school system thinks they can just throw an iBook at a child and sit back and do nothing, then they have more problems than can be solved with the best educational tools in the world. Even traditional textbooks don't teach a child anything just by sitting there in a child's book bag. The child has to be taught how to read, interpret and learn information from a book. In that sense, textbooks were always supplementary tools -- the primary tool always has been and always will be the teacher, and his or her enthusiasm for sharing knowledge with the students. If we do not have good teachers, then any educational tool will just go to waste, never mind if it's printed book, digital book, videos, interactive apps, or what not.
 
Steve said it himself to President Obama that the education in America needs serious rethinking. Why force information to a student that has no interest in it? All you are doing is wasting time and energy as after the testing is over that information will be pushed back out. All this does is allow the States to say 'we tried to educate them.'. Things need to be ENGAGING, not cram and jam on pre-test night.

I totally agree! Things do need to be engaging! When I was in school I had an awesome teacher who made class fun. He engaged the pupils by doing demonstrations, including some humour, encouraging discussion. These things are engaging and improve results. Most of the responsibility falls to the teacher.

I fail to see how giving every student an iPad will engage them with the curriculum. It is absolutely true that this has positives which is why I must use the word "supplement" yet again. :p But for the reasons I mentioned in my original post, I think it could potentially do more harm than good.

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Minor points aside, I'm not sure what makes you think iBooks will become the primary teaching tool instead of a good supplementary tool. If a teacher or a school system thinks they can just throw an iBook at a child and sit back and do nothing, then they have more problems than can be solved with the best educational tools in the world. Even traditional textbooks don't teach a child anything just by sitting there in a child's book bag. The child has to be taught how to read, interpret and learn information from a book. In that sense, textbooks were always supplementary tools -- the primary tool always has been and always will be the teacher, and his or her enthusiasm for sharing knowledge with the students. If we do not have good teachers, then any educational tool will just go to waste, never mind if it's printed book, digital book, videos, interactive apps, or what not.

You make a very valid argument. I guess when I say supplement I mean a supplement to reading. I'm saying that interactive media should not replace reading and critical thinking, but be used as an addition to further understanding.
 
I just saw the iBooks 2 demo and it left me a little worried.
Why? Because no one forces you to use it?

From what I see, Apple are trying to replace the Textbook in Schools.
No, it is just a technology demo. Have we eInk and ePaper in offices? No. And now ask yourself "Why?"! You can give yourself the same answer(s) regarding iBooks.

Learning to me is about absorbing information. One READS information and processes it. This is a tough thing to do since it requires a lot of brain activity, which is why learning is always hard. Thats the point! However, once you have learned something it's satisfying and it stays with you. With this method its more like watching a documentary or television! It's not really learning at all..
If you are not (or no longer) able to learn something from a documentary, then it is either a problem of the channel or it is your personal problem. Do not assume others have the same problems, because they have a different background and live in other countries. And regarding the brain activity: Where are your proofs?

2. Why has nobody mentioned that in essence this will result in children staring at a screen for hours on end every single day?!
Because the pauses are already regulated in many civilized countries around the world.

We already spend too much time in front a screen as it is.
Who is "We"?

If this made its way into classrooms it would be awful!
Yeah, just like the technological innovations of the past 200 years, which save lifes. Really terrible! ;-)

Personally I think there could be huge health implications of this.
I agree! You should measure your blood pressure! ;-)

3. Again I'm not anti Apple here...
No, just a little bit against options.


4. I also fear...
That seems to be your main problem. You fear the unknown.

Come on people! Part of being a kid is carrying your heavy bag around school! It instills discipline and teaches that child a lesson. It makes them grateful when they get into class and can sit down and learn!
Or in other words: You have no real arguments.

Children bought up on this proposal will only be more lazy and unwilling to do anything that is handed to them on a plate, or in this case a fancy glass screen.
You repeat yourself.

Let me reinforce though that this is NOT an anti iBooks thread!
No, absolutely not! And i'm santa claus. ;-)

iBooks is a good tool.
You said the opposite. Or do you not read what you write?
 
I agree with your comment about the publisher designing the layouts, that's an important point so thanks for pointing that out.

But, I find it very hard to believe most won't incorporate what I mentioned since that is the point after all is it not? If text is supposedly boring nowadays and not engaging as some say, what's the point of bringing simply text to the iPad? It eliminates the whole point of Apple's unique experience argument and adds the health implications I mentioned.

I find your comments the screen statement quite naive though. Spending excessive periods of time in front of a screen, especially a child is bad for eyesight. This isn't a myth I'm afraid. Some spend more time than others, I understand that of course. It's not hard to gather however that youths nowadays do spend too much time with their gadgets and it does have negative effects.

I don't understand your lightbulb analogy though... it seems silly and somewhat desperate if I'm honest. If you're suggesting that people shouldn't stare at lightbulbs, I agree.

You mentioned 3G and Wifi signals in regards to health implications. This is actually a very good point and it does worry me at times! I just didn't mention it because it was off topic.

Also, some people keep referring to the heavy bag comment.. :p Ok, if the bag is extremely heavy and can hurt the child then obviously they shouldn't carry it. It was a figure of speech and only applies to a reasonable weight. In any case, don't schools have lockers anymore?

Your last comment is completely right. Making life easier does not always mean people become lazier. But, I still think the points I mentioned raise some serious questions.



I find it interesting how you associate gratitude to religion almost naturally. Non religious people can't show gratitude?

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(...)
I understand what you mean. I think what Apple showed us, is more like a demo to show the possibilities. Authors can do very different things: as I said, some authors can decide to just do plain text and put none of this interactive stuff into their digital book. Others can do the same thing as Apple: little text, a lot of interactive stuff.

There's also a different way. First some pages of text and than the interactive content: kids will first learn about subjext X through text and than when all information has been told some interactive content could be placed at the end so they can actually see what is happening.

So, what I am really trying to say: I don't think authors will do the same as Apple (little text, lots of interactive content). I think authors will try to find a balance: text with the appropriate amount of interactive content.

Example of how authors could do it.
Let's say there's a chapter that's all about a parasite. An author could decide to split this chapter up: one paragraph is about how you can get this parasite. All this information will be told in text. At the end of the paragraph there's a short clip that shows you everything the text told you (so for example: a person eats it, parasite gets in body, you 'look' inside the body and see how the parasite is nestling itself). After this videoclip there's a page where kids can test their knowledge made up both out of text and interactive content.

So a paragraph would be set-up like this: 1. text, 2. videoclip/interactive content and 3. a combination of both text and interactive content.
A paragraph could also be set-up like this: 1. videoclip/interactive content (sort of introduction), 2. text with all the knowledge, 3. combination of both text and interactive content.


Authors who are going to create textbooks for iBooks will try to find a balance.

"I find your comments the screen statement quite naive though. Spending excessive periods of time in front of a screen, especially a child is bad for eyesight."

I didn't do a study anything eye-specific related, but what I have been taught is that bad eye-sight thanks to watching lots of television or something similar is just a story to keep kids from spending too much time behind the television. It does, however, depend on for example screen brightness: if you are going to look all day long at a very bright screen in a dark room, than it is indeed possible that it's harder for your eyes to adapt in the dark.

What I was trying to say with my light bulb example: looking at anything all day has the same effect as looking at the television all day. So let's say you look at, for example, your shoes all day (that stay in the same spot) has the exact same effect. The onliest difference is that the television actually shines at you and shoes don't (or at least aren't supposed to emit light). So the same thing can be said about anything.

"It's not hard to gather however that youths nowadays do spend too much time with their gadgets and it does have negative effects."

Again, this is an opinion. I see why you believe that some spend too much time with their gadgets and that spending too much time with your gadgets can have negative effects, but this is for everybody different.
You could, for example, think that watching 2 hours television per day is excessive. Someone else may think that watching 5 hours television per day is excessive.

I agree with you that is maybe too much, but you have to realize one thing: you can't stop it. If you forbid your kids to for example to watch more than 2 hours television per day, than they will just do it somewhere else or when you aren't home.

So instead of forbidding you should try other solutions. For example, not to forbid it but encourage a kid to find a hobby (result: kid will be more busy with hobby, so less busy with television/console/smartphone/tablet). Also, you could embrace it on other ways. If a kid owns a tablet, than you know he won't get rid of it because he likes it. You can forbid it, but that only results in fights and the kid will be even more curious. So what can you do? Instead of trying to forbid your kid of using a tablet, you could put some educational apps on it (or in this case: instead of forbidding gadgets like the iPad, make use of the gadgets to teach them).

So I can definitely understand why you believe that kids (and adults) spend too much time with their gadgets. The fact is that you can't stop it. You can forbid it for your child, but your child will get in touch with gadgets one way or another - and that what is forbidden, is very attractive.

About the heavy schoolbags... well, I think they are a part of school but I wouldn't mind if the weight you must carry is reduced (if that means carrying less books or replacing them with something else like an iPad doesn't really matter for me).

Regarding the 'screens-are-bad-for-your-eyes'-issue. I don't want to say it doesn't exist, but thus far I haven't seen really hard evidence - only theories. The number of people with reduced eye-sight haven't really increased.

I think the most 'dangerous' thing right now, are the wireless technologies like 3G and WiFi. That's an area of which we know really little about because we know really nothing about the long-term effects. Nothing. We are assuming it's relatively safe, but that's it.

"I find it interesting how you associate gratitude to religion almost naturally. Non religious people can't show gratitude?"
In Europe we see Americans mostly as very religious people, so I was assuming you were referring to thanking some sort of a God (and that's why I said 'God/Allah/Flying-Spaghetti-Monster/Anything-Else' so I wouldn't anger anyone). It's possible you were referring to thanking your parents or something like that, but I can't remember when I heard a kid saying: "Thank you mom and dad for giving me the opportunity of learning."
And sure non-religious people can show gratitude. I don't believe in a God and I can show gratitude. ;)


There is one thing I forgot to mention also. In the Keynote when Schiller was weighing up the pros and cons of traditional books against iPads, he said this:

Books - Not Durable
iPad - Durable

Really Phil? If I drop my book on the floor I can pick it up and it will be fine. If I drop my iPad on the floor, it will probably dent and the screen could shatter.

Some of the points in the keynote were pretty awful if I'm honest. He also said books aren't searchable...:eek:
Isn't it obvious that with searchable, he meant actually searchable. Sure you can look up certain chapters and paragraphs at one of the first or last pages (depending on the book), but you can't search for anything without looking for it yourself. Good luck finding all pages containing the word "eukaryotic cells" or something like that.

I understand what you mean, but it's all about how we deal with technology.
 
I guess when I say supplement I mean a supplement to reading. I'm saying that interactive media should not replace reading and critical thinking, but be used as an addition to further understanding.

Well, of course interactive media shouldn't replace reading, and if you've ever taken film studies, you'll learn that there are ways to critically watch videos, which would also apply to interactive media. But interactive media really does have a place in certain places. For instance, I was looking through the new iTunes U courses designed to work with the iTunes U app, and found an astronomy course from Yale that has videos of the course lectures, plus a transcript of every lecture. So I've been reading the transcripts, because it's much faster to read transcripts than to watch the lectures, but when the prof starts talking about orbits and relative locations of planets and how they move in relation to each other, a good interactive video would be worth a thousand words. I wish they'd take this course and make it into a full interactive book. Now, the other course I'm reading. about the American Revolution, that's perfectly fine with just text. I don't want video from the HBO Sam Adams series spliced into the book. Although once I get to battles, maybe a few interactive maps showing movements of troops might be nice.

So there are useful and useless ways to incorporate videos and othe interactive elements into a textbook, and it's up to the publishers and authors to figure that out. And for schools, parents and students to use discernment in selecting books that make the best use of these digital enhancements. Yes, some digital textbooks will be awful, adding interactive stuff willy-nilly without much thought to if they are actually useful. But you know what? People who make books like that probably don't write much useful text, either. iBooks is a tool, and like another tool, it's only as good as the people handling it.
 
Developmental Disabilities

This is going to open the world to so many children, teens, and adults who learn through visual, audio, interactive means that it in itself will revolutionize the industry.

A year from now the world of education will be VERY different, for the better.

Anyone who sees a large downside to this simply is not in education. You don't team with McGraw Hill, and Pearson to do Paul Dean's "Fried Butter Sticks".

TV is next.

The Assimilation Continues. :apple:
 
Don't you see the contradiction here? You just said you are concerned about companies knowing your spending habits and then you said to worry about big corporations is absurd. :confused:

No, I didn't. I said if you're going to worry, there are better things to worry about.

You are constructing ridiculous straw man arguments. For (another) example:

Surely reading information for yourself and processing it is more active than watching a video? It requires critical thinking and concentration where as simply watching a video doesn't. Video's and whatnot are good for supplementing (sorry I keep using this word, it just fits the purpose) and getting a visual depiction. To truly understand something properly is something you cannot get from watching a video or messing with animations.

You are assuming that all people learn best by reading information. This is absolutely not true. You're arguments depend on a flawed premise, which means even if those arguments had merit, they've lost any credibility because the premise is so flawed.

Even if your premise was valid, you're making a number of assumptions about digital textbooks that are based on what you think they might look like. Namely, that video and animation will almost completely take the place of text in digital books.

What you seem incapable of considering is that videos and animations will become only a supplement to actually reading the content. A textbook that's all video already exists: it's called a video. So the idea that suddenly textbooks will be uniformly replaced with embedded videos is silly. Video has been around for half a century, and VCR/DVD players for 25 years, and yet no one has fully replaced textbooks which VHSs/DVDs.

The "dark side" to digital textbooks you've invented is not representative of what digital books are, it's representative of one extreme view of what digital books could be. There's no reason to believe that that's the form they'll take in real life.

You're entire concern seems to come from this:

When I saw the demo, literally every page of every book was filled with huge videos and animations and what not. The actual text was probably the least populous part of the page.

So you're basing your entire argument against digital textbooks on a brief video demo? Have you actually downloaded any of the available texts and looked at the text-to-video/animation ratio? Of course Apple is going to focus on the flashy interactive components in their demo, it's what's new and exciting and interesting. But I'll wager that in the real world, video and animation will be the minority in most textbooks.
 
I just saw the iBooks 2 demo and it left me a little worried. As an owner of an iPad let me say that I do use iBooks and that it is a great app! This is no bash at iBooks! For me iBooks is a great way to casually read books and supplement learning. The key word here is supplement.

From what I see, Apple are trying to replace the Textbook in Schools. Personally, I think this is actually quite frightening and worrying. Let me explain why.

First let me say I don't think of this as an apple bashing thread. That said, I disagree with your conclusions.

. I also fear that this will serve few purposes other than to make children lazy. As previously mentioned this isn't a proper learning experience. Schiller mentioned in the Keynote that carrying textbooks around in a bag is a chore! Come on people! Part of being a kid is carrying your heavy bag around school! It instills discipline and teaches that child a lesson. It makes them grateful when they get into class and can sit down and learn!

Children bought up on this proposal will only be more lazy and unwilling to do anything that is handed to them on a plate, or in this case a fancy glass screen.

What a bunch of crap. Part of being a kid in your day, may have meant carrying around almost useless textbooks weighing 50 lbs from class to class. Most of the kids I went to school with placed those books in a locker and only took them out as needed. The only ones I carried home, were those needed for homework.
The kid's job is to learn, our job as parents and educators is to make their job's easier. I did not become physically fit from carrying books around, I became physically fit by exercising.

. 3. Again I'm not anti Apple here, but does anybody else wish that there were some things they could do without some huge corporation being involved? Reading books to me is about escapism. I like reading my books because its just me and the book. I don't want Apple or Google or whoever it is knowing every single book I read and what I grew up reading as a child. All of this information will probably be profiled and be used to sell me more stuff through advertising.

Do we really need to throw children into the evils of this?.

Are these school books we arre discussing or personal books? School books every one knows what books the children are reading. Foreign countries even can find that information. This issue has nothing to do with school books.

. 2. Why has nobody mentioned that in essence this will result in children staring at a screen for hours on end every single day?! We already spend too much time in front a screen as it is. If this made its way into classrooms it would be awful! A child's eyes are still developing and are very sensitive. All they do outside of school is play on their computers and are attached to their phones. Now.. they have to be attached to a screen in school as well?

Personally I think there could be huge health implications of this.

This is the only thing you have said that might be true. But no one knows. On the same token, so many people who have read books over the years have glasses, could that have been from reading books causing eyestrain?
And with you in your twenties, just barely out of kidstuff anyways, Your conclusions are flawed, I see alot of kids playing outside with and without their phones.

. 1. When I saw the demo, literally every page of every book was filled with huge videos and animations and what not. The actual text was probably the least populous part of the page. Doesn't anyone else see the negatives of this? Children in todays world already spend to much time in front of a screen. Technology in a sense has decreased a child's ability to pay attention without some fancy display in front of them. I fear that if a child is bought up with this tool, it will have the opposite effect to what is intended.

Learning to me is about absorbing information. One READS information and processes it. This is a tough thing to do since it requires a lot of brain activity, which is why learning is always hard. Thats the point! However, once you have learned something it's satisfying and it stays with you. With this method its more like watching a documentary or television! It's not really learning at all. Its more like watching videos with some small captions.

There is no critical thinking involved since it is a passive experience. Its almost like a person cannot read a book anymore without some sort of stimulation. To me it will only worsen a kids lack of concentration and make them more unable to sit and read a proper book with focus..

Perhaps when one watches Sitcom TV, no critical thinking is involved, but when watches videos regarding a subject being taught in class, it generally does not make the child passive. In my experience it makes them ask questions. Especially if they are going to be tested on that. I had teachers that used video, although at that time it was called film, and used that as a stepping stone to a lesson. Also, my kids do read on the ipad, "proper books"
As well as use it for studying and homework and playing. And also I read on the ipad. I use it for books that I am intrested in learning, and fun books because I just like to read. One of your problems it seems is that you are losing the smell and taste and texture of the books, which is not about the words on the page, but the medium. I prefer reading on the ipad, because I will never leave it in a train station, or on an airplane.
 
Learning to me is about absorbing information. One READS information and processes it. This is a tough thing to do since it requires a lot of brain activity, which is why learning is always hard. Thats the point! However, once you have learned something it's satisfying and it stays with you. With this method its more like watching a documentary or television! It's not really learning at all. Its more like watching videos with some small captions.

There is no critical thinking involved since it is a passive experience. Its almost like a person cannot read a book anymore without some sort of stimulation. To me it will only worsen a kids lack of concentration and make them more unable to sit and read a proper book with focus.

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My bold.

You are confused. I find your argument contradictory.

You have basically given your support to the status quo of traditional rote learning, yet claim to support critical thinking.

There is little if any critical thinking in traditional rote learning.

I tell my Medical GP he is basically redundant if he doing little more than regurgitating what I can find on the web, online journals and ebooks. What qualified him as a practitioner in the old paradigm, disqualifies him in the new if he insists on mistaking the trees for the forest.
 
Don't you see the contradiction here? You just said you are concerned about companies knowing your spending habits and then you said to worry about big corporations is absurd. :confused:

1. Don't worry. Accept it or fight it, but don't worry.

2. Understand problems. If your supermarket has tons of information about your shopping habits, and your bank knows everything about where you are spending your money, what Apple knows is quite limited.
 
I'm an Undergraduate Electrical Engineer who loves technology. This has nothing to do with being afraid of technology, it's weighing up positives and negatives. You don't think any of my points have any merit?

Ah, yes, nothing like having undergraduate engineering students discussing educational theory. You're basing your arguments on what are obviously graphic examples of the potential for interactive textbooks. Not every lesson will be replaced with videos and not every subject will be treated identically.

As an avid reader on the iPad for the last 2 years (and on the Kindle before that) technology not only has a place in teaching but it provides for a more immersive experience. I read lots of non-fiction and when I reach passages that I find in need of clarification or expansion I can jump on the Internet and read about them in greater detail, thereby developing a deeper understanding of the subject matter. There is an enormous degree of potential for development of really valuable learning tools. As anyone who's studied physics or advanced math can attest, you don't often get any understanding of real-life applications of the subject being studied (even after physics labs). An electronic textbook can do that.

And while I absolutely agree that a good teacher can do the same, the cold reality of the educational system is that not every teacher has the necessary skillset or motivation to develop the subject matter fully.

As for reading text being the best way to absorb knowledge, that's just bunk. Any adult who grew up with "Schoolhouse Rock" can tell you they learned a lot of grammar rules - and certainly the preamble to the Constitution - pretty effectively from cartoon videos. The brain can absorb a lot through much more than just reading, which is why you can remember song lyrics from 40 years ago better than a news article you read three days ago.

Nothing like coming up with a thread title of "the dark side" of a subject that you know very little about.
 

Sorry if I come of a bit rantish here...

There is the simple fact that the eye does not relax when concentrating on something that is so up close. I don't think it's controversial to claim that most people who sit in front of a screen at some time have felt a bit weary.

I'm not talking about permanent eye damage at all here, since headache and red, bleary eyes can be bad enough.

Of course, the same can be true when reading a dead tree book for longer periods of time. It's just that I believe that nowadays the average user is sitting longer in front of a screen than he/she did reading small print on paper before the home computer took off. Fewer breaks etc.

Also, regardless of what some research might or might not say, lowering the brightness absolutely helps *me* and *my* eyes if I have to sit for long periods of time in front a screen. It's not pleasant to look directly into bright light (to use an extreme case: I don't think any optician would say that looking directly into the sun is a good idea), why should a screen that's often mostly white be any different?

For example, when I write in latex I use a text editor with a negative color theme to ensure that the largest area of the screen isn't also the brightest. Not even the body text is white (was too much contrast) but a slightly duller color that still creates good contrast to the darker background. For *my* eyes it makes a huge difference.

Learning to me is about absorbing information. One READS information and processes it. This is a tough thing to do since it requires a lot of brain activity, which is why learning is always hard. Thats the point! However, once you have learned something it's satisfying and it stays with you. With this method its more like watching a documentary or television! It's not really learning at all. Its more like watching videos with some small captions. [...]

That's a bit obnoxious. Some concepts are more easily *understood* via imagery, some are easier to *convey* via text. There is no absolute truth when it comes to *how* to teach and learn in the best possible way.

Also, people are very, very different when it comes to what method helps them learn efficiently. The written word, as in 'printed text', simply happens to be the most universally understood concept with the least amount of friction in order to produce learning material that can easily be reproduced and at the same time be understood by as many as possible. I.e. it makes passing on information relatively painless.

Whether the children will actually learn what they take in will be up to the school (in this case) to ensure. This has always been problematic. Here in Sweden the grades went literally haywire, since the current grading system at first wasn't explained in enough detail, together with too few grading levels. Schools more or less competed over grades, in that students achieving similar results recieved vastly different grades depending on which school they went to.

There is no critical thinking involved since it is a passive experience. Its almost like a person cannot read a book anymore without some sort of stimulation. To me it will only worsen a kids lack of concentration and make them more unable to sit and read a proper book with focus.

The critical thinking point is one I whole-heartedly agree with. Only not the way you describe it. The method of input (into one's brain) has nothing to do with critical thinking. I could give you example upon example of students who did nothing but to memorize a text word for word and could recite it all from memory. The result was good grades but little grasp of what they had actually read.

Critical thinking instead, is what is often lacking in the information age in general. The classic example of using Wikipedia as a scientific source is but one example, together with our more and more personalized internet bubble where word of mouth becomes fact in a never ending flow of information.

Also it seems much less passive than a text-only book so I don't understand what you're getting at.

Next, I'm not sure what constitutes a 'proper book' in your opinion. If text only, I covered that above; we simply haven't had the means until now to pick different media for different purposes in a form factor that is similar enough to a book that also has visuals that are good enough, e.g. a tablet computer.

It comes off a bit as the movie fear mongering when cinema became popularized (i.e. "They'll watch movies over reading books!"). And still people seem to read text-only literature more than ever nowadays. In fact, technology has helped in this area.

If this is only about learning, you should prioritize what actually help students to learn, rather than sniffing at the idea of new media in the learning sector. If it were the case - and it might be, I honestly don't know - that children are worse readers and writers nowadays then it might of course be a good idea to include more of that in school as losing those abilities can have very dire consequences later in life.

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There have been a lot of opinions in the last few days on Apple's new text book incentive. Anything from 'poor districts might be left out due to the "entrance fee"', to this kind of thread and everything in between (not to mention the aggrevation over iBook Author and the 30% publish fee an MS rep completely failed to understand and went on mocking Apple by comparing a free publishing tool with Word, a writing tool - also, what publisher doesn't take a publishing fee?).

What I don't get is (and this is partly an honest question, partly a rhetoric dito): would we really have been better off if Apple tried nothing - regardless of the business part of it all?

Personally I've had it with the weighty backpack (two or three dictionaries, several text books and often I needed the computer for some project as well) and technology helped immensely, especially shifting from paper dictionaries to dedicated electronic ones.

Which brings up the point of searching for key words in digital texts. My old supervisor usually had his dead tree books at hand but used Google Books to find the exact page to find what he was looking for. This is how I work as well. For example there is this tome called 'A reference grammar of Japanese' that noone has bothered to typeset anew (reprinted as-is, basically). Reading and finding anything in there can be a daunting task. 1200 leaf thin pages in horrible print, 1.5 kg (3.4 pounds) - hardcover. Having it in a digital version, much less so and yet so much more in every other way.

So since the reading experience on a tablet can be at least sufficient, in return we can process the text as we please, which is absolutely fantastic.

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I should add that I'm an absolute typography nut. I love well-printed material and take pleasure in reading a book that is thoughtfully typeset and well designed. I am also a huge music lover who went from vinyl, to CD, to digital purchases, so I understand the 'de-personalization' (including an empty shelf) that comes with only having a book in digital form. Yet I can only embrace the concept of the digital personal library, including text books.

We still need many more publishers for me to be interested for real (actually, I have to confess I hadn't heard of any of the publisher currently on board - I want/need Oxford, Cambridge, Blackwell etc) but I'd say Apple's current vision is where we are, at least in some manner, heading.

For the better.
 
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I'm pretty old (60). But I remember seeing a movie (don't even remember the name) where a bunch of scientists were trying to address a problem. One of them handed a printout to another who promptly threw it down stating "I can't make heads or tails of this, put it up on the screen". This must have been 20+ years ago. I thought, even back then, this is what the future will look like.

Not saying the OP's observations are right or wrong. But the genie is out of the bag and I highly doubt we can put it back. And to be honest, just because it 'worked for us' doesn't mean it must be the same for future generations. That path is not a path, it's a circular journey that goes nowhere. The only thing our educators can do is to work to ensure that it doesn't detract from the learning. Apple isn't the first to have thought of this. It's just that the tech is finally catching up.

And as for the heavy books, when my son was in school in the 80s I was appalled at the weight of his backpack. He had no time between classes so he had to carry all of his books all the time. I don't know if it did harm or good. But it did seem a bit over-the-top. If we are worried about the amount of exercise our kids get, carrying heavy backpacks is not the solution.
 
Surely reading information for yourself and processing it is more active than watching a video? It requires critical thinking and concentration where as simply watching a video doesn't. Video's and whatnot are good for supplementing (sorry I keep using this word, it just fits the purpose) and getting a visual depiction. To truly understand something properly is something you cannot get from watching a video or messing with animations.

Your theory is based on the fact that reading always requires critical thinking..... It does not.

Your theory is based on the belief that watching a video or animation does not require critical thinking whereas it often can.

There are several domains of learning, different levels of understanding (I.e. Bloom's taxonomy), and more than one way to skin a cat. I've had many students over the years that could not understand concepts on the written page until they were shown them visually though videos, animations, demonstrations, etc.

I guess I'm going more into secondary school level here as opposed to primary school.

I teach post secondary.
 
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