The dark side of iBooks 2 / Textbooks

[Mcclure]

As a high school teacher I think this is the future of education.

I find the comment about students not reading especially interesting. I teach engineering and math, but my wife teaches English, she likes to read the current books that are popular and she is constantly reading them even though they take 1 or 2 nights most of the time. Young adult books are as popular or more popular now than they have ever been. Harry Potter, Twilight, Hunger Games, the list goes on and on.

As for the text book having too many pictures/videos, you can always rotate the iPad and it becomes much more like a traditional text book. With science and math though the more interesting the better. Trying to get a high school student to picture the rotation of a line intersecting a parabola around the y-axis is an interesting task to say the least.

The other huge factor in iPad textbooks is that they can allow students to move much better at their own pace. If there are videos in my math text book that explain how to graph a line the student is much more likely to move ahead on their own. Same with the built in assessments. I'm not saying they will replace the teacher but when I have 35 students in an Algebra I class it is very difficult to give students individualized instruction. Figure in a 50 minute class each student gets 85 second of individualized instruction.

 

[BJMRamage]

This seems to be a good discussion. I disagree with the OP but totally see this as a marketing tool for Apple, get people hooked early means they stick with your company. And as some have said I remember when textbooks were "old/outdated" when going through K-12. Most of the info was correct but maybe not all, but then I think the costs of the books was probably high and thus inly updated every so often, will $15 a book per student per year be something that is attainable, not sure. I can see school giving out Code Cards like Starbucks Pick of the Week for students to download per-purchased textbooks to use, paid for by the schools.

As far as learning, we all need to get our heads out of the sand for a bit. Like someone mentioned previously there was a time when Books were frowned upon. If schools never introduced computers/tablets/technology, when students graduated they'd be out of the norm.

I also hate when people say TV/Tablets/Computers/etc are bad for children and books are better. If I gave a book to a child who cannot read, they can look at the photos/images and words but may not make connections. If I sit and explain things and read to that child it will help. Most children learn by listening before reading. If I sit a child in front of a TV they can learn some but I still need to explain things. We sometimes watch nature shows and we explain the animals on screen and what is going on, just as I would a book of a similar subject. Simply sitting a child in front of a TV as a baby-sitter isn't great, nor is it great with tablets/computers or even books if they cannot comprehend those things.

My son "plays" with the (Grover) Monster at the End of this Book app. He loves it (maybe too much) and I too had that book. My parents would read it to me. I can read the book on the iPad or let the App read it to him. The book is great. The App is great. He tells me what is going on on the pages, mainly because he's asked or I told him or the App told him, like my son telling me "Grover's gluing the page together."

I am not saying eTextbooks are the only way of learning. But they give that next step in learning. Just as computers were brought into classrooms and used for learning (and some gaming) and we are in essence fine, so will tablets find their way into schools and learning. In the mid-20th century school kids could stuff a comic book into their textbook and avoid learning…today it will be a game/comic book app rather than the textbook. Some children are better at disciplining themselves and sticking to the task at hand and others are not.

We used to watch movies and before that Film in science to learn. Watching animals migrate in video format is much cooler that simply reading about it. Seeing how regions lose water during different seasons can be read in text or watched on TV/computers.

 

[makinao]

I think the OP's bias towards text in the hierarchy of knowledge is an example of what it called the "tyranny of text." To me, it takes just as much "brain activity" to listen to music and/or view images analytically than it does to read text. It can also require as much thought and intellect to produce a musical recording and/or film/video, than it does to publish a book. For that matter, nature doesn't have any text, and yet the information we can gather from closely and attentively observing it with all our senses is potentially richer than reading text in a book.

Its hard enough writing text. Its even harder integrating other media into a focused, cohesive document. But at least iBooks Author provides a platform which takes away some of the operational difficulties of doing so. And for that, I am thankful.

Text, sound, images, smells, and all other things which our senses can detect can all be used as tools for imparting knowledge. Its wonderful that the past few decades of technological development has given rise to devices that can put all these things in one "document". As an educator and scholar, I do not consider this technological gift as emanating from a "dark side".

 

[Hephaestus]

Who do people keep saying I'm biased towards text? Many of you are keen to point out that different digital books have different layouts yet you all brand every textbook as the same... how contradictory.

Don't many of you realise that there are different types of textbooks with different layouts also. Some are better than others. Some present information clearly with colour and whatnot and some are indeed boring.

You can't say "not all digital books are the same" and then go and label all textbooks as boring.

A book is a tool, just like the iPad is. When we read books we read them to gain something, fiddling with sliders on an iPad is going to be just that... fiddling with sliders on an iPad.

 

[poloponies]

Who do people keep saying I'm biased towards text? Many of you are keen to point out that different digital books have different layouts yet you all brand every textbook as the same... how contradictory.

Don't many of you realise that there are different types of textbooks with different layouts also. Some are better than others. Some present information clearly with colour and whatnot and some are indeed boring.

You can't say "not all digital books are the same" and then go and label all textbooks as boring.

A book is a tool, just like the iPad is. When we read books we read them to gain something, fiddling with sliders on an iPad is going to be just that... fiddling with sliders on an iPad.

You seem to fixate on physical books being ideal. Books are what they are because technology dictated their format, not because some panel of experts sat down and decided that reading printed text was the optimal way to learn. This "it worked for me so it should work for everyone" attitude is tiring. There are new opportunities for kids these days that help to keep them engaged in study. It may be overkill for 1/3 of them but it may help the 1/3 that may otherwise be lost (as for the third 1/3, ???).

 

[blipmusic]

[...]When we read books we read them to gain something, fiddling with sliders on an iPad is going to be just that... fiddling with sliders on an iPad.

You really don't read half of what people post do you?

Many posters have given you well written arguments both for and against. There has been discussion on how this could be integrated into current texts, examples of how this could work out in real life situations from real-life tutors, but all you do is to reiterate your opinions in the OP over and over.

Maybe text isn't your thing after all.

 

[mwulf67]

This is perfect example of a personal opinion in search of a problem...

Real books or ibooks are just tools to learning....kids who are predisposed to learn, either because of good teachers, involved parents, and/or a personal desire to learn, with be successful at learning regardless of whether they use text books or ibooks....

On the flip side, those kids who are not predisposed to learn, either because of lousy teachers, uninvolved parents, and/or they lack interest to learn, with still be unsuccessful at learning regardless of whether they use text books or ibooks....

It's a wash; no different, no impact...ibooks is neither a magic pill to learning nor a curse the OP wants to make them....it's just technological evolution...

 

[BJMRamage]

So, just like you can learn a lot via PBS/Discovery/Science Channel with TV, you can also become more of a buffoon/vegetable with E!/Spike/and other channels.

back to your first post...

1. you said it well, learning is about ABSORBING information. people do that effectively in lots of ways, not just one way.

2. Staring at a screen. I guess it could be bad. So might be looking at small print. Or print on a board at the front of a class. Maybe Fluorescent lights are bad too.

3. Go to the library and they'll have your history too.

4. Ehhh, not sure about lazy.


Reminds me of the idea of a test in the "old fashion" way and then then newer "open book" tests. In real life if I don't know an answer I can use a variety of references, sure if I knew it I'd have that answer sooner but the idea is, if not, I still know where to look to find it.


my beef with all this is we are again attaching ourselves to an electrical grid. Sucking up power/energy resources.
And then "desire" to live in a more material world.
The idea that we need to keep buying the latest and greatest to keep up with all the technological stuff coming out.

But the thought of updates to EducationBooks (textbooks) coming more frequently is a great thing. I remember the history books were a few presidents old in school. Now, if textbooks start to become linked with Ads or "CNN's coverage" "FoxNews Reports" or "MSNBC statistics" which means skewing of information, then that is awful.

 

[TheGenerous]

ohh I remember those guys in the classroom passing around a porn magazine. Now, it would be seamless with an iPad beam

 

[Senseotech]

My girlfriend is going to college to be a secondary ed math teacher. Two minutes with one of the sample math texts from the store, and she was giddy with excitement. All of the reasons stated by the OP are BS.

1. Video and Animations can help immensely in any class, especially a math class. Geometry students can have a 360 degree view of a trapezoidal prism or any other shape. Everyone learns differently, and there are a large portion that learn visually, not by reading words on the page but by seeing and doing.

2. Since you aren't a doctor and probably don't have a clue what you're talking about, I'll clue you in. Study after study has proven that a child's eyes aren't harmed by displays.

3. This really shows your idealistic, head-in-the-clouds outlook. I'd wager that a vast majority of the books you've read had major publishing company assistance, ruining your whole freedom from corporations utopia. And if you go buy a book at amazon, guess who has your history and WILL use it to advertise to you? Brick & Mortar stores are largely the same with "loyalty cards" that track purchases.

4. And Finally, this one is just moronic. "I had to carry heavy books, so the younger generations should too." So I take it we should just give up all innovation and invention to make life easier, since you've already had it your way and everyone else should too?

 

[makinao]

Who do people keep saying I'm biased towards text?

Because of statements like:

"When I saw the demo, literally every page of every book was filled with huge videos and animations and what not. The actual text was probably the least populous part of the page. Doesn't anyone else see the negatives of this?"

"Learning to me is about absorbing information. One READS information and processes it. This is a tough thing to do since it requires a lot of brain activity, which is why learning is always hard. Thats the point! However, once you have learned something it's satisfying and it stays with you. With this method its more like watching a documentary or television! It's not really learning at all. Its more like watching videos with some small captions."

"There is no critical thinking involved since it is a passive experience. Its almost like a person cannot read a book anymore without some sort of stimulation. To me it will only worsen a kids lack of concentration and make them more unable to sit and read a proper book with focus."

"Surely reading information for yourself and processing it is more active than watching a video? It requires critical thinking and concentration where as simply watching a video doesn't. Video's and whatnot are good for supplementing (sorry I keep using this word, it just fits the purpose) and getting a visual depiction. To truly understand something properly is something you cannot get from watching a video or messing with animations."

 

[TheWheelMan]

You make good points. However things will only move in this direction if people allow it too, I don't like the defeatist attitude some have when they act like they have no say in the matter...

The term "defeatist attitude" implies a battle of some kind that needs to be fought. I'm sorry, but kids today are not wired like we were (I'm in my 40s, and I wish I'd had this technology when I was young). If you're worried about kids getting physical activity and stimulation, why the hell are you talking about carrying a huge bag of heavy books around when the loss of PE is one of the biggest travesties of school today? Technology had nothing to do with that, and a kid certainly doesn't need to be lugging around a heavy bag for his "character" or whatever, otherwise you could just toss a bag of flour across his shoulders in the evenings and make him walk around the backyard for half an hour.

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And also, anybody with two eyes can see how well kids relate to technology, videos, and other interactive media. And in case you haven't noticed, kids haven't been learning very well using the "old ways" for quite a while now. Technology certainly isn't going to damage something that's already broken. It might help fix it, however.

 

[matteusclement]

We need to look at the system in place. I look at a model of public education looking like k-6, 7-9, 10-12, and the post secondary.

Personally, I don’t remember learning stuff from a textbook, but from my teacher. I feel the first place that tablets should be is in the hands of the teacher to enhance the learning experience. The textbook doesn’t teach, the TEACHER teaches .

So looking at a textbook from my viewpoint (in k-12), it is just a set of questions. But to the parent who is helping their kids with their homework, it can act as a learning tool or a refresher

The north American education system is based mainly in linguistics and mathematics. The simple fact is that if you cannot read well, word problems in chemistry, math, physics and others, are going to haunt you. We need to start incorporating Multiple Intelligences.

Howard Gardner (PhD) has shown that there are 8 kinds of intelligences (a ninth, spirituality, is in the works). These eight are: mathematical/logic, linguistic, intrapersonal/self-smartl, interpersonal/people smart, nature, musical, kinesthetic and one other. Tablets will finally allow students to bring the association back to learning.

For example, what is the difference between someone writing an essay on Alexander the great and another making a ballad song in Garageband singing about alexander’s rise and fall? Nothing. As long as the rubric used to mark the students is clear, the marking can be the same. Btw, a rubric on alexander might look like:
- student demonstrates knowledge in the period of alexander
- student explains one major war that alexander fought in
- student lists contributions the romans gave to the modern era during the great peace.

Tablets shouldn’t be in the hands of the students full time until roughly 16 years old. They need to develop proper reading and writing skills if they hope to succeed in their other classes and areas of life. If just used for textbook purposes, I can see potential, but why can’t the teacher show these videos to the class?

A basic kindle on the other hand, should be in every kids bag. The ability to carry a book everywhere has been a blessing to me with the iphone4 retina display. I am reading more than ever now.

One thing that hasn’t been mentioned here that gets me excited is the prospect of school districts or regional governments (heck, even just teachers doing it on their own) creating their own textbooks. FTW and boil down the information that is concise. Don’t buy the text books at all. This possible move to a peer reviewed but open source education system could be the change that Jobs was talking about. I want to be clear; I am not talking about plagiarism, but content created by teachers and peers. The concept is rough, but I think it has potential. There could even be classes in school that have kids create the multimedia content for the new iBook’s.

As far as post secondary (PSE), I honestly believe it is CRIMINAL how much students are charged for text books. Professors should be required as part of their “research” to create ebooks with peers for distribution to the school. There are 50lbs of books that I will NEVER use again.

For PSE, it should be iPads and iBooks, FTW.

 

[bocomo]

here are a couple of actual use cases that may be of interest:

http://speirs.org/
http://www.bgmsipad.blogspot.com/

 

[PracticalMac]

Picture worth 1000 words.

interactive demo worth 1,000,000 words.


As for heavy bags, it is already way to heavy, and consumes millions of trees!

If you think YOUR kid need heavy weight, put a lead brick in his bag!

 

[Tritons]

Points 1 & 2 are pretty much the same. Post 3 is nothing at all. Post 4 well it's kind of post 1 & 2.
But I see your point ir 1st argument.

 

[Hammie]

The biggest issue is funding in our schools. We are located in a State where education has been rated #1 of the country (Maryland). Our high schools are ranked in the top 7% of the country. However, we are not seeing any additional funding for this new type of technology. The bigger concern is the growing population and sizes of schools.

My wife works with Special Education students in an Elementary School. The district will not provide iPads to use with her students. Even though there is proof that there has been progress with iPads and special needs students. She is using her personal iPad with her personal apps and she is seeing kids respond to the instruction more and seeing progress as a result of the change in her lessons.

As a parent, I embrace this change. I know with my kids, reading on an iPad or iPad Touch is more fun than reading a book. Prior to having these devices in the house, it was a chore getting them to read (I always hated making it seem like a punishment when they did not read, especially when my wife and I are avid readers). Now, I see them reading on their own AND comprehending what they have read.

I also have used some apps or used the Internet to help them with their homework, especially when they either did not believe I knew how to do it or I needed help on how to do something.

Additionally, I downloaded the trial E.O. Wilson textbook to see what it is all about. My 10 year old son has gone through the various chapters and has been totally sucked in. He thought it was totally cool and has absorbed the information wonderfully.

I do agree that not all people learn the same way. I am more of a visual person where as my wife can learn from straight text. I also think the visual size of a book or textbook can be intimidating and turn a person off from reading it. With a digital book or textbook, you have no real physical size to correlate it too and this can make it more welcoming for a person to start reading it.

Just my two cents.

 

[BJMRamage]

The biggest issue is funding in our schools. We are located in a State where education has been rated #1 of the country (Maryland). Our high schools are ranked in the top 7% of the country. However, we are not seeing any additional funding for this new type of technology. The bigger concern is the growing population and sizes of schools.

Just my two cents.

I live in MD and can understand that point about funding. That will be a major hurdle. Currently schools can upgrade 1-3 books per year and so the payout is gradually made. This will happen sooner in private schools, I know of a private school locally that used to "give" out MacBooks but switched to iPads and can see them making the eTextbook switch sooner than Public schools.

The other issue is each county is appropriated money to the School Board who then decides what to use it on…be it teachers, school upkeep, books, supplies, administration, their own pockets. There are areas which are more affluent and some that aren't, and you know they'd only have 1 school or even class try it out. Then they'd hear angry parents complaining that their child did not get the new technology….

I can see select areas within the state getting the trial run on these but unless the textbooks are the same it might not be pass that easily. "why is this school learning from this book, when my son/daughter has an outdated book." I can see maybe certain high schools or Tech-type schools get them. I think their is a "Digital High School" in Baltimore City but not sure what that really means.

I'd give it 10 years before fully realized.

 

[spinedoc77]

What was wrong with the bag comment? Seriously though I mean it. When I was a kid in school I carried my bag of books. In the conference Phil Schiller mentioned this as a negative thing. It does a child good.

No it doesn't, there are serious health consequences to making these kids carry these very heavy bags all day long. I should know, I see many of them. The electronic revolution cannot come quickly enough for these poor kids.

 

[dontwalkhand]

Not everyone learns the same way, but for the vast majority of people, this method works.

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What was wrong with the bag comment? Seriously though I mean it. When I was a kid in school I carried my bag of books. In the conference Phil Schiller mentioned this as a negative thing. It does a child good.

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Why should I? Its my opinion.. if I was singing countless praises would you be saying blog it? Probably not.

Sorry, but that's what PE is for.

I would have loved to be able to Command + F a textbook (Find on this page), instead of hunting needlessly for the information I want, even though I have already read the section. Flipping and finding the right page and paragraph is a time waster and does nothing positive to help enrich what material I needed for the class.

Face it, the only thing that will be printed on paper in the future are instruction manuals for your stuff!

 

[touchmonkey]

Regarding the bag issue: the amount kids have to carry these days is much greater than in the "olden days". But they will never have to walk 10 miles through the snow uphill both ways like we did back then.

And before anyone comments they should check out the free e text book available on iTunes. Its pretty awesome.

 

[Hephaestus]

The bag comment was probably the least relevant point of my post and I wasn't being entirely serious. I wouldn't have included it if I knew you people were going to milk it so badly.

Anyway, I still think this is a good discussion.

 

[touchmonkey]

The bag comment was probably the least relevant point of my post and I wasn't being entirely serious. I wouldn't have included it if I knew you people were going to milk it so badly.

Anyway, I still think this is a good discussion.

That's how to let it roll off your back. Kudos.

 

[bri1212]

The bag comment was probably the least relevant point of my post and I wasn't being entirely serious. I wouldn't have included it if I knew you people were going to milk it so badly.

Anyway, I still think this is a good discussion.

I agree this is a good discussion. However, I disagree with most of your points on the basis of one thing, If you make it more fun or interesting for a kid to learn, then they are going to want to learn more. That is why the interactive media textbooks are going to be better for the kids.

 

[Hephaestus]

I agree this is a good discussion. However, I disagree with most of your points on the basis of one thing, If you make it more fun or interesting for a kid to learn, then they are going to want to learn more. That is why the interactive media textbooks are going to be better for the kids.

Very good point. It really does just depend on the implementation. I can see how this can benefit children by introducing some fun to their school work. That's not to say it couldn't take attention away from the work though with all the flashy additions. Like many of you have said, it depends on the implementation. I guess time will tell.