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The End of SAAB
- Thread starter joepunk
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Yep, that is what I meant. Even in the US, Opel is better lined up with Buick now due to Opel's recent push further upmarket then Chevy. Again, the Saturn Astra barely got any of the features the Euro market had( the Astra was what? the 3rd or 2nd best selling vehicle or in its class at the time).
I can't wait for the Regal to get here. When I was in London at the 2008 British Auto Show where the Vauxhall Insignia debuted, I liked it and couldn't wait until it came here as the 2010 Saturn Aura. But, now it is the 2011 Regal. Reviews have liked the Insignia as well in Europe. Though nothing seems valid until Clarkson gets a hold of it.
I'm looking forward to the Regal. As long as it is black, has RWD, and a huge turbocharged V6.
Yeah, this is what I am afraid will happen. Granted, there are less divisions of GM to worry about, but I can see Cadillac and Buick stepping on each other.
I'm looking forward to the Regal. As long as it is black, has RWD, and a huge turbocharged V6.
Nope. FWD and 4 bangers only. Though rumors are there might be a Regal GS.
It wouldn't be hard if Cadillac focused on BMW and Mercedes with RWD sport sedans and Buick focusing on the ES350, RX, RL, TL, and the other FWD offerings.
Yeah, I've read about the new Buicks. They look promising. I was just wishing for a Grand National, MKII. See my previous discussion of my lust for the GN/GNX.
I think part of the problem is that Cadillac is in the middle of transition, and GM doesn't have the money to focus on more than one model. I think once they finally redesign everything, they can compete against BMW and the like. Right now, though, it is a mix-n-match lineup while they focus on their best seller, the CTS. Other than the CTS, they have the ancient STS, and the beyond ancient DTS. At one time, they had plans to move the DTS from a front drive to a rear drive platform, but those got scrapped.
Yeah, I've read about the new Buicks. They look promising. I was just wishing for a Grand National, MKII. See my previous discussion of my lust for the GN/GNX.
I think part of the problem is that Cadillac is in the middle of transition, and GM doesn't have the money to focus on more than one model. I think once they finally redesign everything, they can compete against BMW and the like. Right now, though, it is a mix-n-match lineup while they focus on their best seller, the CTS. Other than the CTS, they have the ancient STS, and the beyond ancient DTS. At one time, they had plans to move the DTS from a front drive to a rear drive platform, but those got scrapped.
Bob Lutz is fighting hard to get the Zeta based DT7 back on track. Product decisions are now made by the executive board. When created execs like Fritz, LaNeve, and Ray Young were on the board. Fritz, Young, and LaNeve were all against Zeta products( they were bean counters and loved platform whoring). With the three of them gone( even though Young is still with the company, I think he was removed from the executive board) and Lutz, Whitacre, and Docherty on the board now it should be easier for them to get the DT7 back on track because they are all product people.
Until then, we will have to suffer with the Super Epsilon II FWD/AWD XTS.
Though nothing seems valid until Clarkson gets a hold of it.
Eh, Clarkson is a bit of a buffoon - albeit an occasionally entertaining buffoon...
What's a Saab?
SAAB is (was?) an Airplane company.
SAAB automobiles were called into existence right after WW2 when new cars were in short supply.
Poor little SAAB was making Airplanes and everybody was wanting Cars.
Before you know it, Airplane Engineers Bjorn and Sven had a "Hold My Beer And Watch This" moment at midnight during a thunderstorm and Presto!
(Or maybe "Helvetets eld och Fördömelse!"?)
The first SAAB car was bjorn oops... Born.
Not knowing the first thing about cars didn't slow Sven and Bjorn down. In grand Scandinavian fashion they just made it up as they went along and ended up with....
Ummmm...
A totally unique way of combining four wheels, some seats, a fuselage and some various bits and pieces to make it go ON THE GROUND instead of in the Air!
This original concept survived up until the model 96 which lasted at least into the 70's.
I miss mine sometimes. Crummy heat, mixing oil in the gas, noxious fumes and all. It was completely dependable and unstoppable. Well made and comfortable too. My 2nd car, an original Beetle wasn't as good.
This entire SAAB history was also made up as I went along,
Keri
Yep. It was the day they begun makin cars
SAAB = Swedish Aeroplane Company (AB = "aktiebolag", swedish for "corporation" like Ltd or Inc).
But sure, the old 96 was nice, as were their cabriolets.
Sure, but Saturn is not more premium than Chevy. Just different. Besides, if Chevy is not premium enough to bring in Opels as is, it cannot compete with Honda, Nissan or even Hyundai these days. So where did GM think it was positioning Chevy against? Kia? Besides, GM was not even consistent. Chevy Malibu is quite a fashionable looking car, but somehow Astra was too nice for that badge? I don't buy it.
In any case, Ford made the same mistake with Focus initially. When it brought Focus to the US, they cut corners on some financially insignificant details such as the types of power window buttons or using an even lower grade of fake wood, but made the car feel some much cheaper than the amount of money they saved. No wonder almost nobody around here drove them other than as rentals until very recently.
I like some of their later cars as well, but after the 96 or possibly the 99, the cars became increasingly conventional.
What disgusts me is the infection of the ego and stupidity of the 'GM psyche' and their 'bull in a china shop' way of screwing things up!
They shouldn't have been able to buy Saab in the beginning. Who would have thought that a great idea? An 'American company' out buying a Swedish car company.
It's stupid tragic decisions like that that killed GM along with the great Hughes buy and so many other stupid stupid decisions. Product wise and merger wise...
Too bad GM didn't die. The current president of GM (AFAIK) is the idiot that is why AT&T is the crappy company that it is now... Let GM die. They want to make all of their stuff overseas now anyway from what I've heard, in spite of being in essence bought by US, the tax payers of this country.
They shouldn't have been able to buy Saab in the beginning. Who would have thought that a great idea? An 'American company' out buying a Swedish car company.
It's stupid tragic decisions like that that killed GM along with the great Hughes buy and so many other stupid stupid decisions. Product wise and merger wise...
Too bad GM didn't die. The current president of GM (AFAIK) is the idiot that is why AT&T is the crappy company that it is now... Let GM die. They want to make all of their stuff overseas now anyway from what I've heard, in spite of being in essence bought by US, the tax payers of this country.
GM was trying to move Saturn upmarket as I stated in the previous post to go against VW. As I wouldn't consider The
I will repeat, the new Astra and Insignia if imported as a Chevy would have to be priced higher then the comparable Civic/Corolla and Camry/Accord. Which would not go well for sales when trying to take away sales from them. You saw how high the Saturn Astra was priced and it sucked in features. Now do that with Chevy and bring in all the features the Astra has. $18K minimum base price, at least $3K more then the comparable Civic/Corolla. You can expect the Buick Regal to demand $24-$26K base price. If that was a Chevy, GM can kiss trying to go against Camry/Accord goodbye when they are $3K-7K cheaper.
I doubt Saab would still be around if GM didn't buy them. They would have failed a long time ago as they were failing when GM bought them. Though I will agree GM has sucked when trying to manage niche brands.
How does GM want to make all their stuff overseas? You got the new Aveo going to be built in Orion, Michigan, Cruze in Lordstown Ohio, Volt and Orlando in Detroit, and LaCrosse and Malibu in Fairfax, Kansas. Only non-NA built product that comes to mind is the upcoming Chevy Spark. The new Regal will be temporarily imported from Germany for one year, but that will move to GM's Oshawa assembly plant in Canada. I am hearing GM is looking to move the new Cadillac SRX from their Mexico plant( along with closing that plant) to Ingersoll, Ontario plant where the new Chevy Equinox and GMC Terrain is being assembled since GM bought Suzuki's share of the plant.
The Lambda's( Traverse, Acadia, Enclave) are built in Lansing, Michigan. The CTS as well in another plant. You can also get GM's full size trucks assembled in the US as well. While the current and future Impala, Camaro, Regal, Equinox, Terrain, and possibly SRX coming out of Canada.
I was being sarcastic with that line.
Any further news on SAAB? The deadline was yesterday I believe...even if Spyker does make the purchase, can such a small company (Spyker's production must run in the dozens, certainly under 100 cars a year) turn SAAB into a viable car company again?
Fair enough - but I'm still going to take the opportunity to call Clarkson a buffoon.
And you may be right about Saab possibly having already died out if GM hadn't bought them, although it's useless to speculate.
Fair enough - but I'm still going to take the opportunity to call Clarkson a buffoon.
And you may be right about Saab possibly having already died out if GM hadn't bought them, although it's useless to speculate.
My dad almost broke down and cried when he found out about this. He has always bought Saab, and he can take one apart and rebuild it by himself. I know he's owned a 900, several 9000s, a 9-3 and currently a 9-5.
God knows what he'll buy next!
God knows what he'll buy next!
GM is going to start production of the new 9-5. I say he grabs it while he can and keep it forever.
Sorry, the brand that sold those Ions as its main model for so many years was not going to magically transform into an upmarket one and somehow make it easier for buyers to swallow higher prices that they wouldn't accept for a Chevy. I am surprised that GM thought it could pull it off. Well, actually, maybe I shouldn't be. There are not that many good decisions GM management has done.
You think GM thought they could do that overnight as well? As stated earlier, VW itself struggled to achieve going up market. Up until they decided to kill the brand, Saturn was their golden child when they decided to give it a renaissance like they did Cadillac( though they are somewhat screwing that up with them trampling on Buick's feet with the FWD SRX and upcoming FWD XTS, but people do respect the CTS/-V). But when they were in trouble last year, they knew they had to kill Saturn. They knew in order to survive they have to keep the 4 global brands and kill the non-global ones and try to sell Hummer and Saab.
GM knows their biggest challenge is to change the consumers perception of them. They know it is a big fight to undertake.
Which brings up a point that is more on-topic here....when you are talking serious luxury/sport sedans, it MUST be either RWD or AWD...FWD can't handle the power you must produce to compete with the competition. That is why the FWD Caddys are laughable, and why the FWD Acuras and Lexus-es are always going to be also-rans.
GM (along with the other US carmakers) have an unfortunate habit of favoring FWD in cars that should be AWD or RWD. The old STS comes to mind, with it's V8....Nissan has now encountered that problem with the 3.5L Maxima and Altima as well. The Accord and Camry are also beginning to push the limits of FWD with the outputs from current V6s.
SAAB had the same problem. The Viggen proved that you can't stuff too much power into a FWD car. If SAAB had made it AWD, it could have been an upmarket WRX. As it happened it was nothing more than an interesting footnote.
The SRX is available in AWD and with the 2.8T, it is standard.
I am not 100% sure if the XTS will come in FWD trim. It may be like the A8 where it is AWD only. But, still I don't like the fact they had the perfect RWD platform in Zeta and can still be a money cow( Zeta is an expensive platform) and basically coward out with CAFE and their financial issue and went with Super Epsilon II......
GM did announce they will still build it as the wind down would take 5 years.
As much as I am sad to see brands go, the bankruptcy filing and brand closure/sell off is one of the best things to happen for GM...
GM used to consist of... just in the USA.. get ready for this....
-- the 4 remaining --
Chevrolet
Buick
Cadillac
GMC
-- the lost 8 brands --
Pontiac
Saturn
Oldsmobile
Suzuki
Isuzu
Hummer
Subaru
Saab
Did I miss any? Now dont forget Holden, Vauxhaul & Opel.
This massive clean up means instead of spreading a little bit of money through out lots of brands, they focus all their money on just a few and can then make these brands so much stronger, get better efficencies from suppliers as they will use more of the same parts, the consumer sees a more logical progression, and in general their life just got a whole lot simpler.